The Current - Premiers focus on US tariff threat at annual meeting

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

New Brunswick Premier Susan Holt joins us from PEI where provincial and territorial leaders have put aside their annual meeting agenda to focus on the threat of new 50 per cent tariffs from the US. She tells us how this could impact her province and what leaders will ask of the Prime Minister as they set to meet with him later today.

Hi, Steve Patterson here, host of the debaters, and while I love a funny fight, there's one thing that's not up for debate. The Stratford Festival is world-class theater right here in Canada. Whether you're a fan of Shakespeare, musicals, or classics like Death of a Salesman or Waiting for Godot, there's no better time to experience Canadian talent and no better place to see it than the Stratford Festival. So get your tickets now at Stratfordfestable.cai and experience world-class performance the whole family can enjoy. You know, we even taped the debaters there once, so I guess we're world-class now. This is a CBC podcast.

Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. The threat of more tariffs from the U.S. has taken over the agenda at the premier's meeting on Prince on Rhode Island this week. In fewer than 30 days, hundreds of Canadian products ranging from electronics and lumber to dairy and agriculture could face 50% tariffs. The White House cites the, quote, discriminatory treatment of American alcohol, auto, and dairy products. U.S. President Donald Trump defended the tariffs yesterday. Canada has been very, very tough on us over the years, and no other president's done anything

about it. I love Canada. I love the people of Canada. I mean, in all fairness to them, they need us to survive. Without us, there's no way they can survive. One major sticking point is the ban in many provinces on U.S. alcohol sales. The Distilled Spirits Council of the U.S. says exports to Canada plunged 63 percent in 2025, with every province except Alberta and Saskatchewan keeping American liquor off-store shelves. And yesterday, BC Premier David Eby vowed to keep that ban in place. As a country that we know what we stand for, we know who our friends are, and we're willing to stand up for those things. There is not a chance in hell that U.S. alcohol is going back on the shelf in British Columbia.

And I'm proud of that, and I know the British Columbians support that. The premiers met virtually with Prime Minister Mark Carney yesterday and would, We'll meet with him in person tomorrow. But divisions are emerging on the best path forward. Ontario Premier Doug Ford and Alberta Premier, Daniel Smith, for example, had different views on potential retaliation. If these talks fail in 29 days, we need to hit them back as hard as we can. I'm tired of the bully trying to take our lunch money all the time.

We always seem to be on our back heels. We need to be on the offense. I think of Doug Ford basically alluding that, like oil and potash could be used as retaliatory measures. Well, that's not going to happen. I think that what will happen is that we're going to have a pretty intense period over the next 29 days. And I hope that diplomacy will prevail and the best interests of both their countries will prevail. Joining me now is New Brunswick Premier Susan Holt.

She is in Charlottown for the meeting. Premier, good morning. Good morning, Rebecca. New Brunswick, one of the hardest provinces hit by U.S. tariffs. what has been your response this week after hearing the Trump wants even more tariffs in place? Oh, to be honest, it feels like Groundhog Day. This is where we were a little more than a year ago, that January, February, March period of 2025, when Trump was threatening these tariffs and those tariffs, they were going to be on tomorrow. Oh, no, they were going to be on in a month's time. And it really put a chill on our economy.

It created the kind of uncertainty that's really bad for business. but then in the end, we leveraged Kuzma and the exemptions that we had, and only a few specific sectors were hit in quite a painful way. So it's hard to take anything that comes out of Trump's mouth at full value, because we've just known and seen from him that he will change things on a daily basis. But Canada's in a strong position. The provinces all agree that we need to hold the line and continue. what we've been doing and prepare and see where we are in 29 days.

And where do you fall between what we heard from Premier Doug Ford versus the Premier of Alberta on how best to approach Trump? Is it hold the line, as you've called it, but is it retaliation, tariff for tariff? Or is it somewhere else in the middle? Well, I think what you'll notice as the similarities between what those premiers said is the question of timing. You know, right now, we're taking in what the president said and what he suggested he would do in 28 days from now. But what we've seen from this president is that he doesn't always deliver on these threats of unjustified tariffs that are a violation of Kuzma. So we prepare and we determine what we might choose to do in 28 days if he comes through on this particular threat. but we don't react.

