The Current - Lorin MacDonald, Colin Clarke named to Order of Canada

Episode Date: January 8, 2025

Matt Galloway speaks with two incredible Canadians recently appointed to the Order of Canada. Lorin MacDonald has championed disability access and inclusion; and Colin Clarke is an educator who has shared his passion for music with young people. 

This message comes from Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on a Viking longship with thoughtful service, destination-focused dining, and cultural enrichment on board and on shore. With a variety of voyages and sailing dates to choose from, now is the time to explore Europe's waterways. Learn more at Viking.com. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. This week to kick off a new year, we have been meeting Canadians who have been named to the Order of Canada. Lauren MacDonald is being recognized as a disability leader. She's a lawyer, disability advocate, an educator, and a business person.

Lauren, good morning. Good morning, Matt. Congratulations. Thank you. What does this recognition mean to you? It's just so many things. I mean, it was never on my bingo card to get the Order of Canada, and it really hits you when you see the calibre of the Canadians recognized.

But on a personal level, it was gratifying to me to be one of the few recipients who have been appointed based on our disability and inclusion work. You're part of the class with with Ryan Reynolds as well. Indeed it was. Indeed it was. And I think that's kind of blown everyone's mind. So the citation from the governor general says that you were born with profound hearing loss. A human rights lawyer and educator championing disability awareness and inclusion, she introduced captioning to remove communication barriers in various academic, legal and theatrical

settings. Her personal journey and legal advocacy make her an inspirational role model. Tell me about the profound hearing loss that's cited there. You were born with that. I was. It was actually diagnosed when I was three in nursery school. This was in the mid-60s, very different time. Nursery school teacher said to my mom, I don't think your daughter can hear

because when she looks at me she follows instructions but when her back is turned she does not. And my mother said, well that can't be. And it was confirmed that I had been born with profound hearing loss in both ears, first on either side of the family. And it was a shock. How did that impact your childhood? What did that mean for you as a young person? For my parents being so young,

they just decided that I was going to be treated as if wearing a hearing aid was just the same as wearing glasses. It was a very honest attempt to normalize it, but unfortunately not true, because glasses are corrective, whereas hearing aids are not. And so, it was a lot of trying to help me acquire speech in non-traditional ways, so very heavily focused on reading. But in the background, what was swirling on is that my parents, particularly my mother

and my maternal grandmother, had to fight for me. So back then, when it was ready for me to start public school, they needed to get – my mother needed to get permission from the public health department to allow me – allow me to go to public school, as if deafness was somehow contagious. My family had already bucked the recommendation that I should be sent to a school for the deaf. And their view was, no, it's a hearing world, she's going to learn to live in it. Which was their choice for me.

It's not necessarily appropriate for all children. And so I didn't realize that these fights were going on behind me. I'm just a kid, but they were my first and fiercest advocates, and I learned well from them. It's a hearing world. What does that mean to you? For them, the recognition that if you do not fit into the world that is dominant in the

culture, you will be left behind. And all these decades later, it's still true that this is a world built for people who do not have disabilities. How do you navigate that world now? I mean, just even describe what we're doing. Yeah, it's just, I like to say I have a law degree, but I also have a degree in environmental engineering. Because whenever I go somewhere, for example, just take being in the studio with you. I had to check with the lights. Are they too bright?

Is there too much glare? Am I going to be able to see your face clearly? Will I be able to lip read? Do you have unfamiliar speech patterns that may be difficult for me to pick up for the first time? And so, I always have to navigate that as best I can. So that you can... I mean, right now, you're reading my lips so we can have that conversation. I'm lip reading you. Yeah.

Yeah. Impressive, huh? It is. No, I couldn't do that. It is impressive. It's fantastic. But you are, by virtue of being a radio host, you already enunciate very clearly. I would guess I don't... Thank you. Radio is not my jam. But so you're not chewing gum. You don't have your hand over your mouth to muffle your speech or anything like that.

Whereas for other folks, when I say what my communication needs are, because I have profound hearing loss, right away I get, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't know. And it's nothing to be sorry about. It's just a fact of life and this is what I need for communication. And I've been doing this a long time. So I'm pretty good at it. But also I get, oh, you don't look deaf, whatever that looks like. But that can be double-edged because the perception is that I hear far more than I do. It's tough because I am able to, quote, pass, end quote, but there are also times when I need to have that recognition and accommodation.

