The Current - NDP’s new leader, Avi Lewis, lays out the road ahead

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Newly elected federal NDP leader Avi Lewis lays out the steep climb ahead for the federal NDP and the new vision endorsed by party members this weekend.

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This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. The federal NDP has a new leader. Avi Lewis, 39,734 votes. Please welcome the new leader of Canada's NDP, Le Nouveau-NPD, Avi Lewis. The to-do list for Avi Lewis is long. Rebuild a party that lost official status in the House of Commons

and is down to six seats following the latest floor crossing. Connect with more voters who, by and large, have signaled a shift to the center, at least in the last federal election, repair relations with provincial new Democrats who have distanced themselves from the federal party and win a seat in the House himself. Avi Lewis, new leader of Canada's NDP is in our Winnipeg studio. Avi, good morning.

Good morning, Matt. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I actually have to go. That to do-do list was too long. I don't have time for this. If winning was the easy part, take a look at that to-do list. How heavy is the lift?

Winning is not the easy part. It never is the easy part. This campaign was seven months long and we crisscrossed the country and had honestly a thrilling experience in community after community, sobering to be with Canadians in this incredibly hard time when people are struggling. But you have a lot of work to do now. Sure. I mean, this is a party that is.

that is at a crossroads. But we are all at a crossroads in Canada and around the world today, so it feels fitting in a way. Let's talk about where your party's at. Abacus data polled 1,500 Canadians found that less than a third of them feel positive about the NDP.

The Angus Reed Institute surveyed over a thousand previous NDP voters, people who had voted for your party, and they found a quarter of them feel that the NDP is irrelevant. Why do you think the party lost so much support across this country? Well, the last election was a unique one. And, you know, there was a wave of fear that crossed the country. I was campaigning hard in Vancouver Center and knocked, our team knocked more than 50,000 doors in that election and had a real sense of where people were at and people were scared. And the threat of Trump was on everybody's mind. And that shaped the election result in a big way. And since then, we've just had a cascade of world-changing events day after day after day.

And I think that, you know, we haven't been on people's radar because there's been a lot on the plate. And I think this is our moment to start entering the conversation again. Do you think the party propping up the liberals when the party was led by Jugmeet Singh was a mistake? No, it was not a mistake. There are nine million Canadians who have access to dental care who never had it before. I guess the question is a GAB legislation that we'd never had before. We paid for it, Matt. We didn't.

And that is a structural problem with our first past. the post system. My grandpa David brought Pierre Trudeau to a minority in 1972, had an extremely fruitful two-year minority parliament where they created a national energy company Petrocan and the first campaign finance laws and all kinds of good extensions to the welfare state. And then he lost his own seat in 74 and the party was wiped out. This is a problem with our structural political setup. And no NDP leader has figured out how to crack that. But we got. Medicare the same way. So it's a problem, but it's a problem for the party. And we've got to resolve it. During the last election, it's interesting. There are a lot of voters who perhaps normally would have

voted NDP who didn't. And many of them went through the conservatives. We were in, in Oshawa, talking with auto workers. They felt that the party didn't understand their concerns. The party lost union workers in Windsor, in British Columbia as well. Why do you think the party lost those those workers? I think it's a it's well I mean when we understand when we really understand why then we'll then we'll have it all what's your sense I think this is part of a trend of not just in Canada not just with the NDP but around the world where the rise of the populist right has been expert at harvesting the legitimate rage of working class people at the just the grinding unfairness of our economy and of daily life,

where people are working harder and harder and falling further and further behind while they watch fountains of wealth accumulate at the top. And the right in many, many countries, has been expert at harnessing that rage, directing it downwards to punch down at immigrants largely around the world, but also other marginalized groups. But when those auto workers said that they didn't think