We don't have a knee-jerk reaction or an emotional reaction like we often see from the president. Instead, we prepare, we identify what we could do. I think a lot of Americans know what a great relationship they've had with Canada and how strong the trading relationship has been, as well as how much they depend on a number of our resources and products. Certainly speaking for New Brunswick, we ship a lot of wood products to the U.S. It's the best wood for home building, which is something that the U.S. really needs right now. We ship them a lot of energy products, the gas that goes in their car, the fuel that goes in their fighter jets, the energy products they use to heat and cool their homes.

These are things that they need. And so the relationship's been mutually beneficial. Trump's tariffs are going to drive up the cost of living. They're going to hurt the American people. They have been for the last year and a half. And so we use the tools we have to push to negotiate. a fair deal and get this done once and for all. Talk to me a little bit about the softwood lumber in New Brunswick.

That's a huge deal for you guys in that province. Tariffs on softwood lumber have been in place now for a while. How have you been dealing with that? And what has that meant for your businesses who are in that industry? Thank you for bringing up softwood lumber because that is our biggest pain point. And with tariffs at 45%, our industry has been incredibly resilient through challenges that most businesses would not be able to withstand. And certainly we've seen across the country,

our colleagues in BC and in Quebec in Saskatchewan, to some extent, mill closures and curtailments that have really hurt workers in this space. Our industry has been collaborating, belt tightening, getting innovative, and we've been working with them and supporting them to make sure we can keep people employed and keep jobs going. But we can't continue under 45% tariffs forever, forever, certainly.

And so we've been negotiating. The sector has come together across Canada in ways I haven't seen before. There's a unity nationally on the position from our forestry companies and what kind of quotas. The U.S. isn't even fulfilling that we know we could put on the table and looking for that opportunity to negotiate a new deal with the Americans. One of the big sticking points has been alcohol. There was some good news,

yesterday on that front, at least on the Canadian front, nine premiers say they're updating rules to allow more Canadian brewers and distillers to sell alcohol directly to Canadian consumers outside of their home provinces. So what does that mean for you in New Brunswick? Yeah, this was great news. New Brunswick was the first province to do this last August of 2025. We gave New Brunswickers access to all the incredible craft alcohol, wine and spirit products that are made across Canada. And then we have been encouraging our colleagues to do the same because I think as many of your listeners would know, New Brunswick is a mecca of excellent craft beer as well as

some fantastic ciders and spirits and wines that I think the rest of the country would like to have access to. So our industry, our amazing producers are thrilled that the folks in Ontario and soon to be Quebec and Nova Scotia and BC will now be able to get access to New Brunswick's incredible products. And if I can add, Rebecca, we've seen since we took U.S. booze off the shelves, New Brunswickers have responded with such loyalty and patriotism. We saw sales of New Brunswick products go up by 25%. We saw sales of Canadian products go up by 10%. And that's continued to the point where when we tried to sell off some of our old U.S. stock that we still had

in inventory, it didn't go, it didn't move. Nobody wanted to buy it. There's a real sense that even if those products were on the shelves right now, Canadians are backing our own country and we're going to be our own best customer because we don't need the American products right now when it's in the best interest of our country to come together and be the kind of team Canada that we've all been sharing for through the FIFA games. So you're not putting the back on the shelf anytime soon, those American products? Absolutely not. It's not what New Brunswickers want. It's not in the best interest of our country or our province. Talk to me a little bit about the tariffs,

at provinces' weak points. How much do you think the ongoing tariff pressure and uncertainty impacts Canada's national unity? There are many different interests at play here. That's right. And I think that's the strategy on the Americans' part, is to try to find ways that they could divide provinces by picking specific things that they want to go after, that they know have, you know, a unique presence in one province or another.

But we see that. And we have been fighting together as Team Canada, for, gosh, pretty much since I got elected, about 1920 months ago, it was December of 24 when all the premiers got together in the face of these tariff threats and agreed that we can't be hived off and made to fight against each other, that we're going to be in constant conversation and make sure that Team Canada continues to stand together in the face of these threats and supports each other. Like I said, we're going to be each other's best customers.

