The Current - Minister Anita Anand isn't going to "hide under a rock"

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs joins Matt Galloway as the G7 foreign ministers meeting gets underway in Ontario's Niagara region. She defends Canada's approach to relations with the U.S. and policy of engagement with countries like India and China.

You may have heard of the sex cult nexium and the famous actress who went to prison for her involvement, Alison Mack. But she's never told her side of the story, until now. People assume that I'm like this pervert. My name is Natalie Robamed, and in my new podcast, I talked to Alison to try to understand how she went from TV actor to cult member and what she thinks of it all now. How do you feel about having been involved in bringing sexual trauma at other people? I mean, I don't even know how to answer that question. Alison, after Nexium from CBC's On Cover, is available now, wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast.

Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Today, Ontario's Niagara region is the site of a high-level summit. G7 foreign ministers are in this country for talks, along with representatives from several outreach countries, including India and Saudi Arabia. It is also the U.S. Secretary of States' first visit to Canada since trade talks between R.T. nations broke down, playing host as Canada's foreign affairs minister, Anita Anand, I spoke with her yesterday. This summit is happening while trade talks with the United States are not happening. What is your government doing to try to get those talks back on the rails? So the file on U.S. trade is being led by Minister Dominic LeBlanc. Let's just say that we are

without question ready to resume negotiations. But at the same, time. We are hosting 15 foreign ministers coming from around the world to the Great White North. And we will have a range of issues on the table from Arctic security to Ukraine, to peace in the Middle East, to energy security and critical minerals. So in this time of geopolitical volatility, Canada is a leader. And we believe strongly in collaboration and cooperation globally. So this G7 summit allows us to, in fact, exemplify our leadership on the world stage with, as I said, 15 foreign ministers, which is significant.

I think it's worth mentioning just in the context of that. I mean, the relations between our two countries, Canada and the United States, remain in this, you know, frozen, rocky sort of state in some ways. When Mark Carney took over his prime minister, he said that we were going to negotiate some sort of comprehensive trade and security relationship with the United States. That hasn't happened. In fact, what's happened is you were at this party a couple of weeks ago where the U.S. ambassador was heard cursing out an Ontario trade official. What's gone wrong with our relationship? As I mentioned, the trade relationship rests with Minister LeBlanc.

Okay, what about more broadly? Just the relationship between Canada and the United States. I mean, when you have an ambassador who cusses out an Ontario official, that suggests that something perhaps has gone sideways. What is the state of that relationship between Canada and the United States? Yeah, I was just going to say that the relationship is not dormant. In fact, I am in constant communication with my counterpart, Secretary Rubio. We are collaborating across a range of issues.

I met with him most recently at the end of September. We are collaborating on Ukraine, on the Middle East, and the implementation of the peace plan, on Haiti and regional stability there. So in any relationship, any complex relationship especially, there are going to be areas where you see movement more than others. And my job as foreign minister is to move the areas where we can cooperate and discuss. But I want to stress that Secretary Rubio and I share a collaborative, collegial relationship, and that continues. Therefore, the idea that the relationship has been more abundant is simply untrue. The Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, wants to see Canada fight back harder against the United States. Would your government take his advice?

We as the federal government are taking the effort needed to represent all concerns across this country in the negotiations not only with the United States, but with several partners and trading relationships across the world. We need to double down on our trading relationships now and make sure that they are, delivering results for Canada. I want to talk about some of those broader relationships, but one of the things you're going to be doing, you're heading to Greenland. Is this correct, to open a Canadian consulate in Nook?

Yes, that's exactly right. As soon as the G7 ministers meeting wraps up, I will be traveling to Nook, Greenland, to open a Canadian consulate there, and that is part of our Arctic strategy. I will say that ensuring that Canada's defense, protection of the Arctic is central to our domestic and foreign policy, was voiced in the recent budget.

We're putting significant funding down for defense and security, and the way that has traction internationally is to open this consulate in Nook and make sure that other Arctic countries with whom we cooperate, know that Canada is a reliable multilateral partner in terms of Arctic security also. Donald Trump is still talking about taking control of Greenland. Do you worry that opening a consulate like this could further antagonize the U.S. President? Well, listen, my conversations with Marco Rubio have been about the importance of Arctic security. In fact, he agrees with me that NATO should have a role not only that looks eastward, but also that looks northward.

