The Current - Iranian playwright Ava Alavi on her fears for her country

Episode Date: March 26, 2026

Playwright Ava Alavi moved from Iran to Canada shortly before Mahsa Amini was arrested and beaten for allegedly violating Iran's headscarf law. Amini's death and the movement that followed inspired Alavi's new play, "Sound," which premiered at Ottawa's Undercurrents Festival in early February. Alavi shares how creating geopolitical theatre helps her deal with what's happening back home.

If you experienced harm while admitted to a federal Indian hospital between 1936 and 1981, you might be eligible for compensation. The claims period is now open and free supports are available to help you submit your claim. Learn more at www.IH.settlement.ca. Or call 1-888-592-9101. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. As a girl, I was born in a country where my very existence could be considered an act of rebellion.

Ava Alavi's new play is a deeply personal one. The Iranian playwright moved to Canada shortly before the death of Masa Aminni. In 2022, Aminni was arrested and beaten for allegedly violating Iran's headscarf law. The protest movement that grew out of her death was. called the Woman Life Freedom Movement. And that movement inspired Ava's play. I became a part of that war without choosing it. And after fighting that war, you stopped fearing the things that used to scare you.

And once fear loses its meaning, everything else begins to shift with it. We redefine war. We redefine country. We redefine mother. We redefine enemy. We redefine woman. We redefine freedom. We redefine Ava.

That play is called Sound. It premiered at Ottawa's Undercurrents festival in early February, less than three weeks before Israel and the United States launched airstrikes on Iran killing that country's supreme leader. Ava Alavi is in our Ottawa studio. Good morning.

Good morning. There's a lot going on in the world right now. And this is a simple question, but it can also be a loaded question. How are you doing? That is a very complex question. I think that I can answer maybe not only on behalf of myself, but I can give more of a collective answer as to how Iranians are probably doing these days.

Obviously, we're all very worried for our loved ones back at home. We're worried about what the next steps are. And at the same time, they're mixed feelings because we're also relieved that some of the leaders are gone now. There's hope that maybe there would be a regime change, but at the same time, there's anger because it's a war. We don't want a war. Very, very complex feelings. That's the we.

What about the you? How is Ava doing? That's a very good question. Well, the truth is, I feel like so much has happened the past couple of decades back to back that I've kind of had to let go of being concerned only for myself. There's a bit of a guilt when, you know, I'm in a safe space here. and people back at home are going through so much still. So it's a bit difficult to just answer for myself right now. That's fair.

One of the things that's going on is this play, which has been so warmly received. That must be a joy for you. Definitely, because the personal goal for me with writing this play was basically raising as much awareness as possible for people who are non-Iranians to better understand what we have gone through on a more personal level. Because usually when people are that distant physically from a country, emotionally, they feel like the issues are also that distant. Whereas I think that these are universal issues that we're dealing with, even if it's not happening in our own country. Tell me more about what you wanted to do with the play. As I mentioned, you started writing it after you arrived here in Canada, a week after you arrived in Canada? Yes, yes.

And that is just shortly after the woman life freedom movement erupts in Iran. So when I reached Canada a week after, Masa Amini went into a coma, and a couple of days after that, she was, she passed away. Why did you, and what did you want to explore in the form of a play coming out of that movement? I remember how angry I was. I even wanted to go back at home. My parents stopped me because there was a very collective need to just be in the streets and shout. what we wanted to say. And I was stuck back here. You wanted to go home and your parents said that if you went back, you'd be arrested at the airport.

Yes, yes. And, well, actually, that conversation was a bit further after. But my parents were just worried about my safety going back in terms of because they knew I would go to protest. And they didn't want to risk having me killed. But the only thing I could do over here was to write about the stories that I was hearing about people who were being murdered. We were hearing very dramatic stories about children, old people, and each story that I wanted to write about, it felt very incomplete because there was so much more. So I started digging a little bit deeper within myself, and I started wondering, why am I so angry? Why is this movement so important to me personally? And I had to trace it back because there were so many things happening over the past couple of decades. It was layer after layer.

It wasn't just one thing. And I kept going back and back, and I reached my mother. generation and I reached a previous revolution in Iran and I realized that these issues have been happening for generations and that's what has led us to this moment right here. How would you describe the story that you're telling in the play? A bridge of individual identity and the collective identity of Iranian women and how those two identities basically merge and how we are trying to survive and we are trying to continue our existence. That existence, as we heard at the very beginning of the conversation, there's that quotation, your existence as a girl is an act of rebellion. What does that mean?

Being raised in a country like Iran, it seems as if the government is continuously trying to erase you from society. We can't sing. We can't speak in specific spaces. They cover you up. It's every little thing. And I remember hearing this one quote from a woman back from the Revolution days. Once you tell me what to wear, you're telling me what to think. The government has been trying to control how women think. And once you do that, you're telling us how to exist. And you're taking away our individual identity. You're taking away our individual existence.