How much stigma still exists in this society when it comes to disabilities right now? You have said that in some ways this is the last frontier of inclusion. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, just take an example, the Accessibility for Ontarians with Disabilities Act. I was involved in working to get that passed. Back in 2005, I was in Wien Park and cried when the third reading of the bill passed unanimously. And it's just so hard because back then, we were inspired, we were hopeful hopeful 20 years to become a more accessible,

inclusive province, totally doable until it wasn't. And so, to me this shows, and I've seen it over and over, disability issues, accommodations, etc. are always at the end of the line, always at the end of the line. The intention may be good, yes, well, of course, we're committed to accessibility, but then priority shift, and it's back to the end of the line for us. So why in 2025, is it still acceptable

to be able to get into the restaurant, but not into the accessible washroom, if they can get into the restaurant at all. Or being told you have to go through the back door, through the back alley where the garbage is and whatever. Why is that still acceptable? One of the things you're being recognized for

is your work in tackling those barriers. Tell me a little bit about HearView. What is HearView? HearView is a play on words. It's hear, H-E-A-R, and then view with the capital V-U-E. So being able to hear and to be able to see. And so my thing has always been communication

inclusion, and it was born in 2019 because I have wanted to go to an event in Toronto where an internationally renowned human rights lawyer was speaking. And so of course, contact the organizers, may I have captioning? No. Well, how can I see I need to be able to lip read? Well, you just have to get a ticket at the front of the stage. And of course, those premium tickets are much more expensive if you can get a ticket at all. And I just decided, I decided that's it. I'm done. I am tired of constantly being

told, no, we can't have captioning. Nobody's asked for it, it's too expensive. We don't know how it works. It's too complicated, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I said, that's it. No, I'm not doing this anymore. And so my aha moment came when in June of 2019, I was reading a book, Michelle Obama's, and she said how it was okay to step back from being a lawyer in corporate practice

and do something that is more aligned with your values. And at that moment, I kid you not, I closed that book and I said, okay, you know, this is what I need to do. And Hereview was born You know, this is what I need to do. And Here View was born six weeks later. And I also said Michelle Obama is going to be my first guest. Well, that's, that's a big thing to get her as a guest. I'm trying to drop that in. Did you pick that up? How does it work?

How does Here View work? Well, I'm sorry. Can you repeat that question? How does Here View work? Okay. So I decided that what I would do is I would hire captioners, I would train the AV staff, I would support the organizers,

I would be on the ground, these were live events, all at no cost, all the organizers needed to say was yes. As the person is speaking, there is live captioning. Yep, there is. As I mentioned, Michelle Obama was the first event.

The promoter would determine absolutely not. People were saying, dream smaller. Like really, Michelle Obama? What are the odds? And I said, no. I clearly knew it was going to happen, had no idea how. This is the power of manifesting, if you believe in that. And 10 days before the event, I got the OK. And it was very successful. And then

we moved to smaller events. And everybody was blown away by it. And it was gaining traction. There were conversations with Oprah Winfrey. There were conversations with Live Nation for captions at the music venues. But my fatal flaw, Matt, was having a business plan that failed to factor in a global pandemic. And so I then shifted to promoting online digital inclusion because initially Zoom was not making the captions available unless you had a paid subscription. So I protested, as I do, and that was removed. But the other thing people need to recognize is that auto-generated captioning is far from accurate.

All you need to do is press the CC button on a YouTube video and you can see why I call it captioning for good reason. What have you learned from the work that you've done? That until people truly care and disability and accessibility is relevant and personal, nothing's going to change. So when you consider that 27% of Canadians identify with having one or more disabilities, when you factor in families, friends, co-workers, community, you're looking at over half of Canadians are impacted. So, the decision-makers need to be personally impacted by disability to

