The Current - Should high school students get a grade for attendance?

Episode Date: April 22, 2026

With absenteeism rates on the rise, Ontario is trying to get kids back to class -- but making it count toward their final grade in high school. But which students will this help? And who will be left behind?

What's the last book you read that you absolutely loved? If you're anything like me, you could probably talk about it for hours. You might be wondering what went into the story or why the author made the choices they did. And on my podcast bookends, I can help you find those answers. Every week, I sit down with authors to get the inside scoop behind your favorite books, like how Louise Penny got through five years of writer's block, or how R.F. Kwong feels about Taylor Swift. Check out bookends with Mateo Roach, wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Too many teens are missing school, and so the Ontario government has decided to do something about it. Last week, that province announced plans to make attendance and participation worth 10% of the final grade for students in grade 11 and 12, even more in grades 9 and 10, where it's worth 15%. Some high school students in Toronto say the most of the most of the middle. move to tie attendance to grades will help, but for others, the jury is out.

If people have good grades, I feel like it doesn't really matter what their attendance is, as long as they're keeping up the good marks. I don't think I should be losing my grades for skipping school. It should definitely, like, just only regard the assignments. Assignments matter the most. Those are the actual things that you work on. Sometimes, you know, I just need to go home, sometimes I don't feel like it's always feel tired, you know?

I feel like 10 or 15% is a lot of your final mark, especially for people who actually do care about school and like care about where they're going in the future. I feel like they would for sure prioritize attending school more. No, I think it's helpful to like students for like the ones who aren't coming in class. But like I also think it's not going to change that much because the ones who aren't coming already don't care about their grades. 15% is quite a lot. I'm the oldest child. So I skip school a lot. It's not because I want to, but it's because I have to. So I have a sick uncle at home. I got to take care of him if my mom is going to drop my other sibling. It's a school. It's a lot. It's a school. It's like a kind of like a threat to their grade. Maybe they'll start to come to class,

but I don't know if it'll work. I feel like it's a free 10%. It's just like, I come to class anyway, so now 10% of my grade is literally free. So like I don't have to worry as much. The province says students will not be penalized for excused absences like sickness and religious holidays, but chronic absenteeism is an issue and it's an issue right across this country. In Ontario, some 60% of students in secondary schools are chronically absent, meaning they miss 10%. or about 20 days of school every year. That is a 20% increase since pre-pandemic levels. In a moment, we'll speak with a researcher

and what we know about why kids are missing school. But first, Dante Luciani is a high school teacher in Hamilton, Ontario. Dante, good morning. Good morning, Matt. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being here. How often do you see students missing your classes? Every single day.

Every single day. Every single day. Every single day I have students absent. Matt, one thing I like to do in my class, and I did this in elementary, doing high school, anytime we have a full house, everybody present, little cheer, little celebration, hey, we got a full house today. I have not done that this year. I can't remember the last time I've done it in high school where I've had every student present in my class.

Paint me a picture of what that looks like. You have a college-level marketing class. Is this right? I have a college-level marketing class. I have a credit recovery class. and I have a introduction to anthropology, psychology, and sociology class. And we're all creatures of habit, right? I know exactly when certain students are going to show up.

I know who's showing up two minutes late. I know who's going to be there on time when I get to the classroom. I know who's going to be 10 minutes late, 20 minutes late. And I, for the most part, know who's going to be absent as well, unfortunately. How many students show up on time? I would say less than a third of the class. And in that class of 26 students that you might have, how many would be absent every day? I would say definitely a handful.

I would say anywhere from four to six around there, sometimes less, sometimes more. But yeah, there's always, I would say, a handful. And what are the reasons that the students give you for not being in class? Yeah, it's multifaceted. I've heard a number of different things. I've heard some serious things such as, you know, from a new Canadian family. A student will say, I have to translate for my mother for her appointments, for her job interviews, for anything else that comes up. And I have to be there for her completely understand that. I've heard, you know, just didn't feel like it. I don't know. I don't know why I didn't show up. I've heard, you know, my mom signed me out or my dad signed me out. And, you know, for her. frivolous reasons. I've heard my appointment. I heard I just slept in. I wasn't feeling good. I just went home. You know, I've heard a hundred different reasons. And some are very valid and some are very frivolous. What are the frivolous reasons that a parent would sign their child out of school? Do you want to hear honest to God things I've heard? Yeah. I've heard because it's Friday,

because it's Monday, because it's nice out, because it's raining out, because we have a mass, because I have basketball practice after school because I had basketball practice this morning or a practice. Because it's my friend's birthday because I wanted to go to Starbucks. I've heard everything. You know what I mean? I want to watch basketball. You hear a whole host of excuses. And that's the one that kind of irks me the most because it's being enabled. I understand that we have students who have valid reasons to be at home supporting a family member. or to be missing. I have, you know, I have students, I have empathy for students who are going through some

serious struggles and for whatever reason or having a hard time, you know, getting to school. And I think that needs to be addressed. And those students often fall by the wayside because they're not in our building. It's hard for them for us to really help them if they're not in our building. But then the ones that are just being enabled by home, that one irks me a bit. How do you understand that? Is your sense that attendance, whether it's in the student's mind or, to your point,

I'll use your word, enabled by parents. Is attendance seen as optional in some ways now? So that's the most frustrating thing as a teacher is like, at what point did attendance become optional, you know? And like what I heard from some of the students who were speaking in the intro there, it almost sounds like that university approach, you know, it's like, I'll drop into my lecture if I feel like it. Otherwise, I'll just, you know, go home and study for the midterm in a couple of weeks.

Like, it's kind of that laissez-faire approach. And we're seeing that in high school. Like some kids will be like, yeah, we'll see if I'll see if I can come tomorrow. I'm like, no, this is non-negotiable. Like, you need to be in class. I don't know where we got away from attendance being mandatory, but it seems far too optional right now. And I don't think that's going to help us.

Like, think if only 40% of our students are attending regular, like imagine 40% of our workforce only attended regularly. Like, think of the impacts that would have in our economy. And this is just the habit that is very concerning because I think, to be honest, showing up is a very undervalued skill. I often tell my students, I'm like, yeah, you know what? Today you're showing up for the third period marketing. But in 10 years, you might be showing up for a loved one.

You might be showing up for a friend who needs you. You might be showing up for a tough day at work, but you still need to show up because you've got to support your family. Like, these are habits we really, really need to emphasize. And I don't think there's many more important than showing up. How are those absences dealt with at your school right now? I'm of the age to remember when there used to be the threat of the truant officer that would come and wrap on your door if you were.

in school. Yeah, absolutely. But we're drowning in it, right? So if let's say my class has five absences, so times that by every period and every class throughout the day, right? So we're talking about well over, I mean, I don't know what to do the math, but I would say hundreds of absente. This class is in a day.

We can't possibly keep up with that. So what do you do? You know, we have a, I, I, I, you know, you reach out to the student, you reach out to home, you reach out to admin, we try to do everything we can, but it just often, you know, it goes, yeah, our efforts kind of just fail sometimes. Is there somebody on staff whose job it is to deal with absences? Yeah, I mean, like admin does their part, but again, they're swamped. We have a child youth worker who, I think it's on her portfolio, and she's a wonderful, you know,

person and it really helps her school, but she's swamped already, right? So, like, her job is already so busy to then track down, you know, the 100 students in a day that missed the class. Like, you can't possibly do that. Like, I was once a part of a staff where I was responsible for absences for one grade. And at this school, it was like six kids I had to find a day. And that was very hard to do. Like just finding six, especially when they're not in your building, right? Like, or, you know, contact hard to get a hold of them at home.

It's very, very difficult. Yeah. So what do you, what do you make? The province's decision to make attendance part of a student's final grade? I'm all for anything, trying anything at this point that is going to try to help. I think it could help a bit. Like, I posed it to my class, and to be honest, my students aligned with kind of how I felt. Some of them said it's free marks.

Great. I think they should get that. I have no problem with a kid who shows up every day. I have no problem with them getting that those free 10%. There was a group of students that said, yeah, this. could, you know, this could motivate me on a day where I might feel like, ah, I feel like taken off today after period four. I don't, I don't really feel like stick around period five on a Friday. Yeah, maybe that incentivized them to stay. I think that's great. But the group that we're

really missing out on, like a student with 9% is not going to be motivated to show up because there's now an incentive for them, you know, 10% of their mark will go towards attendance. That student with 9% we're going to need, we're going to need a better solution. for them. And my hypothesis is I think we'll see more of those frivolous parental excuses. That's my concern. And my students felt the same way. They see it too. Jamie Mitchell is a high school math teacher near Toronto. Have a listen to what Jamie Mitchell says about this. Students get more out of school when they're there and present for the learning. And chronic absenteeism certainly gets in the way of student's success. Is it getting in the way enough that we need to dock marks for that? I don't think so.

there is natural consequences when students are away. They are naturally going to do worse to the point that it's not worth it to penalize them twice. We're missing the cause of their absences and we're trying to fix it with the wrong application of power. And if students just see attendance as a way to get a higher grade, I really worry about the lessons they're going to be learning in that classroom. Dante, I have to let you go, but what do you make of that? That students are inherently, I guess, penalized because if they're not attending class,

they're not learning the material. Yeah, to be honest, I agree with Jamie. I think that he captured that very well. I think it's true. But at the same time, like, we need to try something. So I'm game for anything. But he's absolutely right, you know, like it's going to, I think it's going to widen the gap more.

But we got to, like, you sound frustrated. At this point, I'm game for, oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely frustrated. Because these are conversations I have with kids every day. I'm like, hey, you got to be in class. And even just like being class, one thing, punctuality is another thing that is very difficult. And it's like, you know, at our school, like our teachers can work miracles, but you got to be in the classroom.

You know what I mean? Like if you can't, we can't help you if you're not in the classroom. Like it's hard to, you know, to track you down otherwise, right? We can help you, but you got to be in the class. We're out of time, but you're on your way to class shortly. So do you expect a full class? Yeah. Oh, God, every day. I hope so. But I, yeah, I don't think so. I wish you the best of luck. Dante, thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Matt. I appreciate it. Dante Luciani is a high school teacher in Hamilton, Ontario. What's the last book you read that you absolutely loved? If you're anything like me, you could probably talk about it for hours. You might be wondering what went into the story or why the author made the choices they did. And on my podcast bookends, I can help you find those answers. Every week, I sit down with authors to get the inside scoop behind your favorite books. Like how Louise Penny got through five years of writer's block, or how RF Kwong feels about Taylor Swift.

Check out bookends with Mateo Roach wherever you get your podcasts. Jess Whitley is an education professor at the University of Ottawa, University Research Chair in Inclusion, Mental Health and School Attendance. Jess, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. What do you make of what you just heard from Dante? He's frustrated and says attendance in some ways has become optional in his school. He's so frustrated, and it really echoes. what we hear from so many educators.

You can hear in his voice. He's there for the kids. He's there for their learning. He wants them to do well, like all the things that we, you know, want in our teachers. And just, you know, the fact that the kids aren't there is getting in the way of him being able to do that.

So, yeah, that's a, that's a sentiment we hear a lot. What do we know about why kids aren't in school? I think what we know is that it is multifaceted in the ways that we've heard so far this morning. So definitely we have kids who have so many barriers to getting to school in our research with the Canadian school attendance partnership. We work with newcomer families, kids with disabilities, kids who face so many barriers to getting to school. So that's a big part of it that we don't want to be lost in this conversation. There's things pulling kids away from school. Honestly, transportation seems like a small practical thing.

It gets in the way every day of kids getting to school. They're working to support their families. Anxiety is so prevalent and is such a barrier right now. And there's some kids who just don't feel that school is a fit for them. Lots of kids who identify as LGBTQ, not always feeling like a school is a safe supportive place and they're being pushed out a bit. So it really is a complex issue. And then there are the kids that Dante is trying to teach.

You just don't show up who feel like they don't want to go, that it's Friday, that it's sunny, that it's Monday, that it's, you know, there's a basketball game. night or a basketball game that morning or Starbucks has, you know, whatever you want to get from Starbucks? What about them? I mean, that was an incredible list. And I'm sure he could have gone on with more of the reasons we hear. And I mean, I teach university students. So I'm not unfamiliar with some of this phenomenon, right? And so I can see that, you know, even in our efforts to engage and work the magic that he described within the school, there's still going to be kids who just don't really see the value. And I think, you know, part of this national natural consequence that Jamie talked about, where we expect that students will struggle

academically if they're not in school, when we don't see that happening, it kind of removes some of the incentive there, right? So you've talked on the show before. We've heard a lot about how really thinking about our assessment practices and wondering really if it is possible for kids to do really well without being in school. You know, that's a question that I think we need to talk more about in our school system. And so if you tie the students' grades to their attendance and participation in the classroom, how effective is that at getting those kids to go to class? We just have research that shows that that is not likely to be effective. The teens spoke to this as well.