You mentioned that in exploring some of those themes, you went back to your mother's generation, for example, How did your mom inspire the story that you tell in this plate? Well, there are so many pictures from the Revolution Days, and there was a very big protest on the March 8th of the year after the revolution in 1980, where women went to the streets that year because they wanted to protest equal rights, and they wanted to protest mandatory hijab. And my mother was in that protest, and one of the pictures that today is very famous from those days,

is the picture that my mom is in. She's in the photo. Yes, she's in the photo. And she's the only person in a big crowd looking at the camera in that moment. And I remember I saw this picture years ago. But when I started writing the play and when I went back to my mom's experiences, that's where it clicked for me, how we are repeating the same pattern. And my mom, when I look at her and her generation, they have been through so much.

And now they're watching their daughters go through the same process. And the only voices that are being muted here, again, it's the voices of women. Because everybody's telling us, no, there's a bigger picture. If there's a war, first we have to fix that, and then we'll talk about your rights. If people are dying, first let's fix that. And then we'll talk about where you stand as women. And that's just being repeated over and over again. What does it like for you to see that photo of her out on the streets?

That's a wild thing to be part of. I mean, given the mood in the country at the time, it's a bold, risky, dangerous, but very inspiring thing, presumably, as well to see your mom out there. Yes, well, I think that growing up, knowing that that's where my mom stood. Obviously, I've always been very proud of that picture because it represents what my mom has always stood up for. And I think that has shaped a huge part of who I am as a woman as well. because it wasn't just that one photo from those days that my mom was, you know, fighting for women's rights. It's that growing up when I was 15, the Green Movement started. And my mom, I watched my mom participate in those protests as well.

It's an ongoing fight. And then the Woman Life Freedom Movement started. And I was here in Canada, but my mom was still back in Iran. And she still went to the streets. She took off her scarf. So the fight continues for her generation as well. And it's just I am proud of her. I'm inspired by her, and at the same time, I'm very sad for her and for her generation.

She sounds like a real force. Well, I think so. If someone in your family experienced harm while admitted to a federal Indian hospital and passed away on or after January 25, 2016, you may be able to submit a claim as an estate representative or heir. Find out more at www.I.H.settlement.ca. Or call 1-88-592-9101. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson and I host the Daily News Podcast, Front Burner.

And lately, I'll see a story about, I don't know, political corruption or something and think, during a normal time, we'd be talking about this for weeks. But then it's almost immediately overwhelmed. by something else. On Front Burner, we are trying to pull lots of story threads together so that you don't lose the plot. So you can learn

how all these threads fit together. Follow Front Burner wherever you get your podcasts. The play is called sound. And sound, that's your name, right? Yes. Alva in first see means sound. And the play has, what,

three different kind of versions of you in it. Can you explain that? Yes. Yes. Yes, the play has three characters. All characters are named Ava. And at the beginning of the play, I myself explained it to the audience that these are our actors, but they will be playing me. So we'll refer to them as Ava.

And each Ava is representing a different side of me or in other senses in Iranian woman. One of them is played by myself, which is the more complete version of the character. One character is played by a Canadian actor who represents the side of me in Canada who is trying to communicate and connect with non-Iranians. And the third character is played by an Iranian woman who is in Iran video calling us live through the play. And she represents that side of me that is still stuck in Iran. What is the link between all, I mean, they're all you, but they're different. What is the link between all of those characters? I would say what links these characters is their mutual questions and goals of trying to continue to exist, trying to keep that voice, trying to move forward regardless of all the obstacles.

And it opens with that character in Iran, right? You're on stage trying to reach what, your best friend in Iran? Yes. The play starts with me trying to kind of. with my friend in Iran who will be playing my character. And in the original scripts, the video call is supposed to happen. But at the time when we were doing the show in Undercurrence, there was an internet blackout in Iran, as there is one now.

And we were unable to connect with her. And I didn't even know if she was arrested, if she was okay, if she was alive. Unfortunately, we weren't able to connect with her, and we had to use a recording of another voice. Have you heard from her since then? Not directly, unfortunately, because, well, first of all, the internets are down. But also, last I heard, she was arrested during January, during the protests during January. And unfortunately, once the war started, all connections with political prisoners have been cut off.

So families and loved ones aren't able to hear from their families in prison. So we don't know. We don't know if she's okay. We don't know. We're not even sure where she is because sometimes they're transfer prisoners. Sometimes there are unexpected executions and illegal executions that happen. And families are informed about it afterwards. So we genuinely don't know anything.

That's really hard. Yes. It's hard. It's scary. And it's not just one case or two. It's so many cases that's like this. And it's scary. What about your family?

