The Current - P.K. Subban on the Canada/US heated hockey rivalry

Episode Date: February 5, 2026

Canadian hockey legend PK Subban is one of the executive producers of a new CBC special, Rivals: the Four-Nations Face-Off -- chronicling that epic hockey tournament, last year. He talks about the fights, the booing, and why Canadian fans criticized people like Wayne Gretzky, and Subban himself, during that heated political and cultural moment.

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please welcome Warrant Officer David Grenon of the Royal Canadian Air Force Band. As the players took the ice in Montreal, the fans made it clear who they were rooting for. it was Canada versus the United States at the four nations face-off hockey tournament last year. As you know, Canada, USA is an intense rivalry at the best of times. But in 2025, those times were different, thanks in part to Donald Trump. He looks forward to watching the game tonight, and we look forward to the United States beating our soon-to-be-fif first state, Canada. That was the White House spokesperson, Caroline Levitt, before that first game.

Then, as soon as the puck hit the ice, there was this. Let's finally drop this puck. Get the action going. Kachukh brothers are on the ice, flanking Jack Eichol and John Cooper, look out. They're going to drop the gloves right away. Matthew Kachuk and Brandon Hangel. Right off the hop.

There were three fights in the first nine seconds of that game, a sign of the intensity that all the players were bringing to the Four Nations Cup. But then, as you remember, this is how the tournament ended. A special program on CBC television tonight chronicles the tournament and the cultural and political moment that it happened in P.K. Subin, former star the Montreal Canadians, and other teams, but we kind of focus on the habs. And a member of Canada's Olympic team in 2014 was one of the executive producers of rivals, the four nations face-off. P.K. Subin is with me live in studio. Good morning. Good morning. Nice to see you. How are you? Good to see again. What goes through your mind when you hear that play-by-play of the winning. goal by Connor McDavid. Oh, it was one mistake.

You know, when you're talking about best on best, all it takes is one moment. And for Canada, that's all it took. You give a player like that who's been waiting his whole life to play in a best-on-best situation, and he didn't disappoint in Canada, in Montreal, over 100 years of history, the whole world watching, and he delivers, you know, in a big way.

Like, not like, you know, off of his butt, and in the net, like, you know, pop out in the slot, top corner. It was remarkable. It was exactly the way that you would want it to be being Canadian. It felt like the entire country kind of exhaled when the puck went in the net. Oh, I know I did. I mean, I was still in shock because up to that point, every Canadian could share this, that the U.S., you know, have their chances in overtime, you know?

Like, it was like, man, like, you know, are we going to get a chance here? and the patience, Kail McCar, to not try to do too much, put it behind the net, trust in Mitch Marner to do what he's been doing since he's been in the NHL and that's to find the best player on his team when he has the puck on his stick.

And he did that in a pretty crucial moment for Canada. There was a lot that led up to that moment. What was, just remind us, what was the idea behind this tournament? Well, man, I mean, you know, I work at ESPN and I work on ABC every Saturday. and, you know, we get millions of people that tune into the show. And you definitely feel that presence, you know, of the United States and that you're working in the U.S.

But for this, it was a little bit different. You know, I came into this saying, okay, I'm working for ESPN, but, you know, this is a four-nations tournament in Canada, in Montreal, where I played. So, you know, the last thing on my mind was thinking, you know, that this thing is going to become as big as it did in that moment. And, you know, the moment that you had Trudeau and Trump get involved, it was on another level. And then having Trump called Team USA really took the tournament to another level. I mean, I was on first take. Get up. Every big U.S. sports show that you could imagine, we had access to.

So there was no question how big the moment was. We surprised. I mean, one of the things that people worried about is this would just be an all-star game where players don't really care. They have nothing invested in it. and it ends up being, you know, a football score, not a hockey score. Were you surprised at the level of hockey in this tournament? I wasn't. You know, I wasn't surprised.

I was surprised about the fighting. I didn't see that coming. And I think that maybe this is me being young in my career. I didn't even realize at the time, you know, I completely forgot that, like, this isn't international rules. What was that? What was that about? All those fights, three fights in nine seconds. Loved it.