the NDP understood their lot in life, what does that tell you? I mean, what I'm saying is, that I think that the conservative movement has responded to that anger, but it doesn't offer solutions. And the NDP, I think, may have been a little too polite in this period in not actually validating and recognizing how legit it is for people to be furious. I think we shied away from that. I also think there's a communication style that the party drifted into, which was, I think, a little bit too crafted, a little bit too attempting to not offend anybody and ended up with a situation

where in some cases people didn't know what we stood for. And that's why on our campaign, we've leaned a little more into the straight talk, although that might be a reflection of the fact that I kind of suck at Weaselworts, not just not a skill I've developed. Well, people certainly know where you stand on things like oil and gas. Thank you for seeing that, Matt. Well, I think it's clear. I mean, you have said that you want an end to oil and gas production. You want no more pipelines. No, no, no, no. That's simply not true. You've called for an end to new oil and gas production.

Oh, thank you for, yes, it is no longer a time to expand oil and gas production. Nobody has ever talked about shutting it down tomorrow. That's a mischaracterization, a bad faith one, which is unfortunately prevalent and largely suits the industry and doesn't help the workers in that industry who need help. Why do you think Canadians would support that vision? In the last election, what, 85% of the votes were cast? for liberals and conservatives parties that are not backing down from an expansion of oil and gas. And there's polling that suggests that a majority of Canadians polled, 62% according to abacus data,

support a new pipeline from Alberta to BC. I mean, Canadians are scared, and we're looking for ways to make our economy more independent, more secure, more stable, less disruptive, and less unfair. And the political class across the country, particularly Prime Minister Carney and in the dynamic with Alberta, has emphasized new pipelines. The effect, you know, oil and gas workers understand better than anyone the perils of the boom and bus cycle. And if you look around the world in this moment of war and the price shock for oil, I mean, filling up your car is a disaster. or gas over two bucks a liter and it's going to drive another inflation crisis

the cost of living is already out of control this new polling that a majority of Canadians are skipping meals or are cutting back on food consumption because they can't afford it or using credit to buy food I mean this is being driven as the last

inflation crisis was by the skyrocketing price of oil and the instability meanwhile the industry is looking forward to tens of billions of dollars of new profit. And I want to say particularly for oil and gas workers, nobody should ever lose their job without an alternative waiting. And the plan has always been to begin a generational transition, which we all know we need to make off of this destabilizing force,

which is destabilizing our economy, destabilizing geopolitics, and destabilizing all of those regions. But as you know, it's not just... But to build the new good jobs first. because you can't feed your family on a slogan or transition into into an idea or a promise. We need a new generation of good union jobs for those workers to transition into. And that's been the focus of our work around just transition for years and years and years now. But as you know, it's not just Mark Carney that's talking about this.

You were in the middle of your speech yesterday. And I had then she put out a statement that begins, it is clear the direction of the federal party under this new leader, someone who openly cheered for the defeat of the Alberta NDP government is not in the interests of Alberta. Now, Hatt Nenshi. Yeah,

well, Matt, I've never cheered for the defeat of the notly government. I think part of it, he's referring to the video that came out, what, from several years ago, of view. That was a lot of context. And yes. Laughing about Shannon Phillips, the former environment minister.

I understand that was a lighthearted video from years ago. Um, the point is that the notly government, we have this fundamental difference on whether or not we should be building an economy that's going to take. take care of those oil and gas workers for the future. He says that his party is a government in waiting and that he worries that your stance will undermine his attempt to challenge Daniel Smith in the next door.

Do you worry about that? Well, first of all, I passionately want Nahed Nihed Nihed Neshi to be the next premier of Alberta. I think the Daniel Smith government is incredibly damaging for privatizing health care, invoking the notwithstanding clause, attacking workers' rights. Do you think his stance on oil and gas torpedoes his attempt to do that? Absolutely not. And I think that, and I also want to see Carla Beck elected in Saskatchewan. Look.

