The Current - Jobs minister says workers losing jobs to tariffs can rely on a ‘safety net’

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Matt Galloway asks Minister of Jobs and Families Steven MacKinnon what his government is doing to support the Canadian workers threatened by U.S. President Donald Trump’s tariffs.

Don't wait. If you submitted a Federal Indian Day School claim and have not heard back, now is the time to call the administrator to check on your claim. If your claim form is incomplete and any missing information isn't submitted by June 27, 2025, your claim could be denied. Don't wait. Call the administrator at 1-888-221-2898. Learn more at indiendayschools.com. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is the current podcast. The big issues around trade are going to need to be taken more comprehensively and they will be taken from a Canadian perspective from a position of strength. We can take time, we're going to get stronger and these initiatives

are going to weaken them. This Prime Minister Mark Carney speaking to reporters yesterday at an event in Nunavut about the issue that has seized the nation tariffs. 25% tariffs on aluminum and steel are already in effect. US President Donald Trump has said that reciprocal tariffs are coming into place on the 2nd of April and now in the face of all the uncertainty, some Canadian companies are already announcing job cuts, not just steel and aluminum related jobs that are getting chopped. Industries like furniture makers, even pantyhose makers are cutting workers. Joining me now is the Federal Minister of Jobs and Families, Stephen McKinnon.

Minister McKinnon, good morning. Good morning, Mr. Galloway, thanks for having me. Understanding that this changes day by day or hour by hour or minute by minute, depending on the moment, how bad do you think this is going to get? Well, I want to echo what Prime Minister Kearney, from the clip you just played, I think there is residual

and a lot of strength in the Canadian economy. We have the right workers, we have the right resources, and we have the right ingenuity. And one of the things that I'm sure we'll talk about is we have a social safety net, a net we can put under workers. Of course, the last thing we want to occur is a single job loss, but Canadian workers can rely on a safety net that auto workers in Michigan, that farm workers in Iowa or the Midwest cannot rely on.

So let's talk about that safety net. There are estimates that 600,000 people could lose their jobs as a result of this trade war. It's already happening. People are losing jobs at the Algoma Steel Plant. 140 people at Steel Operations in Ontario, Quebec have also lost their jobs. 115 people at a furniture maker in Quebec.

And so what sort of support are these people going to get now? Yes, and obviously those job losses concern us and we are watching that situation very, very closely. So the first measure we put in place that I announced a couple of weeks ago, Matt, was, it's called work sharing. A little known feature of the EI program, which allows workers to stay attached to their employer, employers to keep the knowledge and the training and

investments that they've made in their workforce, the things that we want and avoid workers going on to EI and that system allows a reduction of hours. Of course, workers and companies have to agree to that. It's entirely voluntary, but it has already worked to save jobs and we're seeing increased take-up. The second part of as we monitor this situation, and of course, we always want to calibrate our response to what is actually happening, But we have further proposals that will be coming forward with that put further protections under workers. The unique characteristic of this particular episode

and these unjustified and perhaps even illegal tariffs is that it affects certain what we call trade exposed industries. You know what they are and those are sectors we're watching closely, forestry, auto sector, steel and aluminum as you've noted. The EI system is uniquely appropriate to be the first response. Well, let me ask you about specific reforms to EI. Will you, I mean, you said that you're going to, you know, announce further details and presumably that will be part

of an election campaign that could come within days. Will you be waiving the waiting period for employment insurance? Look, that's a measure that we are considering, absolutely. Will there be additional weeks that will be added to the time that people can get for employment insurance? Oh, again, I want to calibrate my response to that. Look, all of those measures are measures that have been suggested by union partners, workers

and others. You can understand, though, why those, we're talking about the people who have already lost their jobs in Algoma and elsewhere, that they're curious now as to what's going to be available to them. Yes, absolutely. So we want to ensure that long tenured workers are as targeted as they possibly can be by the measures. So any measures that we come forward with in a next response would be targeted at resolving or helping with the situation now.