I loved it. I loved it. I loved every moment of it. For me, if people ask me from the time, and I'm sure if you asked Mark Messier that, Mr. Arruzioni, who was there, Jeremy Roonic, any ex-player or legend, would have probably come out of their suits to be in that moment in that game because it's every hockey player's dream to put on your country's jersey and to show that type of pride. And I felt it was shown on both sides. Like, it really set a, up for success. The atmosphere, and everybody who is there, but if you watch, you got it as well, the atmosphere in Montreal at the Bell Center was insane. I mean, that's your barn. I said you played in other teams, but people know you as a habit. What is it like when you're on the ice and those fans are bellowing and it's steep and they're kind of almost on top of you,

what does that feel like? It's incredible, you know. I'll say this even till to this day. I still don't think that the loudest noise has ever come in the Bell Center because it'll always be for the habs. Like, you know, that's the one thing that's consistent is that there was never a moment where, you know, in that building, I was like, no, I'm like, this is like as close as it's going to get. Like, you're not getting any closer. And the electricity there is common.

Like, it can light up at any moment in time. And do you feel it on the ice when you're there? Oh, big time. I mean, I feed off of it, let alone feel it. I need it. I thrive on it. I love it because I grew up watching it in French. I didn't even watch it in English, you know, black and white television.

like as raw and organic as you can get it. So I know what those fans are feeling when, you know, it's time. It's time for the Canadians to do their thing. What did you make of the booing of the anthem? You know, it's a part of sports. I don't know. That was a different part of sports. I don't think a lot of people were familiar with that.

Yeah, you know, I've heard, well, I think it's safe to say that anybody that watches hockey knows that I'm pretty familiar with booing. You know, I've been booed quite a bit in my career and I loved every moment of it. I wish they booed more. I still don't think they booed loud enough in Boston and some of these other cities. But booing is a part of sports. And it's the mob. No one's bigger than the mob.

The mob has its choice at the end of today. You watch anything, you go back and watch any movie from the old times. My favorite movie is Gladiator, you know, in the Coliseum. And that's the way I envision us as hockey players, is being modern-day gladiators. And we're never bigger than the mob. You respect the mob. Some days the mob's not for you. the end of the day we need the mob and those are the fans and they're allowed to cheer.

They're allowed to boo. At the end of the day, it's the players that exude, you know, we're the men in the arena, right? So the loyalty and the respect to the game starts and ends with us. And if we continue to show that, everybody has to follow. And our players understand that and they always show that. But the reason that people were booing here was because you had the press secretary talking to Canada being the 51st state. And there's a lot of, I mean, real Canadian pride. Did you appreciate at the time what that moment felt like for Canadians? You know, I think I just have a confidence as a Canadian. I mean, I've won at the level. So, you know, winning cures everything, you know, like it's one thing to represent your country. But

when you're able to win and win a gold medal, it gives you that confidence, right? That ultimately people can challenge where you're from and who you are. But you know that when push comes to shove, you're going to show that you're the best and why Canada is the best and that you are Canadian. So whatever the questions are, I never doubt Canada when the puck gets dropped, you know, because when things get tough, Canadians step up. Well, I guess for people, I mean, this is what I said at the beginning, it went beyond hockey in someone. So this was a hockey tournament. But in that moment, it did. It was Canada versus the United States. And it was, I mean, again, that whole phrase of

elbows up, right? Yeah. What does that mean to you? That, I mean, outside of hockey, when you see this moment, what does that phrase mean to you? Well, in that moment, it wasn't, it wasn't, it was about being Canadian, but in a way, it kind of wasn't, because my job's to be objective. I work on a U.S. broadcast at ESPN. Like, those fans need to understand that Team USA has a real shot at beating Canada, right? Now, nobody in Canada wants to hear that, but that's my job. That's what I get paid to do. But deep down inside, I mean, you know this.

