The Current - Ontario election: Ford’s Washington trip and a ‘poor-taste joke’

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

Trump has dominated much of the discussion in Ontario’s provincial election, forcing issues like health care and housing to take a backseat. We discuss what’s been happening on the campaign trail, the imminent live debates, and why Premier Doug Ford called this snap election in the first place with our provincial politics panel: the CBC’s Mike Crawley, the Toronto Star’s Robert Benzie and the Globe and Mail's Laura Stone.  

When a body is discovered 10 miles out to sea, it sparks a mind-blowing police investigation. There's a man living in this address in the name of a deceased. He's one of the most wanted men in the world. This isn't really happening. Officers are finding large sums of money. It's a tale of murder, skullduggery and international intrigue. So who really is he? I'm Sam Mullins and this is Sea of Lies from CBC's Uncovered, available now.

This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, it's Matt here. Thanks for listening to The Current wherever you're getting this podcast. Before we get to today's show, wonder if I might ask a favor of you if you could hit the follow button on whatever app you're using. There is a lot of news that's out there these days. We're trying to help you make sense of it all and give you a bit of a break from some

of that news too. So if you already follow the program, thank you. And if you have done that, maybe you could leave us a rating or review as well. The whole point of this is to let more listeners find our show and perhaps find some of that information that's so important in these really tricky times. So thanks for all of that. Appreciate it. And onto today's show.

Working together, Canada and the US, can be the richest, most successful, safest, most secure two countries on the entire planet. We can usher in a new American Canadian century, what President Trump calls new golden age. We do so by building fortress amcan. Ontario Premier Doug Ford took his fortress amcan pitch to Washington DC this week. Doug Ford is the current leader of the Premier's group that's trying to defend Canada in the face of a trade war and ward off American tariffs.

But he's also running a re-election campaign as the Ontario Progressive Conservative Party leader after calling a snap election more than a year early because he said he needed a fresh mandate to deal with the economic threat to Ontario's economy. With less than two weeks before voting day and a debate today and again on Monday, we are looking at what matters to people in the Ontario election. Mike Crawley covers Ontario politics for your CBC. Robert Benzie is Queen's Park Bureau Chief for the Toronto Star. Laura Stone is a reporter with the Globe and Mail's Queen's Park Bureau.

Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Matt. Good morning. Morning, Matt. Laura, did you ever imagine you would be taking a detour to Washington, DC while covering an Ontario election campaign? I didn't and I spent a lot of time with Mike Mike and Rob so I can't get away from these guys. That's what happened. Rob, explain why this election is happening. The progressive

conservatives under Doug Ford have a big majority. They have time left in their mandate. Why did he say he needed to pull the ch shoot now and have an early vote? Well, Mr. Ford has been looking for an excuse to have an early election since last May, Matt, and they've been casting a vote for one. And Donald Trump has given them a really solid one because they say they need to get in front of his tariff threat and have some certainty here in Ontario.

Now, the reason Mr. Ford's been looking for an excuse to have an election for so long is he is popular in the polls and he's trying to get in front of a an rcmp investigation into the eight point two eight billion dollar greenbelt land swap scandal mister ford is denied any wrongdoing but there is always the off chance that someone in the government circle or someone in their orbit gets charged and then this thing all goes off the rails. So they wanted to get in front of that, but the official excuse is the Trump tariffs.

Just briefly, Rob, tell us, we'll get to them in detail, but we've talked a little bit about Doug Ford. Who are his rivals in this case? His two main rivals are NDP leader, Marit Stiles Stiles is the official opposition leader in the legislature at Queens Park and Liberal leader Bonnie Cromby and both ms. Cromby and ms. Stiles are new our new leaders They they only became leader in 2023. So this is their first Provincial campaign, but they're both experienced politicians

But today in North Bay, the first of two debates will be the first time the four of them have been on the stage together along with Green Leader Mike Schreiner. Mike, what do you make of the election call now? I mean, Rob talked about what's going on in terms of the tariffs and the fact that perhaps Doug Ford had been looking for an opportunity to go. There is also political uncertainty, he said, in Ottawa. And questions as to whether, you know, and when there will be a federal campaign. How does that all factor into what we're seeing right now?

