The Current - She was abused by her stepfather — and her mother stayed with him

Episode Date: June 19, 2025

A powerful documentary about a woman breaking the silence around sexual abuse in her family. Robin Heald was abused for years by her stepfather — and her mother stayed with him - even after he pleaded guilty. In It Ends With Me, CBC producer John Chipman follows Robin’s journey back into that past — and how she’s working to stop the cycle for future generations.

Ten years ago, I asked my partner Kelsey if she would marry me. I did that, despite the fact that every living member of my family who had ever been married had also gotten divorced. Forever is a Long Time is a five-part series in which I talk to those relatives about why they got divorced and why they got married. You can listen to it now on CBC's Personally. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is the current podcast. You might remember the headlines. Last summer, Andrea Skinner, daughter of renowned Canadian author Alice Monroe, revealed that she was molested by her stepfather. Her mother chose to remain with her husband

even after he was arrested, convicted and sent to prison. The news shocked the literary world as critics and fans struggled to reconcile Alice Monroe's legacy as a Nobel Prize winning author with the seemingly unfathomable choices she made in her personal life. Robin Heald was not among those who were shocked and that is because in many ways her life has mirrored Andrea Skinner's. Today we bring you the story of a daughter and a mother. This is John Chipman's documentary, It Ends With Me and a warning, this story deals with the sexual abuse of children. Testing, testing, testing. Yeah, I'm just here at Kennedy Common. I'm standing outside at Mucho Burrito, just off highway 401 that cuts through Toronto.

Here we go. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Waiting for Robin Heald, who pulls up in her well-worn red minivan. Hello. How are you? Good. So nice to meet you in person. Absolutely.

Welcome. She's heading east to Kingston, Ontario, from Kitchener, where she works, four hours away. How has the drive been so far? Well, I've had lots of company. I was chatting with Andrew briefly. It'll be a long drive, but it's a big weekend. Starting route to Heather Morrison's home. Much of the family is gathering for a birthday party It'll be a long drive, but it's a big weekend.

Much of the family is gathering for a birthday party for an older brother who's turning 60. Your mom, is your mom coming to that as well? No, no. We kind of do a Chinese wall as far as get togethers and make sure we respect everyone's boundaries as absolutely... A boundary between her family and her mom. Robin's mother had five children, four girls and a boy.

Robin is the youngest. When I was two, my parents separated and my mother moved us into an apartment. And our stepfather entered the picture as a boyfriend at that point. A man her mother would go on to marry. A relationship that would change the course of Robin's life. Up until the age of five, my stepfather groomed and abused me, and I was sexually abused quite significantly for many years. Robin was not alone.

Her stepfather was also sexually abusing her three sisters. When I was 12 years old, my oldest sister came forward and said, enough is enough. That her stepfather had been sexually abusing her. And that's the first time that family and children's services asked all the questions that they should have asked earlier. Robin's mother and stepfather signed agreements with Child Protection Services. protection services. He agreed to quote terminate all sexual behaviour with his stepchildren while she agreed to report any suspicions of sexual abuse. But little changed. Almost two years later Robin told a police officer that her stepfather had been having sexual intercourse with her quote once a month

for a couple of years. A child protection worker was present for that interview along with Robin's mother. I contacted the Smith Falls Police Service, whose officer interviewed Robin. When asked why charges weren't laid at that time, a statement from the police chief said he was not able to comment due to the historical nature of the incident. Despite Robin's allegations to police and child protection, her situation at home still didn't change. I was not removed from the home, nor was my stepfather. And you might find that alarming and in retrospect I find it absolutely astounding.

During that time frame, Family and Children's Services had a different mandate where they assessed each situation individually and decided if it was the right thing for the family to have that person removed from the home or the child removed from the home. I reached out to Family and Children's Services of Lanark Leeds and Grenville, which is responsible for child protection in the Ottawa Valley region where Robin grew up in the 70s and 80s. An official said the agency was unable to offer comment on specific cases for privacy reasons.

But she did note that there have been many regulatory and legislative changes governing the mandate and delivery of child welfare services in Ontario over the past four decades. I'm very happy to report that Family and Children's Services moved far away from that model where that is no longer the case. Unfortunately for my journey, I stayed in the home until I was kicked out when I was 16 years old. That was four years with the offender and myself as the victim in that home together with Family and Children's Services coming in for family therapy every single week.

Caseworkers would ask Robin and her sisters what was happening in the household in the presence of their stepfather. Afterwards, we would get in trouble. And then we started to each shut down. Like we said very little after that. It was not a therapeutic environment at all. And put us more at risk than helping. Robin's mother was present as well. She suspected it was going on and she heard it was going on. Yet Robin says she didn't see her mother do anything to protect her or her sisters.

Although Robin acknowledges that she might have made efforts she wasn't aware of, her mother had a common refrain. I'm doing the best I can and I truly believe it. Robin believes her mother that she really was only able to do so much. She was missing the protective instinct that a lot of parents have, where you give your children unconditional love and protection. Today, Robin is in her mid-50s. She's equal parts warmth, kindness, and a finely tuned emotional distance from her past.

Traits calibrated over decades of therapy and self-reflection and care. How long did it take you to get to this point? 55 years. A very long time. And it was like a long process. It wasn't just like... While Robin's mom won't be at the family gathering, Robin's still making a point of seeing her. They have a separate lunch planned along with Robin's sister Heather. She, we're gonna take her to Swiss Chalet, her favorite restaurant. Now I just want to clarify

one thing. I don't think I drive across the province to see my mom. When I'm back in town for another reason, I let her know. And if it's convenient for us to connect, we do. And if it's not, I don't. So that's an important distinction for you. It is, it is, for sure. What is your relationship like with your mom?

I would say tenuous and careful. It's something that has changed so very many times. It had ups and downs, a lot of hurt and heartache, and now some understanding. Robin has come to believe that her mother wasn't simply being callous while she and her sisters were being abused. She just chose to focus on other things. We were a family that missed a lot of economic stability. So there were times where a hundred percent of her focus was on making sure the mortgages paid and making sure there was enough food on the table,

providing for her family. And in her perspective that was providing for us as opposed to protecting. She didn't have the capacity to see that there was a possibility for both. While Robin wasn't getting the support and protection she needed at home or from child protection workers or police, she did find some in other places. One of the programs that I was involved in, which was hugely meaningful, was with a group of young teenagers. We had all been either abused

by fathers or stepfathers. Among the things Robin says she learned there, tips on how to fend off her stepfather's sexual advances. She was 12 years old. And that's the first time I didn't see myself in a silo, that I was the only one in the world going through this. Robin loved her support group, but it created a strange dichotomy with her home life. It was very Jekyll and Hyde-like. So I might be going after school to be with this group. We'd have pizza and we'd have like a couple of hours together.

And then I would go right back to my home where my stepfather continued to live and the only way that the abuse was stopped was when I had the strength to say no and to withstand all of the emotional abuse that happened with each and every no. You had no privileges. You know, if you looked at something the wrong way, you would be grounded. By the time she was 16, Robin started dreaming of a future away from her abusive home life. She became fixated on going to university. She knew she'd have to pay for it herself, so she got a job at a local donut shop and

started to work. A lot. I was going to school full time and I began working 40 hours a week and was almost never at home other than to sleep and at that point they still expected my chores to be done and they felt that if I was not doing all of my chores every day as expected that I shouldn't live there and they kicked me out of the home and that was really a turning point. Robin's mother says she can't remember the details about why Robin moved out. The family was living in Smiths Falls

Ontario because Robin had just turned 16. She says the local child protection agency was no longer required to help her find housing. Robin had no idea how to find a place to live. I'm a 16 year old. I looked at the ads. I don't know what's involved with all of these like apartments and room and board. And I need support as well as a place to live.

So Robin went to her high school guidance counselor for help. And she shared my story amongst our school staff team. And the vice principal's wife was good friends with a lovely woman who has rented rooms over the years to people. And she agreed to let me stay with her. Robin's new landlord became a crucial mentor. The woman taught her some important life lessons, including one Robin learned when she went

back to pick up some of her belongings from her parents' place. And when I went back and got mine, I was accused of stealing. And that's where I learned about the unconditional love of my very good friend Ruby Gilroy. You know, I was terribly upset on the phone with my mother and she asked for the phone and she told my mother, how dare you treat this person this way? And I thought, wow, that's how you love and protect people. Finally free from her abusive home life, Robyn says she continued to flourish. She and her three older sisters decided to go back to police about the abuse.

This time, Glenn Calvin Young was charged with nine sex offenses, ranging from gross indecency to sexual assault and sexual intercourse. The judicial process ended with a crown cutting a deal with him. Young pleaded guilty to four offenses, one for each of his stepdaughters. He declined a request for an interview. On April 29, 1991, Glenn Calvin Young was sentenced to two years less a day in prison, plus three years probation. Looking back, Robin wishes she'd pushed harder for a trial. That's probably one of my regrets in life. I felt the pressure from the Crown on resolving this through a plea, which is beneficial for the accused, beneficial for the system.

But I don't believe it was beneficial to me. After he began his sentence, Robin and her mother and sisters began family therapy again. Robin and her siblings told their mother she sisters began family therapy again. Robyn and her siblings told their mother she needed to make a choice. If you have our stepfather back in your life when he returns from jail, you have made the decision to not build this relationship with us. And as Robyn feared, her mother took their abuser back once he was released. The betrayal of someone choosing someone else instead of you as their child is really hard.