Me and Messer kicking each other under the table, we're like, come on, man, Canada's got to get this done. We can't lose this tournament. So I think that the political, part, you know, it entered the fray, but it never got onto the ice. And I think that for the players and being a guy that's been in the locker room before, you don't have time to think about anything else other than what you got to do on that ice. And I think that playing for your country is enough. You know, you don't need any other motivation than that. Like, once you put that jersey on and you see that Maple Leaf on the front, as a player, it does something to you. And you want to be

accounted for and you want to win. But, you know, as a Canadian, I've never, ever felt that where I'm from or my passport was ever in jeopardy at any time in my life. You know, I know what it is to be Canadian and I'm a proud Canadian. Our players felt the same. You faced some criticism for this, though. I mean, there was a tweet that went out. Donald Trump called the American team and you said the trizzy train could be coming through. Yeah. People called you out. Akimali, who is a Canadian hockey player, said, I mean, he said, his words, he said you were a disgrace. He said you'd put money ahead of, of the country. People said that you were a traitor. Do you understand the reaction that that got? Well, I mean, to be quite

honest with you, and when you sit at the ABC desk for ESPN, there's a lot of things that get said on Twitter and ESPN or, sorry, on social media. For me, over my career, there's been a lot of things that have said about me. And the majority of those things have been left to the side. You know, I control my own narrative. Unfortunately, for Akeem or anybody else, they don't control my narrative. Nobody does. Not the media, not an owner, not a player, not a journalist.

Nobody has control over who P.K. Suben is or how he's perceived. I control that. Now, I don't know how many athletes and how many players have maintain that throughout their careers. But I've only lived one way, and that's P.K.'s way. I don't live anybody else's. I don't live for anybody else's. I know that I'm black. I don't need to go out and show the world every day that I'm proud and I'm black. I do that by setting examples. Examples that not everybody can set, because not everybody is selfless. So when you go out and make donations and dedicate your time, not just your money, your time,

to other people that are less fortunate. And people want to criticize that and criticize your character. Well, I guess they're criticizing specifically. I mean, in a moment of Canadian pride. You see, you can't do that. You can't pick and choose. And that's the difference between the media before and the media now. And that's why I work in media now, because people don't do the work.

People want to leverage and take advantage of opportunities, but people don't want to do the research. So you can't tell the story unless you tell the whole story. And I've earned credibility in that space. to be objective. So if people want to take it and dissect it and break it down because of their own personal narratives,

that has absolutely nothing to do with me. Wasn't just you. I mean, talk about Wayne Gretzky. This comes up in rivals, right? Gretzky comes out. Walks onto the ice, I just explained for people who don't know this, walks onto the ice,

and he gives a thumbs up to the Team USA bench before Canada US. Fans were upset. Fans were upset that he didn't wear a Team Canada jersey for the opening ceremony, just this suit.

what do you make of that? I mean, it seemed like the public opinion on Gretzky changed. Yes. In that moment? Well, you know, listen, Wayne also suffers from the same thing, probably in a bigger way. You know, he stands for much more than just Canada and the game. He stands for the game. Like, he represents everybody.

He doesn't just represent Canadian players. And I knew that. I knew Walter. I went to his tournament in Bradford. I'm standing there holding that trophy, seeing them wear the roots Canadian jersey and Olympic jersey. Like, you know, who are these people that are criticizing Wayne? Well, there's a lot of people. And they say they see him not just as a friend of Donald Trump, but they just wonder why he wasn't more vocal in supporting Canada.

What would you say to those people? My question is, why aren't you? What have you done? That's my question. So I would like to line up. And you can throw Akeem and some other people into that group. but I would love to line them up and say, how much time have you invested in the country?

How much time have you given to hockey in the game? What have you done? It's not even a conversation, guys. There's not even a conversation to be had. So, you know, we have to be very careful of what we promote and what we talk about. I think that in the moment it's heightened because it's Wayne Gretzky, but, you know, in the dock, we talk about it.

I think we have to be very, very careful on the expectations that we put on people. and my energy's never been in politics. You know, it's still not. Like, I can talk about. Politics shows up in the game. It does show, well, hold on. Politics is a part of the world that we live in, right?

But it doesn't mean that it's bigger than the game. Because to us, it's not. When the puck drops, it's about the game. So, you know, nothing's bigger than the game. And that's what I would tell all of those fans. That's what I would tell any particular person that when you've played in the National Hockey League, a game that's fed us, a game that supported our families,

a game that helps us in the community, a game that brings us all together. I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to step all over that, right? You know, for me, it's a vehicle in a lot of ways to the growth that I've been able to go through, the way that I've been able to take care of my family, the impact I've been able to have in other communities.

