The Current - Planning your next vacation? Here’s how to be a good tourist

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

“Tourists go home," protesters chant in Spain, and they’re not alone. People in many European countries say they want tourists to stay away — but only the bad ones. So as you plan your next vacation, we get some advice on how to be a better tourist.

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Spring is in full flight. You might be making plans for summer travel. If you're looking at the map and you're pondering destinations, here's a question. Is Spain on your list? If so, many people who live there would like you to reconsider. Thousands of protesters took to the streets of the Canary Islands on Sunday, marching under the banner, Canaries have a limit. They say over tourism is driving up the price of homes and pushing them out. Spain is one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world, second only to France.

It drew more than 94 million foreign visitors last year. And this year it's already breaking records with more than 17 million tourists between January and March alone. The growing backlash has prompted the Spanish government to remove more than 65,000 Airbnb listings for holiday rentals. Victor Lassa is a City Councilor in San Sebastian. It's a coastal city in the Basque region of Spain. Victor Lassa, good morning. Good morning, Matt, how are you? I'm well and glad to talk to you. What is it like to live in San Sebastian at the height of the tourist season?

Well, sometimes I have to say it feels a bit somber because you are slowly seeing how the city you used to know kind of disappears in front of your eyes and you don't see any benefit associated to it. How many people visit your city over the course of, I mean, if we're looking toward summer, for example, and the height of the tourism season, how many people would be there?

Well, at the end of the year, it's between one and 1.5 million people. This is a city of 188,000 people, so you can imagine the kind of impact that has. Also, there are around 2 million total visitors to the Basque country and 75 to 80% come to San Sebastian. And of those around 90% come specifically for food because our gastronomy is pretty famous and this all concentrates in the old part of town. So the impact is massive. Full disclosure, I am part of the problem. I love San Sebastian. I love being

there. I love the food and it's an extraordinary place. But what impact do people like me have on things like housing prices and the quality of life for people like you who live there? Well, look, I mean, I'm glad to hear you like it. People are welcome here. We've been historically a tourist destination. So it's not that we hate tourists, but like with everything, we ask people to be mindful of the decisions they make

when they are tourists. You know, you can be part of the problem of the pressure, or you can be part of the solution or the sustainability. There are ways to travel that are linked to locally owned businesses. You can try to merge with what you see with the way of life and the culture, try to be one of us for a couple of days and be more of a guest rather than just a consumer. Airbnb is the subject of a lot of attention and people point to, when you talk about using local owned businesses and what have you,

that Airbnb is kind of counter to that. The Spanish government blocked more than 65,000 Airbnb listings for holiday rentals. What does that mean in San Sebastian? What has Airbnb done to your town? Well, it means there are less and less flats for rent for residents, residents, students, people doing normal life. You know, this is a normal city with normal things going on,

work, studying, life. So there is less room for that and more and more room for tourists and visitors. There are over 1,500 holiday apartments that you can find on Airbnb and other platforms here, very concentrated in the old part, in the center of town. And it's just increasing prices to levels that locals easily, mainly can't afford, which means young people don't see a future for themselves

anymore in their own town. And, you know, I have small children myself and I'm seeing how I have to explain to them how the city they are going to be growing up is not the same one I grew up in, you know, and that's sad. Have you seen that change? You lived there, then you moved away,

and then you returned. So how is San Sebastian different now than the place that you grew up in? Well, it used to be slower, warmer, if you want. It used to be a place where you would go with your parents to a local farmers market and get your food, and you want. It used to be a place where you would go with your parents to a local farmers market and get your food and you would stop every five steps because you would bump into somebody you know. And today it's a place that is not as easy to recognize.

You don't bump into that many people you know anymore. You can't find anywhere to live that is, you know, on a reasonable price. And everything seems to have become more of a state, like a platform for an audience, rather than a place where normal life happens. If you look at the idea of sustainable tourism and people, you know, being more respectful, part of that is where they stay. But what does that idea mean to you? What does it mean to be a sustainable tourist in a city like yours that has changed so dramatically? Well, it means that you have to be mindful of your impact.

