The Current - The fate of Marineland's beluga whales

Episode Date: October 2, 2025

Marineland wanted to ship their 30 captive beluga whales to an amusement park in China — but the federal government stopped them. And with the once iconic amusement park shutting its doors, the question of what to do with whales, and whose responsibility they should be, remains unclear. W

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. The fate of 30 beluga whales at the Marine Land Aquarium in Niagara Falls, Ontario, is now in limbo. The federal fisheries minister, Joanne Thompson, has denied a request for the whales to be moved to another amusement park in China. C-30 beluga's in contained spaces was very difficult. You know, I think as Canadians, we know that holding these marine mammals for entertainment purposes is not in their best interest. We have to do better. And so the decision, and it was a difficult decision, but really at the center of the decision, is the acknowledgement that we cannot perpetuate what we know is wrong.

Marine land says it is profoundly disappointed by the decision. For years, animal rights advocates have criticized the theme park for keeping whales and dolphins in captivity. In 2021, the provincial government declared that all marine marine rights advocates have criticized. mammals at marine land were in distress, citing poor water. One killer whale and 19 belugas have died at the park since 2019. The park closed its doors to the public late last summer and has not reopened, leaving the question of what to do with the marine animals still living there. Marine land has tried to obtain permits from the federal government to relocate the 30 beluga whales to the Chimlong Ocean Kingdom Aquarium in China. With that request now denied, experts say there

aren't many options left. Andrew Trites is a professor and director of the University of British Columbia's Marine Mammal Research Unit. He's in Vancouver. Andrew, good morning. Good morning. What do you make at the federal minister's decision to deny marine lands request to move these beluga whales to China? I was surprised, in part because it's one thing to say no, but there were no other options provided. It's like, so now what? And I'm afraid there really are very few options. The minister says the Fisheries Act protects marine mammals from exploitation, and

as we just heard, she says that deciding against the request was to prevent these whales from living a life in captivity for public entertainment. What do you make of that reasoning, that this request would protect the whales from having to perform for humans somewhere else? I think it's a little bit

short-sighted. I think it's one thing to recognize that, yes, when the whales are in these public facilities, they are, providing entertainment, but that's only a piece of the pie. They also provide public education. It's a way that people can connect with marine life. We know, for example, today we have a world fascination with killer whales. Well, a lot of that credit would go back to the Vancouver aquarium, which brought the first killer whale into captivity. And while today, we'll judge that

very harshly, we can't ignore the fact that that changed the world's perceptions, looking into the eye of a killer whale, seeing the way in which people could be. be up close, and we understand the animals so much better. So I think in the case of beluga whales, that is a gateway into understanding the effects of climate change in the Arctic and what these species and others are about to lose. The other piece is beyond education is research. And I think a lot of people overlook the fact that so much of what we know about marine mammals and still need to learn about marine mammals comes from being able to study them up close. The sorts of questions

we have is, well, how much food do they need? Are they affected by noise? What can they hear? Their eyesight, their ability to digest different types of fish. All these are questions that you can't ask of a wild animal, but there are a means to provide the data needed to protect and conserve animals in the wild. Do we know whether any of those things were happening at marine land or are going to happen at this aquarium in China?

No, I don't know. Or are they just going to be there to, you know, leap through the for people who pay to get into the park? That I don't know. I mean, I could think, I would expect that it should be a condition of wherever the animals are sent. You know, you need to look at a few factors. One is their physical

well-being. Another is their mental well-being. But also the fact that I think as Canadians, we expect these animals to contribute to a greater good so that lives have greater meaning. And I think that should be one of the conditions.

And I know that if a facility had applied for the purpose of research, that is a condition under which the Canadian government could issue a permit. But it has to be meaningful research. It can't just be lip service. Can I ask you about the physical and mental well-being? I mentioned that in 2021, the provincial government in Ontario said that all marine mammals at marine land were in distress, citing poor water. The whales live in marine land in about an acre of space for 30 of them. What impact does that have on the whales? I don't know. I've never been to marine land. I've only seen drone images of it.

The one thing, though, that strikes me is that the conditions there, well, by, I guess most people's standards, looks impoverished, not good at all, and yet they have currently 30 whales there. And somehow these conditions have enabled the animals to breed, to support a large number, and perhaps there's some parallels with their environment in the Arctic. where this species has evolved to survive and live amongst ice flows, small openings. And I suspect that compared to other species of marine mammals, at the time with dolphins or killowels,

the bluga is much better adapted to be in a small space and live together. And somehow these conditions, whether or not it is simulating something they might encounter in the Arctic, but they seem to be better adapted to that. I think one of the evidence that they have done well there is the fact that they've been breeding there quite successfully. What sort of care do the whales need? And I mean, part of this is about the mental well-being in terms of socializing. To your point, I'm not an expert. I don't know whether an acre of space for 30 whales is enough or not, but they're not in their natural habitat.