move the dial. Pete The Governor General says you are an inspirational role model. Are you comfortable with that? No. When people say invariably, oh, you're so inspiring, I say, well, thank you, but I'm just doing ordinary things with extraordinary difficulty. And the most important thing I say to them is, well, thank you for that, but I'm more interested in what I'm inspiring you to do. And I'm hoping that my appointment to the Order of Canada will inspire others to speak up, to speak out, recognizing though that when you do so, people aren't always going to cheer you on because you're challenging power. Nobody willingly gives up power. And so,

especially in the times that we have ahead of us, I'm hoping that we can continue to build a country where diversity truly is our strength and more accessible. Congratulations. It's a great pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much. I'm so delighted to have joined you this morning. Lauren MacDonald is a lawyer, disability advocate, and a new member of the Order of Canada. This message comes from Viking, committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on a Viking longship with thoughtful service, destination-focused dining and cultural enrichment on board and on shore.

With a variety of voyages and sailing dates to choose from, now is the time to explore Europe's waterways. Learn more at Viking.com. Essential reading for everyone, Health for All is the instant number one national bestseller by Jane Philpott, former Federal Minister of Health and Ontario lead on primary care. With over six million Canadians lacking basic health care, Philpott offers a prescription for a healthier society focusing on hope, belonging, and purpose.

Available in hardcover and audiobook, narrated by Jane Philpott. The Get a load of that. That's the Toronto Youth Wind Orchestra. Colin Clark is its founder and artistic director. He is also the artistic director of the Royal Conservatory of Music's Oscar Peterson Scholarship Program and conductor for the Oakville Symphony Youth Orchestra. He has led youth bands and orchestras across this country. And now he too is a member of the Order of Canada. His appointment recognizes him as a transformational educator who has made

learning and playing music accessible to underserved groups in the greater Toronto area, Colin Clark. Good morning. Good morning, Matt. Good to be here. You had a big smile on your face as you were listening to that. Yes, it's a little overwhelming, but it's a good life. Congratulations.

Thank you very much. What does it mean to be named to the Order of Canada? Wow, I am thrilled, of course, and humbled that a body like the Order of Canada and the Governor General's office would recognize someone like me. And by that I just mean someone who, I mean, I love my life, I love what I do, but I consider myself quite ordinary compared to some of the people who have bestowed this honor previous to me. Even your previous

interview, my goodness, Lauren does some amazing things. She does. So I think to myself, I mean, I think of my... Just this morning, I ate an egg salad sandwich and watched an episode of Ted Lasso. That's a very straightforward, not nearly worthy of the order of Canada, but so to consider myself in that realm with these people is this extraordinary. All right, so we're gonna pump your tires

over the next little bit. Oh great. How did you, I mean, people's path to what they do is always fascinating to me. How did you find yourself in the clutches of classical music? My parents are immigrants, they came from the Caribbean. They came to Canada in the late 60s,

and they were fascinated by television. It was a relatively new concept at that point in time. So my family and I, we watched a lot of television growing up, in a controlled, structured way, of course. But I was fascinated by the music in the stories. For the Flintstones, for example, the studio musicians behind that soundtrack, these are killer musicians.

I didn't really have the time, I just thought they were fun tunes. I saw a movie called The Wizard of Oz, and it was taken by the, and it was an annual thing for our family to get together as a family and watch The Wizard of Oz. There was no internet, there was no Netflix back then. So when it came on to television, we made a big event of that, and I sat down and watched that. I remember for years later, the music just inspired me. It was just wonderful. Then I saw this low budget film called Star Wars, came out back in the 70s. I'm not sure it did very well. But again, right from the very beginning, we all know that famous...

John Williams, it starts. Exactly, exactly. And that was my first introduction to, I think, orchestral music. And I just consumed that. Again, no internet, no whatever else, just where I could find classical music, including CBC, I would just listen to what I could. Then when I got to high school, I felt almost predisposed to music because I'd already had a love for certain songs that were in my head. I got to join a symphonic ensemble that would play like music, like 50, 60 piece concert bands or jazz band or we had a choir. And that was just revolutionary to me that people can get together and with combined effort make such

glorious things happen. We also listening to other music at the same time? Oh yeah, at the same time. I mean, I just wondered just because, I mean, as a teenager, everything is coming at you all at once. Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, my soundtrack was mostly hip hop, R&B, gangster rap. I listened to, I mean, DMs, run DMC. And then you ended up in this world.

