The Current - Is Trump turning American cities into military zones?

Episode Date: August 27, 2025

U.S. President Donald Trump has deployed National Guard troops onto the streets of Washington, D.C., saying it’s necessary to tackle crime. Now he’s warning Chicago could be next. His critics say it’s unconstitutional and a power grab move that creates a militarized environment without solving the root causes of crime. Martin Austermuhle, a journalist with The 51st, a local Washington, D.C. news outlet, talks about what life is like in the capital with National Guard troops on the ground. Then Illinois Congressman Jesús “Chuy” García and Ed Yohnka of the ACLU of Illinois weigh in on Trump’s threats to send the National Guard into Chicago.

Book club on Monday. Gym on Tuesday. Date night on Wednesday. Out on the town on Thursday. Quiet night in on Friday. It's good to have a routine. And it's good for your eyes too. Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers,

you'll know just how healthy they are. Visit Spexsavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam. Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. It's about power. It's not about crime. It's not about equity. It's about control. We want these forces gone now. We want them out of our communities. D.C. is united in this. We do not want them here. We want them gone today.

Anger is palpable among residents of Washington, D.C., where U.S. President Donald Trump has deployed National Guard, troops for the past two weeks. He said it was necessary because of rampant crime. Data from D.C.'s Metropolitan Police says the number of violent offenses hit a 30-year low in 2024. And one of Donald Trump's top advisors, Stephen Miller, said the presence of National Guard troops has made the city safer. For the first time of their lives, they can use the parks, they can walk on the streets.

You have people who can walk freely at night without having to worry about being robbed or mugged, they're wearing their watches again, they're wearing jewelry again, they're carrying purses again. People had changed their whole lives in the city for fear of being murdered, mugged, and car jet. And Donald Trump is threatening to send the National Guard to Chicago as well. We'll hear from a congressperson from Illinois in just a moment, but first I'm joined by Martin Ostermule. He's a journalist with the local news source, the 51st, and a longtime resident of Washington, D.C. Martin, good morning. Good morning. How are you? I'm well, thank you. How are things in

D.C.? Tell us how it's looking with the National Guard there. Well, I think there is the TV reality that President Trump wants to create the sense of kind of like this city he is taken by force and has made safer than it's ever been. And then there's the reality on the ground. I've lived here for 25 years. I have kids here that, you know, school just started this week. In most parts of the city, life goes on as usual. Nothing much has changed. In other parts of the city, you do see the National Guard deployed. Now, the places where they are deployed are high tourist areas, kind of the national sites, the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial. And these are just people in uniform with heavy military vehicles, kind of standing around not doing a whole lot of much. It's quite an image,

though, to present to, from the outside looking in, it's quite a stark image to see these military vehicles and uniformed armed guards in front of the monuments. Oh, absolutely. And I think that's exactly what President Trump wanted. It's not that the National Guard is actually going to fight crime in the District of Columbia. It's not built for that. But it is a big show of force. It makes for great optics. It makes for great TV and photography. And it kind of sends the message of, look, I'm in charge now. So what are they actually doing? I mean, honestly, at this point, for the first week that they were deployed, it was about 800 of them. There was a relatively small force. They were mostly standing around in very safe, highly-high-high-high-high-trial. traffic tourist areas, just kind of standing there, mostly getting their pictures taken with tourists. Then they started increasing in size. Now we have about 2,000 National Guardsmen in the city. They started patrolling the local metro system, so you see them walking around.

They're now carrying arms, which they weren't before. But they're not out and about in city neighborhoods at night doing anything. They're not actually joining police on raids or kind of going out there arresting people. They're mostly just sitting there kind of for the optics value. And how are people responding to this? I mean, I saw one image, actually, the morning of National Guard troops collecting garbage in parks. Yeah, that's the new thing that they're doing now. They've got these folks who are volunteer troops. These are not full-time troops.

So they're coming from their being, they've been taken from their homes and their regular lives, and now they're in D.C. in theory for public safety, and they're picking them trash. Compare that to what we heard from Stephen Miller as we began this segment about carjacking and people not wanting to wear jewelry, the president. saying people stopped going to restaurants, paint a picture for us about the crime reality in D.C. Well, I think it's fair to say that President Trump and his aides are one for hyperbole. They like, you know, using big language like that to make it seem like they've solved a big

problem. Now, that being said, crime has been a problem in D.C. I mean, the city has higher than acceptable rates of homicide. I don't think anybody denies that. Now, has that interfered people's daily lives? No. Again, I've lived here for 25 years. I've gone to the parks often. I walk my kids to school. All my neighbors do the same things. I mean, that is normal life. So that they've sent the troops in hasn't meaningfully impacted the levels of crime that the city was seeing, which were already decreasing.