They're not in their natural habitat. But in terms of the care that they're getting, it is daily care. Every animal would be monitored to keep track of any slight changes in behavior. There might be an indication of a health problem. But in terms of engaging with the animals, You know, it's perhaps a little bit like if you have a dog at home, you know, you can do activities with it and engage it and give things challenging or you can just leave it alone to do absolutely nothing all day, in which case you end up, I think, with a depressed animal. And so when we look at the entertainment side of marine mammals, seeing that as a negative thing by most people's standards, at the same time, it is providing a stimulating activity for the animal. it has challenged them to think and to do things.

One cannot force the whale to do anything. It doesn't want to do. So they're certainly engaging things that are giving positive reinforcement. And so in many ways, it is addressing the mental needs and health of the animals by having them take part in activities, which are framed as shows. While they live in captivity. I mean, that's... Well, they live in captivity, exactly.

And the other part is, too, is just having the animals in these family groupings. And it would appear that amongst the animals that they have social interactions with other whales, a sense of community, family. And they also develop those same attachments with their handlers and their trainers. The question now is to what to do with these whales. There's 30 bulugas, and they're not going to China, apparently. The Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, was speaking about this yesterday. Have a listen.

What we can do, it's not just going to China. We can look at other areas that will take these whales. You know, we don't have to move all 30 in one shot. a couple here, a couple there, and we want them to survive. And if they don't, well, federal government has to answer on that one. Are there places in Canada or other parts of the world that could take the whales, maybe in small groups, as the Premier is suggesting? There aren't that many facilities. China stands out in large part because they have, as their economy has grown, they have been building

bigger and better aquariums. And so that would be one reason why there are facilities in China. We think Canada is no longer possible to keep whales in captivity. And so, well, historically, the Vancouver Aquarium might have been an option. That's not on the table any longer. So in terms of the decision that's been made, there is nowhere within Canada to put them into another facility. And so that doesn't leave many options about what will happen to these animals. You say it doesn't leave many options. CBC is reporting that from a source after the minister's decision yesterday, what's left of Marine Land is about to file for bankruptcy.

This is a theme park that has been the subject of numerous journalistic investigations. As I mentioned, they haven't opened up last summer. It looks like they're going to file for bankruptcy. That source told CBC that Marine Land is going to hand the whales over to the government to be euthanized. How likely is it that these whales could end up being, euthanized? I think there's a very high probability, which I think is totally unacceptable. That should not even be on the table. But the reality is that if the animals now become the responsibility of the government of Ontario, they're going to have to pay to continue their upkeep. The

marine lands is saying that they're spending $2 million a month to do that. And so you're going to need to put a lot of money into it. So really, there are only two options if they're to stay within Canada. One is to turn marine land into a palliative care center, but that's going to mean investing even more money into the place, and that's not a good long-term thing to be doing. Another would be to see them go into an open ocean sanctuary of some sort, building a net pen for them. But again, we're looking at 30 animals, and once again, you're just changing the location. it's still going to be a contained space. It's not necessarily going to be any better.

And 30 animals is a huge number of animals for someone to take over and take that responsibility of. If it's not possible to move them in other country and none of these other two options, either the sanctuary never happens or it can't be built to the proper standards or you can't turn marine land into a palliative long-term care facility, I don't see any option the government will be forced to euthanize them. And that'll turn back to Ottawa. Ottawa holds the keys in this case. Without allowing a permit, the animals cannot leave the country.

And so I would say that people on terror are caught between a rock and a hard place. We're going to talk about the possibility of a sanctuary in just a moment. But just very briefly before I let you go, we're talking about whales that are already in captivity. You have described, from your perspective, some benefits in having them there. Knowing what we know now, should we ever be taking whales into captivity? I'd say knowing what we know now in the family structures, I would say no. But we do have circumstances where animals do strand. They're not going to survive.

And one can say, well, we'll just put them down. But I see a need to be able to learn from them. And if we can enrich the lives or save the life of an animal, it cannot be put back into the wild. I can see that both you can save an animal and it can contribute to education. can contribute to research, and it can give back in ways that most people might not realize. Andrew, it's good to speak with you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Andrew Trites is a professor and director of the University of British Columbia's Marine Mammal Research Unit. The spirit of innovation is deeply ingrained in Canada, and Google is helping Canadians innovate in ways both big and small, from mapping accessible spaces so the disabled community can explore with confidence, to unlocking billions in domestic tourism revenue, thousands of Canadian companies are innovating with Google AI. Innovation is Canada's story. Let's tell it together. Find out more at g.co slash Canadian Innovation.

What kind of person takes on the law? Can they ever really know what they're getting into? A really tough-looking guy came up to us and said, are you part of this gay case? My family started getting death threats. I wasn't able to go outside alone anymore. I'm Phelan Johnson, host of See You in Court, a new podcast about the cases that changed Canada

and the ordinary people who made history. This is David and Goliath we have here. Find and follow C.U. in court wherever you get your podcasts. Charles Vinnick is the chief executive officer of the Whale Sanctuary Project. This organization has been trying to set up a coastal sanctuary in Nova Scotia for whales like the belugas from marine land. Charles, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. Thank you. What do you see is the best solution for these 30 beluga whales?

