The Current - The North is open for business — but not for sale, say premiers

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

Leaders in Canada’s North have a message for U.S. President Donald Trump: the North is not for sale. Matt Galloway talks to Yukon Premier Ranj Pillai, N.W.T. Premier R.J. Simpson, and Nunavut Premier P.J. Akeeagok about what they need from Ottawa to shore up Arctic sovereignty.

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This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, it's Matt here. Thanks for listening to The Current wherever you're getting this podcast. Before we get to today's show, wonder if I might ask a favor of you if you could hit the follow button on whatever app you're using. There is a lot of news that's out there these days. We're trying to help you make sense of it all and give you a bit of a break from some

of that news too. So if you already follow the program, thank you. And if you have done that, maybe you could leave us a rating or review as well. The whole point of this is to let more listeners find our show and perhaps find some of that information that's so important in these really tricky times. So thanks for all of that. Appreciate it. And on to today's show. The President of the United States has his eye on the Arctic.

Donald Trump wants to take over Greenland and insists that Arctic control is an urgent priority necessary, he says, for countering Chinese control in the region and accessing critical minerals. The Premiers of Yukon, Northwest Territories and Nunavut are joining together to reassert Canadian sovereignty in the North and they have a message for Donald Trump, the Arctic is not for sale. I am joined now by the three territorial Premiers, Yukon Premier, Ranch Pillay is in our Whitehorse studio, Northwest Territories Premier, RJ Simpson is in Hay River and the Premier of Nunavut, PJ Akiyaguk is in our Whitehorse studio. Northwest Territories Premier R.J. Simpson is in Hay River.

And the Premier of Nunavut, P.J. Akiyaguk, is in our Ottawa studio. Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Dr. Kuhn. Morning, Matt. Donald Trump has said that he wants Canada to become the 51st state. One of his former advisors, Steve Bannon, has said that the Arctic, in his words, is Canada's softest underbelly. Premier Simpson, how real do you think the threat

to Canada's sovereignty in the Arctic is? I don't expect that we're gonna see tanks rolling over the border in the very near future, but I think that Donald Trump has looked at a map of the world from the top down, was centered on the North Pole, and he has looked at Russia, with all of their military installations,

he's looked at Scandinavia with theirs, and he's looked at North America without, you know, the same type of military infrastructure. And I think that he's looking at the Arctic as a strategic location for defense, but also a resource-rich area. Premier Akeguk, do you share those concerns? Do you think that Donald Trump has his eye on the North?

Oh, absolutely. I think we've all known the importance and the significance of the North. In Nunavut, we really have had to pay a huge price in terms of sovereignty when you look at the importance of the Northwest Passage, when you start looking at the opportunities that are there, whether it's critical minerals or whether it's the blue economy in our waters, there's so much potential when you look across the North. And really the vulnerability that we see is a lack of investments we've seen in the North. And that has really put a challenge, not only for Northerners, but I think for Canadians to finally wake up and see the

importance the North plays for Canada. I, to finally wake up and see the importance the North plays for Canada. I want to pick up on some of the things that you've said, but just finally to Premier Pillay, I mean, Donald Trump says any number of things, but do you take his focus on the North, when it comes to Greenland, do you take that seriously, that that might extend to this country's North?

It's definitely an opening position on a negotiation. Look, there's been a long presence of US military infrastructure in Greenland, and that hasn't changed. I think it's diminished over time, but there's definitely a posture we're seeing on reasserting there. Successive northern leaders have been calling on Canada to ensure that we had dual, dual use infrastructure built out. We knew that healthy communities and supported communities were going to be key to sovereignty for us.

And we know that over a long period of time, we just have not made the commitments when it comes to the military infrastructure that's required. So I think he's looking at the gaps and he knows that there is some room to push us and You know how far he will go is you know how far we let him go Well and part of this is about the three of you being down in Washington last week as part of this premier's meeting with the Trump

Administration premier Simpson you said when you were there the people of the north are the ones asserting Canada's sovereignty What did you mean by that in the context of what we've just been talking about? Well when you look at North America you look at at Canada, the North, the Arctic, it's a vast, vast area. And in the Northwest Territories, we have joint task force, North headquarters, and a forward operating location in Yellowknife and in Inuvik. But we don't have the type of really hard military infrastructure that asserts Canada sovereignty militarily.

