The Current - Provinces, small businesses brace for economic uncertainty

Episode Date: August 25, 2026

Prime Minister Mark Carney has vowed dollar-for-dollar retaliatory tariffs as the United States' latest 50 per cent levy on a swath of Canadian goods has come into effect following the collapse of trade negotiations between Ottawa and Washington. New Brunswick Premier Susan Holt offers her perspective on the road ahead, and a pair of small business owners lay out the economic reality before them.

Between tariffs, trade battles, and an ongoing war in the Middle East, the lazy days of summer seem to have skipped Washington this year. So our podcast, Two Blocks from the White House, is here to keep you caught up, even if you're in vacation mode. Join me, Katie Simpson with correspondence Paul Hunter and Willie Lowry and other journalists from our D.C. Bureau for a front row seat and what this all means for Canadians. Find and follow two blocks from the White House with new episodes every Wednesday in your favorite podcast app, including YouTube.

This is a CBC podcast. I'm Susan Ormiston, and this is the current podcast. There is a mutually beneficial deal possible here, but it has to be one that respects Canada's sovereignty, that respects our independence, that uses our complementary strengths to build something better, not tear apart for short-term gain. Prime Minister Mark Carney speaking in Quebec yesterday,

as the dust continues to settle following the collapse of trade negotiations between Canada and the United States. The day after those talks were called off, the Prime Minister met with Canada's premiers to discuss the road ahead, a road that includes support for workers and businesses, as well as threats of counter tariffs, all expected to be unveiled this morning by the federal government. New Brunswick Premier Susan Holt will be watching closely, and she joins me from Fredericton. Premier Holt, good morning. Good morning, Susan. You heard there the Prime Minister speaking about a potential, he says, to build something better. The Americans, though, have made it pretty clear. They'll pursue further

action if Canada follows through with counter tariffs. And we expect to hear more about that later this morning. How much do you worry that this is becoming a kind of downward spiral? Well, it has felt like a bit of a downward spiral with the U.S. ever since President Trump first threatened tariffs almost two years ago. We've gotten threats upon threats. Some he's followed through on, some he hasn't. And it's been a roller coaster ride for everyone. So we need to stand up to a bully. We need to defend our country, our province, our economy, and certainly our independence. And so this is where we find ourselves today. There's a lot of talk now. U.S. President Donald Trump posted a message online yesterday.

mainly directed at Ontario's Premier, Doug Ford and Prime Minister Mark Carney, saying, and I'm quoting here, someone should get those clowns to fall in line or the consequences for Canada will be far worse in caps there. What do you think Canada needs to prepare for with that kind of talk from the U.S. President? Well, we've heard a lot of talk from the U.S. President, and as I say, much of it he doesn't follow through on. So we need to prepare for what we see today, the 50% tariffs that they've put on across the Canadian economy on specific products and sectors. That's going to have a negative impact on New Brunswick businesses. And so our provincial government is getting ready to support them with the funds and the tools that we have in place. And I know the federal government is doing the same. They have rhetoric that they're going to ratchet up this trade war.

we will see whether that's the case. We know that there are reasonable people somewhere there behind the scenes that we can engage with and negotiate with. And so the goal is to get back to the negotiating table and try to find the kind of stability that Canadians are looking for, certainly that our entrepreneurs and our workers that are looking for. Is it still the goal to get back to the table? Oh, I think that's what everyone wants. It's, even though it can be to trust that once an agreement is signed, it will be worth the paper it's written on, that the president will honor any agreement signed. But I think the goal is to get to a place where we have the kind of free and fair trade. Like the Prime Minister just said, our two countries have

done a lot of things together, a lot of impressive things economically. And North America has long been a strong, stable part of the global economy. We want to get back there. I think, though, that some people are wondering if this tit for tat, which seems to be getting bigger, is helpful to getting back to the table. I mean, that post from Donald Trump I just referenced came after Premier Ford shared some pretty pointed words. I'm sure you heard them yesterday from for the president in a radio interview. Ford took questions from reporters about those comments yesterday afternoon. I'm just going to share that with our listeners. You sound a little more subdued than you did this morning on the radio when you said Donald Trump could kiss your ass.

Did the prime minister tell you to ask you to tone it down a bit? No, he didn't. I'm not going to comment, but he wasn't against that. And I have a lot of real estate on my ass, so he has a lot of room to kiss my ass. Hard not to laugh, but does that kind of talk from Premier Ford make you laugh or cringe? Well, it is hard not to laugh, especially. You could see the smirks on the people behind him as he was conducting that. I think it shows the frustration that we're all experiencing with a completely irrational trading partner

who changes the terms at the last minute, who isn't as serious about supporting the U.S. economy and their people. And so we have to look after ourselves, but we can't make concessions and compromise our values in the face of a bully. Canada is doing, and New Brunswick is certainly a part of this. We're getting out into the world and finding new trading partners and new allies and folks that want to integrate New Brunswick products into their supply chains. And we are going to get stronger in the face of this U.S. instability. Premier, of course, you have had strong trading relationships with Maine close to you. And I want to play you something that came from the U.S. Vice President, J.D. Vance,

yesterday speaking to a crowd in Maine. I frankly thought we had a deal. I think that we should have a deal, but I think that we need to send a message loud and clear to the Prime Minister of Canada. Stop taking advantage of the people of Maine. Stop taking advantage of America. It's over. We expect fairness in our trade policy. How do you respond to that?