That's probably one of the hardest things to recover from. Is drinking raw milk safe like RFK Junior suggests? Can you reduce a glucose spike if you eat your food in quote unquoteunquote the right order? I'm registered dietitian Abby Sharp. I host a nutrition myth busting podcast called Bite Back with Abby Sharp and those are just some of the questions I tackle with qualified experts on my show. On Bite Back, my goal is to help listeners create a pleasurable relationship with food, their body, and themselves, which in my opinion is the fundamental secret to good health. Listen to Bite Back wherever you get your podcasts.

As we get closer to Kingston, the strangeness of this road trip is becoming increasingly apparent. So, you know, I think like that decision that you and your siblings made seems like a one that a lot of people would understand and relate to. But we're going to see her tomorrow. So what changed for you? Why are you doing this?

I think that I have reached the level in life of forgiveness and the ability to maintain a level of relationship that's distantly comfortable, more like you would have with a distant relative than a mother-daughter relationship. What do you get out of it though, do you think? What is the positive thing that you get out of this relationship given all the trauma and turmoil that it's caused you? I think this is just one of the many, many, many issues that I've had over the years and it's a huge sense of accomplishment that I've been able to work through every single mommy issue, every single attachment issue.

After two plus hours of driving, we've made it to Kingston. Robin drops me off at my hotel and we finalize plans for the next day. So noon, Swiss chalet. Yes, absolutely. I'll be there. All right, great. Thank you.

I'm finding myself anxious about meeting Robin's mother. I can't imagine what the buildup is like for her. Robin's oldest sister Heather is the first to arrive for lunch. How are you doing? I'm fragile. I'm overtired. And then Robin and their mother Shirley Young arrive. Hi, how are you? Fine. Hi, how are you? I'm fine, you? Yeah, fine, yeah. Eighty-one years old, Shirley sports dark rimmed glasses and her curly white hair is thinning and cropped short.

She moves slowly with the aid of a four-pronged walking stick. We head inside and order lunch. I'm going to share the sweet potato fries. Sitting in the bustling restaurant, Robin and Heather appear at ease with their elderly mother. The burden of their past traumas tucked away neatly out of sight. While we wait for our food, the conversation turns to knitting. Heather's taking a certification course to become a master hand knitter. She's brought one of her projects, a Shetland hat. So this is version six and I still have some work to do before I perfect it. What's the matter with it?

What's the matter with it? Yeah. Well there's about 8 things that matter with it. We like just keep the scope of when we're getting together quite small and contained and in quite a controlled environment and you know we make sure it's as comfortable as it can be and as beneficial as it can be. Shirley says her focus for their visits is simple. Oh god, just to see the kids. I'm getting older and they're getting older and

I just have to see them more often. You don't see all your kids? No, these two are the only ones that I see. Do you understand why it's so hard for the kids to maintain this relationship? With me? Yeah, all my mistakes. I think it's amazing you have any kind of relationship with your kids at all. Like it's pretty remarkable

that they have invited you back into their lives. I know that. Shirley, why are you still in a relationship? I mean, I don't know your husband, but I know the damage that he's causing. Financial. I could never make it myself. That's the only reason. It's been your whole life though.

Has there never been a point in your life where you felt like you could laugh to yourself? Knowing the impact that it's had on your relationships. You have two daughters here who maintain a relationship, you have other kids that don't. That's the only excuse I got. I didn't know where to go. I was through one mess before with the kids father. We were in a door with five kids? I couldn't do it again. I know it sounds crazy to you guys, but that's the only way I can think at the time. Shirley says she didn't know what her husband was doing to Robin, Heather and her other

daughters even though she was present during the interview Robin gave to police about her stepfather's sexual abuse when she was 13. I don't know why I didn't catch on to her. I don't know why. I never figured that out. I don't think you were able to hear us when we did tell you. Yeah, I can't see that. I heard you.

It's a painful sticking point to this day. Shirley claiming ignorance, Heather and Robin seeing it as willful ignorance or worse. Robin believes it didn't just endanger her and her sisters. You babysat children after that. believes it didn't just endanger her and her sisters. You babysat children after that. I just couldn't fathom your thought process for babysitting anyone and the potential for more damage to be caused. And just so we're clear, this is babysitting when your husband is home and around? Yeah.

What were you thinking in that those circumstances that you could protect the kids from your husband? Yeah. Your husband wouldn't do it or? No, I'd be more aware of what can happen and watch things better. What were you thinking in that those circumstances that you could protect the kids from your husband? Yeah. Your husband wouldn't do it or? No. I'd be more aware of what can happen and watch things better. But isn't that a reason not to babysit kids? Well, I was trying to do a favor to somebody.

