The Current - Israel strikes Hamas leadership in Qatar and what’s happens next in Gaza City

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Hamas says 5 of its members were killed in an attack in Doha that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says was in retaliation for a deadly shooting at a Jerusalem bus stop on Monday as well as the October 7th attacks. With Hamas leadership in Doha to discuss a ceasefire deal proposed by the U.S before the attack, where do talks stand now? We’ll also hear from Karim Abushbak. His parents and his sisters recently fled the bombing in Gaza City. Now, after months of waiting, the Canadian permanent residents have approval from Ottawa to leave Gaza by September 17 - they just have to make it out alive.

Every writer has a beginning. For Arundati Roy, it was her mother. In Mother Mary comes to me, the Booker Prize-winning author of the God of Small Things offers an intimate and inspiring account of how she became the person and writer she is, shaped by her complex relationship to the mother she describes as, My Shelter and My Storm. This is not just a memoir. It is a love story, a reckoning, and a journey into the making of one of the world's most celebrated voices.

Mother Mary comes to me by Arundati Roy. Now, wherever books are sold. This ad is brought to you by Simon and Schuster, Canada. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Ceasefire negotiations to end the war in Gaza are hanging in the balance after Hamas says five of its members were killed in a targeted Israeli attack in Qatar. Hamas leaders were in Doha discussing a U.S. proposal to end the conflict. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu says, as the strike was retaliation for the shooting at a bus stop in Jerusalem on Monday that killed six people, as well as the attacks of October the 7th.

It comes as Israel has issued an evacuation order for all residents of Gaza City ahead of its planned offensive to take control of that territory. The bombing is intensifying day after day. We cannot leave the house for fear of being targeted. You know, there's a quadcaptor also. and when I was walking in the street last time, a character shooting on me. You could be the next victim.

You can't know. Ferras Omar is 25 years old. We reached him yesterday as he was packing to leave Gaza City. Every time we was a displacement from a place to another. We are moving from a place to another like 11 times. Could you imagine? I'm destroyed actually from this situation. I lost my job, my life, my dreams.

I was, have a big dream, but the genocide destroyed it completely. He and his family plan to evacuate Gaza City today, and they'll be heading south. I will live in a tent. There's no way to live in a tent. like water, like when you are going to sleep, there's very difficult things you will be in true. But you have to live in a hard situations. In a moment, we'll speak with somebody who has just fled Gaza City

and is waiting to come to Canada. But first, we're joined by Greg Carlstrom. He's the economist's Middle East correspondent. He's in Dubai. Greg, hello. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here. Let me ask you about this attack in Qatar yesterday.

the leadership, or part of the leadership of Hamas, was in Doha to discuss this latest American proposal to end the war. What do we know about the impact of the strike? Who was killed? Well, the statement that we have so far from Hamas is that these leaders, including Khalil Haye, who is the head of the Hamas negotiating team, they are said to have survived the attack. Hamas says five lower ranking members of the group were killed, but the leadership was not also one member of the Qatari security forces was killed in this strike. So it doesn't seem to have done what Israel hoped it would do. And the statements that we've heard from Israeli officials over the past 24 hours have been very hedged. They're not making any claims

either about who they think may have been killed. They're not confirming that this strike was unsuccessful, but they're certainly not raising expectations either. What is your sense as to why this happened now? Well, I think the question of now is important. I think something like this happening, Israeli officials have been very clear since October 7th that they wanted to carry out an attack like that. I remember speaking with officials shortly after the massacre in October of 23, and they said any Hamas official anywhere in the world was a target. So there has been a desire to go after these leaders of the group. But why do it now? I think part of it was opportunity. You had not just Al-Haya, but other leaders who had all gathered in the same

place in Qatar to discuss this most recent ceasefire proposal that Donald Trump put forth several days ago. Some of those Hamas leaders aren't based in Doha, but they flew in for these negotiations. So there was this confluence where everyone was in the same place. But then I think there are also a lot of people in Israel, particularly the families of the hostages who are still being held in Gaza, who think Prime Minister Netanyahu also ordered this now as a way of undermining the ongoing ceasefire talks. He has been very resistant to a deal for many, many months now, and I think it's fair to say that this strike on Tuesday will put on hold at least any negotiations. Benjamin Netanyahu said that this strike was, in his words, wholly independent,

