The Current - The Arab-American protest vote against the Democrats

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Arab-American residents of Dearborn, Mich., have usually voted Democrat. But anger over the war in the Middle East is prompting many voters to turn away from Kamala Harris, and consider a protest vote for Donald Trump. In this crucial swing state, could that anger decide the outcome of this entire election?

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. I'm in Dearborn, about 20 minutes away from Detroit. More than half the people here in this community are Arab American. Many of the signs here are in Arabic. America's half the people here in this community are Arab American. Many of the signs here are in Arabic. America's largest mosque is here. Lebanese bakeries are everywhere and we are told they are the best. We even meet up with a family from Ottawa outside one of those bakeries,

arms full of goodies to take back home. So this is the west end of Dearborn. This is the downtown of West Dearborn where you have a lot of businesses like ford has a lot of offices here and several other companies are based in the west end of dearborn and we're actually just up the road from the ford world headquarters everything in dearborn is ford ford road honeyford estate i'm with rima merway she is director of the national network of arab american communities it's a non-partisan organization working to get out I'm with Rima Marway. She is director of the National Network of Arab American Communities. It's a nonpartisan organization working to get out the vote. How did it end up that this is a community that's where the Arab American community is concentrated in?

So Ford Motor Company started the $5 day. I don't remember the exact year, but there were a few Arab families here. And what ended up happening is a lot of them would bring, because you didn't to speak english and five dollar a day was actually a lot at the time and so they would bring family members and and that's how you started getting the community here i actually have a joke about that my uncle when i was in um lebanon once my uncle was giving me a tour of south lebanon and we drove through this town called vintage bell and it was at night and all the lights were off and i asked him where is everyone? It just seemed like the town was empty. And he's like, well, they're all in Dearborn. We can go this way.

In the past, Dearborn has reliably voted Democrat. But that loyalty is shifting because of the war in the Middle East. A growing number of voters here are refusing to vote for Kamala Harris because of the Biden administration's handling of that war. And in a state where the polls suggest Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are virtually tied, that shifting allegiance could even decide the election. Rima takes us to her favorite Yemeni coffee shop. So what are we, what are you pouring? So this is Zaghani tea and it has spices. You can make it with star anise, cardamom, cloves, cinnamon.

It's really delicious. These are small little cups. We don't need more than this because it's like rocket fuel. It's very strong. So it's slow-boiled tea and boiled for a while. So if you go up there, you can actually see it. It'll be on all day. And this is special to Yemen. Yemen culture.

Let's have some. Oh, that's lovely. Oh my goodness. Just a little bit. It's coffee-ish. It is. Which is why people order it. I'm not a big treat. I mean, we drink in Arab culture everywhere, actually. Lebanon, Palestine. We drink a lot of tea. We bring all our meetings here because it's delicious. And do you find, I mean, because you have this, like the meetings are hopped up. Everybody's kind of wound up and wired up because it's so strong. Yeah, it wakes you up if it's not an exciting topic, but our topics are always exciting.

Excellent. What has the last year been like for you and for your community? It's been a really, really difficult year. I would say, you know, the first question people have asked me is, has this year been more difficult than after 9-11 for example it most certainly has for me as well as for many in the community we have over a year continued to see a genocide unfold and and and really this this almost collective silence over what's happening and watching that has been very difficult for not only community and

the adults but for children right who who are seeing children who look like them be targeted what is this year been like for you in terms of connections to the middle east and family or friends for me as a lebanese person i have now um i have my husband's family has 20 people who have had to leave Lebanon. My family, I have aunts and uncles, some who stayed, who decided to stay, some who have moved to other countries like Qatar and Iraq and so on. So it is, and then to see over and over, have to watch the justifications for the killing has been very difficult.

It's very demoralizing. So we're talking just a couple of weeks out from the U.S. election. What is the impact of this last year being on the political climate here in Dubai? So I can tell you, actually, we have a very large team of organizers that are on the ground that get Arab Americans to show up to vote. We don't endorse candidates. However, people have been talking about what they want to do. And it has been such a range of how people are reacting and who they want to vote for. But the thing that most people are on the same page with is the idea that they're going to vote and they're going to show up to vote because they want their voices heard. This is a really politically engaged community. It has been in the past. We also have never been a one-issue community.