Well, I, first of all, I'm really gratified to see Minister Thompson's statement about sanctuaries are aligned with what we know is the best environment for the whales. And so what we've learned over time is that they don't really thrive in captivity, entertaining the public, and really performing for their meals. What we need to do is create sanctuaries that give them the kind of space they need in a natural environment. It's a challenge, but we're seeing this is a global movement and we really need to move forward with it

and the situation with the whales in marine land in Ontario underscores the need to move forward in this way. You could imagine there are people who are listening and maybe the references of a certain generation that would just say free willy, you know what I mean? let the whales go. And I say that in part because you helped to reintegrate another whale into the wild. This was the orca, Keiko, made famous in that film, Free Willy. The downside, if I can put it that way, is that Keiko only survived a year in the wild. So if you were trying to to answer that

question to somebody who says, just let them go, would trying to integrate these whales, like these belugas, into the wild be an option? What we learned from reintroducing Sincakeko to the wild, and that was really a four-year transition for him, and then a year while he was on his own and still had care. What we learned is that it is very difficult to put a whale back, but we know how easy it is to capture them. And so what we learned is you need to have a sanctuary for them, where they can be cared for full-time, 24-7 care, veterinary care, feeding, enrichment, but still in a natural environment. So returning them to the wild where they're just, in a sense, set free

is probably not an option for any or many over time. But our obligation is to provide them with a natural life. And that's what you've been pushing for. You've been pushing to build this whale sanctuary off the coast of Nova Scotia. Tell me a little bit just briefly about that. What would that have been like? well what we're doing is netting off 100 acres of water space in a least area of 200 acres of water so that will be a space more than a hundred times larger than the largest facility in any marine park in the world so it gives them a natural environment they can swim they can dive they can socialize but it also gives them enough room to move away from animals when they want to because often these facilities are so crowded that there's aggression among the animals

simply because they're too crowded. So we give them enough space where they can actually choose how to spend their time while still receiving full-time care that they truly need. You're speaking about this project in the present tense, but the suggestion is that this is no longer, at this moment, it doesn't seem to be a viable project. There are some local property owners around where this, sanctuary would be who have not given their blessing to it. You need unanimous consent.

They've said that perhaps they're worried that they would lose access to water, for example. So is this project stalled? Is it still viable? Where is it at? We're working very closely with our community partners and with the government to move the project forward. So it's certainly not fully approved yet, but we're working towards that. And we're optimistic that this is the right thing to do for the animals and that we'll be able to move forward. How would this be different than an aquarium? There are scientists who work with marine mammals who have said that

sanctuaries like this one are just like open water aquariums. In an aquarium, animals are in a walled environment. They're acoustic animals. Just as we are a visual animal, it would be like us living in a mirrored room.

Acoustic sounds reverberate back to them. In a natural environment, they can echolole locate, they have space, they can interact with critters on the sea floor. It's as close as possible to giving them a life that they were really evolved to have, understanding that we've created the situation where they need our care, still give them the care they need, but do it in a natural environment that allows them to thrive. How does you understand it? How big is the need for something like this, not just here in Canada, but in other places around the world.

If we are rethinking, and this goes back to the conversation that I was having with Andrew, if we are rethinking whether we should ever have whales in captivity at all. This is the way forward. We clearly should not have whales in captivity. We've proven that this is not what is good for their welfare. And sanctuaries are being, in a way, demanded by the public around the world. Just as Canada created legislation that prohibits keeping whales and dolphins in captivity, other countries around the world are doing the same. And the answer is, we do need to create sanctuaries for them.

Is it difficult? Of course it is. But it's less expensive than building a new tank for them in any marine park. And certainly the resources exist to treat them in the way they deserve. I appreciate the optimism that you have around your project. but the reality is it is not viable right now. It is not happening. And the clock is ticking when it comes to where these belugas are going to go. What do you think is going to happen?

I mean, this goes back to the question of what's the best solution. The suggestion is from, again, the source that CBC spoke with, that they could be turned over to the government and euthanized. Is that, do you think, going to be ultimately the outcome here? I don't think so. I don't think the public and I don't think the government will allow that to be the outcome. The first step really is to get health assessments of each individual. You've mentioned how many have died at Marine Land over the last few years.

We need to know what the health of every individual is, and we need to treat them as the individuals they are. And we wouldn't, you know, relegate people who are suffering or anyone else to this kind of a concern. We would get together. We would figure out what's possible. So I think the government should convene all the stakeholders convene marine land, other non-profit organizations,

zoo and aquarium leaders, and look at all the possibilities that we can conceive of. Let's be creative. Let's think of ways to really treat these animals the way they deserve. Create, perhaps, as I understood it, that the palliative care facility at Marina? Is that a possibility? Certainly as an interim, we need to be doing that. They need to be cared for where they are.

Now, the facility is in difficult straits. Marine land has earned millions of dollars from these animals, and they've entertained millions of people from Canada and the world. So we owe them trying to do them right. Charles, good to speak with you. Thank you. You're welcome. Charles Vinnick is the chief executive officer of the Whale Sanctuary Project. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.

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