It means that, you know, try not to get sucked by the global tourist industry frantic rhythm and don't come in organized travel mode, don't come on a Christian boat, don't be part of big organized groups. Try to figure out your own way in here. Try to listen to what's going on here. When you ask a local about things, ask what they like about their town instead of asking about the best place for food, so to say. Try to come in other seasons, not only on peak season. And yeah, consider every one of your decisions. Think locally. Try to go to locally

owned hotels and locally owned restaurants so that at least people can, the profit that comes from the industry is better distributed, is distributed to a broader base. Would you want things like cruise ships to be banned from San Sebastian? Absolutely, yes. Cruise ships is probably the most unsustainable way of travel. It doesn't make any sense that suddenly 1,500 to 2,000 people can land in this town for a day and just go through it and disappear. I don't think anywhere in the world wants that kind of tourism. There might be some parts, you know, go to those parts. There are destinations in the world that are asking for tourism, more tourists.

So maybe that's part of what could be happening there. Here is not that kind of place. This is just a middle-sized, normal European town. And we want to try to keep it that way as much as possible. Tourism is big business in Spain and big business in San Sebastian. There are figures that foreign tourists in Spain have already spent more than 23 billion euros this year. That's around 37 billion Canadian dollars. Tourism brings in something like 13% of the Spanish GDP, 14% of the workforce in the country is tied to tourism and tourism related industries.

Can you remove things like cruise ships and mass tourism without hemorrhaging your economy? Absolutely. Tourism is an extractive industry. Like any other extractive industry, it requires regulation. Part of this regulation could be saying no to cruise ships and saying yes to all their waves. Tourism is an extractive industry. Like any other extractive industry, it requires regulation. Part of this regulation could be saying no to crucibles

and saying yes to other ways of travel. That can also be beneficial for the economy. And it's true that tourism creates a lot of wealth and jobs, but let me make two points. The first one, the wealth, is it well distributed? Like do locals see any benefits by having their lives impacted by tourism? Usually not the case in jobs. Unfortunately, jobs around hospitality and tourism are among the ones with

the worst working conditions you can find. So again, when you're a tourist, make sure that you go to places that respect working conditions, family-owned or locally-owned or with people you see are enjoying their jobs instead of, you know, suffering, working many hours for very little in an economy that doesn't really benefit everybody. Yeah. You see these scenes, and not so much in San Sebastian, but in Barcelona and Madrid, of tourists who are sitting at cafes and protesters are walking down the street shouting at them saying, go home. They have these signs saying, you know, no tourists and what have you.

Are tourists still welcome in your city? Absolutely. And let me say, I think that those scenes from the Martholoma have been a bit exaggerated. Like, for what I know, it happened once or twice. And it's not something that you find as a tourist often in Spain at all. But it's the kind of thing that plants itself

in somebody's mind, right, if they're thinking about going abroad. Well, I understand how people can be concerned about it. It's fair enough. Just to tell them that they are not going to find hostiles telling them to go home, but they are going to be part of an economic activity that brings a lot of pressure to locals and the way you behave as a tourist is going to count. So you have to decide, be part of the problem or be part of the solution.

There is a kind of tourism that is welcomed by everybody. It just has to be, you know, friendly to locals and based on local needs rather than the industry needs. So what's a word of advice you would give? I mean, as I said, it's now towards the end of May, people are thinking about where they might want to travel and your city is a beautiful place. What would you say to people who are considering visiting San Sebastian? What would you want them to know? Well, first of all, I'll ask them to be mindful about their decisions, to think about it.

As I was saying earlier, there are other places asking for tourism, but if you do decide to come, know that you are going to be welcome, but that we want you here as a guest, not so much as a consumer. So try to be part of who we are. Try to engage with the locals, ask them what they like about their town. Think what you would like people to do in the place where you grew up. And, you know, be part of it and enjoy yourself. Be part of it.

That's a really important piece of advice. Victor Lassa, it's good to speak with you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Victor Lassa is a city councilor in San Sebastian in Spain's Basque region. It was over 30 years ago that Clifford Olson first called me.

Secret phone calls from Canada's most notorious serial killer. I knew I was killing the children, but I couldn't stop myself. Now it's time to unearth the tapes because I believe there are still answers to be found. I'm Arlene Bynum from CBC's Uncovered, Calls from a Killer, available now. As overcrowding in cities like San Sebastian continues to plague popular destinations, Paige McClanahan is focused on what it takes to be a better visitor abroad. She is the author of The New Tourist, Waking Up to the Power and Perils of Travel. She's in Paris. Paige, hello to you. Good morning, Matt. Does what you heard

from that city councillor in San Sebastian sound familiar? Oh, absolutely. I mean, the councillor's points really hit home and reminded me of things that I've heard in places like Barcelona and Hawaii and the red light district of Amsterdam. These people, they don't recognize their homes anymore. And if they grew up in that city, it looks completely different from when they were children. And I think it's such a tricky balance, right? Making sure that locals can still afford to live in their neighborhoods and can still enjoy living in their neighborhoods while keeping the city welcome for visitors.