So it's a small group of students. They have to be academically motivated, right? That grade really needs to matter and it needs to be within reach. If it's too far out of reach, Dante talked about the kid with 9%. That's too distant, right? That's too huge of a shift. kids who are really academically motivated or whose families are super academically motivated are really going to make sure they get there and don't have a bunch of barriers getting in the way.

There might be that group of kids for whom this is, you know, it makes a difference. There's other provinces who have similar kinds of approaches already in place. And so maybe for that small group of kids, you know, this will actually make a small difference. But honestly, for the majority, I don't think it's going to have an impact. And we have research that shows, you know, throughout the United States that it's unlike to really stick. Paul Calandra is the Ontario Minister of Education who has put this issue forward. Have a listen to Paul Callander talking about this new rule. And a lot of teachers what they said to me, look, 100% of the mark is based on coursework.

So students can pop in and out as they like and their mark would and was not impacted at all. And that causes real difficult classroom management issues. And then at the same time, some kids who are working really, really, really hard, there was no way to acknowledge their hard work as part of the mark. So it's a classroom management issue. It's an idea that came exclusively from my interactions with teachers. He says it came from his interactions with teachers. If teachers are asking for something like this,

is this not the only tool, but a tool? Is this one of the tools that could be helpful? I mean, as I said in other provinces, I think they've looked at. So, for example, in Nova Scotia, right, you have to attend at least 80% of your classes in order to, you know, otherwise the credit might be in jeopardy, right? There's a lot of discretion on the part of teachers, the discretion on the part of the principal who makes that decision ultimately.

So we do see efforts in other provinces to try to put something there. It's not 10 or 15% of your mark, but, you know, there is a possibility that you're not going to get the credit if you're not showing up enough of the time. We also see all kinds of teachers putting things in place in class so that students really do need to be there in order to complete things. So, yeah, so there may be a group of students for whom this is, effective. It's just not going to work for all of those kids. It's not bringing supports and services

into schools in the ways that we actually know need to be there to support all of these kids. We just have a couple of minutes left. Let me ask you two things. One is what could be done to encourage more kids to come to class? It's all the things. And honestly, I love that Ontario is paying attention to this, but we have years and years and years of research internationally that talks about the ways to get kids back to school and to get kids to stay in. school. It starts in kindergarten. So here we're having this discussion about grade 9 through 12. For a lot of these kids, these habits are ingrained or the barriers have existed for many years, right? So we need to start in kindergarten. There's all kinds of research around different kinds of messaging campaigns and making

sure that parents have, you know, even on a weekly basis, getting messages about the number of days their kids missed. They honestly have been, you know, some of them haven't even been able to keep track of what that big picture looks like. We have attendance counselors. in Ontario. And many provinces do not. They're jealous of our attendance counselors that we have. Maybe we could double them, right? We just heard about the scope of this issue from Dante and the sheer numbers. We need those grad coaches. We need those success workers. We need those attendance counselors in our schools to try to re-engage kids in those ways that classroom educators, you know, they're already really full up with trying to actually teach. And so more of those kinds of people

can be really key. And engaging families in all the ways, right? Really. thinking about the boundaries of that school door, that locked school door, what can we be doing to really build those relationships with communities, with families is really key as well. I have to let you go, but do you worry about the cost of this? There's research out of the UK that suggests that students who miss just 10 days of school were 25% less likely to meet standards in reading, writing, and math, for example. Do you worry about the consequences of this? If we broadly don't get this right? A hundred percent. I think, you know, we talk so much about interventions in our schools,

but when I walk through a school and I think about how many kids are actually just not here today, I think people do not at all understand who huge of an issue this is and how much it is going to impact us in the coming years. Jess, really good to talk to you about this. Thank you very much. Yeah, thanks, Matt. Jess Whitley is an education professor at the University of Ottawa and University Research Chair in Inclusion, Mental Health and School Attendance. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.