And so it is the occupation of the land by the, you know, the 120,000 northerners that are there asserting sovereignty. That's really what we have in place. We don't even have the, the, a lot of the hard infrastructure in terms of roads and power grids and things like that. So it really is the people and the communities that show that this land is Canada. You have seen that Premier Akihiko firsthand. You talked about the price that people in the North have paid.

We've talked about this before. You grew up in Greece Fjord, which is a community that was created when the Inuit were forcibly relocated to the high Arctic. And you talked about people being portrayed and used as human flag poles in some ways. That was the language that you used. Given that, what is your vision for Arctic sovereignty? Yeah, as I've mentioned, In have paid a high price. They were forcefully relocated up to both Greece for Jordan and Resolute Bay so Canada could assert their sovereignty over the Arctic. So really at the heart of it has always been about people and the

importance people have to the communities but to the North as well. I am a very proud Canadian, even though that is really a dark history in terms of how the federal government had treated Indigenous people, in this case Inuit, for sovereignty. But I think Inuit have really known the importance of a role that we will play and we really feel there's an opportunity for us have really known the importance of a role that we will play. And we really feel there's an opportunity for us to really unlock the true potential that's there before us. So it's really important when you look at Nunavut in the context that it's 20% of Canada's landmass.

We have 23 of the 34 critical minerals that Canada has listed. And there's nation-building projects that we've pushed, whether it's the Arctic Security Corridor, which is a Graze Bay Road and Port project out in the right on the mouth of the Northwest Passage, or it's the Deep Sea Port in Rikertardsoil that could unlock so much potential in our blue economy. So it's really targeting those investments that we do see where Canada needs to step up to start asserting our sovereignty over the Arctic. Do you think people down south understand that idea of 20% of Canada's landmass?

No, but I believe people are starting to pay attention. I've never seen such unity from coast to coast to coast that we're experiencing now. And I think people have that sense of pride of being an Arctic nation and I think we've neglected to see investments to the north. And I think we're at this moment right now in our history that's very important. And Canadians, Canadians I'm talking to right down here are talking the exact same thing that we need to see investments happen across the country, but in particular to the north. It feels like that strategization and the deal making might already be underway in some ways,

because earlier this week there was a meeting in Saudi Arabia, Russia and the United States were there and among the things they were talking about was a possible cooperation on energy projects in the Arctic. So given that, Premier Pillay, what role do you see the North playing in any new deal between Canada and the United States? Clearly, the US is already having conversations more broadly about the North. Yeah, you know, I would think that the conversation about energy in the North is really focused on Alaska in the context of that conversation. You know, we saw on the very first day of the presidency, executive orders being signed that really focused on Alaska.

And there's, I think, an interest in Alaska, and I think that's where you'll see America look towards their energy dominance. For us in the North, it's really, you know, it's three, I think, major pillars we have to look at. One, which my colleagues have touched on, which is dual use infrastructure and nation building projects. And that is an opportunity for us to be at the table and to build that out,

which is going to support the work of NORAD, which in, you know, vis-a-vis the relationship with the U.S. when it comes to security of the North. And I think that that is still in play. The second part of that is how do we deal with building out hard infrastructure? And maybe that is early detection. Maybe that is an ability to react to challenges

from other unfriendly countries. And I think, you know, our defense minister has had lots of conversations with his US counterparts and there's an ability to not just do the 73 billion dollar plan that's been tabled, but to look at more of an opportunity to build out across the Arctic in the north. And the third is critical minerals, which PJ talked about. And you know, they don't have the critical mineral wealth that Canada has and they know they need it. And you've seen the way they've asserted it in their negotiations, even with, I think, rare earth metals in Ukraine.