She said she wouldn't meet with you until you reverse your position on oil and gas. She said that your position is ideological and unrealistic. So first of all, it is not my position. It is a position that was embraced and voted for by a huge majority, the largest ever majority in an NDP leadership race, we've been really clear about these positions, and we're focusing on this one, Matt, but there are many others. Our solutions to the cost of living crisis was where we spent most of our time in the campaign. And we got a massive mandate from federal NDPERS across the country on a vision that was clear from the day that our first campaign video dropped September 18th or 19th,

that we need a transition to a more stable and secure a calmer economy. I guess the question is. Can I let me just say this? In the past 10 years, the oil and gas industry in Canada, has figured out how to make a barrel of oil with 45% fewer workers. So it's very convenient for the industry, which has made tens of billions of dollars

while throwing workers under the bus. And it does so without any hesitation when the bust comes. The biggest enemy to those jobs right now is the automation of the industry itself. I guess the question is important in part because people are trying to figure it, and we are limited in time,

but people are trying to figure out whether those provincial parties, which have been successful in Alberta, in Saskatchewan, in British Columbia. I know it's exciting. There are governments in waiting. But whether they have a place under the federal NDP umbrella, given their stance on resource development.

So we love and support our provincial sections. I met for an hour with Rob Canoe, with whom I also have this disagreement, and we have different visions of energy development. And yet we have a very collegial relationship. We spent a happy hour together. He was on stage with me and said very kind things afterwards because Wob is confident in his overall offer and understands that for generations in every big tent party in Canada, especially the NDP because we're affiliated provincially and federally. We have democratic disagreements.

The fact that we're having these debates within the party is a good sign. Our party is growing. And it's a very healthy democratic process to be able to work together. on the fundamental vision of a fairer, more equitable, more decent society where working hard actually earns you a living and provides a dignified life. That's the fundamental basis of new democratic unity. And we're going to work through these issues where we have differences on specific issues. We're out of time, but let me ask you very quickly, two quick questions. One is, do you know when you're going to run for a seat? There could be a by-election in

beaches, East York in Toronto. Is that something that's on your radar? Well, it's interesting. After the results yesterday, I had my first caucus meeting with our tiny, mighty caucus, and I had a chance to thank from them for their extraordinary work, carrying forward our vision in a time when the party has lost status, in particular Don Davies, our interim leader, who's been amazing, but all of them. And they were of one voice urging me not to rush into Ottawa, but to stay out here where Canadians live, traveling the country, immersing myself in the reality of the everyday struggles

and the cost of living emergency and our proposals for it and rebuilding our party from the base up and raising money and retiring our debt and getting ready to fight the next election. So that's my priority in the near term. It's an exciting time for new Democrats because we actually have a chance

and I think that, I mean, Matt, we had unbelievable events during this campaign hundreds and hundreds of people. in Calgary and Edmonton and Saskatoon and Regina in St. John's and Whitehorse and Windsor. But we had remarkable, well, actually, we didn't make it to Windsor, but close. We had remarkable excitement and energy in this race, which took place under the radar because the mainstream reporting has been party on life support, party with challenges, etc. All fair and legit, but the momentum at the base is phenomenal.

We know we're coming back, and you guys are going to see that. soon. I have to let you go, but this is a moment. And I just wonder, if you think about your political family, you come from a political family, your father, Stephen Lewis, in many ways, in many moments, the conscience of this country in a lot of instances. And I know that he's been really sick in battling cancer for the last several years. When you think about him in this moment, what's going through your mind? I mean, my dad is more excited about the possibility of, you know, democratic socialism in Canada today than he's ever been. He is in the final phase of his life. And I, this campaign for me personally has been a lot because the family chat has been really,

really heavy. And he was really clear with me months ago that he wanted to hang on to see me win. And I wanted more than anything to be able to give him that as a final gift for a remarkable life and career, not just in politics, but sometimes as Canada's voice on the international state. age. And it's pretty damn special that it worked out that way. We'll talk more, certainly, in days and weeks ahead. In the meantime, Avey Lewis, good to have you here. Congratulations and thank you. Thank you. Avi Lewis is the new leader of Canada's NDP. He was in our Winnipeg studio. Hi, I'm Jamie Poisson, host of the Daily News podcast, Frontburner. I got this really cool note from a listener the other day. They wrote, I find myself torn between the desire to understand the

