The Current - How to make more sustainable fashion choices

Episode Date: December 20, 2024

The fashion industry is one of the world’s biggest polluters, with millions of tonnes of textiles ending up in landfills every year. We talk to people about how to change that, from a simple “closet audit” at home, to making retailers responsible for the entire life cycle of their garments.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. I did a Christmas sheen haul. There's way too much to show you in one video so you're going to have to come back for part two, three, and four. Guys, I have a massive garage haul. I low-key forget what I even bought. Let's get it open here.

I love getting packages in the mail. It's actually my favorite thing in the entire world. Clothing hauls have become extremely popular on TikTok, and it's not called a haul for nothing. Fast fashion makes acquiring hordes of new items not only affordable, but very, very easy with just the click of a button. It also makes fashion the third biggest polluting industry in the world with an estimated 92 million tons

of textiles ending up in landfills every year. My next guest has another much smaller number to share with you. That number is five. That is how many new articles of clothing Tiffany Dark believes we should buy in a year. Tiffany is a top fashion editor in the UK and the author of What to Wear and Why, Your Guilt-Free Guide to Sustainable Fashion. She's in our London studio. Tiffany, hi. Hi, Matt. Tell me about, I mean, I say top fashion editor,

tell me about the life you were leading as a fashion editor. You were working for Harrods at the time, right? Yes. And previously to that, I was a fashion editor of a big national magazine as well. And I was very much part of the problem. So a lot of this was through the noughties when the sort of rise of the democratic version of fashion, if you like, happened. In other words, all our high street stores kind of exploded with items that looked like they were from the catwalk,

but that you could get at really affordable prices. And so fashion became this kind of all-you-can-eat buffet of kind of items that you could just pop in and get something new for Friday night. Or if you needed an outfit for a party on Saturday, then you could get something new for that as well you could follow all of the all of the new trends and and kind of snap up the new collections and it was really exciting time because it just opened up fashion to everybody fashion you know previously was something that in the words of the great Vogue

editor Diana Vreeland you could never be too rich and never be too thin. And suddenly, everyone could have it. And as a fashion editor, I was like, chocks away, right, let's do it. How much of this stuff can we get on our pages? And I ran all of those features, which everyone will be very familiar with, about the 27 shoes for spring and six skirts you need to buy now. But I didn't in any of that ask the question about where my clothes came from. So when did you realize, as you say, that you were part of the problem? Was there a moment

that kind of the light bulb went on? Yeah, there was a very particular day in COVID lockdown, as there were very, for lots of people across the world and at that point I was editor in chief of Harrods which is a big luxury store in London it's a kind of temple to consumerism if you like and previous to lockdown my job had been about you know doing all of the magazines and the in-store video and the live tv and all of that kind of thing and then in lockdown Harrods realized that its very top tier of customers were still shopping. They were basically lazing around on their private yachts in the Caribbean with nothing much to do but scroll and shop.

So if they could just get pictures, WhatsApp pictures of Louis Vuitton handbags and so forth to those customers, they could just click to buy. So that very quickly became my job. that very quickly became my job. And there was one day when I was cycling back through lockdown London, having let myself into the back of this sort of dark and eerie store and snapped pictures of high value luxury goods and sent them off to princesses. And I got home and in the UK, it was clap for carers night. So every Thursday, we would go out onto our doorsteps and bang our saucepans with wooden spoons with our kids. And that was a pretty weird day. And I suddenly realized that none of that made sense anymore. And so out of that comes the rule of five. What is that?

Well, this was a climate report that came out of the Berlin Hot or Cool Institute. And they took a look at the fashion industry, which, as you mentioned, is the third most polluting on the planet. And lots of the brands in the fashion industry have said, don't worry, we're going to hit our 1.5 warming targets by 2030, which basically means that all of their supply chains will add up to only 1.5 degrees of temperature impact above pre-industrial levels by 2030. And this is what all the scientists say we have to stick to. If we go beyond that, then there's irrevocable change. But the Institute looked at the promises that all of these brands were making

and crunched the numbers and discovered that actually nothing that they were doing was going to get them anywhere near that because of our insane overproduction and overconsumption. So you might produce something quite sustainably, but if you're producing 80 million items of that, then obviously it's not going to be very sustainable. So they worked out that in the UK, the US, and probably Canada as well, we could only afford to buy five new items of clothing a year if we wanted to hit that 1.5 2030 warming target. How difficult? Do you live by that philosophy now? I have done, yes.