And they certainly haven't caused people to come out of hiding as I think the president's aides want to make it seem. What do you make? What is your sense of how the president and his team are disputing the numbers that crime rates are actually falling in D.C., even if they started from a high rate, the data from police say crime is actually down in the city. He says that's just police giving false numbers to create a false sense of security. Now, there is some truth that over the years, I mean, this isn't the first time that police have been accused of fudging some of the numbers, like turning a serious assault into a lesser assault and things like that to make the numbers look better. Now,

is it widespread? That's what we don't know at this point. But the general assumption and the general perception is that this year, 2025, also last year, 22, 84, people were feeling safer. Now, things were bad in 2023. There was a post-pandemic spike in homicides, in violent crime, in carjackings. People did feel unsafe there. It was a regular topic of conversation among residents. Nowadays, far less so. I think more people are talking about the federal troops that they're seeing outside and the fact that those actually make them feel unsafe, which is ironic because they're supposed to bring safety to the city, but a lot of residents don't feel safe with federal troops around.

I read one of your comments that you've heard from people that they may not call police if they were seeing a crime or a victim of a crime because of the National Guard troops. Well, it's not even the National Guard because there's another element here that President Trump also deployed federal law enforcement agencies or people from the Drug Enforcement Administration, from the FBI. And those folks are very active in D.C. right now. And they're doing a lot of immigration enforcement. D.C. has a large Latino community, and those folks have told me directly, they will not call local police anymore if they see a crime or are victims of a crime because they're afraid that local police will turn around and tell immigration enforcement officers about what's happening.

And in the past, it did not occur in D.C. had a long-setting policy of not asking about immigration status when someone was reporting a crime. Right. Well, it was good for you to paint a picture for us of what's happening in the U.S. Capitol. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Martin Ostermule is a journalist at the 54st, a local news outlet in Washington, D.C. The U.S. President is also threatening to send the National Guard to Chicago. Chicago is a disaster, and the governor of Illinois should say, President, would you do us the honor of cleaning up our city? We need help. They need help.

We may wait. We may or may not. We may just go in and do it, which is probably what we should do. We're joined now by Democratic Congressman Jesus Chui Garcia. He represents Illinois' fourth congressional district, which includes Chicago. Good morning, Congressman. Good morning, Susan. Thank you for having me on. We're glad to talk to you from a city that the prime minister or the president rather describes as a disaster.

He says he can clean up crime in a week. What is your response to his plan? he is not welcome in Chicago this isn't about public safety it's not about law and order it's a show of force and mostly a staged show again underscoring his authoritarian intentions this is meant to create fear to silence and to control sending troops to occupy cities where they're not wanted doesn't enhance public safety and we can't accept this as the norm. We've seen this in history, and that's why Chicago is very opposed to the mobilization of the Guard. Chicago also has a long history of being a safe haven for immigrants, for women's rights, for the LGBTQ community. Texas Democrats were here over the last month seeking refuge from the illegal and violative redistricting. that's occurring in the state of Texas.

That's why Trump has it in for Chicago. Congressman, how bad is the crime problem in your city? The president refers to it as, quote, a killing field. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Chicago's most serious crimes over the past two years have been reducing significantly. For example, the Chicago Police Department is reporting that homicides have decreased by 32%.

Robberies have decreased by 36% and shootings have decreased by 36%. But those are from high numbers, are they not? The numbers, the crime numbers, may be coming down, but the starting point was quite high. Would you admit that? We have had a serious violence problem in Chicago. crime spike during the COVID and the pandemic without a doubt. We've had a significant challenge

in terms of public safety, especially as it relates to young people and their involvement in gang and other illicit activities. We're not whitewashing that. What we're saying is that significant progress is being made. The trend toward improving public safety is a very encouraging encouraging one. The mobilization of the Guard will not improve public safety. The National Guard is not trained for that. It's a waste of time and it's a charade. This is part of the Trump's strategy. The President clearly sees crime as an issue that he and the Republican Party have some traction on. And it's been pointed out that some of the cities that he's targeting, including Chicago, are led by Democrats, the states led by a Democrat.

How do you see this as a political issue and how do you respond by assuring people that Democrats want to fight crime as well? Well, look, without a doubt, it's very clear that the states with the highest levels of criminality are red states where there are Republican governors and Republican legislatures who are governing those states. Let's be clear. Donald Trump is escalating his attack on Chicago because he needs a distraction from what? From the Epstein files, potentially incriminating Trump, the California redistricting response and the fact that Texas legislators took refuge in Illinois is another reason. The D.C. militarization is rejecting Trump's mobilization. And of course, the mass mobilizations that have occurred all over the country are all signs of the rejection of his policies. How far are you and officials in your city and state prepared to go to make sure that