Are you taking advantage of Maine, Premier? I think New Brunswick and Maine have been the very best neighbors for generations. We share a border. and it is a peaceful border. We have highly integrated economies where companies move, you know, from pulp to wood across the border, from lobster to processed lobster

and blueberries across the border. We move electrons and energy across the border. Both ways, we are family. And we really support each other. When we were experiencing wildfires last year, Maine sent help. When Maine has challenges, New Brunswick sends help. I think Maine has been caught

with a president that doesn't have any interest in their success because what this president has done to things like lumber prices and others has hurt Maine. And so I can peel out the words that J.D. Vance just said and agree. We want to get to a deal, as he said. We want to get to free and fair trade with the U.S., as he said. But what I see from the folks of Maine who are coming into New Brunswick in great numbers this tourism season is people who are embarrassed and who apologize to us. for their way their country has been treating Canada and New Brunswick, and they, like us, want to get back to the good relations that we have across the border.

Look, there's an event, Susan, I have to tell you about. Every year, the people of Callas and the people of St. Stephen, walk across the bridge at the border, meet in the middle, have cake, celebrate and hug each other, and demonstrate that we have strong, peaceful ties with our neighbors in Maine. and that's going to continue regardless of who's in the White House. I hope so. But, you know, there's been talk in the country since all this happened about throttling energy exports to the U.S. Your province exports electricity to Maine.

Would you throttle that? Oh, that's a really sensitive question because the electricity that we send to northern Maine powers their hospital, powers some communities that don't have any other alternatives for energy right now. and we also receive energy from Maine. But what we also do, Susan, is we provide gas to almost every car in Boston. We provide the fuel that goes into the U.S. Department of Wars jet planes that leave from the New England area. We keep those homes heated and air conditioned because our energy exports, our petroleum products,

are some of the largest exports that the refinery here at New Brunswick sends to the entire area of New England. and they need those products and they need them reliably. Would there be any circumstance where you would be persuaded to send less? It's certainly something that we have talked about internally, knowing that it's a really serious step. It's the kind of thing that you reserve for extreme points in trade wars like this. We're not there yet. But we have that tool in our toolkit.

And so when President Trump thinks that he doesn't need Canada, I think he should talk to the people in Maine, New England and Massachusetts about what they rely on from Canada and what they would do without it. Premier, with the minute we have left, we are going to hear something this morning about tariff relief. What does your province need? What needs to be prioritized when federal ministers unveil their plans this morning? We're looking for flexibility. Each business is going to experience these new tariffs differently because of the way that they're structured.

and some of these businesses are going to need income supports for their workers to make up for the loss of business that they're going to experience. And they're in all sorts of different sectors and different situations. So we're looking for a program from the federal government that is flexible and that is responsive.

You know, really low levels of red tape so that the access can come in a timely way through this period of trade instability. And hopefully we can get back to something sooner than later where these businesses won't be faced with this kind of 50% tariff threat and we can get back to free and fair trade. And in the meantime, we're going to help them find new customers because the world wants what New Brunswick has and what Canada has to offer.

And our team and our businesses are aggressively getting out in the world to take advantage of that opportunity. Premier, thank you so much. Thank you very much. New Brunswick Premier Susan Holt was in Fredericton. Something is happening in Dawson Creek. A wave of violence has swept over this community of just 13,000 people. It's like the kind of stuff you only hear about on TV.

15 murders in the last five years. Some criminals, I put them into the category of supervillains. I'm Timothy Sawa and from CBC's On Cover and the Fifth Estate, an investigation into deaths and disappearances in Dawson Creek and what's behind it all. I'm not saying another word, leave me alone. The Mile Zero Murders, available now on CBC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts. Many small businesses across the country are feeling the direct impact of these new tariffs. Ben Eadie, for example, is the owner of VFCOMs, a maker of radio communication antennas based in Alberta.

His products are among those that are hit with the new 50% tariffs. Ben's in Calgary. Good morning. Good morning, Susan. Hey, Ben, how is it going? What will these tariffs mean? for your business? Right now as it stands, I've got about a runway to land on that's the end of September. And if I don't get some help or something gets solved, then I'm basically done. And you make antennas, correct?

That's correct. And people need those in the U.S. Most of your business? Yeah, 90% of my business. And it is a hobby antenna that I use for ham radio, but I was just recently expanding out into U.S. military and U.S. parks for rescue antennas and military antennas. So, yeah, I just at a critical juncture of growing, I'm being hit here. Oh, gosh. So when you heard on Friday night or Saturday morning, perhaps, that there was no deal,

what were your first thoughts? Honestly, I just went numb, and I spent Saturday just kind of being a zombie running around, going, like, you know, what can I do? And I'm the kind of person that doesn't, you know, try to mull on the fact that, you know, this has happened. It's, I need to find something that I can do or a path. And I can't find that path. And I need a little bit of help as far as that goes. What kind of help?