If it wasn't for Jeff Moleson, the Montreal Canadiens, I wouldn't have an opportunity to give back to the Montreal Children's Hospital. I wouldn't be sitting at the ESPN desk right now if they didn't trade me to the U.S. So a lot of things is perspective and how you look at it, right? If someone in your family experienced harm while admitted to a federal Indian hospital and passed away on or after January 25, 2016, you may be able to submit a claim as an estate representative or heir. Find out more at www.IH settlement.ca.

or call 1-888-592-9101. Look, chances are your algorithm is still locked into everything that happened to this year's Grammy Awards, so let's talk about it. I'm Elamine, and this week on Commotion, I'm assembling the group chat to talk about the big winners and the surprises that no one saw coming, and the snubs that people are upset about from music's biggest night. Find and follow Commotion with Elamon Abduh Mammu on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

When you were sitting at that desk leading up to the final, this is what you said about the final game. Make no doubt about it, Stephen A. This is about two of the best programs in hockey. And I think Team USA right now is ahead of where Canada is in their development. And that's why I'm picking Team USA to win this game tonight. A lot of eyebrows going up across the country at that prediction. I hear nothing but facts.

And when you think about it, listen. And you say that in the doc too. Yeah, and I can be, it's very, very easy. Like, I look at Toronto Maple Leafs. Everybody wants to be critical of the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's very easy to do that, but you've got to tell the story. You got to go why the Leafs are in that situation. It's the same thing with Team Canada, you know, like we're in that situation,

not just because of all the things that can have done, but other countries have worked really hard. Like, other countries have invested a lot in their hockey programs. And so when people talk about this being our game, Canadian, this is Canada, his game. Is that something we can say anymore, do you think? Oh, big, yeah. I mean, are you kidding me? Of course. I think that... Even though other teams are neck and neck with us. Yeah, of course. Because you got to, listen, four nations, it don't matter what the final game was like. It don't matter if the shots were 50 to 1. Who ended up winning? You got to win. And to me, in those moments, when the

games get tough, when Canada plays its style of hockey, no one plays a better game when the game gets tough than us. And it showed once again, because it wasn't just the offensive talent and skill that won us that tournament. It was the defense. It was Sidney Crosby against Finland making that play. It was Connor McDavid and McKinnon being patient and being explosive at the right times. It was everybody buying in. It was Cal McCar being banged up, missing a game, and coming back into the tournament to find his game. So there were elements of why Canada won that have nothing to do with the skill and talent on the team have to do with who they are, where they're from, and why they're there. You spend a lot of time finding new fans in new places for this game. Why is this such a

drive for you? What are you trying to do with that? Because that's all I ever wanted. What do you mean? That's all I ever wanted. Coming into the National Hockey League, like anywhere else in this world, when you go into a work field that's maybe culturally different or predominantly different. Where you stand out. Yeah, where you stand out. What type of impact do you want to have? And there's a lot of different ways that I'm sure I could have gone, not just in hockey, but in life. But that wasn't where my energy was. My energy was on, you know, carving and blazing the best path that I personally could. And then pulling as many people through that doorway as I can. And in order to do that, you have to go through the door first. You know, well, going through that door is,

easy. If everybody could do it, everybody would. It's not just dependent on talent. It's not just dependent on skill. It's about how bad you want it. And I wanted to play in the National Hockey League. I wanted to be the best player I could be, but I wanted to create an impact and create a space where people felt comfortable being themselves by example, not by my mouth, not by going up and pumping my fist and saying, you know, black people matter. No, everybody matters. You know, I have a lot of great teammates, but, you know, I know what I stand for. When I stepped on the ice, you knew I was black.

You knew where I came from. You knew where I stood for. You listened to me, talk. I didn't talk like everybody else. But I was a team guy and I wanted to win a Stanley Cup. So, you know, that's where my energy was. And now we're seeing the game change. And I think it's for the better.

You know, it's interesting. The biggest hockey story right now is not four nations. It's not the Olympics. It's not who may or may not win the Stanley Cup. Healed rivalry is this television program that has, is the biggest TV show in the world in some ways. What do you think the impact of something like that is to change? People see this, and we had this conversation on this program,

about the possibility of that program, changing the culture of hockey. Do you see that as a possibility? Well, I think that everybody needs to be open to where their energy is. At the end of the day, if that's something that's for you, if those are things that you like to watch, great. Like, there's a lot of things on TV now. And I think anything connected to our sport is great,

because, you know, it's a different landscape now in the digital platform. So we're going to have a lot of different things. A lot of people out there, a lot of different fans. But that show is a phenomenon. Yeah, and you know what? I listened to, I talked to Gary a couple days. Gary Bettman a couple days ago. The commissioner of the NHL.