National Guards don't show up? Donald Trump is deeply unpopular as our governor has said. All options to prevent the mobilization of the guard are on the table. What kind of options, Congressman? pardon me what kind of options are on the table legal options challenging the president's attempt to mobilize the guard in the court but he also is aware that chicago is deeply opposed and illinois is deeply opposed to the manipulation of the guard for political aims which this is all about this is all about distracting so we are looking at i think peaceful demonstration that would be triggered by the mobilization of the Guard, as they were in California. Remember that the mobilization of the Guard and the Marines in California is what triggered even larger demonstrations. Congressman, we appreciate your time this morning. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Susan. Congressman Jesus Chui Garcia is a Democratic representative from Chicago, and he joined us from that city. Book Club on Monday Jim on Tuesday Date night on Wednesday Out on the town on Thursday Quiet night in on Friday

It's good to have a routine And it's good for your eyes too Because with regular comprehensive eye exams at Specsavers You'll know just how healthy they are Visit Spexavers.cavers.cavers.cai to book your next eye exam Eye exams provided by independent optometrists. Art has power to inspire us, to unite us, to give us solace and courage when we need it most, to create important stories, lasting memories, a sense of belonging.

Your National Art Center serves as a catalyst and communities across Canada, empowering artists, inspiring audiences, and bringing us closer together. Learn more at nac.ca.ca slash create in Canada. Joining us now is Ed Yonka. He is the Director of Communications and Public Policy at the American Civil Liberties Union in Illinois. He too joins us this morning from Chicago. Ed Yonka, good morning.

Good morning, Susan. And it's such a pleasure to be with you and to follow my friend, Chewy Garcia. So let's talk about some of the legal issues here is what the president proposing for Chicago legal? Is it constitutional? Well, that's an interesting question, and it depends in large measure about both how and why he does it. There are a number of different ways in which the president can, for example, federalize the National Guard and deploy them in a particular place or send them into a particular place.

But those decisions and whether or not they're legal are largely dependent upon the reason why he says he's going to do that. And what we know, what we've seen in L.A., what we've seen in Washington, D.C., as you've heard described, what he says and his acolytes say about Chicago simply is not true. There is no emergency in Chicago that justifies sending in federal forces. Now, in the District of Columbia, there is no governor. D.C. is not part of a state. So the National Guard reports directly to the president.

That is not the case in Illinois. So is that a legal argument that you can see officials making? Yes, it is. And again, you know, in effect, the president, you know, takes the role as the governor of Washington, D.C., because, of course, we've denied statehood to Washington, D.C. for so long. In Illinois, we have a governor to whom the National Guard reports. If the President attempts to usurp that authority, I have every confidence that that will be the subject of legal

wrangling over the next few weeks. The President has also signed an executive order expanding the powers of the National Guard, creating new National Guard units, not a lot of details about what he sees there. But essentially, he says they can be used to quell civil disturbances. What are the legalities of that? Well, I think that's something that, you know, again, we're looking for details in much the way you described. But I think if you kind of peel back a layer, there is an incredibly ominous tone to what the president says when he talks about quelling disturbances. The president sees as a disturbance the fact that 75,000 people showed up in downtown Chicago in June for a rally to decry his policies and declare that he was

not a king. The president sees as, you know, an insurrection the fact that people in 2020 when he was president went out into the streets in massive numbers to protest. the murder of George Floyd. The president sees anything that questions him as, you know, not being worthy of First Amendment protection. Of course, while we know that he pardons people who actually engage in violence. And so I think you have to question some of his motivations in creating these new guard forces. Well, on the issue of motivations and their impact, what are the possible impacts on civil liberties in the United States? Well, I think in large measure, it is, I think stepping back, and I think Representative Garcia

made this reference, but I think if one steps back, this is not about crime. This is not about anything except control and Donald Trump's totalitarian instincts. And when you think about the impact is there are people who, you know, as I mentioned, these large protests and these large mobilizations we've had in Chicago, what we know is, is that with the presence of troops, there will be a substantial number of people who won't go out. They won't feel safe. They won't feel safe moving around their whole neighborhood in fear of being pulled out of their car by federal troops. And like, let's dig into that just a little bit, we wrap, what worries you most about the possibility of the troops showing up in Chicago?

I think there are three things that worry us most. The first is the impact upon people who are engaged in peaceful protests or the press actually covering the activities of the guard being inhibited. I think the second thing we worry about is the use of excessive force in both L.A. and Washington, that has been a feature and not a bug. And the third thing is, is that the use of racial profiling, going to certain neighborhoods or certain locations, picking out anybody whose skin color is, you know, darker than mine in order to target people for Trump's mass deportation program. Well, it's been interesting to talk to you this morning, and we appreciate your time.

Thank you, Susan. Pleasure to be with you. Ed Yonka is the Director of Communications and Public Policy at the American Civil Liberties Union in Illinois. He spoke to us from Chicago. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening.

I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.