world around me and the anxiety associated with the easily access barrage of terrible news. And yet, amidst the torrent, there lies a sweet spot called Front Burner. This is exactly why we make the show. So you don't get swept away in a tide of overwhelming news. So follow Front Burner, wherever you get your podcasts. Stephanie Levitz is a senior reporter with the Globe Mail's Ottawa Bureau. Steph, good morning to you. Steph, are you there? Yeah, I am here. Oh, there she is. What do you think Avey Lewis's biggest challenge is going forward? He laid out a number of them, and we talked about the relations with provincial parties, but also trying to figure out how to build that caucus and some of the issues he's putting forward.

What do you think his biggest challenge is going to be? I mean, his most immediate challenge is to make the NDP relevant, again, for people. At a time when our politics is polarizing more than ever, at a time when, you know, people seem to want to default, at least at the federal level. And I would argue also provincially to more of a two-party system now, right? They're looking at the two, can you govern? Will you win? And when they look at the new Democrats, I think there's people including NDP voters who say,

hey, I like what you stand for, but I don't want that right now. I want someone who can govern, who can win and who can lead, and they don't see that in the new Democrats. How do you think his message is going to land on Parliament Hill? There was congratulations from both Pierre Pahliv and Mark. Carney, saying that they look forward to working with him, but? But, you know, I do think there is room for the New Democrats on Parliament Hill. We have seen Mr. Carney sort of shrug off this idea of a label, a partisan label.

When Mr. Carney speaks, he often refers to Canada's new government, not Canada's liberal government. He is building some kind of centrist, big new tent. And there are folks within the Liberal Party and the liberal movement who think he's abandoned the left flank of the party that progressive left that was always part of the party that frankly Justin Trudeau also cannibalized and was part of the reason for the NDPs collapse. There's room for the New Democrats to recapture that voice, to recapture that energy. And I think some of the liberals, frankly, are hoping that that's what they do so that it pressures Mark Carney to sort of move a bit away from what they view as to center right and move center left. What was interesting for the

conservatives, in my view, let's recall, again one of the reasons for the demise of the new Democrats is that Pierre Pahliav beat NDP leader Jugmint Singh over the head at every single opportunity. The two men were sworn enemies in the House of Commons. And for Mr. Pollyov to extend that sort of olive branch yesterday was notable to me because it means he cedes a role for the two of them to now work together to hold Carney to account in their role as opposition. It's also a recognition, perhaps, of Mr. Pahliav's that he needed the new Democrat votes in the last election. He was. He one seats away from the new Democrats. He wants to hold on to that voter coalition.

And he needs to hold on to that voter coalition. So criticizing the new Democrats right off the top isn't the way to do that. Just of a minute or so left, what do you make of the tension such as it is between the federal party and those provincial parties, particularly in Alberta and Saskatchewan? I think it's real. I think it's going to – it has the potential to be a problem. But again, I go back to what I said off the top about the two-party system, right? In the provinces, it's a very different political dynamic. where governance in Alberta in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, it ping pongs back and forth between two parties.

British Columbia would be another example of that. Probably one of the biggest risks is for provinces like in British Columbia, where David Eby is facing a newly united conservative movement out there who will probably look to Avi Lewis to disparage David Eby, right, and say, oh, he's just like him. Oh, that's a real negative. So there is a risk there. or maybe it's finally time for the NDP to decouple itself from its provincial cousins. The conservatives don't really have a provincial movement. The liberals is tenuous at best. And, you know, forge their own path at the national level.

We will be watching. Steph, good to talk to you. Thank you. You too, Matt. Take care. Stephanie Levitt, senior reporter in the Globe and Mail's Ottawa Bureau. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway.

Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.