And so as somebody who, I mean, you just described where you came from, how difficult is it to go from big to very, very small? It's very difficult. I'm really not going to lie. It was really, really hard. But the most difficult part of it is tuning out the noise. Because what we don't realize is that we are marketed to all the time, that consumption has become the de facto reflex option for everything that we feel. Can I ask you about that? I mean, we heard those TikTok clips. I had a conversation earlier this week with Jonathan Haidt. He wrote this book, The Anxious Generation, which is about how it's not just kids, but we're all on our phones and we are steered by the algorithm in many ways. And if you hear those clips, I mean, people make a lot of money as an influencer saying, I just got this haul, hoping that you will do the same kind of thing.

What kind of influence does that have on us? I think it's very sort of subliminally manipulating our kind of hormone responses. So there's an excitement to it. And then there's a sort of element of, oh, my God, can you believe that they just did that? They opened the door and it's piled high with boxes. And so there's a sort of dopamine drip that's going on. And I think what Jonathan would say is that the way the algorithm is engineered is so that you constantly are seeking that dopamine hit. And marketing companies are doing exactly the same when it comes to consumption. It's the dopamine is the hit that we are all looking for

in response to whether that we feel sad or whether we feel like celebrating or whether we want to mark an occasion or, you know, whether we want to comfort ourself or treat ourselves. We know we can get that dopamine hit from clicking on something and from buying something. And it has been ingrained into us over about 100 years of the consumption age to the point now that we are just buying way too much stuff. There's also that idea of what is called retail therapy, where people, I mean, it's gloomy now. The weather's been getting more intense for a lot of people. The news is not particularly pleasant as well. And a lot of people will go out and shop if they can

because they feel that it helps them. Comfort shopping. Yeah, it's a lot of fun as well. And if you just are only getting five things, some people might think that you take away some of that joy. Ah, well, let me tell you how I found my alternative joy. Oh, okay. So there are different ways of approaching fashion. So you can look at all the stuff that is already in your wardrobe and do something with it. And we really, I'm sure men are much

better at this than women, but women only wear about 30% of their wardrobe, 20 to 30%. Lots of it goes unworn. So if you pull out of all that stuff that's unworn and have a look at it, some of it won't fit you anymore. Some of it just isn't appropriate anymore. It doesn't feel right. But all you have to do is find an amazing seamstress and work on re-engineering it and kind of adapting it and making it into something new. And that is actually a hugely rewarding and creative process. There's also lots of stuff in our wardrobes that we don't wear because I don't know, like the trouser hems are too long. So you don't wear those trousers. So if you just took them up, you'd have a whole new pair of trousers without even buying anything. And then there's lots of great fun stuff you could

do with swapping parties, borrowing off your friends. Renting is a really good option as well. There's lots of different ways that you can get hold of new clothes without actually buying anything new. I mean, this is a practical thing, but a lot of it is also philosophical, right? In terms of changing, it's not just changing the algorithm, it's changing how the brain is wired. That's absolutely right. And I think actually that that is what brings you a great moment of clarity and joy when you swap that philosophical approach. So actually, you know, buying those five items of clothing is now a really fun thing for me because I research them massively beforehand. I spend a long time choosing. I'm very careful that where I buy those clothes

from, it's good sourcing and a good supply chain. And so the joy that I get when I get that item is beyond anything that I had before. And my value relationship with that item of clothing is much, much stronger. But also I've now recognized when I am being manipulated. And so when I am resorting to shopping for a reason that isn't really because I need it or I want it. And I think living with less actually makes you a little bit freer and a little bit lighter in the world. And it also, let me tell you, makes you a little bit richer as well. What would the Tiffany Dark of the fashion magazines and of Harrods think of the Tiffany Dark now? Well, I think that, I mean, I am still buying really beautiful clothes and I'm actually

spending more money on fewer things. So actually, I can afford better things now. But there's more meaning to them. There's way more meaning to them. Yeah. And I think she would respect her, I would hope. But it's hard in the world that we live in, right? I mean, this is how we're steered in some ways. Even if you're struggling, you're still being told that you need to have more. Yes. And the thing is, if you haven't got much money, then actually the only thing you can do is look at all of those cheap clothes. And the way those cheap brands market themselves at you is deliberately to make you want more and more and more and of course if it's cheap it's probably not going to be very well made so it's actually

not going to last you a very long time so it's going to wear out and then you're going to have to buy something else to replace it so it you know you're in this terrible loop that you really need to break out of and and there are sort of there are things you can do, like you can turn off the ads on your social media streams. There are ways to get around it, but they don't make it easy for you. Tiffany, really glad to talk to you about this. Thank you very much. Thank you. Tiffany Dark is an author and fashion editor. Her latest book is called What to Wear and Why Your Guilt-Free Guide to Sustainable Fashion. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news.

