The Current - Mr Carney goes to Mexico

Episode Date: September 17, 2025

Prime Minister Mark Carney is off to Mexico this week to talk trade with Mexican President Claudia Sheinbaum. Why his agenda likely includes repairing strained ties. And what he has to do to grow trade between the two companies. Trade expert Carlo Dade, director of international policy at the New North America Initiative at the School of Public Policy at the University of Calgary, joins us to talk about Carney's to-do list.

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. At the G7 Summit in Canaanascus, Alberta in June, the president of Mexico, Claudia Shanebaum, handed Prime Minister Mark Carney, an intricately beated soccer ball. This is wonderful, and this is an area where Mexico, Canada, and our third co-host, the other president,

we are totally aligned in our, excitement, enthusiasm for the beautiful game and co-hosting in a sign of friendship. So thank you very much. This is wonderful. I'm going to put it right here. Next year, Canada, Mexico, and the United States are hosting the Men's World Cup. It is an exercise in North American cooperation. At a time when trilateral relations on the continent are seismically shifting. Tomorrow, Prime Minister Carney heads to Mexico to meet with Claudia Shanebaum and talk trade. The goal is to shore up strained relations and strengthen ties between the two countries in the wake of U.S. President Donald Trump's trade war.

Carlo Dade is director of international policy and the new North America initiative at the School of Public Policy at the University of Calgary. Carlo, good morning. Good morning, man. Good, you have you back on the program. How would you describe at this moment the relationship between Mexico and Canada? It's been, as it has been historically, there are periods of mild highs and mild lows. So the relationship continues along and a period of benign neglect, neither troubled nor really achieving its full potential. We're in one of those periods of benign neglect, but we're reactivating the relationship in the face of a pressing need that both countries have to deal with Donald Trump. So the trip is to make sure that things are okay as we gear up for another round of negotiating with Trump.

Some people have suggested that the trip is also just about damage repair. Last year, the Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford and the Premier of Alberta, Danielle Smith, and the then Deputy Prime Minister, Christy Freeland, all called for a trade deal with the United States that would cut out Mexico. There were claims that Mexico was undercutting Canadian workers, kind of being a backdoor for Chinese imports. Doug Ford said, and these are his words, to compare us to Mexico is the most insulting thing I've ever heard. So how much damage does the Prime Minister have to repair? Well, he's in luck that Daniel Smith beat him to Mexico by a bit. And she already started the damage repair.

Unfortunately, we have Doug Ford still running around. But no, this is also historic. Canada, Canadians, governments, elected officials, not bureaucrats, tend to forget the importance of the relationship, how Mexico bailed us out during the last negotiations with Donald Trump over a North America agreement. So this is, again, historic. My take is, you know, I'm a member of the Mexican Council of Foreign Relations. And we joke that, you know, Canada just does this. So I think the Mexicans were hurt. You just said Canada just does this?

Yes. The Mexicans were hurt, but they weren't entirely surprised that elected officials in Canada, I think, would do this. We have a track record, at least on the elected side, of forgetting the importance of the relationship. That is so much facetious, but it does describe the nature of the relationship. There is that given. How important is that relationship? hugely important, especially in the face of dealing with the Trump administration. I just mentioned that during the NAFTA negotiations, Mexico bailed us out. You may remember that CBC ran a story back in August during the negotiations headline. Trump announces deal with Mexico. We'll see if Canada can join. Canadians thought that Mexico threw us under the bus, but the reality was Mexico had been to the back door, quietly informed. us of their negotiations with the U.S., we were totally prepared when Trump made the announcement

and we were able to salvage the situation, steal an aluminum tariffs. Mexico managed to reach an agreement with the U.S. and the Mexican negotiator contacted Christia Friedland to advise her and prepare her to get the same deal out of the Trump administration. So time and again, even though we are frenemies on some issues, like genetically modified corn, potentially all those. In and out, at the end of the day, give and take everything, Mexico has been an invaluable ally, and especially, especially last time we were dealing with Trump. Mexico now has this 90-day tariff reprieve from President Trump. I mean, they're still facing what the fentanyl tariffs, as he calls them, of 25 percent. They're facing tariffs