It is, after all, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. I've raised this issue with Secretary Ruta, the Secretary General of NATO, who also agrees. I've also raised it with the Nordic Five, and they agree, too, that NATO has to have a northern focus. And so this is part of the advocacy that I'll be doing with G7 ministers this week, but it is also part and parcel of ensuring that our most,

multilateral relationships yield benefits for Canada as a country. You have invited to this meeting as part of this outreach strategy. A couple of interesting nations, India, for example. You recently traveled to India to meet with your counterpart there, taking on, in your words, calibrated measures to restore stability in the relationship between our two nations. Canada previously accused Indian government officials of being involved in a murder of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil? What gives you the confidence that something like that is not going to

happen again? Matt, I just want to stress that we have seven outreach partners. India is one of them. We are also inviting and they'll be attending Mexico and Brazil and the Republic of Korea and Ukraine, among others. So the conversation that we are having at the table that the G7 Foreign Minister Summit is multilaterally. What can we do together to advance key issues relating to global security and the global economy, as well as the peace process in the Middle East? Now, to your question about India specifically, I ensure that at every turn I am raising as the main priority the safety and security of Canadian citizens.

That means that our dialogue on safety and security, on law enforcement between senior officials of our government and the government of India will continue. That means that the work that we will do for domestic protection will continue, including listing of the Bishnoi And I want to stress that the rule of law means that the work in the political sphere is separate and distinct from law enforcement writ large. And while the investigation of the RCMP continues Canada, and indeed the government of Canada doesn't play a role in that investigation. I guess the question is whether Canada can have a relationship with a country that has been accused of violence.

violating Canadian sovereignty and assassinating through government officials assassinating Canadian citizen. This is a fair point, and we are taking the relationship step by step to ensure that we are stressing the importance of public safety and security in the interests of all Canadian citizens, first and foremost. We issued a joint statement with India just a few weeks ago. And in that statement, if you take a look at the wording, the entire first page is dedicated to public safety and security and this law enforcement dialogue. In addition, we will have a conversation recognizing the importance of public safety with a number of other countries

relating to diversifying supply chains. But we will take this relationship step by step. It will be systematic and it will not occur unless we can ensure that this public safety dialogue continues. In the meantime, Canadian sick activists are still apparently getting warnings from the RCMP that their lives are in danger. Are you confident that those threats aren't being directed from inside the Indian government? Again, we have a law enforcement dialogue with the Indian government where all issues are raised. And that dialogue includes the highest officials. From our side, it's the head of the National Security and Intelligence Council. So let's just say this is not an issue that we are taking lightly at all. On the contrary, we will make sure that the interests of public

safety and security are front and center at all turns. When Justin Trudeau was the Prime Minister, Canada released this Indo-Pacific strategy and pledged that our engagement with countries in the region would be consistent with our values. That was the phrase that was used, that they would be consistent with our values. As you see, and you've hinted at this, you know, we're in a different world right now. The global order has changed. Are we going to have to make compromises on that, do you think? Bringing the 15 foreign ministers to our country is an opportunity for us as a country to show, that Canada is a leader multilaterally and will cooperate and collaborate on a number of issues.

When I gave my speech at the United Nations in September, I stressed the importance of a number of issues for Canada at this moment time, under a new government with a new foreign policy and a new prime minister. And that means that we will stress defense and security at home and abroad. that means we will stress economic resilience, and that means we will stress our core values, many of which include human rights, environmental sustainability, and multilateralism writ large. So foreign affairs is multifaceted. It involves many different considerations, and I listed three of the main ones for you. I need to let you go, I know, but I just wonder whether when you are looking at, you know, engaging with Saudi Arabia or you were just

in China, for example, or we're talking about India, whether that's going to be a stress test for what those values are. The fact that we engage with countries doesn't mean that we don't raise human rights issues. On the contrary, in order to raise those issues, we need to have a forum in which the dialogue can occur. My approach to diplomacy, indeed our approach. to diplomacy is to ensure that we have a line of communication with countries so that we can raise the issues of concern to Canadians. The way diplomacy is done is not to go and hide under

a rock and pretend that issues don't exist. It is to step up and fight for the values that Canadians hold dear, and that's exactly what I'm doing. Anita Anand, good to speak with you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Matt. Take good care. Anita Anand is Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs. I spoke with her late yesterday morning. I've covered a lot of K-pop stories in my time as a Korean journalist, but this one is different. All I need is one person to believe in me.

All I need is one person to think I have something. Because Katie Zito isn't a famous K-pop idol. That's what she wants to be. Can she do it in just three months at one of Seoul's grueling K-pop academies? From USG audio and novel, listen to Mission K-pop, available now. Roland Parris is director of the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa. Roland, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt.