The Liberal government has promised EI reform for many, many years, and people believe that this is not just the opportunity but the need to do this. How quickly can you make those reforms? Well, we can experiment and do pilot projects by regulation with the EI system. These are things that again as I mentioned we are considering there are a series of measures that have been proposed that I have been discussing with union partners with businesses across this country. We have an incredible workforce and we are going to be there to protect them. Some of it is limited by the nature of the moment that we're in right now, right? You need legislative approval to move some significant reforms forward and of course

that can't happen with parliament prorogued. Comprehensive EI reform would require obviously, it should be debated in parliament, but there are a number of measures, temporary features, features that respond to the moment that can absolutely be put in place with all of the authorities that I have as Minister of Employment. Can I just ask you, you've talked about trade exposed industries.

We've spoken with people in the auto sector who say that plants will simply shut down if 25% tariffs come in. Is the Canadian auto sector even viable without a tariff free access to the US market? Well look, these plants, many of them, we have a situation in Brampton, Matt, where Stellantis has identified a product, has identified that plant as one of the most efficient in their entire portfolio where retooling had begun. I've met with that union local.

This is an artificial construct. The prior situation where we had free trade between Mexico, Canada and the US was not an artificial situation. This is an artificial situation. But the US president has said he wants to move those jobs back to the United States. I just wonder whether...

Indeed, artificially. What auto executives would say is we have an incredibly well calibrated system where Canadian high value work goes into building these cars. They meet with success on North American and other markets. We advocate for a return to that situation. The US president, the US administration is threatening us with tariffs that are outside of NAFTA, that are unjustified, that are inappropriate, and we're going to continue fighting them. It's not just the US and it's not just the auto sector, of course, that is very concerned

about this. There are 100% tariffs on canola from China that are due to start tomorrow in retaliation for Canada's tariffs on Chinese EVs. China is one of the biggest markets for Canadian canola. Yesterday, I spoke with a woman named Margaret Rugetti. She is a canola farmer near Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. Have a listen to her. I want to know why farmers are paying to protect

an industry that barely exists. I want to know why the automotive industry doesn't have to compete while we do. Yeah, don't really think Canadians want to buy Chinese EVs anyway. So why are we trading our successful canola industry? Yeah, I'm pretty angry.

She says that farmers like her are collateral damage in this war. What would you say to farmers like Margaret, who feel that their employment and their industry has been sacrificed for jobs in the auto sector? Well, Canadian canola and canola, the canola industry, canola farmers are the best in the

world and we will be absolutely supporting them. But they feel like they're not getting the same attention or support than people like the auto sector or aluminum and steel. and we will be absolutely supporting them. But they feel like they're not getting the same attention or support than people like the auto sector or aluminum and steel. We've already announced a $1 billion support program through the Farm Credit Corporation for farmers, but let us dig into those Chinese tariffs, Matt.

China has broken, in our view, world trade organization rules, not only on EVs, but on steel and aluminum. Within the world construct and trading system, we have applied tariffs that we believe are entirely justified for labor and environmental and other concerns and dumping concerns. the Chinese government. And I think that the Chinese government is not going to be able to respond to the dumping concerns. To respond in ways that can only harm

Chinese consumers is inappropriate in our view. There is absolutely no justification for tariffs on canola and we will be working very, very hard to make sure that the Chinese see the error of their ways. So in terms of that woman, we have absolutely every intention of supporting our canola industry and we will continue to do that just as we will for workers. I have to let you go, but one of the things you said yesterday is that this country is going to build. This is a line that the Prime Minister has used as well and you're talking about homes and bridges and pipelines and other infrastructure.

