The Current - Sitting down with a Jan. 6 protester

Episode Date: October 15, 2024

The CBC’s Katie Nicholson was reporting live from the Jan. 6 U.S. Capitol riot when she was swarmed by Trump supporters and forced off air. In her new documentary she tracks down one of the people who harassed her — a woman who still firmly believes the 2020 U.S. election was stolen, and is married to a lifelong Democrat who does not.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Americans are three weeks away from Election Day. It was nearly four years ago that a violent mob overtook the Capitol after the last election. At one point on January the 6th, a CBC News crew got swept up in that story when Trump supporters swarmed them, forcing the network to cut away from the CBC's Katie Nicholson. Well now, Katie decided to try to track down one of the Trump supporters who harassed her that day. Here is Katie's documentary.

that day. Here is Katie's documentary. January 6, 2021. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. I was on the ground near the Ellipse and that South Lawn area of the White House. We're going to walk down. As then President Donald Trump urged his supporters to march to the Capitol. We're going to walk down to the Capitol. And they did. Tear it down! Tear it down! We've all seen images of that day, people scaling the Capitol, pushing their way inside. USA! USA!

The calls to hang the sitting Vice President Mike Pence. Ray Mike Pence! Ray Mike Pence! And the assaults on police. and the assaults on police. I want to bring in the CBC's Katie Nicholson. She is in Washington near the Canadian embassy. At 3.52 p.m., I was just a few blocks from the Capitol. I was live on CBC News Network.

We've been seeing an awful lot of people walking away from the Capitol building. And I was aware of a group of Trump supporters who were shouting and shaking their fists and their flags in the air. This was basically... That's me on the fake news. We had a security guard with us and he was trying to de-escalate. I heard him tell them that we were a Canadian crew.

It didn't help. I think I'll let these guys finish. Yeah, you know what? I'm going to let... I kept going. We'd been heckled all day. It was nothing new. I think I'll let these guys finish. I kept going. We'd been heckled all day. It was nothing new. If I might finish. Go ahead. The rhetoric around the

But then they closed in. And whether or not I felt a flag slap across my face as a protester walked in front of me. You know what? Cut it. We can't do that. The network cut away. We picked up our gear and tried to move away as they encircled and taunted us. A woman in a white winter jacket accused me of spewing BS

and said that our crew should run. This is a spewing of bullshit! Treason! Go, run! After a few blocks, they lost interest. Walk of shame! Walk of shame! And within minutes, we were set up somewhere else. So, Katie, I know it's been a very long day for you.

Walk us through what the latest is. Well, in fact, Adrienne, I have moved because it was a little too raucous down in front of the Canadian... Ever since, I've been thinking about the people who surrounded us that day. I was curious who they were, what brought them there, whether their thinking had shifted, especially now, heading into another highly volatile election. So I tracked down the woman in the white coat who said I was spewing BS and who told our crew that we ought to run.

Her name is Tracy Danka. Pull in here. She lives in Calabash, North Carolina. Can this be it? And she invited me to her house. This is definitely the place. Danka's front yard is festooned with Trump flags. It's good to see you.

It's a lot more chill than January 6th, isn't it? Yeah. There's also, surprisingly, a giant Harris Walls banner tied between two trees. Well, let me tell you, the only reason why there's a Harris is because I ordered that for my husband. Did you? Mm-hmm. But I made sure it was big.

Yeah, that's right. She's married to a Democrat. We'll get to that a little later. Spinach and tomatoes from my garden. Smell that fresh spinach? Tracy is making spinach ravioli for seniors. She tries to do this once a week. Well, I guess it started years ago with our children,

and we just felt it was important to give back to the community. Tracy was raised in Pennsylvania. Her parents were Democrats. She even voted for Obama. But something changed when Donald Trump came down that golden escalator in 2015. And we are going to make our country great again. I remember thinking that as sad as it is, our country is a business. And we needed a businessman running our country rather than a politician, because these politicians would say and do whatever they needed to talk to the person in front of them.

Where Donald Trump, you're fired, you're fired. I mean, come on now. Who does that? You know, do I agree with everything Donald Trump says? No. What don't I agree with everything Donald Trump says? No. What don't you agree with? I don't agree that the wealthy should receive tax breaks. I don't agree with that.

But she does agree with Donald Trump's baseless claims the 2020 election was stolen even after dozens of court cases found no evidence. Even after Trump's own election officials said it was the most secure election in U.S. history. Do you believe that from a Trump appointee? No. I don't believe. You still have doubt?