Israel initiated it, Israel conducted it, and Israel takes full responsibility. You said on social media that it is, in your words, implausible that the United States was not read into this. Do you think the U.S. knew that this was going to happen? I think they do. I mean, we've heard a very carefully worded statement from the White House, essentially implying that they only found out as the strike was underway. And by that point, it was too late to veto it, too late to really give the Qatari's any notice about it. But you think about the presence that the United States has in Qatar, it hosts the regional headquarters of the American Central Command. There's a large airbase, America's largest air base in the Middle East. It is a longtime security partner

of the United States. And so for me, it's very hard to imagine that Israel would carry out an attack on a country like that without coordinating with the Americans at first, without, you know, at the very least on a sort of military level, doing some de-confliction and, you know, talking to the American troops who are based at Haudet, the air base in Qatar. That's my view, and that's also the view, I would say, of many people in this region today, this claim from the White House that they didn't know that they only found out at the last possible moment. That claim is not carrying much weight with diplomats and other officials in Gulf countries. I mean, U.S. President Donald Trump said he was not thrilled, in his words, by the attack,

but it's worth mentioning as well that last night, the U.S. Embassy hosted Benjamin Netanyahu at a delayed 4th of July party in which he joked that he had been previously engaged earlier in the day square that for me right i mean the the visual of that was incredibly striking this was where nathaniel chose to announce that the strike had taken place that israel had carried it out he gave a statement uh in hebrew obviously with an eye towards getting it on the evening news in israel and then he gave a similar statement uh in english so despite these claims that the white House was infuriated and shocked and upset. I mean, if they were truly infuriated, I think the first thing they might have done would be canceling the Israeli Prime Minister's invitation

to this party. It's been almost two years now of, you know, these periodic media leaks about how first Joe Biden and then Donald Trump is upset with something that Israel has done in Gaza or elsewhere in the region. But despite all of those leaks, we haven't really seen a meaningful shift in American policy towards Israel. And so far, the reaction from the United States is more of the same. I want to talk about the implications of this. The mother of one of the hostages still held by Hamas wrote that, in her words, in trying to assassinate the leaders of Hamas, Mr. Netanyahu may have also assassinated her son. How do you expect this to play out with those who have been agitating in Israel for Netanyahu to end this war? I think it's only going to deep

the divisions in Israel when it comes to that question. This is playing very well with Netanyahu's base with right-wing voters in Israel. They're positively gleeful about the idea that Israel struck at Hamas leaders in Qatar. But I think for the majority of the Israeli public who have wanted for many, many months now, an end to the war in Gaza, this is going to reinforce all of the fears they already had, that Netanyahu doesn't want to end the war, that he's seeking to continue the war for his own political reasons and that he doesn't prioritize the plight of the hostages trying to recover those hostages. Obviously, this comes at a time when the army is still ramping up its preparations for a major offensive in Gaza City, ordering the entire population of the

city to evacuate. Many of the surviving hostages are thought to be held in Gaza City. So people were already extremely worried that this new army offensive might jeopardize the lives of the hostages, and now they have additional reason for concern. Qatar has also been playing a key role in these ceasefire negotiations, and then the economist, you wrote, that these talks are almost certainly over, at least in Qatar, which may abandon its role as a mediator. If and when they resume, it'll probably be in Egypt. Where will those talks go?