And we can buy from BC and Saskatchewan, whether we're talking about steel products or wood products or other things that are exposed to tariffs and support each other through this because if we fracture apart, then it's going to be bad for all of us. I know you had a virtual meeting with the prime minister yesterday. You're having an in-person meeting on Thursday. What have you heard from the prime minister and what more do you expect to hear and going forward so that, you're going. you're all on the same page because I think, you know, the unity part is a big, a big thing we've been hearing. Well, one thing that this prime minister has been very good at is frequent, clear, frank communications with the premiers. It's something we really appreciate. The fact that he can make himself available, that we can all get together and speak really bluntly about what's happening behind the scenes, make sure that we're all on the same page about

what the strategy is, who's doing what, who's talking to whom. We each. have different relationships with state governors and Senate folks and folks in the president's orbit, just folks in industry and align the effort. And the prime minister, I think like all of us, see, he sees a bit of a silver lining in this, right? It's clear that we've gotten under Donald Trump's skin. It's clear that things like the alcohol ban are irritating enough to him to make him react in rash ways.

And that creates an opening at the negotiation table. You know, once you know that you've found an irritant for your partner across the table, then it's something you can leverage. And so I hope this means that we have some urgency to get a deal. Now, whether we can rely on that deal or not is another question. But the prime minister and his team have been looking to get the best deal for Canada and not rushing to do it toward a bad deal. And the premiers, Canada's premiers, support them.

And if you were a betting woman, do you think these 50% Harris will ever see the light of day? Oh, gosh. I'm not a betting woman. Certainly not betting on what President Trump might or might not do. But I have a lot of confidence in Canada's position. We have the people. We have the resources.

We have premiers and a prime minister that are looking out for Canadian workers and Canadian businesses and entrepreneurs. We're going to do what's best for Canada. And we have friends all around the world that are doing more and more business with us. So we're going to get through this. and we'll be stronger on the other side. Premier Holt, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for this.

Thank you very much, Rebecca. Have a great day. That was the premier of New Brunswick, Susan Holt. She was in Charlottetown. Hi, Steve Patterson here, host of the debaters. And while I love a funny fight, there's one thing that's not up for debate. The Stratford Festival is world-class theater

right here in Canada. Whether you're a fan of Shakespeare, musicals, or classics like Death of a Salesman or Waiting for Godot, there's no better time to experience Canadian talent and no better place to see it than the Stratford Festival. So get your tickets now at straptfordfestable.ca and experience world-class performance the whole family can enjoy. You know, we even tape the debaters there once, so I guess we're world-class now.

Hi, it's Thomas LeBlanc, host of Celine Understood, a deep dive into the cultural, political, and economic alchemy that created Celine Dion. And there are more seasons have understood. Follow our feet to learn more about other big stories in the news, like the rise and fall of cryptoking Sam Bankman-Fried, or the controversy behind another notable Quebec institution, Pornhub. And if you're already a follower, thanks.

Please tell your friends about us. David Cochran is the host of CBC's power and politics and is on the ground in Charlottetown. David, good morning. Hi, Rebecca. How are you? Doing well. You were listening to the premier there, Susan Holt. Given what you're hearing from her

and what you've been hearing on the ground, how aligned are the premiers along with the federal government? Is there approach in lockstep with one another? Yeah, I think for the most part, I think the premier gave a pretty good summary of it there, that they're all united on the main goal, right? End the mega vandalism of the Canadian economy, try to get some stability, try to get things to a point where business can feel like they can plan

without the rules of engagement constantly changing and they can unlock some investment. There is some disagreement, I think, on the best tactics to use, right? The Doug Ford versus Daniel Smith dynamic that you laid out there earlier, that's been there since the beginning of this, right? That Daniel Smith made very clear do not use our oil reserves as a bargaining chip to protect central Canadian industry. And if you look at the referendum coming up there in October, you can imagine what an export tax on oil or potash would do to the Western separat. movement that you see in Alberta. But I think, yes, broadly, they're behind the federal government. They get that communication. They get the updates. Mark Carney, the prime minister, treats them with

respect, even when he's disappointing them with what he has to say. But they're all focused on the end goal. It's just staying on track, Rebecca, when you're dealing with Donald Trump, I mean, it's like trying to put a toddler into a snowsuit. It seems like it should be an easy thing to do, but it takes a lot more effort than you'd expect. about the separatist movement in Alberta, how does Mark Carney have to sort of weigh what's happening there and in Quebec with how he's approaching Donald Trump? Well, it's interesting. If you look at these latest tariffs, the 50% 338 tariffs that were announced, those almost surgically target British Columbia, Ontario, and Quebec. Saskatchewan and Alberta,