So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

If you do end up doing that closet audit that Tiffany was talking about, peering in the closet and figuring out what's there and what you need and what you don't need, in this country, you're probably going to find a parka, maybe another one, maybe some ski pants hanging in the wardrobe. Maybe they have a bit of a broken zipper or a tear, Velcro doesn't stick anymore. That's not ideal when it gets really cold out. But that is where my next guest comes in. Russell McPherson is founder of Gear Restore in Calgary. The company also has two US locations, specializes in repairing and reviving outdoor gear with the goal of making it last longer and keeping it out of the landfill. Russell, hello. Good morning. Tell us what you do

at the Gear Restore. What is it that you're involved in? The primary line of business is repairing technical outerwear. So think about Gore-Tex clothing, tents, backpacks, sleeping bags, that kind of thing. Most of the work that we do is under warranty for the brands. So Arcteryx, Canada Goose, Patagonia. And how old, I mean, in terms of the stuff that's coming in, how old are the items that you're repairing? It varies. So every brand has their own warranty policy. Some brands might be one, two, three years. Other brands, such as Patagonia, are lifetime. We recently did a piece for Canadian Tire that came in and it was about 40 years old. 40 years old?

Yes. And so that's really interesting in part because the sense perhaps from some people is that if something breaks, it can't be repaired. But if something's that old, clearly you were able to stitch back together. Tell me a little bit about how you think about what, what the life cycle and the lifespan of these items is. Well, to me, quality is quality and make no mistake about it. When you are paying good money for an outdoor garment,

part of what you're paying for is the warranty repair. The brand will have calculated that a certain number are going to come back for repair under warranty. If you buy quality, there's an expectation that the brand is probably going to take care of you. But also when you buy quality, you're not just buying an extended warranty, you're buying gear that is going to last longer. You know, the old saying, you get what you pay for is very true. Part of this, as I said, is keeping this gear out of the landfill. If the people have something that they don't need anymore, but they understand there's still life in it, can you make use of it? We can to a limited extent right now. We have a program that we call EO1L. So most of the

industry refers to gear as end of life. We refer to it as end of first life. So a wash and a repair and whatever it needs, and then they'll put it back on the market for resale. That's what we call re-commerce. There's a first life, a second life, a third life, and a fourth life. If we can give it a second life through re-commerce, having a second owner for that garment, that's the first choice. Second choice would be to, say, make a backpack or a wallet or a fanny pack or something like that out of gear that is no longer functional and can't be made functional. Sometimes you can take two old jackets and make it into one old jacket.

The challenge with that is North American labor rates. You know, if it takes us two hours to put together a backpack at our shop rate and we have to sell that off to somebody who then wants to put it on a retail store shelf, the economics are challenging for sure. That kind of thing is what we would refer to as upcycling. Downcycling is what we're having a more serious look at right now. And what's that specifically? That would be something along the lines of shredding up the old garment and repurposing it. There's a company out of New Jersey that we've been in conversation with and they're taking old neoprene wetsuits and things like that and turning them into flip-flops and yoga mats and things like that. And we'd send it off to this company,

they'd make it into something else and then we would send it all over to the brand and they can either try and resell it or they can use it for giveaways at management conferences or that kind of thing. And again, the whole goal is to keep this stuff out of the dump. 100%. And that is not just something that we think is something we should be doing. It's something that government is telling us that we must do. There's legislation in Europe right now that is preventing incineration and landfilling, and that legislation is coming to North America, no question about it. Just personally for you, I mean, as you said, it's something that you have to do, but why do you want to do this? How did you end up doing this sort of work? It's a long story. I'll try and keep it short, but I'm more of a business person. And so I guess you could say

I'm an accidental environmentalist, but the more I've been doing in in this space the more I be I'm becoming a purposeful environmentalist and I guess what it really boils down to is I just don't like waste I don't like tossing stuff out that's not done its time my grandfather did have a profound influence upon me he graduated from university right before the Great Depression, and so he spent 10 pretty tough years trying to do what he could to keep the family afloat. So he became a classic saver, you know, pieces of twine, 40-watt light bulbs, all these kinds of things. And I observed a lot of that when I was growing up and when we went over to visit with him. So I think that did have a deep influence on me. He'd be proud of what you're doing now. I think he would be. Russell, thank you very much

for this. My pleasure. Take care. Russell McPherson is the founder of the Gear Restore, has locations in Calgary, Denver, and Philadelphia. Some companies have made inroads on extending the life of what we wear. What to do with the clothing when it reaches the end of its lifespan, though, is still a pretty thorny issue, especially with the proliferation of what's known as fast fashion. The European Union recently introduced regulations designed to make clothing and textile companies responsible for their entire life cycle of their products. It's called Extended Producer Responsibility, or EPR. Jordan Gerling is head of EPR with the Waste and Resources Action Program. It's a global non-governmental organization based in the UK. He is near Bath in the United Kingdom.