Who said he binge watched it. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet. I just haven't. I'm watching games every night. So it's a little bit more difficult for me now to get TV. And the last show that I watched was a show called his and hers on Netflix. I don't know if you've heard this. I have not.

It's a six episodes, not to go off topic, but it's a six episode series. It's unbelievable. You should find some time for heated rock. I know. You know what? Everybody seems to be loving this. You know, I think it's great for the game. You know, I'm so open to everything.

But, you know, for me right now, I think our best product at the end of the day is on the ice. Our players, once again, it's stadium series, did a phenomenal job, blowing numbers out of the water again. And so I think there's a lot of things to like about our game, including that show. Let me ask you a couple quick things before I let you go. One is you talked about being an outsized personality. Who is you now in the league? There's a lot of sameness, right? And a lot of people booed you because of who you were.

But that's missing in some ways. Who is you now? Who is that outside personality in the game that changes things up? I'm the same person I was. But who's that person now on the ice? You know, I have a zest for life. I enjoy getting up every day. having a purpose. I don't live for anybody else, but the things that I believe in. So I believe in

working hard and creating what is there for you, but also giving back. That's always been my thing, is giving back and wanting to see not only myself have success, but the people around me. And right now it's about the game, you know, the game is something that I love tremendously. I've always loved it. And I think it can be rare at times where athletes step away from sports and they don't love the game, you know, but in this case, I was able to step away from it where I still loved it, I still have a passion for it, and this allows me to quench that thirst, I guess you can say.

Do you think that we miss those outside personalities in the game? We need somebody who's going to pop out that's not just going to be the same kind of thing and offer the same kind of sports cliches and those answers. You didn't do that. We don't have that now. Yeah, and, you know, I think it's important also to say this, that we want personalities,

but we want organic personalities. We want authentic personalities. We don't want anybody to feel that they need to do something that they're not. You know, like, fortunately, what you saw was what you got with me. Like, you know, that's how I woke up every day. You know, I didn't make a choice to come up with the different answers than all my teammates or the guy next to me. It's just that's my thought process.

That's the way I was thinking. And if I would have changed that, maybe I wouldn't have. the job that I have today. Maybe I wouldn't have the opportunities that I have today. I could let you go, but the Olympics are about to start. What are you expecting from Canada? Well, I expect them to win. You know, I expect them to win

just because, you know, Sidney Crosby, we don't know if we're going to see him again in another Olympics. I mean, I'm optimistic about his game. I tell him he could play another 20 years. I don't know if he believes that or not, but he's, I want to see him get another shot, you know, and to have guys like

Maclid Celebrini, be able to be a part of that experience with him. And, you know, I mean, what's a greater Canadian right now than Sidney Crosby, who's still competing? I don't know. He'd be hard-pressed to find a better guy. So I want to see him have success again at the international level. I think he deserves it. Do you think he's going to bring home a gold medal?

Oh, yeah. I don't bet against Sid. I don't bet against Connor. Those two guys, I just, like, listen. You know, I still had to, I watched him score the goal. I'm happy to see him score, but at the same token, like, it's kind of like to be objective and be about your job and go through the X's and O's and bet against Connor McDavid just doesn't seem like something that would be wise in my future. So I'm going to stick with Canada and my old teammate, Sidney Crosby, that I won with in 14. Rivals is fun to watch.

It takes us back to a pretty neat moment last year when this country was, it was in a space. People felt good about this country and were wrapping themselves in the flag. And you saw that come through and how people responded to that tournament and the final as well. I felt that today. When I walked into the CBC building today, I felt that today. I wanted to kind of, I was like, where's my flag? Maybe I need to wrap my flag around and coming next time. We'd look crisp around that jacket.

There you go. P.K. Subin, it's good to have you here. Thank you very much. Thank you, Cahoulli. P. K.C. Subin is a former NHL Defensive member of the Montreal Canadiens, executive producer of rivals. Four Nations face off at premieres tonight at 8. p.m. 8.30 in Newfoundland on CBC and CBC Gem. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name's

Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash