The Current - Is Mark Carney the man to stand up for Canada?

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

Mark Carney won the race to become Liberal Party leader by a landslide, and will likely replace Justin Trudeau as prime minister in the coming days. We talk to partisan strategists and commentators about what lies ahead for both Carney and Canadians, from Trump’s tariffs to an imminent election. 

What does a mummified Egyptian child, the Parthenon marbles of Greece and an Irish giant all have in common? They are all stuff the British stole. Maybe. Join me, Mark Fennell, as I travel around the globe uncovering the shocking stories of how some, let's call them ill-gotten, artifacts made it to faraway institutions. Spoiler, it was probably the British. Don't miss a brand new season of Stuff the British Style. Watch it free on CBC Gem. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast.

Well, after a short leadership race carried out amidst a trade war and with parliament prorogued, we now know who will lead the Liberal Party into the next federal election. I pledge to you and to all Canadians that I will work day and night with one purpose, which is to build a stronger Canada for everyone. With over 85% of the vote, Mark Carney is the new Liberal Party leader and Prime Minister designate of Canada. He will become Canada's next Prime Minister after the Governor General swears him in in the coming days. And after he leaves that visit from Rideau Hall, he will walk straight into a tumultuous trade war with our country's closest ally. We didn't ask for this fight.

We didn't ask for this fight. The Canadians are always ready when someone else drops the gloves. So the Americans, they should make no mistake, in trade as in hockey, Canada will win. Joining me now to discuss the choice the Liberals have made and the challenges ahead and what it means for you is Susan Smith, Liberal Commentator, co-founder and principal of Blue Sky Strategy Group. Melanie Richet is an NDP commentator with Earnscliffe Strategies.

They're both with us from Ottawa. And Chad Rogers is a conservative strategist with Crestview Strategy. He's in Calgary this morning. Good morning to you all. Good morning, Matt. Susan, a landslide victory, 85% of the vote support from right across the country.

What do you make of the choice that the Liberals made and the size of that win? Well, it's a really significant win. I think Liberals have made a good choice and I think they've made the right choice. And I think they've made a choice that Canadians are going to feel very comfortable with. I was listening to your intro there and I feel like Canadians, if they're just learning the news this morning, are going to wake up with a bit of a glimmer of hope instead of a cloud of doom over their heads that we've been living with since Mr. Trump got elected and started this tariff war. Mark Carney brings experience to the table.

He brings domestic experience. He brings global experience. He brings financial experience. He brings experience writing a budget as a former public servant. And I think he's got the calm, the demeanor, the competence, and will bring the confidence back to Canada when it comes to dealing with Trump. Chad, I am old enough to remember two months ago when on this program, you called Mark Carney an unelectable snob. It would appear that the Liberal Party faithful disagrees with you. Look, congratulations to Mr.

Carney and everyone who participated in the leadership process under difficult circumstances. Democracy is an important thing. Parties are a use it or lose it proposition. But Mark Carney remains an unelectable guy who used to decide what rate mortgages should be. Contrary to Susan's point, he's never written a

budget in his entire life, either for a business or for Canada's government. He was something called a central banker, something that my mom doesn't know what it means. And I congratulate him on soon to be the most interesting bar trivia question in Canadian history, who was the person who was never elected to anything, who served as prime minister for the shortest number of days. Goodness. All right. We'll come back to some of the things you've raised. Melanie, from your

perspective, what do you make of the Liberals choosing Mark Carney in this moment and choosing him, as I mentioned, with an overwhelming amount of support. Well, if I was a liberal member and I was looking at the polling in the last few weeks, I think my vote or my choice would probably be clear too, so I'm not super surprised. In terms of picking a winner. In terms of picking a winner, in terms of somebody who, for the last however many months or years, we've had Pierre Poryev, who seems unattainable and unreachable by the Liberals.

So if you want somebody who can give him a run for his money, that seemed to be clear with Mark Carney. So you know, if I was a Liberal member, which I'm not, that would make a lot of sense to me. I think now the real question is, was it real? Now this is, he's actually going to be Prime Minister, we're actually going to hear what his ideas are. So looking to see what he's going to be doing minister We're actually going to hear what his ideas are So looking to see what he's going to be doing in these next you know either few days or few weeks whatever that looks like

Until we're in an actual election To see if that actually translate if those were real numbers or you know if that was just the idea Because now we it's more than just an idea It's real so seeing what that looks like and is what I'd be paying attention to Susan when we convened the three of you a couple of months ago, the talk was that there were questions as to whether the furniture would be safe for the Liberal Party, whether the party itself would survive this. You were at the event in Ottawa on the weekend and yesterday obviously. What was the mood?