Jordan, hello to you. Hello, good morning. Thank you for having me. This is about addressing a problem. How big of a problem is textile waste? Textile waste is a pretty huge problem. Textiles have the fourth biggest impact on the environment and climate in Europe alone. So it's a pretty huge problem. Textiles have the fourth biggest impact on the environment and climate in Europe alone. So it's a pretty huge problem. And so this is about, as I said, making sure that the people

who create those products are responsible for it. What does that mean that you're responsible for the entire life cycle of an article of clothing? So in a traditional sales transaction, i.e. where a business sells a product to a citizen like me or you, usually the legal responsibility of the seller of that product immediately stops once the citizen owns the product. With EPR, the seller of the product have the extended responsibility to not only ensure that the product is designed, manufactured and sold in a safe and sustainable way, but they also have the responsibility to contribute and finance the environmental sustainable collection and management of that product once it reaches its end of life.

How does that work in practice? I mean, if I go into a store and buy something, what happens then what happens is the company that's selling it to you has has paid a nominal epr fee um of around 10 cents per garment or something like that that fee is paid to a central body usually called a producer responsibility organization and then that central organization amalgamates all the fees and they disseminate to collection and recycling and treatment networks throughout the country to help fund collection and recycling once your product eventually reaches its end of life. And so there would be some sort of depot where when I'm done with the shirt that I bought, I take it to that location and drop it off? Yes, a big part of extended producer responsibility systems is making sure

that there's adequate collection networks for consumers. So you might have collection banks in supermarket, you might have in-store take-back obligations. So you could even take the garment back to the shop where you bought it. Some countries, municipalities even have curbside collection in the same way that you would deposit your trash and a van would come along and collect it. Some places have that for textiles and you can deposit textiles outside your door to make it really convenient for you. What happens once it's picked up or once it's dropped off? It would go to a sorting facility to assess its quality. In an ideal world, the product would be suitable for reuse.

So it could be reused and resold. If it transpires that the product is quite a low quality, it's not actually suitable for reuse, then it would be channeled through some sort of recycling facility. This has been in place for a while in France. How has it worked there? Has it been successful? France has had extended producer responsibility for textiles since 2008, has been successful in some regards. The volumes and quantities of used textiles being collected has increased quite dramatically. So that's great to see. There are some reports that actually a lot of the textiles that are being collected by that system are actually being exported to countries in the

global south that don't necessarily have the waste management infrastructure to handle all of those products. So there's some good bits and some bad bits. What about the industry itself? I mean, you can imagine the industry is not particularly keen on being responsible for the item of clothing after point of sale. How much pushback is there from that clothing industry? I wouldn't say that the clothing industry is against helping to finance the end-of-life management of the products that they're selling. Certainly there's some companies in the industry that don't really want to pay an extra fee, but there are a lot of companies out there which are very sustainably minded and really want and advocate

for a policy like this. But there are companies who don't and those companies are enormously successful perhaps selling clothing made in China shipping it all over the world for almost next to nothing and the sense is that those companies I mean that's not even fast fashion it's lightning fast fashion right how do you go about incentivizing those companies? So extended producer responsibility policies can be designed in a way which discourages those sorts of business practices. So fees that companies pay for each product that they sell, they can be heightened or penalty fees added on top of that if the products are low in durability or quality

to discourage that type of product. You were just in Banff, Alberta at a recycling industry conference. What is your sense as to whether policies like this could come to this country anytime soon? I think policies like this could come to Canada very soon. We've seen the policy for EPR already emerge in North America in terms of California. EPR on a provincial level in Canada is for other types of waste streams like packaging, for example. And I see no reason why EPR systems for textiles could be equally as successful in Canada. Just finally, part of this is, I mean, we were saying it's also about us as the consumer, right? Do we need a mindset change in terms of how we think about the lifespan of the items that we buy? Consumers play a really important role.

And part of EPR systems is to deliver consumer awareness campaigns so that consumers really understand what the negative impacts are of textiles disposed of incorrectly. If consumers don't know about that, then they're less likely to engage in these collection systems. It's a big part of what RAP is involved in. Yes, we're advocating for this type of policy, but we're also advocating for circular living. Consumers and citizens play a really important role, and it's important that we don't underestimate that. Jordan, thanks for this. Thank you. Jordan Gerling is the head of the Extended Producer Responsibility Program for Waste

Resources Action Program, which is a global non-governmental organization that is based in the United Kingdom.