Is that different now? Is it now a one-issue community? Oh, well, yes. Now we are hearing a lot of people saying, if I'm going to be a one-issue voter and that's against genocide, then I'm willing to be that. What does that mean in terms of how people will vote? You have people who are going to vote for Jill Stein because they don't like either candidate. This is the Green Party candidate who has talked about a ceasefire. Yep. And then you have people who say, we're going to vote for Kamala Harris because a vote for Jill Stein would be a vote for Trump. However, these are the more politically active people who want to work within

the party. And then there are people who say, I'm going to vote for Trump to punish the Democratic Party. What do people make of the various pitches? Because, I mean, Michigan is such an important state, and this election is on a knife edge. Trump and Harris have been here making pitches broadly to the state, but also to this community. What do people make of the pitches coming from Kamala Harris, for example? I think, you know, what I've heard a lot of people say is cautious optimism.

A lot of people haven't decided. What I'm hearing is still this waiting of what is Kamala Harris going to do? Is she going to say something? Is she going to actually earn our vote? What do they want? What would earn the vote? A ceasefire. A ceasefire. Her saying... The biggest lie that I've heard is that people are talking about a political situation. This is not a complicated issue. What Arab Americans are looking for right now is not what Palestine will look like. There are obviously, that is the end goal, but what people are talking about at this very moment is they want to see the killing stop. people are talking about at this very moment is they want to see the killing stop. Well, would they want to hear from Donald Trump? What would lead them to think that that would be the right place to mark their ballot? The interesting part is I've not heard people talking about what they particularly want from Donald Trump. And I think that's because

we've been through a Donald Trump presidency and there wasn't very much interaction with this community. And so I don't know that there's something in particular. The ones that we have heard say they're going to vote for Trump are doing so more out of wanting to punish the other party. To punish the Democrats. Yeah. You have a wry smile on your face when you say that. What is to be gained? Help me understand this. What's to be gained from punishing the Democrats by voting for Donald Trump? Well, I'm simply a messenger here. No, no. From your perspective, how do you understand that?

From my perspective, I think it's we have nothing else to lose, right? A lot of people have come to the community and said Trump is going to be worse, right? A lot of people have said that to community members. Trump is going to be worse, right? A lot of people have said that to community members. Probably every household in Dearborn that is either Palestinian or Lebanese has been impacted and has lost people, right? You come to these people and say,

you know, Trump is going to be worse. Exactly worse than what? Than watching your family members be blown to pieces, watching hospitals be targeted, or maybe watching the cities where we come from be blown to ashes, right? What is worse than that? And so that question in itself is, when people say the alternative is going to be worse to the Arab American community, all they hear is worse than what? How does the community, and I ask you this as a member of the community. How do you understand the political power that you have?

I mean, Hillary Clinton lost Michigan by something like 10,000 votes. 12,000, yeah. 12,000 votes in 2016. There are, people have said, upwards of 100,000, maybe more people in this area who marked their ballots as uncommitted before. That's a lot more than 12,000. That could swing in not just this state, but that could swing the election. That's a lot of power. How do people in the community understand the political power that they have, the political currency that they

have? I think they understand exactly that. They understand that there has been in the last few elections, every candidate has won by very small margins and not just presidents, right? Congress as well. A lot of our senators have won by very small margins and not just presidents, right? Congress as well. A lot of our senators have won by very small margins and people understand that. And that's why people want to show up and vote and show and let them hear the voices through that vote. Do you think that the parties understand the power that the people here in this community have? No, I do not. They either do. You finished. Well, let me tell you why I don't't think they have because the alternative is that they know the power that this community have and they're willing to lose the country over it right that's the alternative so no i don't think they

they see the power that this community has however i think the thing that they see that we also see by the way is that we don't win communities of color and marginalized communities and communities that have some power as a voting bloc do not win elections on their own, right? We have, there are several communities that vote in voting blocs, and all of those are important. And all of those can have an impact on elections. And the thing that they're not seeing is this is not just an Arab issue, right? This is there are a lot of communities that are saying, we need a ceasefire, we need to ceasefire. We need to stop seeing this killing. Who are you going to vote for?