I think there's new furniture in the room now. It's pretty exciting. The mood was very exciting, very upbeat. Wide age range of people, young people, middle-aged people like me, I'll confess to being that, seniors, all kinds of folks who have the energy and the vitality I think that the Liberal Party needed and was lacking for a while to get out the vote, muster and muscle the troops to do what needs to be done, which is a campaign. And I think that's what we're gonna be in very quickly. When we got together at the beginning of January, liberals were way down in the polls.

And I think I talked about the three worst things that could happen at Pierre Poliev, and that was Justin Trudeau stepping down, Donald Trump stepping up, and Mark Carney winning the race, and the leadership race, and that's exactly what's happened. And Canadians, I think, are now pivoting to who's best to stand up for Canada against Trump, and it's not going to be so much a partisan thing. I don't think it's going to be so much a liberal or a conservative thing. I've been hearing from conservatives across the country

who've said, not only did I, you know, I support Carney, Susan, but I signed up to vote for Carney. And I think that enthusiasm and the landslide in the leadership will translate in the polls. Where there was a bit of apathy about Mr. Trudeau on the outgoing part, Canadians are going to be stepping up and they'll show up to the ballot box when the election happens. Just briefly, as a liberal, do you spare a thought for Christy Freeland? The cliché is, you know, she who wields the knife will never wear the crown. She's the reason in many ways that this has happened and yet it wasn't even close. No, it wasn't close at all. I actually should first spare the thought for Justin Trudeau to thank him for the good,

hard work that he did. I think he left, he stood up for us when he needed to and when we needed him during the pandemic and he's gone out in a good way standing up and fighting Trump. Ms. Freeland made a bold decision in December. She triggered something that didn't quite have the outcome she wanted, but I heard her take the high road from a party unity perspective. I heard all of the candidates, Karina Gould and Frank Baylis, take the high road. And you have a very united party.

When you have a resounding result like that, it's an even better result than Pierre Paliyev got, then you will see a strong united party fighting the conservatives and fighting against Trump And so the question now is now what let's have a listen to a bit more of Mark Carney's speech. So Donald Trump thinks thinks He can weaken us with his plan to divide and conquer Pierre poliev's plan will leave us divided and ready to be conquered. Because a person who worships at the altar of Donald Trump will kneel before him, not stand up to him. Chad, how does Pierre Poliev show that he is the leader right now to stand up to Donald

Trump? I don't know. He invites his friends in London over the weekend and 2,500 people show up. He gets elected in his own leadership with three times the votes that Mark Carney earned. I mean, the Liberal Party is so energized and excited right now. Less than 50% of the people who signed up to vote

in a process where you only had to click on an email actually cast a ballot. Mark Carney right now and the Liberal, the Trudeau team that's running him are like the arsonists who burn down your house and then want you to thank them for helping in the home renovation. Canada today is weaker. Sounds like Susan's coughing on the smoke there. Yes.

But continue. Canada today is weaker, more expensive and less safe. So Pierre Pauliev is continuing a two year effort of talking to Canadians about how we start to fix some of these problems. I welcome Mark Carney to the debate. I look forward to watching him meet a voter for the first time. What about that idea that he raised suggesting that Pierre Pauliev is in some ways a disciple of Donald Trump, or at the very least an ally. It is, is it a problem if people like Elon Musk have endorsed Pierre Poliev or that members of, of his caucus have been seen, you know,

photographed with MAGA hats on, for example. Is that going to be a liability in future? Do you think? Pretty rich from a guy with the Ghislaine Maxwell photo, who called himself a European. If he wants to get into a culture. This is Mark Carney that you're talking about. Correct.

Who, if Mark Carney wants to get into a culture war of who's a better Canadian, I really look forward to this campaign and watching first-time candidate Mark Carney have these debates with people who've actually done this before. Susan? Mark Carney has knocked on many doors. He has not stood for election yet, but he will. He's helped campaign in the last couple of elections

helping candidates. Mark Carney has run Central Bank in Canada during the economic crisis. He was tapped as the first ever non-Brit to run the Central Bank in the EU and helped with the Brexit issue. They even asked him to stay on. He was hired initially by Stephen Harper and Jim Flaherty and then we've seen the tape about that and I think he's going to be the kind of leader we need at this point in time. He doesn't, he's not a slogan guy, he's not a sound the kind of leader we need at this point in time. He's not a slogan guy,

he's not a soundbite guy, he hasn't spent the last 26 years perfecting his QP lines, question period lines. Pete Is it a problem for him if he says that he's a European in a moment when people are rallying around the Canadian flag? Julie I don't think anybody questions Mark Carney's loyalty to Canada. He's done the public service, he's come back, he's been a hardworking Canadian for a very long time and he has not spent the last two years telling people that Canada is broken, which is exactly