As Canada welcomes foreign ministers from around the world, has this liberal government, as you understand, it presented a clear strategy for its foreign policy? Well, it hasn't issued a foreign policy strategy per se, but, and, And it promised one, or at least Mark Carney did when he was running for office. But Carney has made his priorities really crystal clear. Number one is, in terms of foreign policy, is managing the relationship with the United States. Number two is simultaneously reducing our dependence on the United States by diversifying our trade partnerships. And number three is reinvesting in Canada's security and defense capabilities so that we can be ready.

to deal with a more dangerous world and be a more useful collaborator in NATO and NORAD and our other alliance commitments. Let me ask you just briefly about the United States. I mean, we just heard Anita Anand sounding quite keen to hand that hot potato over to Dominic LeBlanc. But what are you going to be looking for between, you know, her conversations with the U.S. Secretary of State, Marco Rubio. Well, I think that she's indicated in her interview with you and in other interviews that really that it's not her file, and I don't think it's just buck passing. I think that it's true that the file is owned by Dominic LeBlanc and the prime minister's office itself. I think that what we should be looking for is a resumption of the discussions that were suspended. I expect that there will

be a resumption of these discussions eventually, not least because we're heading into a review, a mandated review of the Kuzma or USMCA, the Free Trade Deal, North America, American Free Trade Deal. And a lot of these issues are going to be arising during those discussions as well. And the Prime Minister repeats that, you know, most of Canadian trade is not subject to tariffs. And it's true. It's about, you know, different measures, 85 percent because it fall, it's compliant with the existing Kuzma. But there's no guarantee that that Kuzma continues. And it's very likely the United States will be making very significant demands in that context. So I expect we're going have seen negotiations for a fairly long time here.

And as those negotiations continue, to your point, the government is looking at broadening trade relations with other nations. We just heard the minister say that she wants as many trade relationships as possible. Representatives from countries like India, Saudi Arabia will be part of these meetings. What do you think the government wants from India and Saudi Arabia? Well, I think, first of all, for even if we include China in that mix, it wants to reestablish high-level dialogue. especially with India and China.

And we heard news overnight that the Chinese government has told India and that it will enhance diplomatic ties. Yeah, so this is all coming out of the meeting between Mark Carney and Xi Jinping. It was the first meeting of Canadian and Chinese leaders since 2017. So, you know, in the first instance, I think what the government's seeking to do is reestablish high-level dialogue so it's possible to have conversations. and that is a good thing in and of itself, regardless of the state of the relationship, we need to have communication with the Chinese and also with the Indians that we've had

very difficult relationships with. I think longer term that I think that the government wants to explore deepening opportunities for Canadian trade exports, but, you know, needs to be careful because these are complicated relationships. China in particular will use any dependence that Canada has on China as a potential point of leverage or pressure on Canada. We need to be very mindful of that. And, you know, India allegedly crossed an incredibly bright red line in, you know, allegedly being involved in the assassination of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil. So this is a complicated world. And if we just

want to trade with countries that, you know, are reliable liberal democracies, we're not going to be trading with very many countries. But on the other hand, there are red lines. And we need to know where they are. Where does that leave? Just, we just have a couple of minutes left. Where does that leave that issue of values that I raised with India, with Anita Anand? If you're talking about India, for example, and to your point, there's that red line that's been crossed, Saudi Arabia, putting one of its own citizens through a bone saw and its consulates. You have China snatching Canadian citizens off the streets and putting them in jail. What do we do about the values question there, if we need those relationships as well?

Well, there's always been a mix of values and interests in our foreign policy. And in fact, some of the scenarios you describe, like picking up Canadian citizens, that's a value. You know, don't pick up people in an arbitrary manner. But we have a very strong interest in protecting Canadian citizens. And, you know, we'll see where this government ends up. Mark Carney himself hasn't talked a lot about the foreign policy beyond the issue of trade and security. Anita Anand has talked about other issues like human rights, climate change, and the like. as she did in a big speech at the UN. But in fact, in the budget, there's a ton of more money for the Department of National Defense, but Global Affairs Canada is being cut and the aid budget is being cut by $2.7 billion over four years.

So it's not clear where this government ends up when it comes to the elements of foreign policy that aren't directly trade and security related. It speaks to the need to your point of a specific foreign policy strategy. and that has been promised but has yet to be to be articulated. That's right. And I think, you know, we haven't seen a foreign policy strategy for a very long time in this country. We don't necessarily need a formal strategy if the strategy is being articulated in other ways through speeches, through the actions of government. But, you know, at this point, because there is this question mark about, well, what's the rest of our foreign policy look like? The other reason to have the strategy is to be able to identify where are the areas that are going to be resourced, because if this is a much more complicated world and we're trying to navigate complicated relationships and build new ones, we need all the elements of our international policy, including our foreign service, to be adequately resourced. It is good to speak with you about this, as always, Roland. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Roland Paris is director of the Graduate School of Public and International Affairs at the University of Ottawa. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.