It's unclear at this point. The first question is who indeed survived this attack? When the reports first started coming out on Tuesday, when it sounds like that. that is if the entire Hamas leadership might have been wiped out. It wasn't at all clear than who would step in to negotiate. But I think even if some or all of these leaders have indeed survived, I think it's possible that after this strike, the external branch of Hamas,

the political leaders who are based outside of the Palestinian territories, might perhaps have less influence going forward. I think also they're not going to be inclined to make concessions right now. It's very hard to believe that any leader of Phrmas, immediately after Israel tried to assassinate the group's leadership, that any leader of Phrmas is going to be willing to make significant concessions towards a ceasefire. But will Carter continue to host those talks, or will they have to, if talks were to continue, would they have to move to a different venue? They've wanted to step away from hosting the talks for a while. I mean, speaking to Qatari officials in recent months, some of them have been very unhappy. They feel like they are trying to play a role as mediator, but they're getting a lot of criticism from Israel and from Western allies for hosting the leaders of Hamas. That is their view in Doha.

And so they had been threatening to step away. That actually, from the perspective of at least some Israeli negotiators wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. They think the Egyptians would be inclined to be much tougher on Hamas. Egypt, of course, has a very hostile relationship with the Muslim Brotherhood, with other. Islamist groups and Hamas is one such group. So the talks could very well shift to Cairo. In that case, you would have Egyptian security and intelligence officials talking with, we're not quite sure, talking with perhaps some of the Hamas leaders who were targeted this week, but also perhaps trying to talk more with the military leadership of the group based inside

of Gaza. What does this mean in the region for those Gulf states who relate to? lie in many ways on American security guarantees. It's interesting that the crown princes of Saudi Arabia and Jordan are headed to Doha in the wake of this attack. What does that signal to you? I think everyone in the region is going to question those guarantees. If you put this in the broader context of the past few years, you had Iranian-sponsored attacks on Saudi oil facilities in 2019, a drone attack on the United Arab Emirates in 2022, which killed three people, of course, you had the Iranian missile attack this summer on that air base in Qatar. So they already feel as if they are under threat in the region.

And they feel as if America, after each of those attacks, did not do enough to protect them and to reassure them. They were already questioning the value of their American security guarantees. And now they've watched as, you know, one of America's closest allies in the Middle East attacked another close American ally in the Middle East with at least. some degree, I think, of foreknowledge, if not a green light. You know, there wasn't a red light from the United States. And so I think that is going to shake their trust in the American security umbrella. What they do about that in the short term, I'm not sure. They don't really have any good options in the short term. But I think in the longer term, it might make them start to reassess where they turn for security. No good option seems to be the thrust of this story.

Greg, it's good to speak with you, as always. Thank you very much. Thank you. Greg Carlstrom, is the Economist's Middle East correspondent. He is in Dubai. Every writer has a beginning. For Arundati Roy, it was her mother. In Mother Mary comes to me, the Booker Prize-winning author of the God of Small Things offers an intimate and inspiring account of how she became the person and writer she is,

shaped by her complex relationship to the mother she describes as, My Shelter and My Storm. This is not just a memoir. It is a love story. A reckoning, and a journey into the making of one of the world's most celebrated voices. Mother Mary comes to me by Arundati Roy. Available now, wherever books are sold. This ad is brought to you by Simon & Schuster, Canada.

Hey there, I'm David Kahn. If you're like me, there are things you love about living in the GTA and things that drive you absolutely crazy. Every day on This Is Toronto, we connect you to what matters most about life in the GTA, the news you've got to know, and the conversations. your friends will be talking about. Whether you listen on a run through your neighborhood or while sitting in the parking lot

that is the 401, check out, this is Toronto, wherever you get your podcasts. Karim Abushbach and his family fled Gaza City a little over a week ago heading south. He and his sisters and parents are permanent residents of Canada. They've been trying to get help from Ottawa

to get out of Gaza and back to Canada, and they are very, very, close. Karim, hello. Hi, man. Where are you, and are you safe where you are? I'm currently in Delbaugh, and nobody's safe in the Gaza Strip. Tell me about what it's

like where you are. You say nobody is safe. How close have you and your family come to the airstrikes around you? It is very dangerous. The irstrike just coming and coming. Like a few days ago,

At 3 a.m., a house, just only 100 meters away from us, got strike. But thanks God, the house was empty, but it was absolutely terrifying. And we got suffocated from the dust and from the explosion waves. And some small rocks fell on us. But that's like explosion and strikes, this close happened. Like it just so far, leaving from one place to another because of the air strikes. We, it's just, it has been going for 700 days. One can take it anymore.