You mentioned they're still in Iran. Can you or have you been able to speak with them since the war began? Yes, I have been able to talk to them a couple of times. Unfortunately, as a diaspora, we can't call them. Sometimes people from Iran are able to call us through direct landlines for a couple of minutes before the connection cuts off. So I have been able to talk to them very briefly a couple of times. The last time I heard from them was actually on the day of our New Year's this past Friday. And it was just for a couple of minutes for them to let me know that they're still okay.

How are you thinking about this? You talked a bit before about even during the women life freedom protests that you had thought about should you go back, could you go back, would you want to be there on the streets? How are you thinking about being here now while this is unfolding there? That's a very complicated question because a part of me does still want to be in Iran. Even with the war, even with everything that is happening, realistically, I can't go back because after the Roman Life Freedom Movement started, I created a video. It kind of went viral.

And my parents got a call from the government saying that, basically, if I go back, I will be arrested at the airport. So I know that I can't go back. But if I did have the option, I would have chosen to be with my family, regardless of the war. Even with the danger. Even with the danger. It's my family.

It's my home. It's my country. Regardless of the regime, Iran is my home. And I would choose to be there with my family, yes. How does creating art help you deal with that? Art can be a number of different things. And it can be, you know, the mirror. It can be the hammer that smashes the mirror.

It can be a way for you to kind of look at bigger issues and kind of translate them to a broader audience. But it's also really personal, right? Yes. So how does making art and theater help you deal with all of that? Well, there's always the cathartic aspect of creation in general for the artist that we work through the tough days and the tough situations through the form of whatever form we're creating and through our art. But for me, this is a very personal approach, but I believe that it's our obligation as artists to reflect what is happening around us and to reflect. our personal experiences.

Because once we start doing that, that's when the conversation starts. And that's when others understand that they're not alone in it. So for me, going through all of this, I felt that my creations, my art, should reflect what is happening over there. And it should be a vessel for people on the other side of the world to understand what's happening there. And for it to be a reminder for them that it could happen. here as well. It's not that distant. Back in 79, people couldn't have guessed that they would be here less than 50 years later. And on this big scale of history, 50 years is nothing. And for things to change that quickly, it could happen here too. So for me, my art, I would like to think that it's a way

to just remind people and to create a bit of awareness around the situation. You know, it's interesting. Over the course of this war, there's been a lot of talk of what do people in Iran want in this moment? And everybody, I mean, Iran is not one thing. There are a lot of different people with a lot of different opinions. For you, what do you want for Iran? Oh, that's a very, very, very complicated question. As you said, Iran has a population of over 90 million people. So obviously, a lot of people have very different perspectives. to what the right thing for Iran is in this critical moment. What about for you? I believe that we don't have any good options right now. I'm not going to lie. I think that Iranians, unfortunately, are stuck between two very difficult situations.

Either the war stops right now and the regime remains, less people die through the war. But the Iranians are left with an even angrier regime, which, will take that anger out on the people and the world will stay silent about it again. Or the alternative is that the war continues for however long and more people die and the leaders of the regime might die, might run away, and then we're stuck with whatever Israel and U.S. chooses for us, which again is a terrible, terrible option in my opinion. So I believe that And for the very first time in the 30 years that at least I've experienced interactions with Iran, I'm hopeless and I don't have an answer.

You're hopeless. I am hopeless in that sense because realistically, I can't find an option that works. The only thing that does give me hope is that through the past year, because we had the war during June and now this war, one thing that was a new discovery for me about the people of Iran. was that I grew up hearing about the Iranian culture, the Persian culture. And it's something that Iranians have always been very proud of. And we try to explain it through our art, our culinary art, our tapestry art, all of it. But to me, I realized that the culture that we speak of, the culture that has thousands of years behind it, I think it's in our resilience.

and in the way that we carry ourselves through tough times. Because I watched so many people lose their children and still show that act of resilience through dancing at fear and rules instead of mourning, just so that they show that regime that we're not giving up. So to me, that is a culture that can't be wiped out. That is a culture that can't just be colonized at this point because that culture has been happening for so long that even with an invasion, it can't be wiped out.

Even with this regime, it can't be wiped out. So that does give me hope that in that sense, we will remain. But on a shorter term, I am currently hopeless because I can't see a good option. All I know is that I hope the war does stop because I can't see any. scenario in which a war can lead to better days. And that's a very personal opinion, which I know a lot of Iranians would be very unhappy about. But I don't think anything good is going to come out of the war. It's a really complicated situation. And that's a really honest answer. So I appreciate that. But I also, you're a big part of that culture that is reflective of the resilience and the

persistence of the people, and you should be really proud of that. It's a real pleasure to talk to you. I hope, I mean, this play, the timeliness of it could not be more acute. And so I hope people across the country have the opportunity to see it. In the meantime, Ava, thank you very much for talking to us. Thank you so much for having me. Ava Alavi is an Iranian playwright. Her new play, Sound, premiered at Ottawa's Undercurrents Festival in February. She was in our Ottawa studio. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.