How are we going to do that if we already have a labor shortage in so many of the skilled trades in this country? Well, we're going to invest in skilled trades. For too long, Matt, we've told people that if you want to succeed in life, you have to get a university degree. That was not true when it was being said and it's certainly not true now. The skilled trades offer some of the most promising futures it is possible to have because of the fact that we need trade enabling infrastructure, railroads, energy infrastructure, yes, port infrastructure, roads, bridges. Canada will need to invest in all of these things. We need to diversify our export markets, but we also need to build resilience into our country. So does that mean scaling up things like apprenticeships

for those who want to enter the skilled trades? Yes, we announced yesterday, 30,000, just yesterday, 30,000 new apprenticeships, all in the sustainable jobs area. And we've invested over a billion dollars and do every year in the skilled trades in this country, working with unions, unions as trainers, unions as mentors. This has been a very effective way to get people skilled up

to meet the challenges of the moment. And let me just add before we go. Right. We do wanna build in this country. We are going to support workers in this country. I just have to contrast that with our opponents who want to take tariff revenue and give a massive tax cut. We think that the first thing we ought to be doing

is thinking about workers who are affected by tariffs, this unjust application of tariffs, and then get on to putting them to work, putting workers to work, building Canada. I'm sure we'll hear more about that when the election campaign officially begins. In the meantime, I hope we have the chance to talk again. Stephen McKinnon, thank you very much.

I would enjoy that. Thank you very much, Matt. Stephen McKinnon is the Minister of Jobs and Families. Don't wait. If you submitted a Federal Indian Day School claim and have not heard back, now is the time to call the administrator to check on your claim. If your claim form is incomplete and any missing information isn't submitted by June 27, 2025, your claim could be denied. Don't wait. Call the administrator at 1-888-221-2898.

Learn more at indiendayschools.com. We do more than anyone thought possible, with less than anyone could imagine. But it's time to imagine what we can do with more. Join Scarborough Health Network and together we can turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. Bee Brusk has been listening in. She's president of the Canadian Labour Congress and she's in our Ottawa studio. Bee, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. What do you think is at stake for workers in this country right now?

There is so much at stake for workers in this country. Workers are facing really a critical threat to their employment, to the safety of their economic future, quite frankly. You know, we know that 2.4 million jobs in Canada are directly connected to what we export to the U.S. Our economists at the CLC have identified that, um, we could stand to lose 1.5 million jobs in the first year of, uh, wide ranging tariffs

that Trump is threatening on April 2nd. And so people are already, as I said, losing their jobs, you're going to be in Hawkesbury in Eastern Ontario later on today, 140 factory workers in that community have already been laid off. What are you hearing from workers across the country about the, you country about the churning in their guts as not just we hear

about these tariffs, but as I said, layoffs are already starting to come into place. You're right. We have already heard of a number of layoffs in different pockets right across the country and workers are very, very worried about the future of their job and the future of their communities, especially in smaller communities.

You know, we're hearing from business leaders and workers are hearing from employers that they are second-guessing investments that they had previously announced into their workplaces. They're anticipating hiring less people. They are letting term positions go unfilled, for example. And you know, even where those folks haven't yet been laid off, they're very worried about that they're going to be laid off any minute now. And, you know, people are very stressed out. It's this ongoing never knowing and not being sure what the next missive in the next tweet is going to be from the White House and how that's going to impact Canadian communities.

And so there have been promises to reform employment insurance, as I mentioned to the minister for years now. He is talking about the potential to do immediate reforms that would help those who are already facing layoffs. What are you looking for? How prepared do you think employment insurance is for what we're talking about? But also, what do workers need right now? Well, quite frankly, our current employment insurance system is woefully inadequate. Only two in five workers who currently apply are actually eligible for EI. So we need to really reevaluate what that system looks like and what we need it to be.

The last time we had a major overhaul of our employment insurance system was 1996. And I don't know about you, Matt, but in 1996, the world of work was quite different than it is today. And so the social safety net that the ministry was talking about that we are so proud of and rightfully so needs to have some big holds stitched up quite frankly. Are there things that the government can do quickly again without uh legislative approval and overall you know comprehensive overhaul of the EI's impossible but are the things that the government can do now that you think would help in the immediate moment? Absolutely and we saw government being able to

pivot and to react very quickly when it was when we were in the immediate moment? Absolutely. And we saw government being able to pivot and to react very quickly when we were in the middle of a COVID situation. And we've been talking to government for months now about the priorities that we have for a more robust employment insurance system. And that means extension of benefits. That means benefit levels. That means making sure that workers can train