And I think, you know, what really matters is that we travelers also take responsibility, right? You know, where we choose to stay, how we show up, can make a really big difference. It's not just on the cities or the platforms, you know, all of us have a part to play in making sure that tourism is sustainable. I mean, most people don't go abroad

to try to wreck the place that they're in, but what are the things that can happen, maybe unintentionally or without people understanding it, that can change a community? Yeah, of course, you know, I think we have a lot of impact as travelers, and it's not always obvious. I think we have more impact than we realize. And it's easy to think about the economic impact, how and where we're spending our money.

But we also, the physical presence, our body's presence in this city, we take up space. And if we're there as a day visitor, we're taking up space without actually contributing much to the local economy. We might buy a postcard and ice cream. Of a cruise ship, for example, where, as you said, 2,000 people get off a cruise ship. Exactly. And I think, from what I've heard from destinations,

is actually day visitors can be really one of the bigger challenges for places to manage. These destinations, they really want people to come and stay and linger and take the time to explore more out-of-the-way neighborhoods. And that way, you're going to build a real relationship with the place and you're actually going to spend in a way that is going to make a meaningful contribution to that community. Those are the kind of visitors that these destinations want to attract. Not like as,

you know, as the the counselor said, you know, they want people who are going to come as guests, not just as consumers, which I thought was really well put. Can I ask you about Airbnb, which gets a lot of attention, and in Spain, I mean, 60-some thousand units are now going to be off the market. People use, I mean, I wonder whether two things can be true at the same time, that they can impact the housing market, but they're popular for a reason, especially if you have a family, because they're often cheaper and there's more space in them than a hotel.

What happens if there's a bigger clampdown on them? Will you see, well, just from your perspective, what do you think will happen? Well, you know, as a mother myself who has traveled a lot with my kids, I can certainly appreciate the value of having a home to be able to stay in. You know, if you have your toddlers who need a nap

in the middle of the day and you need some space for them to play, I get that. You know, I think if we see a big clampdown on Airbnb in Spain, you know what, the tourism industry, it is dynamic, it's going to adapt and new opportunities are going to come up. There are already a whole lot of really sustainable alternatives to Airbnb in places like Spain and across Europe. I mean, there's a platform called FairB&B, which is a cooperative platform that's really good and has good coverage in Spain.

There are also things like home swaps. If you are a family and you really want to have that whole home experience, sign up for a site like Home Exchange or Kindred, which allows you to exchange your home for the home of a family and the place that you're visiting. So there are a lot of really creative alternatives and I think that travelers who are interested in finding that, having that experience, will still be able to find them.

How do you, if you're a region that generates a lot of income from tourism, how do you square that circle? You're in Paris right now, and one in 10 jobs in Paris are based in the tourism industry. Billions of dollars come in to that city. I mean, one in 10 jobs in Paris are based in the tourism industry. Billions of dollars come in to that city. I mean, it's choked with tourists, but billions of dollars come in through tourism. And you can imagine there are people in Paris

who are like, enough already, I want my city back. If you are running a city, how do you manage to get the city back, but also not turn your nose up at enormous sums of revenue that come in? Absolutely, I mean, tourism is such a powerful economic force and it sustains so many countries turn your nose up at enormous sums of revenue that come in. Absolutely. I mean, tourism is such a powerful economic force and it sustains so many communities. I mean, I live in Paris now, but for five years,

I lived in a little village in the French Alps that was wholly dependent on tourism. And without tourism, this place would have been a ghost town a generation ago. The really important factor in managing tourism is that the government, first of all, needs to wake up and pay attention. town a generation ago. The really important factor in managing tourism is that the government, first of all, needs to wake up and pay attention.