on cars. They're facing tariffs on steel and aluminum and copper. But there is this 90-day window that Canada doesn't have, that Mexico does have. What do you make of how President Chainbaum has approached relations with Donald Trump this time around? She's been more adroit than have the Canadians than have we in dealing with it. The Mexicans are used to a more antagonistic relationship with the U.S. Again, there are ups and downs, periods of sharp disagreement, but they're used to things being a bit sharper. So they didn't, I would say, this may not be the correct word, but overreact. to the provocations of Donald Trump. Elbows up wasn't a Mexican slogan. They didn't take

the bait when Trump tried to troll them with things like, as we did with the 51st state. So I think they've managed to stay under the radar a bit more. And also, I think Trump is trying to send a signal to Canada that, you know, if you adopt more of a Mexican approach, a bit quieter, not engaging, you'll do a bit better. He's also trying to divide, divide and conquer is Trump's favor, negotiating tactic, and giving something to Mexico and not giving it to us is certainly in line with this modus operandi. So for the prime minister going down to Mexico City, I mean, what would you want to see from

him that would show that he and his government take this relationship with Mexico seriously? somewhat facetious. I want to see him do as well as Daniel Smith did when she went down. Her trip was great. All my colleagues in Mexico are saying spoke to the right people, said the right things publicly. It went back to repairing some of the damage from her earlier comments. I think that that's what we want to see. No news is good news in this case. And again, what we don't want to see is a statement of unity. lining up against Donald Trump. I was going to say, do you worry? I mean, you say no news is good news. But if there is a closer relationship between Canada and Mexico, that that could set off the U.S. president? Exactly.

First rule of fight club is, don't talk about fight club. So as we work together and as we strengthen the relationship, we don't want to wave that red flag in front of Donald Trump. But conversely, the public doesn't see this. So the public tends to not appreciate the relationship, not understand the importance, and then you get unfortunate comments like what Premier Smith and Premier Ford said. So it's a dual-edged slower. It's hard to balance keeping the public informed without triggering Donald Trump and the Americans. Are there specifics, just briefly, are there specifics in terms of an opportunity to grow trade and build ties between our two nations? there's a huge opportunity and it's not the one people first think about in north

america it's around the pacific canada and mexico are both members of the uh trans pacific trade agreement the huge agreement including japan singapore australia etc etc we could combine take our combined production that we use for north america and we could turn around and use that to access markets in the indipacific more competitive the Americans can't do that. It's an advantage that we have that we share in being able to access the U.S. market that if we ever turned our attention to it or thought about it or put some effort into it, we should be able to leverage to make ourselves more competitive in the end of Pacific. But we just haven't done that. We just haven't thought about it. How important are these conversations when you take a look at the Canada, U.S.-Mexico Agreement, Kuzma, which has tied these three countries together since 2020, NAFTA before that. for a negotiation. The U.S. ambassador quoted in the Globe and Mail this morning saying that the U.S. was hoping that it wouldn't just renegotiate Kuzma, but take it to become something

much bigger, perhaps involving defense or other issues as well. How important is it that we have an ally in Mexico when we go, we as Canada, go into the renegotiations of this huge trade deal? In certain issues, it's important. Economics, agricultural policy. We both have our separate issues with the U.S., obviously the auto industry, looking at dealing with China, which will come up in the, it will come up in every dealing with the Americans and certainly in negotiation. But there are issues where we don't deal with Mexico. Defense. Mexico is largely out of the defense conversation.

So in those issues where interest overlap, there is generally benefit to having Mexico. But again, genetically modified corn. We agree with the Americans, not the. Mexican. So you've got to really go issue by issue. Do you think there's a future for Kuzma? People are concerned that Donald Trump, as Donald Trump does, may decide, you know, laterally that this is not in the best interest of the United States. Have me back on in six months. I'll be able to answer that. He is not looking into his crystal ball for predictions. We will set it in the calendar and we'll call you back. Carla, good to speak with you. Thank you very much.

Always a pleasure, Matt. Carla Day, Director of International Policy and the new North America Initiative, the School of Public Policy, at the University of Calgary, Alberta. This has been the current podcast. You can hear our show Monday to Friday on CBC Radio 1 at 8.30 a.m. at all time zones. You can also listen online at cbc.ca.ca slash the current or on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.