Yeah, yeah. Well, for me, it was a combination of the two. I was very much into hip hop and me and my brothers and my friends loved that style of music. I mean, I used to, if you can believe it, I used to break dance in a team, a break dancing team back in the day. And at the same time, I go to band class and play my trumpet or my drums and whatnot. So it was two sides of the same coin for the longest time. And it was difficult for me to decide which side I belonged in. But for me, I mean, hip hop was my culture, my people, my heritage, the voice of people who looked like and had experiences like me.

But there's something about Beethoven, there's something about Brahms, there's something about John Williams that just kind of lured me to that level. So can I tell you a secret? I've always wanted to be a conductor. Really? I've always thought it would be to stand in front of an orchestra with a baton

and to have the orchestra there in front of you, kind of following you along. There's something that is seductive about it. What do you love about that? What do you love about being a conductor? Pete Slauson That's, we don't have enough time to say all things I love about the conductor. Being a conductor, let's just go straight basic. The idea that, you know, the music happens when I

will it to happen, that sounds rather arrogant, but it's my job as a conductor. Pete Slauson But it's true. Pete Slauson Yeah, you have a large ensemble. They have to have a center point in order for music to come together and stay together. So there's something about that that really drives me. But what fascinates me is the music that we create. And I'm standing in front of it and what's happening

in real time by humans who are just regular people. And we're making these extraordinary things. I think music is very special. I think music is very, very magical. So standing in front of an ensemble and getting to be a part of that magic is really exciting for me. Going deeper now, it's the fact that I work with a number of young people who at the beginning of our journey have no idea they can elevate themselves at that point of performance. So to hear them at the first rehearsal and then over a period of time grow to a point where they're in concert playing these amazing sounds, I mean, it's extraordinary for me to be a part of that and to watch these kids experience that. So there's

so many facets to what I do that I absolutely enjoy. What is that like to see that transformation? Because those kids, you'll be polite, but the kids at the beginning will make noise and at the end, they will make glorious noise, they will make music. What is it like to see that? Well, it's... I don't know if you can see the gray hairs on my head, but it's challenging because I know what they can accomplish. I wouldn't have picked the repertoire and given this time if I didn't think they could do it. But the first few rehearsals are always a bit of a cacophony of, as you say, noise.

And it's amazing. Actually, it's a fun story. I used to record the first rehearsal and not tell about it. I'd say, my iPhone just record the first rehearsal. And then the day before the performance, I play that recording for the kids and just say, this is where you were six weeks ago. This is how far you've come. Exactly. Exactly. When they hear that, they themselves go, wow, there's something empowering about music, but be able to work hard towards something, towards a goal, and see where, from whence you came, there's something really, really, again, magical about that. So the citation for the recognition from Rideau Hall, from the Governor General, says that

you are beloved by students, conductors and composers alike, and that you make learning and playing music accessible to underserved groups in the Greater Toronto area. Tell me about that mission of making sure that music is accessible to all. And you do this through the Oskar Peterson Program. Absolutely. The Oskar Peterson Program, thank you for bringing it up, the Oskar Peterson Program is, I mean, my three orchestras are very special to me, very special. The Oscar-Pegasus Orchestra provides an opportunity for kids from underrepresented communities who don't have the chance or the resources

to play in an organized setting like this. Many of them don't have, have never played in an orchestra before. Many of them aren't even in school programs. They just, they're on their own doing their own thing. In fact, when we did the first set, when we first opened the program, this is a great story, there's one young lady who wanted to join the program as a piano player, but she never had, she's not a piano. She used to play on her iPhone or Android, whatever else. So, you had to do a video audition. So, what she did, she went to Longham-Aquade and hid in the keyboard department. In the music store.