You know, some governments, it took them a long time to realize this is, as the counselor said, an industry that needs regulating. They need to listen to their residents, right? Resident rights have to come before tourist interests. And what those specific solutions are going to look like are going to vary based on each place. But the most important thing is that there's that strong link

between the government and their community, and that the government is listening and prioritizing the interests of their residents. Is restricting tourism in overcrowded destinations the solution? The counselor said there are other places that might want tourists. Maybe you want to think about going there

instead of coming here. I mean, absolutely. I would just underline that point first, is that there are so many places that are really eager to welcome tourists, even within Spain. I mean, the city of Madrid spent 36 million euros last year on a global marketing campaign, you know, only in Madrid that's really looking to bring tourists into the city. But yeah, I campaign, you know, only in Madrid, that's really looking to bring tourists into the city. But yeah, I think, you know, finding those places that are looking to attract visitors is really one of the most powerful choices that we can make as tourists. And sometimes that means that might mean, you know, avoiding the most popular cities,

the most popular times of year, but it gives us a chance to explore kind of lesser known regions or cities and have an experience where we're not just feeling crowded by other tourists around us. It'd be a more enjoyable and rewarding experience overall. What do you see as the value of tourism? I mean, so many of us travel the world if we can and whenever we can, if we can afford it,

because you want to engage with people and things and places that you wouldn't see otherwise. And you hope that in the best case scenario that broadens your perspective. You might also want to go and just bring something, you know, trinket back for somebody else. But what do you see as the value of travel and tourism? You know, I think tourism isn't just this frivolous thing

that we do when we go on vacation. It's easy to think about tourism in that way. But if you think about it, tourism is one of the most powerful social forces on the planet. And if we do it right, tourism can really push us out of our comfort zones and it can help us build real human connections across real deep cultural divides or political divides. If we think about what we're facing as a species and the crises that might be on the horizon,

whether it's a pandemic even worse than COVID or climate collapse or explosion of inequality, I mean, these are all global problems that require global solidarity. And travel has the potential to help us build that solidarity and to challenge the ignorance and indifference that divide us. And so I think, you know, staying at home and never kind of crossing a border isn't going to help us prepare as a species for the future that's coming for us. I mean, travel is also, of course, a really

beautiful and joyful way to, you know, live life and experience the world. So I think it's all in the how, right? We all need to pay attention and be really thoughtful in our decision-making and we can all like help work together to make tourism a force that does more good than harm in the world. So in the last two minutes, you just said something interesting, which is if we do it right,

how do we do it right? How do we be a good tourist? Yeah, well, it's, you know, we have to take the time to educate ourselves about the impact of our presence on the place. That's a really huge step. We have to be ready to ask ourselves some hard questions. You know, who is going to benefit from my presence in this place and who might pay the price for my presence in this place? We also need to travel with a real amount, with a huge amount of curiosity, humility, and a deep respect for the people whose homes

we're coming to visit. We need to remember that we are always guests in somebody else's home. This isn't just like an item to tick off a list. We need to travel with a real search for connection. And that's those two things. Educate yourself about impact. Travel with an open heart and open mind. Get outside of your comfort zone. I think those two things can really help us get there. What about for our kids? How do we teach our kids to be good tourists? I mean, they're learning from us in some ways.

Yeah, I think show them by living this yourself, be a good role model, encourage them to sort of get outside their comfort zones, trying new foods, experiencing new cultures. I was in Morocco with my kids last year and we had dinner on the hour last night. We had dinner with our tour guide in his home and they got to meet these Moroccan kids

who were sitting there having dinner, eating the couscous out of the middle of the table and with the Quran in the corner. A really beautiful, deep, immersive experience that taught my kids what connection across cultures can look like. And I think it's a wonderful thing to do with our children. So I would encourage everybody to try.

I thought the counselor's comment just finally was really interesting. Ask people where you're going, what they love about the place that they're in. That's what we, wherever you are, when somebody says to you, where should I go for dinner tonight? You tell them your kind of place.

And if you do that to somebody else, maybe that opens up that sense of connection. Yeah, absolutely. You know, just asking those simple questions, you know, whether it's with the person at the front desk of your hotel or, you know, the tour guide, if you hire a tour guide for a day, or, you know, somebody who's working at the museum.

Ask for recommendations, and that's a wonderful way to open up a conversation and meet a local person. And that's what travel is really all about. Paige, thank you very much for this. Thank you so much for having me. Paige McLenahan is a journalist based in France and the author of The New Tourist,

Waking Up to the Power and Perils of Travel. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.