Well, you've got financial help, but I don't necessarily think that's going to how is going to be like, you know, it's a band-aid for a bigger problem. You know, expanding out into different markets into the UK and stuff are definitely. things that I can do, the issue is that, you know, you've got red tape and expanding into any market is not something you can do in just a few weeks. You know, maybe the Canadian military could, I used to be in the infantry and I think that my intent is would solve some very real problems that they have, but even trying to navigate the procurement system that the military has is difficult. I know that the prime minister has changed things so that it is easier to, as a small business, this sells to the military.

But, you know, those things are, like a lot of those roadblocks are still there. People are running through the old systems. And it's difficult. And I don't know where to go. Ben, you make a good point there. Do you support the government walking away from these talks? 100%. The second that you are, you know, threatening our sovereignty and our ability to make decisions

autonomously is an absolute hard no from me as far as any country having over top of us. So there's, yeah, I agree a whole bunch, like a whole bunch. I agree wholeheartedly. It's just a matter of, you know, maybe I'm going to be a casualty of this war. I don't know. And it's just going to have to be something I accept if it does happen that way. Wow. So in the minute we have left, what is your first priority now heading to September?

Well, in about an hour or so, I'm going to talk to my one employee, and we're going to try to come up with a plan. And unfortunately, she just is coming back from a holiday and I got to go, we've got to figure things out. Otherwise, both of us are out of work in a few weeks. Gosh, Ben. Well, I really appreciate you sharing this with us because there's a lot of talk going on at high levels, isn't there? There is. And the one thing with the high level people, the one thing I want is I need a path forward. I need something tangentially. that I can grab onto. Saying, you know, there's going to be supports doesn't mean that I can access them. There's a prairie support system or prairie tariff system right now, but I don't quite meet all the requirements. So that's out of the way. So, you know, they can say a lot of great news clips, but that doesn't help me. Right. We may hear a little bit more about that this morning, fleshing out some responses. Ben, really appreciate you talking to us. Yeah, thank you. Ben,

is the owner of VF Coms, a maker of radio antennas in Calgary. Joey Walsh is the founder and CEO of Hockey Stickman, Inc., which produces and sells hockey sticks and other equipment. Also the target of these new tariffs. He employs 80 people and joins us from Toronto. Good morning, Joey. Good morning, Susan. You know, the tariff on hockey sticks seems pretty symbolic. Why did they target you?

Well, I think that they targeted us because of more so polis. The United States does not manufacture hockey sticks, and they don't really have an opportunity to anytime soon. It's very complicated process. So I think it's more about the politics. I think it's more about digging in and trying to get under our skin more than it is actual policy. How do these tariffs impact your business? They impact us. Unlike Ben, where you're really threatened, our business is actually threatened more on perception.

because the reality is that Canada or United States don't really manufacture many hockey sticks. We get them made somewhere else. So we have people in the United States that buy sticks from us that are probably going to be questioning whether they can, even though they have no impact on the new tariffs coming in. Right. So your sticks are made sort of offshore in other countries and then imported into the U.S., but you're worrying about a cooling off of people looking at your business saying, hey, it's more expensive now.

Is that it? 100%. Yeah, it's going to be a big challenge to get back to them. And, you know, they're going to worry about it. Everybody's been asking me, like, oh, how are you going to make out through this? And the reality is that like eight months ago, 12 months ago, when they import, when they put tariffs on China and other countries, that had a lot more impact than and the Canadian tariffs.

But this is pretty pointed. This is a president standing up and saying, you know, don't buy hockey sticks from Canada. And I sell, you know, 100,000 hockey sticks into the U.S. every year. So it's a pretty big punch in the guy for us. So what do you think of the government imposing counter tariffs, retaliatory tariffs, against the U.S.? It's a difficult one.

You know, and I think, you know, I, you know, I heard you talk earlier to the New Brunswick Premier there. And, you know, I don't have things against the U.S. and the U.S. businesses. So, you know, going after them, the way they've gone after us is it, you know, it could be counterproductive. Same with, you know, the U.S., one thing they do make is they do make hockey tape. So all of our hockey tape is in the U.S. So they start putting counterteriffs on it.

The biggest thing it'll do immediately is it'll increase the price of hockey tape for all my customers and really anybody who sells hockey tape in Canada. So I guess you've got to do what you've got to do, but it's a slippery slope and a challenging thing to get into. Sounds like you're worried. Yeah, to say the least. Oh, gosh. Well, Joey, thank you so much for helping us understand the real impact. of these tariffs and what's to come. We wish you good luck and good business.

Thank you, Susan. I appreciate it. Joey Walsh is the founder and CEO of Hockey Stick Man, Inc. You've been listening to the current podcast. I'm Susan Ormiston. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca.com.