So it's the one thing I think, um, that's going to be key for us to put on the table to say, you can't say no to this, but in order to have US and Canadian companies extract and to be part of that ecosystem, to be part of that supply chain, we're going to have to have a real serious conversation about tariffs. And you feel, you feel like you have leverage in that? Yeah, we're going to have to have a real serious conversation about tariffs. And I think that is- You feel like you have leverage in that?

Yeah, I think we do have leverage in that because everybody that is friendly in the world is coming and meeting with all of us. We've had a steady flow of diplomats walk into our offices for the last three, four, five years that all want to understand how they can partner with Canada to work on ensuring they have a supply chain for critical minerals. You've also met with Donald Trump Jr. Is that right? Yes, I have, yeah. What came out of that conversation? Yeah, we... Look, he was quite guarded, and I want to be fair to him.

You know, he... It was before the President was installed. It was in December, right? It was in December, yeah, it was early December. I mean, the three of us were in a meeting. We had just been briefed by the three former ambassadors from Canada to the US. Christia Freeland announced in the middle of the briefing that she was stepping down.

There was a bit of concern, there was angst in the room. I think we all were trying to figure out a way to help Canada to do what we could. I sought some advice from Frank McKenna, who is a well-known Canadian leader and former ambassador and said, you know, what do you think I should reach out? I've met this individual before. Absolutely, you should. And that led to a meeting a few days later. And within that dialogue I had with him, it was really, you know, straight numbers to say, look, what's being said by the US is incorrect. Like, let's really talk about the data. Why are we not having a discussion about what we can do together?

And when we talk about critical minerals, which you need, Canadian and US companies work very well together. We have a good mining ecosystem. Canada does this well. And when we think about this, why are we not trying to onshore all of the processing that's happening for all these critical minerals, not let countries control the supply chain and turn it off at their whim, which we've seen over and over again now coming from China. And why are we not creating new parts of our economy that we did not have together instead of trying to go into an economic battle? Premier Simpson, in the context of that, when you say the Arctic is not for sale, do you think that message gets through to those who would want to get their hands on those critical minerals? Well, when I say the Arctic is not for sale, do you think that message gets through to those who would want to get their hands on those critical minerals? Well, when I say the Arctic is not for sale, I mean that we're part of Canada.

This is Canada and it's not going to be part of the United States, not a 51st state or anything like that. But the North is open for business. We do have a lot of resources in the territory across Northern Canada. So we have a regime in the Northwest Territories where resources can be extracted by companies from anywhere in the world and they can be exported. So we're not looking to be subsumed by another entity, but we're happy to do business with the rest of the world. And that's that mutually beneficial relationship that we've had with the United States for decades now, like Ranj was saying.

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Premier Acosta, can I go back to something that you said earlier, which was just the importance of investment in the North from this country's government and also understanding the importance of the North? Here, your government has been calling for a deep seaport, a road to be built in Grays Bay in the middle of the Northwest Passage. You've talked about nation building as well. What does that mean, nation building in the context of those investments? You look across the country and look at the history. Canada was built right from the East

Coast right to the West Coast and I've been very fortunate to have seen the investments Canada did to unite this country with the construction of the railway, you see all the highway networks that you see. So those are nation-building opportunities where Canada has invested to bring the movement of people and goods so that we could create our economies for us to become prosperous as we should be. But you look to the northern coast and that nation-building hasn't happened. There's a huge infrastructure gap that you see between north and south. So the Graves Bay Road and Port Project has really been in the vision of Inuit for decades. And these are indigenous led, Inuit led initiatives that really could for the first

time connect the north to the south. And benefit the whole country, not just benefit, I mean, it's not to diminish a specific region, but this would be something if you're talking about nation building that builds for the whole country. Absolutely, we're talking about creating new markets right now just in this country, the conversations around diversifying our economy and we should look to the north, but it starts with actual investments. There's been many conversations around looking at studies, having great discussions, but the missing link we've seen is actually seeing the investments to get shovels on the ground and projects getting