I can't tell you that. As an individual, though, I mean, given everything that you've said, not as somebody, just as Rima, the person who's sitting here drinking this delicious tea with us, how are you going to cast your vote? I don't know yet, to be honest with you. I don't know what I'm going to vote for. I know that I'm going to vote. And I know, you know, what I tell everyone and what I truly believe is that there are a lot of things on that ballot. It's not just the president that makes an impact on our daily lives. But I haven't decided. I'm still waiting to see are they actually going to act to stop a genocide.

And if there is not a call, if there's not a ceasefire in the next two weeks, do you think you'll be voting for something or against something? Would you be voting as a protest? How are you going to think that through? I am going to vote in a way that I can, I see that I can actually have an impact on elections and I can see that I have an impact

on policies in this country. And I have an impact on on policies in this country and I think there's only one path for that. We'll let you get back to your tea. Thank you for taking us here. This is delicious. Thanks for talking to us. I'm glad you like it. You're welcome. Thank you. In 2017 it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news so I started a podcast called On Drugs.

We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. In East Dearborn, about 10 minutes away, I meet up with Samra Lukman,

who's a local community organizer and activist. Tell us where we are here. We are right here in Hadass Coffee Shop in Dearborn, Michigan. What were you eating before we came in? I was eating the honeycomb bread. It's like a pastry almost, but it's bread with almost like a dinner roll kind of bread, but inside there's like a cream cheese puff, and it's drizzled with honey on top. It's absolutely phenomenal. Make sure before I leave that I get that. Don't let me forget to order one of these. I won't. I won't. It's good. So we're a couple of weeks out before the election. Yes,

we are. How are you reading the election from your perspective? Well, it depends on where. In Dearborn specifically, especially on the east side of Dearborn where there's majority Arabs and Muslims, I think that it's probably heavily going to lean towards Trump or Stein, but absolutely very few Harris voters, very few. Help me understand that. What is the issue that's driving that? Well, number one is Gaza. I mean, accountability for the genocide is absolutely the driving rationale behind leaving the Democrats right now. This is part of, I mean, in the lead up to the convention and the days following that,

there was a lot of talk around this uncommitted movement. Can you just explain what that is? Yeah. So, well, I was a part of the Abandon Biden campaign. And really early on, we set an ultimatum that if Biden did not call for a ceasefire by October 31st of 2023, that we would abandon him in the general elections. And we stayed true to our word. In the primaries, what we did is we organized an anybody will Biden vote. Really, there was a separate movement also pushing for a Democratic uncommitted. But all in all, we saw 101,000 Democrat uncommitted voters and as well as another 33,000 Republican uncommitted voters. And it was really a testament to people saying we are unhappy with what's happening in Gaza and we are also unhappy with both candidates.

What was the motivation for that idea of abandon Biden? the motivation for that idea of abandon Biden? It was an assertion of our political strength to say that if you don't listen and you don't value us, then we are going to leave the party or leave the top of the ticket. And it still remains at the forefront. People are not going to be voting for Harris, specifically because of the refusal to change course. Is it true you're a Bernie Sanders supporter? I wrote in Bernie Sanders in 2020. You wrote in Bernie Sanders? I wrote him in. Far from the left?

I'm extremely, yes. To Donald Trump? Yes. Walk me through that journey. So there's a lot of cognitive dissonance happening, and it took a lot of thought. It's the reason that, although I was approached back in April by the Trump team,

I have not endorsed until September 27th. It took a long time to come up with this decision. And I'm not saying I'm a Republican. On the contrary, I worked on Democratic campaigns as late as the primary, August primary, literally for Democratic candidates. So I'm still voting Democrats down ballot. However, at the top of the ticket, I've been able to rationalize why this is a better vote and better for the country and better for the world. There's a few things in there that you said that I think are really interesting. One is, are you voting for Donald Trump or are you voting to punish the Democratic Party?