Yeah, the timing is perfect for Doug Ford, and they chose this timing, right? They didn't have to call an election until June of next year, because Ontario has these six state election rules. And so they've controlled the timing. This has come at a time when Doug Ford happens to be the chair of the Council of the Federation,

the chair of the premiers. So he's had a pretty big national profile. There's a photo that's circulating of him sitting in a chair and he's surrounded by microphones and cameras and people kind of leaning in. It kind of looks like the Lord's Supper or something or some kind of leaning in. It kind of looks like the Lord's Supper or something, or some kind of medieval painting. Yeah.

It's, uh, and, and, you know, he's, he's been making a bunch of appearances on us networks because, you know, with a lame duck prime minister, who, who did the American networks reach out to, to talk about this 51st state staff and, and tariffs and all of that. So his, his profile is very, very big. And, you know, it's kind of interesting is if you,

if you think back to Doug Ford's, you know, original, his origins as a politician, you know, stepping in as a, as a Toronto city councillor, while his brother was the mayor of Toronto and, you know, his very narrow focus on Toronto, suddenly to see him on this, on the national stage talking about, you know, relations with the US, it's actually quite remarkable, the transformation.

Is he at all worried about the federal scene and the fact that, I mean, polling is changing, such as it is, but that there was the sense, certainly a few weeks ago, that Pierre Poliev, leader of the Federal Conservative Party, not Progressive Conservative, but Conservative Party, perhaps was a Prime Minister in waiting. Well, and that is actually also part of why he wanted to call the election earlier, in addition to the things that Rob mentioned.

The idea that there would be a Poliev government by some time later this year before all of this evolved wouldn't have been great politics for Doug Ford because of a couple of reasons. One is, if Peter Poliev comes in, then Doug Ford loses his foil in Justin Trudeau. A lot of his campaigning has been against Justin Trudeau as much as it's been against the opposition leaders here in the province.

And if Peter Poliev came in and did a bunch of things that upset Ontario voters, you know, that might blow back on Doug Ford. So I think, you know, I think that's one of the multiple reasons why they wanted to go sooner rather than later. Laura, it's the halfway point in the campaign. Is your sense that the gamble that Doug Ford took in going early, is that paying off?

I think Doug Ford has dominated the discussion of the election and so in that sense, I think it has for him. I mean, a lot can happen in campaigns. The debates are pretty high stakes as well, today's and Monday's. It's the first time the public will see the leaders squaring off and perhaps the first time the public will tune in to the campaign in any particular

detail. So a lot can happen in the next two weeks, but I do think in the sense of Mr. Ford looking like he's still the premier and still the leader, which he technically is, but eating up a lot of air time and that message of taking on Donald Trump, I think has been the dominant message of the campaign. And so I think in that sense, it has worked out for him. I think what's been really interesting to watch during the campaign and down in Washington, where we all were, was the fine line that, or maybe it's not even that fine, but the lines that have been blurred by Mr. Ford in the sense of him still acting as the premier of the province, but also running a re-election campaign. I asked him in one of his scrums in Washington,

so who are you right now? Are you the premier or are you the PC party leader? He said, I'm the premier. But the PC party also paid for him and his political staff to travel down to Washington. I think sensing there was some sensitivity around the optics of him heading to another country during the campaign. And there was some controversy yesterday around a video that Mr. Ford posted of footage from his trip walking along the streets of Washington and the Capitol looking very leaderly, I suppose, and then ending with the PC party slogan and the campaign slogan, which is protect Ontario. And that video was later removed and reposted. I think Mike Crowley noticed that first. Um, and so I think a lot of lines have been blurred here in terms of exactly which hat Doug Ford is wearing throughout the campaign.

Rob, is your sense that that trip to Washington paid off? I mean, he, the, the, the premier's met with the deputy chief of staff for the white house who then subsequently said that, yeah, we're still interested in Canada becoming a 51st state, um. Also met with the director of personnel, which people have been snarking saying that's great if you want to get a job, perhaps less great if you actually want to have an impact on the White House.