In the music store. She didn't have to be at home, so she went to the music store, set up her iPhone just kind of quietly. In the recording of her audition video, you can hear like pages like, you know, band music line one or saxophone line two, and she's doing her audition in Longham-Aquade. That's an amazing story. And those are the kind of kids that we have at the program. Of course, some of them have, like, you know, they have, you know, good background, they have good experience, but a lot of them, when they first walk through the Royal Conservatory of Music,

you can see their eyes widened, that sense of, I don't even belong here. And then when they realize that they have just as much role there as I do, there's something that's extraordinary about that. So it's a very special place for for me and I enjoy working with these kids who are doing amazing things and it's just a... And that's different from the Toronto Youth Wind Orchestra and the Oakville Symphony Youth Orchestra in the sense that those other two orchestras, they gravitate musicians, they draw musicians who already have experience, who already have lessons, who have the means for private lessons, and they already have a skill set so they can match my level of requirements for the ensembles. The Conservatory of Music program, the Oscar Pearson program, it's open to all kids.

We do have an emphasis towards BIPOC kids, but it's open to all kids. But it's not about your level of play, it's about like, you know, who you are, the potential we think you have in you, and we're going to try and build that potential, pull that potential through you, out of you. What do you hear from students that you have worked with in the past? Kids who, you've been doing this for a minute, so kids who perhaps have gone through one of these programs, and then they go off into the universe, and then they get back in touch with you. What do you hear from them? Well, oh boy. When the announcement was made, I had Facebook messages.

One of my students said, you're blowing up on Instagram. And she had to sit me down explaining what Instagram was first. So after that conversation, I got to recognize that there are people from all over the world who were writing to me and just saying, thank you for the experiences. Thank you for helping me get to where I am. This is the bit about being beloved by students. Well, that's a... me and just saying, thank you for the experiences, thank you for helping me to get to where I am. This is the bit about being beloved by students. A transformational educator.

Who wrote that? Somebody who knows. Well, it means a lot. It means a lot because again, the lens from which I look at my life is I do the things that I love and what I love to do is make music. So I go to rehearsals and you don't think of yourself as inspirational, you don't think of yourself as this may change someone's life. All I'm thinking is we have to get to the second movement

before the break and, you know, because we have a concert in four weeks or whatever. And I emulate my high school band teacher where I try to interject humor into rehearsals. So kids know that music is fun, it's supposed to be fun. But you get stories from people who are living, you know, all over Canada, all over the world, and saying, hi, I remember you back in, you know, 1994 when, you know, we were doing this and you were fun to work with and, or, you know, whatever else. There are musicians who play in the Toronto

Wind Orchestra who are now in the Toronto Symphony, who are now in the Calvary Philharmonic, and to have had a part in their path to realize what they can do with themselves. I'm not the reason why they're in the TSO or whatever else, but I was part of the path of getting there and that means so much to me. So when they write to me years later and say, thank you, it's so overwhelmingly, I mean, I'm a very blessed man. It's such a beautiful, beautiful feeling. You are one of the reasons why, certainly.

I'm going to tell us about one thing that you're excited about that you have coming up. Ooh, I have several exciting things coming up. Um, okay. As quickly as I can, uh, the Toronto Twin Orchestra is inviting a, a composer, uh, to Canada, to Toronto to work with them on a new piece they're doing, uh, in May.

It's a piece called Dope. And, uh, this young composer, Katachi Copley, he emulates me in the sense that he is a young black, well, he's young, I'm old, but he's a black artist who grew up with the dichotomy of hip hop music and jazz music and classical music. So he wrote a 20 minute piece that combines all of it, all of his love into one big symphonic work, which we're going to do in May with the composer presence. That's really exciting. My orchestra at the Royal Conservatory of Music, they're just getting better. So I'm excited about giving them new music that they've never seen before. I'm

looking forward to seeing their eyes when they go, I can't do this. And then I'll record that recording. Don't tell them I'll do that. I'm going to record that rehearsal and then watch them exceed something just extraordinary, bond with it that they can do. And then finally, the Oakville Symphony Youth Orchestra is taking a tour to New York City. We're performing at Carnegie Hall in April. It's a small little place. Yeah, yeah, little theater somewhere out, you know, off Broadway. So that's fun. Your kids that you work with are lucky to have you. You're a force of nature.

I'm the lucky one. No, no. I'm the lucky one. Congratulations. Thank you very much, nature. Oh, I'm the lucky one. No, no. I'm the lucky one. Congratulations. Thank you very much, sir. What a real pleasure to meet you. Likewise, sir.

Colin Clark is a new appointee to the Order of Canada for his contributions to music education and youth orchestras. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.