The Current - Lives changed forever, one year on from Oct. 7

Episode Date: October 7, 2024

The Oct. 7 Hamas-led attack on Israel unleashed a year of bloodshed and trauma, in the Middle East and beyond. Matt Galloway talks to two people about how their lives were turned upside down — and whether they have any hope for a lasting peace. 

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. Four days after the attack on Israel on October the 7th, I spoke with Aaron Broduch. He lives in Toronto. His brother, Avihai, and his family lived in one of the kibbutz communities that Hamas attacked. It's been a complete nightmare. I woke up Saturday morning to just bad news.

Called home, learned that my brother was injured in the fighting and that we lost touch with his family, his wife and three kids. He had been defending his town and basically saw children being murdered. And so now we're just sitting and praying that, you know, they return everyone safely. Avachai's children and his wife Hagar were taken hostage. They did return safely after 51 days as part of a ceasefire deal.

101 people, according to the Israeli government, are still captives. Avachai Brodach joins us now from Shephaim in central Israel. Hi. Hi, thanks for having me. Thank you for being here. What's it like to hear that description from your brother of what happened on the 7th of October? Well, I've never heard it before like that. It's incredible. And I was still in hospital, I think, when he did that interview. So just incredible to recall what happened back then and what kind of situation we are now. So just unbelievable. How are you doing a year into this?

We're good. You know, I have my family back. Can't say this about the rest of the hostages that are still there and their families. We have a lot of support from people around us. We went over to Toronto a few months ago and we got all the support I could ever imagine and much more. So just amazing to see what people around me have done for me and people that I don't even know. And how is your family recovering? You know, we've lived through this, which is incredible. It's a miracle.

And we're doing well. You know, the kids are playing with their friends and they're smiling and they're happy. And we're together. You know, once in a while, like a few days ago, we had missiles in Israel from Iran. And it was a very hard time for us. But we managed to get through it. And now we're fine. The kids are playing right now outside.

Have you been able to process, and that's a strange word, but have you been able to process what you have lived through in this last year? Well, I have to say that I haven't. I still haven't cried about any of my friends and my community and a lot of others that have been killed, slaughtered, or injured. This morning, I actually went over to the NovaVA festival where all these innocent people have been slaughtered. It's just incredible going there and seeing the pictures of such beautiful people. Just to imagine what happened over there, it was beyond words. You have to be there just to have the feeling of what happened there. So, you know, every day is like this every day,

we just live through this again and again and again, but, uh, I still haven't been able to cry, which is incredible. I think I'm still, uh, in this. How do you reckon with the fact that, I mean, as you mentioned, you have your family back, but there are still so many hostages a year after these attacks that have yet to be released. How do you reckon with that? It's, you know, I think I remember the first few days I was in hospital when I found out that they were probably,

first I thought they were killed, and then I found out that they were probably taken hostage. And I thought it's going to be a few days. I knew that, you know, Israel has always done everything that it could for the hostages. We've had people being kidnapped before. And, you know, the previous governments have done everything they could to get them back. And for my family, it took 51 days, which is, if you ask me, it's 50 days too long. And for the rest of the hostages, it's going to be a year. And it's just unbelievable that the government hasn't been able to get them back.

I think they have their priorities very wrong. And I hope to set them straight somehow. Tell me about those priorities. Because you, I mean, before your family was released, people might remember you had this, you know this one-man protest outside of the Ministry of Defense. You and your dog set up a chair. You sat there trying to change those priorities. The Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, has said that he wants total victory, that he will prosecute this war in Gaza to destroy Hamas, and that goal is non-negotiable.

Why do you say that that's the wrong priority? Well, saying total victory is just a word, two words, that it doesn't mean anything. He knows it doesn't mean anything, and he still keeps on saying it. You know, nobody's ever said the word peace in, I think, maybe 20 years. Nobody said the word peace, and that's what I want to hear. I don't want to hear total victory it's just a total victory nonsense uh we want our people back we want they're still alive we want them back alive not in boxes and it's just incredible that these people were taken from their homes and they're still over there uh you know being starved I know they're starved because

my family was starved and they're treating them you know in just inhum. I know they're starved because my family was starved and they're treating them, you know, in just inhumane ways. And they're still over there. I don't see any end to this. It just keeps on going and going. And all we want is peace. How big of an obstacle to peace do you think the prime minister is? Well, I think 50 percent. It's 50 percent our side and 50% on their side. I think it's obvious. It takes two great leaders to make peace. And right now, I don't think we have any great leaders. I don't know if we have any leaders at all. Is it possible, I mean, from where you sit right now, given what's happened over the course of this year, is it possible to imagine that idea of peace, a future where there is a peaceful coexistence

between Jews and Palestinians? Well, it's the only option. So it's all I imagine every day. I imagine peace. I lived on the border with Gaza, not because I wanted to fight my whole life, not because I wanted my children to be kidnapped, because I believed in peace.