Did the trip play off to, and play well to, to voters here at home? I mean, I guess that remains to be seen. I think that Ford and his team certainly feel that it was helpful to them. Um, the meeting, that was really unusual meeting at the White at the White House and actually Kate McKenna from CBC broke the story that it was thanks largely to this $85,000 a month contract that the Council of the Federation of Premiers has with a lobbying firm in Washington

that is very closely linked to the Trump administration. So I mean look, it was smart of them to hire a connected lobbyist. If you're going to do that, you might as well do it to someone who's going to get you some influence. But I don't know, to your point, Matt, yeah, the deputy director of, or deputy chief of staff and the guy in charge of hiring, that's not exactly like you're meeting with, you know, Susie Willis, the chief of staff or President Trump himself. But I think, and funny, Lauren, Mike and I were talking about this in DC, with Trump,

it's so ad hoc, there's always a chance that he sticks his head in the door. I mean, Bob Canoe from Manitoba bumped into Elon Musk, who's really the second in command in the White House after Trump, just in the hallway at the White House. So I think just being there it was not unhelpful. Now look, you're right, the guy trolled Premier Eby and said we still want to have you as a 51st state, which is, Eby was right, it is a non-starter. So one thing all 13 Premiers and all 41, 42 million Canadians agree is we don't want to be a 51st state for a million reasons. So I think it's brought us together as a country actually.

And yet, and just the last point on Mr. Ford, Mike, he was caught on camera last week saying that he'd actually been happy that Donald Trump won until, in his words, Donald Trump pulled out a knife and then said other things that we can't say on the radio. It was turned into an ad that people perhaps saw during the Super Bowl.

What does that do to Doug Ford? So leading up to the terror thing, Doug Ford had not really made a secret of his, of how he felt about Donald Trump. He'd even previous, you know, previously said that he wanted Trump, you know, to, to win the election in, in, in 2016. Uh, he, uh, you know, he had said his support for Donald Trump was unwavering.

So I guess the question though, Matt, of how does that affect, uh, the campaign now, people's opinions in Ontario about Doug Ford are pretty firm, um, folks, there's a lot of information out there about Doug Ford and things he's Folks, there's a lot of information out there about Doug Ford and things he's done in the past and said in the past that people know about. And so I just don't know whether him admitting that,

yeah, he wanted Donald Trump to win the election a few months ago, actually shifts votes because it solidifies the opinion of people that don't wanna vote for Doug Ford, that yeah, here's another reason not to like him. But for the folks who do, that's kind of baked in to their feeling about Doug Ford. I'm Dena Temple-Reston, the host of the Click Here podcast from Record of Future News. Twice a week, we tell true stories about the people making and breaking our digital world.

And these days, our digital world is being overrun by hackers. I was just targeted by a nation state. And they range from reflective. It's a crime, bro. And I live with that every day. To ruthless. Do you feel guilty about it?

No, not really. Click here from Recorded Future News. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts. One of the things that's surprising perhaps to people who aren't following this as closely as you are is that this campaign is so dialed into what's happening between Canada and the United States and that in the province of Ontario there are big issues that people are facing that perhaps aren't getting as much attention. Have a listen to what the leader of the Liberal Party, Bonnie Crombie, had to say about the issue of healthcare. We have a plan that will invest $3 billion,

which incidentally is about the same amount as those pre-election checks everyone is receiving. And we would put that into healthcare. We would put that into hiring 3,100 family doctors to ensure that you get the healthcare that you need. Laura, those checks that she's referring to are $200 rebate checks to taxpayers coming from the Ontario government just before the election was

called. What do we know about why it is that healthcare, we talk to people in in in Walkerton, Ontario, who are standing out in the freezing cold for hours in the midst of a blizzard trying to get a family doctor. Why isn't this one of the top issues or the top issue, do you think in the campaign or is it? And perhaps people are just talking about something else. Well, I think it is a top issue.

And I think the liberals have kind of rightly zoned in on one thing that they want to talk about during this campaign, which is healthcare. That's their main message. They've tried to run a very focused campaign. I think probably knowing that Mr. Ford and the PCs were going to talk all about tariffs and all about Trump, I think in kind of a message control fashion, they thought, let's

run a very focused campaign. Obviously, they're going to talk about other issues in the province, but healthcare, the lack of family doctors is a major issue and people are talking about it. I think there's perhaps among the public, almost a resignation to how bad it is. And I don't want to downplay the situation because if people have had negative experiences in the hospital waiting rooms, for instance, waiting for 10, 12 hours to see someone or if you've waited a couple of years and you can't get a doctor in your area, these are big issues that impact your life on a daily basis. I think

maybe because it's been low level there for so long, it's not as much of a pressing issue as the visuals of Donald Trump in the White House saying we're going to take over Canada. So I think, you know, I do think it's a big issue. I think the liberals have tried to make it a big issue. Their campaign bus is splattered with stats about the healthcare system and instead of pictures of Bonnie Cromby's face. But I think kind of maybe the more pressing issue of Donald Trump and the tariffs, which is dominating the news cycle, dominating discussion,

maybe the thing that everyone's talking about right now, that's what they're up against. And so that's why I think the debates will matter. And I think the issues that are happening in the province, be it housing, be it social services, healthcare, lack of family doctors. And we know that millions more people are going to lack access to a family doctor in the next couple of years. I think they will kind of rise above the noise that we've been hearing throughout the campaign because of Trump. But Trump just takes over.

Trump dominates at the dinner table. He's what everyone's talking about. And so it's been difficult for the opposition parties to get attention. Leader of the NDP, Marit Starrls, is trying to break through that as well. She was on the campaign trail in Windsor, Ontario. Have a listen to that. It's the workers of this province. I will stand with them and we will protect every single one of those jobs and they are absolutely under threat. You cannot count on Doug Ford and his conservative MPPs to stand up for working people. They're not there on the picket line, right? They won't fight against the ESCABs. They won't fight the private agencies. They are not the friends of working people. Mike, how well is that appeal going? Look, this is quite possibly the biggest

transformation of the progressive conservatives under Doug Ford. We were in Windsor and saw that. Yeah, because when Doug Ford was elected first in 2018, one of the first things that his government did was to gut labor legislation, froze the minimum wage, made it more difficult to join a union, like all sorts of basically anti-worker stuff in their first year in government. And they realized by the time the

2022 election rolled around that actually, um, as I had it told to me by a conservative strategist, there's a lot more workers out there voting than there are business owners or employers. And they transformed somehow, uh, Doug Ford into friend of the working man. And so a lot of bunch of his campaign appearances were in front of workers in in orange reflective vests and they got endorsements from a bunch of private sector unions mainly in the construction trades and and that's been happening.

They've been practically announcing a union endorsement every single day. So for the NDP, this is really difficult. The NDP lost seats in places like Windsor and Timmons and Hamilton to the conservatives last time. So reaching out for working people's votes is hard for the New Democrats this time. And in some ways, maybe this is a bit like how in the U S, uh, there were, you know,

unions and, and working people wanting to vote for the Republicans and for Donald Trump. We're almost out of time. Rob, I have to ask you, one of the things that you wrote is that, um, and you said this early in the campaign, the progressive conservative party believes there's only one candidate that can defeat Doug Ford, and that's Doug Ford.

You have a story in the paper today about a speech that he gave at the London Police Service Dinner in which he called for the return of the death penalty. What did he say? Well, he said that he'd like changes in the federal criminal code so that judges could, what he said, empower judges to quote unquote send them right to Sparky, meaning the electric chair.

This is a story that my colleague Rob Ferguson and I did that's on our front page today actually. And it was quite something for him to say this. It was caught on tape and we have the recording. And he said, here's what he actually said, Matt, I don't even go 25 years. caught on tape and we have the recording. He said, here's what he actually said, Matt, I don't even go 25 years. I say send them to Sparky and we'll take it from there. But he also said that there was concern that he would go off script, right?

That he would say something. Yeah, and that was the main thing. They were very worried about his off the cuff remarks. I mean, he has a bit of a, he has a folksy charm and he is a strong communicator much of the time. But even, he even says, oh, you know, I, my campaign says don't go off script. And then he does the same thing with Mike mentioned

the 100, him saying he 100% wanted Trump to win the election. That was caught on a hot mic. His campaign wasn't happy. And interestingly, at first yesterday, when we contacted them, they were, they played it down and then they realized that it was not playing very well and they put out, six hours later, they put out a statement calling it a poor taste joke and that they are not in favor of the death penalty, the Tories.

Who knows what will unfold in the next couple of weeks? The campaign is only halfway through. We will continue to follow this. It's good to have you all here this morning. Thank you. Bye guys. Thanks, Matt. Laura Stone covering Ontario provincial politics with The Globe and Mail. Robert Benzie is with the Toronto Star, and Mike Crawley is reporting on the campaign for your CBC.

You can find the latest at cbcnews.ca.