Shirley says she's a sexual abuse survivor as well. When she was three, she says she was sexually assaulted by a family friend, a nine-year-old boy, and then by a relative from the time she was nine until 16 or 17. And then there was Robin and Heather's father, Charlie Morrison. And how old were you when you got into a relationship with him? Thirteen. And he was 25 years her senior. Meaning he was in his late thirties, and she was barely a teenager. He was basically pedophile. That's what he was. So how were you exposed to dad at that age? He hadn't had the

paper for a babysitter for his kids and mother answered the ad. Shirley's mother took a job nannying for Charlie's first family. They both moved into his house. And one thing led to another. We moved down there when I was 13. Charlie was messing around with me. Sexual abuse that eventually led to her getting pregnant. She had five children with him. If you yourself experienced abuse as a child,

how do you end up in a relationship with someone who is going to do the same thing to your own kids? Like, how does that happen? But that's the nature of generational trauma. You know, mom isn't the only woman who has gone from a traumatized childhood to traumatized adult relationship after traumatized adult relationship. And so many never break that cycle.

Shirley still lives with Robin's stepfather, who's in his late 80s. What is your life like, Shirley? Mine? Yeah? Pretty good. What is it that makes your life good? Well, I don't owe nothing. All I got to pay is my rent and my phone. I can do my crafts all I want. I feel very lucky.

What is your life like with your husband? Good days and bad days, if you keep your mouth shut. It's hard, awful hard to sometimes keep from saying something you shouldn't say, I guess. Other than that, it's okay. I just ignore that part of it. But I have more goods than bads. I know the kids don't understand that part.

I know, expect them to. But my kids are not gonna take care of me. My guys aren't gonna take care of me. I gotta take care of myself. Hi John, welcome. Thank you, thank you. Weeks later, I meet up with Robin again in a different setting. Yeah, maybe, can you just tell us where we are right now? We're in Kitchener, really.

Robin has worked hard to build something positive out of her traumas. She's Executive Director of Child Witness, an advocacy and support agency in Kitchener, Ontario, where she helps provide services that weren't available to her and her sisters. The world has changed for victims and witnesses with this generation of victim support, and this is one of the tools that we have in our tool belt where we welcome children and youth and their caregivers as they navigate this treacherous journey. Child witness helps kids and their caregivers

navigate the criminal justice system. We're one block from the courthouse. And what we have here is a safe haven for children and youth to be able to navigate the judicial process and we have lots of really great resources. Like helping kids and their caregivers understand how the justice system works and what their rights are. If asked, child witness caseworkers will accompany them to all their meetings, explaining who they'll be seeing and why and then provide a

comfortable space to relax and recuperate in afterward. There's a lot of wait time in this process and this is the room that's hopefully that comfy cozy welcoming place for them as they're just recouping. The agency even has a remote testimony room, complete with a CCTV link to the courthouse, so children can testify here rather than in court. But Robin says the real highlight is Monet. I'd like to introduce you to Caitlin, who is Monet's primary handler and Monet's favourite human. Monet is Child Witness's therapy dog, a golden retriever slash lab mix who thumps her tail happily as Robin sings her praises. And so Monet is the star of the show.

So children, if they have an affinity for a furry friend, they have the opportunity to have Monet join them for their more tender parts of their journey, whether it's their testimony day, the day they do their victim impact support. Later that evening I meet up with Robin and her daughter Sarah to go for dinner. Take a right on Hakespeak East. Your mom will show me some of your artwork. I haven't been drawing much but I have been juggling a lot, practicing my juggling skills. Sarah is studying renewable energy techniques at a college here in Kitchener. Her brother

Colin attends university in nearby Waterloo. The most astounding thing about Sarah and Colin is both of them master things. And sometimes it's something incredibly obscure, like juggling. They work on things in a self-driven sort of way that's absolutely magical. Robyn says she waited for quite a while before becoming a parent. She wanted to make sure she was ready. I always knew I wanted to have children. It was a matter of when. I needed to feel comfortable that I could do it and had the strength to do a really good job and be unconditionally loving and supporting.

My parents have both always been very supportive and very protective and they're always encouraging us to do what we want in life and they're always telling us that we should have standards for how people should treat us. Robyn didn't hide the traumas of her childhood or how she overcame them. She talks about psychology a lot and about her process of healing a lot. Obviously she would never tell me the details of any particular incidents, but broadly I kind of have a picture of what her home life was like growing up.

I think we should get Kearney this. I'm going to recommend you then an option that is not... For Robin Heald, it's why she endured for moments like this with her own children. Well, I think that I've made it my absolute mission in life to make lemonade, make lemonade out of it for me personally, in victim services and in the life of my family and every future generation of my family to ensure that the cycle of trauma ends.

It absolutely ends with me. The documentary was produced by John Chipman from the CBC's audio documentary unit with help from Julia Poggle and Joan Weber. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.