And I still do. You know, I've always thought it's the only option. Now I know it's the only option. Somebody needs to be brave enough to stop this war and to reach out for peace. And I'm talking about both sides. How much empathy do you think there is among people on, as you say, both sides of this conflict,

to what the other is experiencing? Do you think that people can understand what those on the other side of this are going through? Definitely. You know, I know it on my kids. And I'm sure, you know, people, kids on the other side are feeling the exact same things. They want to play outside.

They want to be with their parents. You know, I just finished my studies as a nurse. And if you go to a hospital in Israel, it's about 50% Jews, 50% Arabs working there, nurses and doctors. And, you know, everybody gets the same treatment. If you're a Muslim and go to hospital, or if you're a Jew and you go into a hospital, you get the exact same treatment and it can be done. You know, we've even had people from Gaza. I treated a lady from Gaza when I was in critical care and she got the best treatment that we could give her. You know, if you step outside of politics and you see just how people act and people work. We work together. So, you know, I just blame the politicians.

That's it. You said you used the word bravery, though. You said that it requires bravery. What does that bravery look like? The reason I went out, took me a week to go out and sit there in front of the defense ministry is because what I saw is that everybody wanted revenge. Nobody wanted, you know, to get the living back. They just wanted revenge, which I guess, you know, is a human thing. But

I didn't want revenge. I wanted my family. And I think if people in the government had been brave enough and, you know, just said, look, we don't need to fight. We need to get our people back. And if we need to fight, we'll do it afterwards. That's bravery. That's bravery. I'm not saying, you know, sometimes you have to go into war in order to eliminate your enemies so they don't kill you. I understand that. But we have to get our priorities straight and our priorities are to get our living back. First thing we can do. Priorities are to get our living back. First thing we can do. And if we can make peace, if we have somebody on the other side that's willing to make peace, we should go for peace.

We just forgot that there is a peace option. How optimistic are you that the neighbors, your friends from the kibbutz who have been gone now for a full year, that they will make their way home? Oh, you know, it comes and goes. I have to say that some days I'm less optimistic than others. I'm more, when I say on average, I'm optimistic. You know, as Jews, that's our only option, being optimistic. We built this country and, you know, we have to keep on going. We have to be optimistic. And when you think, just finally, when you think of the future that your kids might inherit, what would that future look like, do you think, for them? What would you want it to look like for them?

Well, I want it to be like in Canada. You know, people are living their lives. There's, you know, the sense of war is just not there. It's not an, it doesn't even exist. You know, it was perfect, but it's not my country. Israel is my country. It's my language. It's my people. I hope to see it during my lifetime that Israel is peaceful like Canada is. I believe we can do it. We just need the right people.

Avichai, I'm really glad to talk to you. You have had an extraordinary, probably isn't a strong enough word, but an extraordinary year, you and your family. I'm glad that you're doing well, and I'm glad to speak with you. Thank you very much. Thanks. Thanks for having me. Take care. Thank you. Avachai Brodach was injured in the attacks on October the 7th of last year. His wife, Hagar, and their three children were taken hostage,

then released after 51 days in captivity. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is.

I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. I first spoke with Issam Hamad as he fled Gaza City with his family, then again when he was sheltering in Rafah and then in Khan Yunus. A few months ago,

he and his family made it out of Gaza and they are now in Ireland. And Issam joins me from Dublin. Issam, hello. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm okay. We have spoken, you and I, a number of times over this last year in what, as I said, were really, really difficult times.

So it's great to have the chance to talk to you again. How are you doing? I moved to Dublin here. I'm trying to make up my life and the children, get them in school and university, and try to live again after the destruction of all our belongings and the displacement of our family. How did you get out of Gaza? We talked about when you were trying to get out and the difficulties. How did you and your family ultimately get out? about when you were trying to get out and the difficulties. How did you and your family ultimately get out? Well, first of all, I have a son who was born in Ireland in 1997, so he carries the Irish citizenship.

Unfortunately, this boy is disabled. He has cerebral palsy. And his life deteriorated a lot with the conditions we were living in, Rafa, after flooding Gaza. And then I spoke to the Irish authorities who were able to get the family out in February. And after that, we had difficulties to leave myself and my older son, who was 19 and a half at that time. And a month later, we were able to make it to Cairo and then

they took us to Dublin. And how are you all settling in now in Ireland? It could be better, but for now, comparing to what we were living in Rafa, in the refuge place, we are okay. Simply Ireland is suffering from a big crisis of housing. So we are now at family help. We are not in a house or as we used to be in Gaza, but we are coping for and hoping for a better time to come. Are you able to work or are you waiting for work permits or how does that look? Well unfortunately the Irish authorities gave us a visa that allows us to reside in Ireland but when we arrived in Ireland they did not give us the residence permit so we had to apply for refugee status in June and

according to that way I'm not allowed to work except after six months of my application. So I'm trying to wait until the time comes, and then I will put a work permit application and start searching for a job. But that will take time. You mentioned getting the kids into school. How have the first few weeks of school been for them? Well, they started at the end of August, but once I arrived in Dublin here at the end of March, I started approaching schools for them to learn the language and be able to speak. And I spent that time from, let's say, April to August teaching them the English language.