Mostly for punishment. For punishment? Mostly, yes. But there have been some things that he's stated that really kind of made me think, you know what, maybe that is somebody I should vote for, to your point. Like what? He's stated that if somebody didn't listen to him on the world stage, he would consider withholding military aid. He stated in April before it became cool,

before it became a talking point of the uncommitted campaign. And so that for me was was something that kind of made me think, OK, if if Biden drew that red line in Rafa and Bibi, you know, crossed that red line and humiliated him on the world stage and Biden didn't do anything about it. How would that have played out differently if Trump had been the one that drew the red line? It really made me think that maybe there is something to this peace through strength talking point. He has also said that he wants Israel to, in his words, finish the job. He has talked about in past a total shutdown of Muslims coming into the country, what was known as the Muslim ban. He has used the word Palestinian as a pejorative. Help me understand that. How is voting for somebody who has done that and said that, how does that help the community? So for one thing, the Muslim ban, I have full faith in my democracy. I've seen this president impeached twice. I've seen the

Muslim ban itself go through rigorous court proceedings where it was amended several times to make it legal. And so if Donald Trump was to pass something that was detrimental to our community, I have full faith in the democracy and the checks and balances that were written into our constitution that he would be held to account. Do you think that he supports ending the war now when he says finish the job? Is that finish the job, meaning stop it? Or is he giving Israel more of a green light? That's the question that a lot of people are asking us.

Yeah, so I can't speak for him. But I can tell you in my meeting with him, I'd gone in with a piece of paper, and the one thing I was going to ask for was a permanent and immediate ceasefire. And I introduced myself. I told him, you know, Mr. President, I know we don't probably agree on many or any policies. And what I need you to do is I need you to come to Dearborn and tell the people what they need to hear. And I was literally dumbfounded because he immediately said, yes, you're right, we need to stop the war. What do you think of a protest vote? I mean, for people who would say that protesting something

isn't going to achieve anything, that voting for somebody that is against your interests, you use the idea of cognitive dissonance, that it's hard to kind of rationalize, that voting in a protest, as a protest, isn't going to achieve any real aims. What would you say to people who find it difficult to understand how a protest vote can actually help your community or help the country? So ironically, that is exactly a talking point that was told to us by Democrats, to vote the lesser of two evils. Wrap your head around picking the one that's less evil.

And that is exactly what I'm doing in this election. I'm voting against genocide. Genocide is the greatest evil compared to Muslim bans, compared to women's rights. Everything that I love and care for, there is no greater evil to me than a genocide. So for me, I am voting the lesser of evils, of two evils. There's a lot of anger, I mean, in speaking with people elsewhere in the country, around not the power that the community has, but the fact that the vote here could determine

not just what happens in Michigan, but what happens across the United States. People have said that the community could be cutting off its nose to spite its face in some ways. How do you explain to people who are angry with the exercising of that power in this community what's going on? So people who are outside of Dearborn, outside of Michigan, how do you explain to them what you're doing? What I would explain is that

whatever scare tactics, whatever policies that we are being threatened with, whatever may happen under Trump, we are not a politically immature or ignorant community. We are very astute and we know what's coming. And we are weighing it against the continuation of the genocide. And so for us, we've made a calculated decision that voting for Trump would effectuate accountability. Not only would it effectuate accountability, but it is actually building a space for us on the Republican side to have policies being more favorable towards Muslims. The question we've been asking people

wherever we've been, we were just down in Arizona and we're here in Michigan now, is what's at stake in this election? For you, what's at stake? Okay, so I have a choice between continuing loss of life versus an immigration ban that I don't support, women's rights that I've espoused and supported, minority rights, Islamophobia, hate rhetoric, everything that I've cared about, climate change, everything that I've cared about is at stake. climate change, everything that I cared about is at stake. But again, is that worth the lives of, as we see those videos, people being burned alive?

Is it worth it? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. It's worth it. Everything is at stake. Everything. But it's worth it. Thanks for talking to us.

I really appreciate it. No, thank you for your time. I appreciate you. And yes, by the way, I did get that honeycomb bread. It was delicious.