what Pierre Poliev has done. There are questions as to when these lines will be tested out and when an election will actually happen. On Friday, the leader of the NDP, Jagmeet Singh, seemed to open the door a crack or maybe a bit more than a crack. Does some sort of new deal with the Liberals have a listen to this? We're going to have an election this year. We're ready for that. But we want to see supports for workers done first. For us, this is a matter of putting workers first and election can come

second. And so yes, absolutely absolutely we are ready to see supports passed in the house put in place, working to support people who are hurt right now, and then we'll go to an election. Melanee, what's going on there? You know, I think we're staring down a massive threat, and I'll give credit to Justin Trudeau and the government. The way that they've communicated with folks over the last few weeks

has been in such a dire contrast from the way they've communicated with folks in the fall in telling them exactly what they're doing to fight Trump. The problem, I think, is we're trying to appease someone who's not looking to be appeased. So then you have to look to then what? What happens when he does whatever he wants to do?

And I think that's the conversation that Jagmeet Singh's trying to have right now,'s how are we going to support families? How are we going to support workers here when he does inevitably what he wants to do? So it's not about the NDP hemorrhaging votes to the Liberals? You know again I went to the the polling before of whether or not this is real. I think you have to see that now in real life, now that that Carney is prime minister. And the interesting thing for the NDP, I think, or the thing to pay attention to is while the conservatives are going to want to say that Carney is very much the same as Justin Trudeau, the NDP doesn't mind saying that he's very different, right? Because a

lot of the folks that were voting for the NDP or that had moved over from the NDP doesn't mind saying that he's very different, right? Because a lot of the folks that were voting for the NDP or that had moved over from the NDP, some of those folks actually do like Justin Trudeau. They like the things that Justin Trudeau was putting forward. They like the vision, they like the investing in people. And Mark Carney has been super clear that's not necessarily the approach he's going to take. So there is an opportunity there for the NDP

to bring those people back over. I think you just need a little bit of time to do that. Susan, is there any possibility that the liberals would want to delay an election at this point? I don't think so. And I don't think Canadians want an election delayed. They see what's happening with Trump. They see the tariff yo-yos that we're all dealing with.

Everybody's feeling the uncertainty. And I think they'd like a chance to go to the polls and get that settled. So if we were talking before about saving the furniture, what do you think coming out of last night, the realistic goal for many liberals is now? What are they dreaming of? What are you dreaming of?

Well, I'd like to see an election, but I don't know if it's so much a partisan thing, Mark, for Canadians. I think Canadians want to have a say, they want to understand the direction and who's got the hand on the tiller of the boat. And, uh, and I don't think they're thinking so much they want to understand the direction and who's got the hand on the tiller of the boat. And I don't think they're thinking so much about liberals versus conservatives. I think

they're thinking about competence and confidence in our country. I think a lot of liberals are thinking that maybe they have a chance here. Well, I think we're a whole lot more hopeful than we were a few weeks ago, for sure, based on where the polls were and the closing of the gap there. Elections are tough things and the conservatives have a good ground game. They have a big war chest right now and the longer it goes before there's an election, the more money they can spend on their fancy ads and their interesting lines that I think are a little far from the truth.

But Canadians are smart people, they're reasonable people. When we get into a campaign and the spending playing field is leveled, they'll be able to make up their minds about who they think is best to run the country. Chad, do you think there's any hesitation from the conservatives about going into an election in the midst of a trade war? I think the conservatives have been ready to go to the polls because Canadians have wanted an election for the last two years and I think that the Bloch-Kabakwala like 1993 may have to be ready to be the opposition again. I think the NDP under Mr. Singh could be wildly competitive when they remind Canadians they've created two big entitlements while not having

been government that benefited folks who otherwise have been hurting economically. But I think when liberals go to the door this election, they're going to discover that old Saturday night hoedown, country western classic, get your tongue out of my mouth, I'm kissing you goodbye. There's going to be an awful awakening here. Look at the liberal caucus. People who should be standing for reelection one more time are saying, I'm out of here. Lawrence McCauley, my home province of PEI, wouldn't be hard for Lawrence to run one more time and guarantee the seat. He's leaving. Everybody's leaving. This party is over. Ten years, it's over. I'm kind of just still stuck on the lyric, but yes, Susan, go ahead.