And they are now enrolled in school normally. They are having difficulty. Of course, they are not like me, for example. I used to live in Ireland between 1983 and 1992. I'm a graduate from Ireland. So it's not the same for them. They are trying to learn a new language, but they are coping. And also the child who was in university in Gaza, who finished the first

year in artificial intelligence, he has a place now in Ireland, in TUD, and he's starting his second year. Given everything that you all have gone through as a family, as a father, what is it like for you to watch them start to settle in and get into new routines and play with other kids and make new friends and what have you? Well, it's not easy. in Ireland, it's not easy after all these years I have left and also not having all the means necessary to, for example, have a car for transport and going

here and there. It is difficult. But, look, Matt and the listeners, we have gone into a huge problem, a huge catastrophe. And we are trying to look ahead for the future,

not to look at the back end. Things are difficult, but we are trying to cope until we settle completely here in Ireland. You still have family and friends in Gaza. What do you know of how they're doing? I do, and they are having a big problem having food and drinking water and also trying to hide from the bombs. Things are very, very difficult. I still have relatives there, though my father has also, we have evacuated him to Cairo.

He's 94 years old, and it was very difficult getting him into Cairo and my sisters and also my son and my daughter who are married and with their families. I also moved them to Egypt, and I'm supporting them there. Lots of things are going in the head. I can hear it in your voice. I mean, you're carrying a lot. Yeah. What can you do? You are supporting all of these. What can you do? All of a sudden, all of a sudden, without warning, everything is turned upside down. And the worst moment of it all,

when I received the photographs or the video of my house, which I spent more than $200,000 building it, it was put to ground with everything in it. So, look, all my savings, 35 years of it, is gone. How do you cope with watching what's happening in Gaza from a distance? With grief. With grief? With grief. Yes, with grief.

Everything. You know, crying more than you are happy. Look at what happened to the people. Look how many innocent people have died because of this. Look at that. Everything is very bad. You're trying to ask yourself, what are these

millions of people who are innocent and have nothing to do with the problem? Why is everybody watching? Why is that? I was in Ireland before and I know the conflict in Northern Ireland. Have you ever seen or heard the British army coming with airplanes and bombing the people in Northern Ireland? Is this the way you're trying to solve a problem you have? This is unbelievable. What is happening is unbelievable.

Have you started, I mean, given what you're still working through, but also what is still unfolding in Gaza, have you allowed yourself at all to think about the idea of returning home? I was asked this question in December. And I said to everybody who was interviewing me that I am definitely going back to Gaza. But that was according to the information available. Now, all my savings, I put it in real estate. I have two flats and one building. All of them have gone.

Infrastructure in Gaza is gone. Hospitals, colleges, schools, roads, water, sewage, everything is gone. Colleges, schools, roads, water, sewage, everything is gone. So is it the time to ask me in a place which has become non-livable, is it the time to think that I go back? Okay, let's say I'm a very patriotic man and I want to say, look, I will not forget my country and I will go back. What about my children who are in school and in university?

Should I leave them now or should I take them to the unknown? Look, all these questions I cannot answer. I cannot answer now at all. I don't know what's going to happen in the future. I don't know whether this war will turn into a World War III and then this question is... there's no place for this question. I don't know. You don't know. Nobody knows. Nobody knows. How do you talk to your kids about this? Because part of it is about where home is, right? And what home means. How do you talk to them about this? To be quite honest now, I'm trying not to talk about it. I'm trying to support them at school. I'm trying to help them learn the language. I'm trying to sit with them, translate with them, explain the meanings in the books.

They are all of a sudden, rather than studying English as a foreign language, they are now faced with all the subjects at school in English and in technical English and they are studying Shakespeare. I myself, I don't understand what Shakespeare is saying in his Merchant of the Venice.

And I'm doing hard work. My children were one of the first. Their grades at school are in the 90s. Now I can't imagine myself that my children are behind. So I'm trying to put all my effort to bring back my children to the level they are used to be in. I'm glad to have had the chance to talk to you a number of times over the course of this year. It has been an incredibly difficult year for you. And so I'm grateful that you would take the chance to speak with us then, but also now. And I'm glad you're

safe, but also hope that things turn for you and that you're able to settle and feel like you're at home, even if you aren't at home. Issam, thank you very much. Thank you very much, Matt. Thank you. Take care of yourself. Thank you. Issam Hamad is an engineer and owner of a medical supply company in Gaza.

He and his family now live in Ireland.