Yeah, I still have doubt. A big part of that doubt comes down to her distrust of news sources, which brings us back to that moment on January 6th. Around, I mean, when we encountered each other at the Capitol, it was about four o'clock, so it's just before Trump told everybody to leave. And I remember because I was kind of like swarmed by Trump supporters, and everybody was quite hostile towards the journalists, right? I wasn't. You were my thigh yeah you you told me I was spewing BS oh yeah I think I yeah but I mean I why did you do that like why did you think that I was I'm curious about your relationship with media and trust of

journalists turn on the TV are you kidding kidding me? You know, I mean, look at the news. It's always, and Trump has done this, and Trump has done that, and the Republicans have done this, and the Republicans. But we report on everything that happens, right? Some do, but not all. This is an act of trust, inviting a journalist into your home, right? So on that day, it was clear you didn't trust. I didn't trust the journalist that day. Has anything changed for you? Because here I am sitting with you. I guess it's who the journalist is.

I guess it's what their goal is. And what they've said in the past and how they've portrayed people. So do I agree with all of them? Nope. Do I trust of them? Nope. Do I trust them all? Nope. Tracy cringes when I offer to show her what our cameras captured on January 6th.

She isn't sure she wants to see it. It was just rude and uncalled for. As we watch the video, she shifts her weight uncomfortably and winces. Yeah, you're screwing this bullshit, but you know. Run! Run! You've got to shoot yourself! Yeah, nobody should attack anyone for doing their job,

for, you know, speaking their mind, for reporting the news. So, yeah, I would say I was wrong. Tracy, that means a lot to me. 100%. Thank you. You know, because no one should ever, you know, I tell people all the time, you know, oh, I'm so sorry, you should never apologize for doing your job. No matter what my opinion is, if it's your job and it's something you believe in, you should never apologize for doing it.

But as a person who is a proud Republican and a Christian, how dare I? In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. Tracy may not trust all journalists,

but she trusts me enough to show me a bit of her life. As we hit the road to deliver her meals, Tracy tells me more about why she supports Donald Trump. I'm worried about war. I'm worried about us being involved in any wars. All this aid, where did we become the parents of the world? Let me tell you something. I have tenants. we own rentals.

And when my tenant's like, I lost my job, well, you know, I think that's great, but I'm not your mommy, so I'm not putting a roof over your head. Our first stop is Joe Nautas' house. He's a Vietnam vet and a staunch Trump supporter. Okay, Joe, I brought you seafood, pasta. Oh my goodness. And I brought you the cheese and spinach raviolis. What are you hungry for? Which one do you want? Like Tracy, he still refuses

to accept the results of the 2020 election. And he's worried what that means for this election. If this election goes bad, there's going to be a civil war. Most definitely. I have my doubts whether they're going to let President Trump into the White House. If he does get elected, I foresee martial law. I don't even want to think about that. Well, hello! Our next stop, an elderly couple from Tracy's church. How are you? You look fabulous.

Oh, you look always good. Yes, that's a French-Canadian accent. Francine Lazard-Ailing is now an American citizen and a huge Trump supporter. In my opinion, it was a stolen election. Are you worried about the integrity of this election? I am still. Yes, I am. And I hope that they will have enough people standing up and watching on both sides.

While there are many in Tracy's world who share her baseless but unshakable belief that the 2020 election was stolen, her husband Ed, a lifelong Democrat and retired steelworker, isn't one of them. So the 60 lawsuits that they filed across the country were all proved there was no interference. And a lot of them were Republican officials that were involved. They all agreed there was no interference. That doesn't count.

I mean, if you can't trust the Republicans, Republican officials that were involved, they all agreed there was no interference. That doesn't count. I mean, if you can't trust the Republicans, can't trust them? Republicans can't trust them. Republicans can't trust them, apparently, because you don't trust them. You don't trust that they did what was right. No, I don't. Well, there you go. We're out in the Danka's backyard. Tracy and Ed are seated next to each other. The fault lines of America's political divide run deep and right

through their 26-year marriage. Oh my gosh. What happened on January 6th? We seem to have two very different versions, but that was an actual live broadcast. And I know what I saw. I saw people breaking into the Capitol building, attacking officers. Which was 100% wrong. Trying to get into the Senate chamber and get to the congressmen and senators where they had to flee basically for their lives. They were scared, and I don't blame them because those people were vicious. Yeah, they were. And the way they were attacking, it was pretty disturbing. Even today, four years later, it's still, I'll never forget it.

I mean, that's something you don't forget. He was at home, but I was physically there. And for me, it was a show of support, patriotism, love. You know, when we went from where he was speaking over to the Capitol you know we were told you know march in peace and and and that's what it was. I didn't know she was that close to what was going on. Basically she told me they took buses over there from Butler, PA and she told me whenever Trump was done speaking that they went back to the buses.

I just recently found out. He's mistaken. Over the last day or so that she walked down to the Capitol building. Yeah, I did. Yes, but that's not what you told me originally, honey. We walked over towards the Capitol. I didn't go into the Capitol. I didn't say you did.

Okay. What you told me was after Trump was done speaking, we went back to the Capitol. I didn't go into the Capitol. I didn't say you did. Okay. What you told me was after Trump was done speaking, we went back to the buses. No. Because... You're mistaken. Okay. I'm telling you the way I remember it. Okay. January 6th is a sore spot.