I'm going to leave that one with Chad. But Lawrence McCauley is 75 plus, I believe, and he's won many, many times and he is stepping aside. But there are three liberal MPs who said they weren't going to run again who are actually coming back. Anita Onond is one of them. Yes, a minister, Wayne Long, who originally called for Mr. Trudeau's resignation. He's running again. Dr. Helena Jasek from Ontario, she's running again. So quite the opposite in fact is happening. And I think you're going to see a very interesting cast of candidates with Mark Carney

as a leader. And I actually think the cabinet, the cabinet's going to be very interesting too. I think you'll see some familiar faces because of continuity with the Trump regime, but you'll also see some new, some new blood. On the embedded podcast, no, it's called denying us freedom of speech. It's misinformation. Like so many Americans, my dad has gotten swept up in conspiracy theories. These are not conspiracy theories. These are reality.

I spent the year following him down the rabbit hole, trying to get him back. Listen to alternate realities on the embedded podcast from NPR, all episodes available now. Chad, you mentioned the rally that Pierre Poliev had in London, 2,500 people apparently there. He has been speaking about Mark Carney,

even before Mark Carney was elected leader of the Liberal Party. Have a listen to what Mr. Poliev said at a news conference on Friday. How is it possible for Mark Carney to stand up for Canadian jobs when he's already moved jobs from our country to New York? How is it possible for him to support Canadian pipelines that might compete

with his foreign energy investments? How is it possible for him to support Canadian energy independence when he has already invested millions of dollars in American coal. The answer is it is not possible. His financial interests run against our national interest. Melanie, do you think that those attack lines early on even are starting to stick? I'm going to say no and the reason I'm going to say no is not because there's not a lot to criticize about Mark Carney. I think some of the things that Pyatpalyev is raising are legitimate criticisms of Mark Carney, but to suggest that he's basically traitorous to this country, I don't think is something that people are picking up as truth or are picking up as legitimate right

now. And I think, honestly, I think it seems desperate a little bit. I think it seems a little bit like you're not on the ball or on the nose with exactly how people are perceiving him right now. And in a time where folks are so scared, they went from being angry to being scared and are now trying to, you know, band together to fight this massive threat that we have against the United States. And whether Piapanja likes it or not, Mark Carney is going to be our prime minister for whether a short time or, you know, we'll see how long. But folks will have to rally behind him if they want, you know, the threat to be taken care of in the last little bit. So I think pretending, you know,

or insinuating that he's a traitor to Canada, I just, in my, you know, non-partisan universe, it doesn't test well, so I can't imagine with a lot of folks it does. The rallying around Canada is really interesting. Let me just end there. We have a couple of minutes left. Let me end there. Jean Chrétien was speaking last night before the results were announced. He talked about joking that Donald Trump should be named to the Order of Canada for uniting Canadians like never before. Jason Kenney was on the air with me last week and talked about how, I mean, and it's not a partisan thing, but that the Canadians in many ways want people to believe

in this country and throw their lot behind the country, Chad, is that possible? I mean, in an era of partisan politics? Well, I think there's a huge amount of national unity. I think we saw it the night of the hockey game, but I don't think that's made anybody's economic pain go away or let them forget about the, the

10 years of, of liberal rule of the country that they want to continue. I just wonder how you have those conversations, those big conversations about the moment without losing that sense of unity. Well, at a moment of Canadian unity, when we have a discussion that Mark Carney moved our largest financial services company to New

York and then lied about it over the last two weeks and has refused to proactively disclose what his holdings are in that company, I think that's going to be a big discussion about who's more Canadian. And if Mark Carney wants to make cheap homophobic slights at his political opponent that he's never met in person. I don't know about those. When you suggest that a man kneels in front of another man, I think the illusion isn't subtle. And I welcome Mark Carney to a political debate in which people are going to come back at him

just as hard as he throws. Susan, I don't know whether you want to pick up on that or not, but how do you have this conversation? I guess one of the things is again, a bit of what we said just in the last, you know, minute or so that we have, how do you have the conversation about the moment without it descending into a state of disunity? I think you've just heard that what will be the difference between the Liberals and the Conservatives in this election and between Mark Carney and Pierre Paulyev in this election. Mark will stand up for the country. He won't tell Canadians that he's broken. He will have a path forward that doesn't chip away at people at the same time.

And he gives Canadians credit for being able to figure out and understand the truth and make a good solid decision not based on cheap shots and slogans. I hope we all have the chance to come back. This campaign is going to be quick and I hope you'll all join us in studio together perhaps. In the meantime, thank you for this morning. Thank you. Have a great day. Susan Smith is a liberal commentator, co-founder and principal of Blue Sky Strategy Group. Melanie Richet is an NDP commentator with Ernst Cliff Strategies.

They were both in our studio in Ottawa. Chad Rogers, conservative commentator with Crestview Strategy, he was in our studio in Calgary.