Why did you feel that you needed to leave Gaza City? In Gaza City, you can't live there. The bombing and the tanks and the shots and the gunshots are just getting closer and closer every day. We couldn't stay there anymore. It was just very dangerous. Who left with you? Who did you take with you to Darabala? It was me, my dad, my mom, my two little sisters and my granddad and my grandmom.

This only, we had to leave my whole mom's family side just because there was no for them. And they still currently travel in Gaza City. They have no place to go here and there, Balah. And it's very dangerous to them. It was dangerous when we were there. And every day just kept getting more dangerous. How difficult was it to get to Daryl Bala? It was very difficult.

It took us three days just to book a bus, not to book a bus to get an agreement with a bus driver. And he took almost $1,500 just to take us this small distance in Gaza City and Daryl Bala. And it's about 15 kilometers. And it's very, very expensive. Thanks God, we can afford this. this coast, but a lot of people can't.

So that's why a lot of people are just still in Gaza City. It must have been really difficult just to leave part of your family there. Yes, a lot was very emotional, and it's still, because we're just so afraid of them

because the bombing is so close to them. And you know, when you leave, you need to take some things, and things you have to leave because the bus doesn't fit all your stuff. So it's just a very, very, very terrifying and stressing thing to do. The displacement is one of the worst things. There is now an evacuation order for everyone to leave Gaza City. Where are people going to go,

do you think? Yes, the whole Gaza City, but a lot of people, it's not, I don't know. That's the problem. Like, people don't want to die there. Everybody wants to leave, but there's no place. There's no place, and people can't afford money. Leave to buy tents, to make a bathroom, you know. You need to make your own bathroom because you're going to a place. It's just sand. You will need to build a tent. You will need a bathroom. You will dig for your bathroom.

And just a lot of people don't have the money. You don't have. Can't do it anymore. So people are simply stuck. There's no place. There's no Raffach. No canyunis. When we spoke with you a few weeks ago,

you were waiting for the Canadian government to approve your application for documents to leave Gaza. What news have you heard since? then? Yes, our BRTD, thanks God, got approved last week. And if everything works well, we should leave Gaza this Wednesday. After almost four months of emailing and calling and trying, reaching for everybody just to approve our BRTDs, thanks God got approved. But that's not the end because we're going to leave our grandparents,

we're going to leave our family and friends. So it will be still hard emotionally. physically have on us. So you are supposed to leave Gaza within a week? Yes, we hope so. We hope to stay safe this week. What do you think that week is going to be like? I'm counting every minute right now just to leave.

And I'm saying goodbye to everybody I know here. I'm saying goodbye to whole Gaza because, you know, I might never see them again. So I'm saying bye to my friends, to my relatives, my family. I'm even going to say goodbye to my pet. I have a parrot pit. I will need to leave. This pit has been with us since the start of the war. It lived for us for almost 15 years now.

We will have to leave it. It's a parrot. We named him Zohal. It's very emotional on us to leave him. But that's life. How do you understand that? How difficult is it for you to leave all of these things behind? You need to be safe, but you're leaving so much behind you as well.

That's the problem. will need like it's all our life we have lived there so it will be very tough for us but our safety at first and our my little I can't take it anymore that are my little sisters my mom are crying and there's no food so we have to make this hard choice to leave everything and just go for hope for a bitter life a safe life and we pray for everyone who are going to stay here and pray the word that will live it will finish Do you think you'll ever return to Gaza? I hope so. If Gaza, if there's something, stays Gaza, if they don't destroy it at all, make it all a rubble, and displace all the people.

I hope so. I wish you the best of luck for this week. Stay safe, and thank you for talking to us again, Karim. Thank you. Thank you so much, man. Thank you. Bye-bye. I really appreciate it. Karima Bushback is a permanent resident of Canada. He was in Dar el-Bala. You've been listening to the current podcast.

My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.