which have American booze back on their shelves, they are largely spared from what is in these retaliatory moves against our retaliatory moves as a country that came out of the White House. So you can see Donald Trump trying to apply pressure on the fault lines of the Canadian economy and the fault lines of Canadian federalism. And so this is the challenge that any prime minister has, but certainly this prime minister in this particular moment is how to calibrate all of these things and how to manage your responses. I mean, you have a White House, which acts as if the Indian Union's, you have a White House, which acts as if

the international order does not exist, agreements that you sign in good faith have no meaning, and every interaction is a transactional one with an opportunity to extort using your leverage. And you have a Quebec election coming up, you have an Alberta referendum coming up, and then you have just the general anxiety that's spread throughout the Canadian economy. So, you know, Mark Carney has for this job because he said he likes to show up in a crisis, and I think he's got everything he wanted on that front at this point. So it's a tricky calibration, right? But the premiers right now compared to when this started, I think,

in the final days of the Trudeau administration, the early days of the Trump administration, they're in a better position in terms of being together and clear-eyed on things. You know, the prime minister was asked yesterday by our CBC colleague J.P. Tasker, whether provinces should take the same. step of putting U.S. alcohol back on the shelves. And here's what Mark Carney had to say. The decision to change that first and foremost will be taken by the provinces themselves, each individually, and should only be taken in my judgment, as part of an overall agreement.

And that's what we'll work to accomplish it. Is there any sense yet of what overall agreement could look like? Well, I mean, they want everything settled all at once, right? They don't want to keep doing these piecemeal little extortionary exercises on different parts of the Canadian economy, what I wonder is, is that what the U.S. wants? You know, yes, the United States business community wants that, but what about the administration? Because what we've seen so far is, you know, you can't even open the Gordi Howe bridge with an agreement that's been in place for decades, without that being a point of leverage, right? So it seems like rather than doing an overall comprehensive agreement, the United States sort of wants to pick apart all the individuals,

pieces of the economy and apply leverage against each one to try to, you know, put a thumb on the scale in favor of the United States and using market access and economic and political dominance to do that. So this is the challenge. I mean, the prime minister, I think, is saying there they don't want to, okay, we'll take the booze off the shelves and settle that irritant, but you get no credit for this with this administration. Jameson Greer made that point, the trade representative did in Aspen last week on all the concessions Canada has made to this point, essentially saying Canada made a mess, you don't get credit and bonus points for cleaning up your own mess. So that's the challenge, is they want steel, aluminum, auto, Kuzma, you know, lumber,

all of it solved all at the same time. But it takes two willing parties to do that. And at this point, it's unclear to everyone I've spoken to here in Charlottetown and back in Ottawa that the United States agrees with that rather than wanting to keep it on this transactional Canada on its heels under constant. pressure from the United States because it's working in the American interests in some sectors. The Prime Minister met with all of the premiers virtually, I understand, this week and is going to meet with them again in person in Charlottetown. What do you expect to come out of that meeting?

Well, it's going to be, it's going to depend, I think, quite a bit on where the mood is with the premiers after a couple of days of ruminate on this, how much of their own original agenda they can get back on track. They want to have a serious conversation with the Prime Minister about at increasing health care transfers, you know, which is a sign that federalism was going back to normal, but I'm not sure that's going to get there. And it also depends on what we hear out of the United States. But, you know, Mark Carney told the premiers yesterday in the meeting, according to what I have heard, that, you know, they are going to intensify negotiations. They see this as an opportunity to move this into an end game, but also accept the reality that this could just be another

dead end, right? And he's told them all to prepare for there to be no deal, look for leverage, and figure out which ways this leverage can be applied. So I suspect by Thursday there will be more conversations on that. Because what the prime minister also told the premiers yesterday is that he expected at some point in these negotiations, Donald Trump will put a countdown clock on things. The initial idea was that could be through giving the six-month notice that they're formally, the United States would formally withdraw from the entire Kuzma pack, so putting a six-month clock. Now it's a 30-day clock, and they've got to figure it out. Yeah. Okay. David Cochran, thank you for this. You got it. Thank you. David Cochran is the host of CBC's power and politics.

You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.