done. Why do you think that is? Is that because the decision-making is concentrated in the south? I believe so. That's really been the challenge, I think. You see where all the votes are and the North has often been neglected, seeing these large nation-building projects. We're hearing that there's a rail announcement happening. High-speed rail between Montreal and Toronto. Another nation-building project right there where it connects people and brings movement, but that the Northern piece, I think, has been overlooked, but we

have so much potential around what we could deliver not only to the country, but to the world. Matthew 20 The leader of the Conservative Party, Pierre Paulyev, recently announced that if he were to be elected and he were to be Prime Minister, he would open a new military base in Halwit, but he did not consult with you or your government before making that announcement. When the idea of an Arctic ambassador was floated by the federal government, he said on social media to do diplomacy with who? Santa Claus? What did you make of that? Yeah, first, I actually just had a very constructive meeting with Mr. Poliev here just in the last

few days, but I think it's so important to ensure that Northerners are at the table. Do you feel like you weren't at the table before? I mean, when he announced something that you weren't there? Dr. Raghuram G. Rajan Yes, we weren't at the table. And it was very clear that I had to mention not only to Mr. Poliev, but I've mentioned that to the Prime Minister as well as any minister that we engaged. It's so critical that northerners are at the table and to ensure that the vision that we have for

our people, for our territory is incorporated to the plan. Just before I let you go, let me ask you all one final question. It's about the moment that we're in, where there is this extraordinary outburst of Canadian pride and this sense of who we are as a nation. We are a northern nation in many ways, and the idea of the north is really central in so many ways To what Canada is and yet as we've said so much of the population and the decision-making power rests down south in this moment. What would you want Canadians to be thinking about premier pillay? that we all

Have part of the north in us like it's this is this is Canada, you might not have spent time here, but it is paramount that this moment is not lost. That we make sure that our lawmakers, make sure our policymakers commit to ensuring that we do move forward with the right investments in the north, that it becomes part of the conversation in the south. I'll share with your listeners, PJ and RJ have done an incredible job and I've had a chance to help make sure that all of our southern premiers, all of our premiers that represent all the listeners that you have in the south, all

stand behind us and support us. So we have to ensure that our federal leaders, whoever they are, don't let this moment go by, and that we don't leave the opportunity like we have in the past. It's been a conversation that's come and gone, but that we do commit to the North, and it's really gonna be beneficial to every Canadian. Premier Simpson, what do you want Canadians

to be thinking about? The North is at the center of Canada's strategic future in terms of Canada's sovereignty, in terms of our security, and in terms of our economy. We have the resources in the North that are untapped and could impact Canada's GDP, not just the Northern territories, but Canada's GDP, but

it's going to take investments. It's expensive to build things in the North. That's just the facts of life. That's the way it is. And that's a big part of the reason we haven't seen these investments because they don't provide that near-term political gain, perhaps. But if we're looking at the long-term sovereignty, security and economic health of Canada, we need to make investments in the North.

Last word to you, Premier Akegu. Can I ask you this in part because of what you said earlier about the sacrifice that you personally have made in defence, if I can put it that way, of this country. What do you want Canadians to think about now? That we're part of Canada as equally as everyone down south, and I think it's so important to seize the moment, to see the opportunity, and as my good friend, Arjay just mentioned, it's really at the heart of what's coming. And I think we really hold a very strong ticket

in terms of our opportunity for us to play a big role, not only in the country, but around the world of what we could offer, whether it's the critical minerals that are in the ground or the blue economy in our waters, but that we need to start seeing investments into the north. When we succeed, Canada succeeds, and I think any investments that are brought to the north only benefits the south where we really bring all the resources in.

But it's really a moment that we're in in and I think it's so important that we continue to unite as a country and really from truly from coast to coast to coast that we come together to build the most resilient economy, the resilient people that we have in our country as Canadians. This is an important conversation and I'm glad that all three of you are available to have it with us. Thank you very much and all the best. Thanks, man. Yeah, koye na mi man.

Yukon Premier Ranj Pele was in our Whitehorse studio, the Premier of the Northwest Territories. R.J. Simpson was in Hay River and the Premier of Nunavut, P.J. Akyaguk was in our studio in Ottawa.