But even as they debate, they at times hold hands. My issue is the ones that actually broke inside the building with the intent of stopping the procedure and then doing all that damage and injuring or killing guards and other people that were there. I mean, that's, if not insurrection, I don't know what is. I'm sorry, you lost, accept it. That's just the way politics politics work sometimes you win and sometimes you lose and sometimes you have a whole bunch of people that are nine feet under that crawled up out of the grave and went and voted oh wait that was only in that election no we're talking about two different I know so that just proves the election was stolen. Are you worried about this country? Yes, I am. Yeah, of course we are.

Whichever way it goes, there's going to be trouble. Either way, whether he wins or loses, and it might be worse if he wins. That's the scary part. I think it'll be worse if he doesn't win. That chart's a couple of months old. This election cycle has already been rocked by violence. Take a look at what happened. On July 13th in Butler, Pennsylvania, a lone wolf, a registered Republican,

fired off shots at Donald Trump before police shot and killed him. Tracy Baker, a childhood friend of Tracy Danka's, was there. We were four rows from the stage to his left. And all of a sudden, I hear this pop, pop. And I'm going, fireworks, firecrackers? It must be outside the venue. fireworks, firecrackers. It must be outside the venue. And I'm watching him. We're looking at a graph showing all the illegal immigration and what have you. And then down he goes. I was like, oh, and then we all go down. There were chairs and people on top of people. And I'll tell you, when I hit the ground and I heard he's hit, my heart sunk. I thought, this is the end of our country as we know it. It was heart-wrenching.

And when I saw him get back up, it was just unbelievable. USA! USA! And so when I saw him get back up, it was just unbelievable. U.S.A.! U.S.A.! That must have been terrifying, everybody falling down. It was absolutely terrifying. I had no idea. I'm thinking, how can I get, what am I going to do? There was somebody on top of me, so I felt relatively safe. But I was afraid to get up.

I didn't know, if I get up, am I going to get picked off? What's going to happen here? So I waited to see the people in front of me get up. So after they got up, I said, OK, we must be OK. The two Tracys go to Trump rallies together. She also marched to the Capitol on January 6th and worries about what's to come this year. The reason for all of these rallies is just what he said, too big to rig. And that's what it has to be. It has to be that. And I do believe that the 2020 election was stolen.

I do believe that. I'm very fearful of what could happen. You know, I hope that there's enough good people out there that can stop this stuff. It's, I just hope that there are. Hearing his wife and her friends cling to the big lie about the stolen election isn't easy for Ed. What do you need to do with these people for them to get it? To me, it's almost like a cult. What do you need to do with these people for them to get it? To me, it's almost like a cult. You know, when you have a cult, no matter what that cult leader says,

the members go along with it. They're mesmerized. He's somebody that, for whatever reason, a lot of these people cling to or want to be like. I don't know why. To me, it doesn't make any sense, but I'm me. I don't go along that easily. But other people are more susceptible, I think. I think that's why so many people are behind them. They're miles apart on their views on Donald Trump and election integrity,

but Tracy and Ed say their marriage is solid. The last thing on earth we would ever allow is for people that we do not know personally to affect our marriage. We were married in a church under the eyes of God. And that's where our marriage is focused. Yeah, I agree with that. We don't let it get too personal, let's put it that way. Family comes first, and then politics. All we can do is vote for who we think needs to be in that job

and hope for the best. And may the better man or woman win. It's all fun and games. Before we leave, Tracy throws a dinner party. Tracy's setting the table. She's slicing the prime rib and mashing potatoes. Edward sits here at the head of the table. You're welcome to sit anywhere you like.

Okay, very good. Amanda Howard is one of Tracy's guests. She's a small business owner and Trump supporter. But even she is ready to be talking about something, anything else. I'm ready for the new normal. Whatever the new normal is, I'm ready. I'm ready for people to go about their lives, things to be back to normal. I'm ready for a place. Amanda, would you grace us with grace? Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day. We thank you for friends and family, and we pray that you bless this food to the nourishments of our body and our body to

thy service. Amen. Amen. Thank you. So we have a salad. It's an almost Norman Rockwell moment of normal ahead of what could be a chaotic November. And of course, there's fried ribs. It was, after all, political unrest that brought me here to Tracy's world. So I have to ask her, if there's another January 6th, would she go back to the Capitol? You know, my husband will back me 110% in anything I do. But not when there's danger out there, honey. Yeah. Because now you know it's there. You didn't know it before.

Yeah. Four years ago, but now you know what's capable, what they're capable of. I'm going to say no. A documentary was produced by the CBC's Kate and Nicholson in cooperation with the CBC Audio Documentary Unit. Tomorrow, I'm headed to Arizona, a crucial battleground state, and we will bring you the current from there and from Michigan next week. State, and we will bring you the current from there and from Michigan next week.