while they're on benefits so that when there's job opportunities that they can fit the needs of those job opportunities. So there are many, many things that we talk to government about on a consistent and we'll be continuing to talk about on a very consistent basis. What do you make of that idea of work share, job share, so that it would be reduced hours and again to the minister's point, the employer has to agree with this, but that would allow people to continue to work and not need to go on EI. I really like the idea of job share where it's applicable and where it's possible

if you don't have a job to share you don't have a job but wherever possible we want to make sure that workers can can stay connected and tied to their employer. Once you break that tie between the employer and employee it's very hard to get back into a workplace but it's also really hard to keep those communities functioning. Especially in smaller, one industry driven communities, once you lose connection to those workplaces and workers sometimes have to leave the community, getting those workers back that have the knowledge and the skills is very difficult. So we fully support that, but that in and of itself is not sufficient for the kind of

threat that we're facing. Can I ask you about the idea of increasing the number of apprenticeships in this country? The minister says that we need to do that, but we also need to think differently about the role of the skilled trades. That this idea that you had to go to university or college to be successful after graduating from secondary school, and that that led to a diminishment in some ways in people's minds of the skilled trades needs to be addressed and now is the moment to do that. What do you make of that?

I completely agree with him. You know the reality is that trades offers some of the best and highly sought after jobs right now for Canadians. Some high pay as well. High pay, good benefits, decent pension plans right and so the opportunity for people to go into the trades through union training centers is often the most secure pathway to employment very quickly. And so the fact that the minister announced additional investments, we were very happy to see that. We need more than investments in trades, but that is a really critical first step, especially when we have to diversify our economy, when we have to invest in infrastructure, and so we're going to need those trades jobs in order

to actually get that job done. But that's a mindset change as well, right? It is a really big mindset change, but you know what? Trades jobs, when you talk to people in trades, they are so happy with the work that they're doing. They can see from day one to day two to day five, you know, the accomplishments that they have. I hear from workers in trades all the time

that tell me as they're driving, especially when they're involved in infrastructure and those kinds of things, you know, they're driving by a water treatment plant or, you know, some other construction project and they go, hey, I worked on that. There's a pride of doing that work and it's good paid work.

It is safe work and people feel very fulfilled doing that work and those are great jobs that we should be supporting. We just have a minute and a half left. How worried are you that the jobs that we are already seeing disappear will actually come back? One of the things that Donald Trump has done, um, as president with these tariffs is to try to bring jobs back to the United States.

He says he wants the auto sector to move its operations to the U S that's a big picture thing, but we're already hearing about smaller companies that are relocating to the US or locating their operations there because of this uncertainty. Do you think the jobs are actually going to come back to this country? You know, that is the $64,000 question, I guess, right? And that is something that's preoccupying us all. We need to make sure that our job losses are limited as much as possible.

We need to also make sure that we build the new economy of the future and that means that we have to right now make sure that levels of government are investing in creating those jobs, are investing in our infrastructure and our public service, are investing in job creation, that different levels of government, employers and labor works together to identify the kind of jobs of the future. We're also pivoting to a sustainable economy, right? And so what are those new jobs that we need to be focused on? And how do we make sure that we match folks looking for jobs with those jobs that are

going to be available? Those are all big picture ideas. Again, back to those numbers for people who have lost their job already. Very briefly, what is your message to them? They're not thinking about retooling an economy. They're thinking about keeping the lights on. My message to them is, I hear you, I see you, I speak with you all the time. We are two minutes away from a federal election.

Make sure that you are getting engaged in the political process. Make sure that you are questioning those who are knocking on your door, asking for your vote, what they are prepared to do to support you, your family, your community, and our country. Bea, it's good to talk to you, and we will talk again as that election begins two minutes from now or whenever it happens. Thank you. Thank you.

B. Brusk is the president of the Canadian Labour Congress. She was in our studio in Ottawa.