The Current - These teens grew up with social media. Now, they’re ditching it

Episode Date: March 10, 2025

Today’s teenagers have grown up with smartphones, but some have turned away from these devices’ constant demand for attention. Matt Galloway talks to three 18 year olds who have either unplugged from social media or forgone smartphones completely.

What does a mummified Egyptian child, the Parthenon marbles of Greece and an Irish giant all have in common? They are all stuff the British stole. Maybe. Join me, Mark Fennell, as I travel around the globe uncovering the shocking stories of how some, let's call them ill-gotten, artifacts made it to faraway institutions. Spoiler, it was probably the British. Don't miss a brand new season of Stuff the British Style. Watch it free on CBC Gem. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Sounds stressful, doesn't it? This is the soundtrack of teenage life these days.

The average teenager gets 237 notifications on their phone every single day. Smartphones and social media have transformed our social interactions, how we learn, the information we consume. And this has had a profound effect on teens teens in particular, teens who have grown up with those phones in their pockets and in their hands. Jonathan Haidt is the author of The Anxious Generation. He was on this program last December talking about what he described

as the great rewiring of teenage brains. Puberty is this very special, delicate rewiring process. And in that period, the whole brain is actually locking down into certain patterns. And now the brain is much more effective, it's faster, it can do things, but it's now much less plastics. That rewiring process that really happens rapidly

in puberty that we need to protect. And tragically, that is exactly when we give kids a smartphone and social media. There is an ongoing conversation about how best parents, schools, and legislatures could manage teen phone use. In the meantime, our next guests have taken matters into their own hands. They are all 18 years old and at some point or another ditched social media or smartphones in an effort to regain control over their time and attention.

Gavin McNeil is in grade 12 in Ottawa. Will Joy is a grade 12 student in Vancouver. And Leonie Chepol is in her second year of Cégep, the college system in Quebec. She joins us from Quebec City. Good morning, everyone. Hello, hello. Good morning. Gavin, you have been off social media for what, a year now?

Yeah, a year and a bit. I got off in January of 24. And you switched to a flip phone more than a year ago? Yes. Why did you do all of that? Well, I had an iPhone for many years and at a certain point, I was finding myself spending way too much time on my phone. I was getting mad at myself. I was wasting my time. It was pointless I found and you know I started getting rid of social media. Got rid of TikTok at some points Instagram, YouTube but I would find myself always re-downloading the apps and then taking them off again and I was stuck in this cycle and I remember one day I was walking with a friend

and we were talking about this and he was going through the same thing and I just thought about I would much prefer a world without any phones, you know, I'd be much happier. And you know, in that moment I kind of realized, you know, why should I let society hold me back from something I really want to do? In that moment I kind of decided I should, you know, maybe get a flip phone and, you know, that might solve my problems. Do you remember when you first got a phone?

Like when did the phone end up in your hands for the first time? Like seventh grade, you know, that's kind of the norm. And so you said that one of the things that you found with social media in particular was that it was like sucking up a lot of time and preventing you from, I guess, being present. Tell me a bit more about that and what you weren't able to do because of all of the attention that was being gobbled up by your phone.

You know, just hours every day, swiping, you know, just craving information, seeing what people are up to, things like that. I felt like I wasn't present. If it was at home, at school, on the way to, on the bus in transit and stuff like that, I just felt like I was sucked into my iPhone. The thing now is that with a smartphone, I mean, it allows you to do so many things

that in many ways our lives depend on, right? I mean, it's calling an Uber, it's doing your banking online, it's ordering food, two-factor authentication, knowing kind of what's going on with people. Do you feel like you're missing out on things without the smartphone? You know, I always find my way. You know, I'm on my way here today. If I ever Uber, then I ask a friend to order it for me, I pay them back.

I'm pretty good with knowing my way around, taking buses, getting around the city, and just in general. And though, you know, it's integrated into everything, even the classroom at school, there's always a way around it. Though I have to take a few extra steps, I find it worth it. Just two final things on this. One is, how do you listen to music without Spotify? For a bit there, I would take the bus every day without music.

And I started getting, I was kind of fine with that. It was kind of relaxing just getting to school in the morning. And then a few months later, I got an iPod and put some MP3s on there. And I would listen to music on that. But it was an old iPod, so it died pretty easily. But I'll listen to music at that, but you know, it was an old iPod, so it would die pretty easily. But you know, I'll listen to music at home, you know, at my friend's house, stuff like that. But you know, not being connected to music or getting distracted all the time, it feels nice, it feels peaceful. Do you feel, just finally, do you feel like you're missing out on, I mean, so much of being on social media

is friends passing around like memes and jokes and stuff like that. Do you miss out on that? I do miss out, but the thing is, I've now learned to naturally not care. And my friends might explain the newest joke, and I just really don't care, and I don't find it funny that much. But I remembered when I was on social media, that was a big part of social life and the jokes that were around, but now I make my own jokes and creativity spawns in myself. Leonie, you quit social media for a few years when you were in high school. Why did you do that?

Well, the starting point was when I watched the documentary, like the social dilemma on Netflix. And, you know, it was really about the way big companies like Metta were stealing our data. And that was the starting point because it made me also realize how much time I was spending on those platforms like TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat. And I was 14 when I watched that documentary in class. And it just made me start to realize all those things,

and I decided that I would delete all of those things. That was when I realized that I was wasting so many hours before, and it's like new time was found, like hours were appearing in my day. I was able to be more concentrated in school. School wise it was going more real. Because in a way when you have to communicate with people in real life and not through social media, it feels just more genuine. Did you feel like you were wasting time on social media? Like that that was time that was getting sucked up that you you weren't you know spending doing something else?

Oh yes absolutely because I think my screen time average back then was maybe seven to eight hours a day and was just mindlessly scrolling on social media. It had no point. So I was definitely wasting my time on those platforms. And so when you got off of social media, I mean it's the same question that I ask Gavin, were there things that you felt like you were missing out on when you deleted those apps? Well, at first, I thought I was missing out on many things, but like he said, it's things like memes and jokes, and it doesn't really add any meaningful value in my life the way

that not having social media does. So maybe I was missing out a bit on social events as well because people were talking in groups and they were saying, oh, there's this and that, that's going to happen. Maybe I did not know to mean of being on those platforms. At the end of the day, I think it's more worth it to not have them than to not miss out on those things. What did your friends think when you deleted Instagram and TikTok and other things like that? Well, at first there's always a bit of judgment because everyone is on those platforms.

But I didn't know the day like- What did they say to you in the judgment? What did they say to you? Well, they were like, well, you're gonna miss out on everything. We all talk on there. We all talk on Instagram. You're not gonna know what's gonna happen

if we wanna meet up. But that's when you also discover who your real friends are, because they're just going to tell you in person when they see you. Like there are so many things like that. And if people judge, like, you know, I cannot control them, because I just prefer to do my own thing. And it was the best thing that I could do not have social media. Do you think I mean, you mentioned that film, The Social Dilemma, which freaked a lot of people out because it was kind of eye-opening in terms of what those companies that run the social media platforms are doing to us and what they're doing with our data.

Do you think your friends would be willing to give up their smartphones if they were to see that film? I don't think so because yeah, it's pretty scary when you watch it. Like you said, it's eye-opening, but the addiction to social media is sometimes so strong. Like yeah, you delete the app, but you reinstall it right after. I don't think they would be able to give up because that is just a step above.

And you really have to have a whole different mindset to be able to give up on social media and your smartphone. Do you think that they understand how much time they're using? Like you, do they get, even if they're not gonna delete the app, do they get how much time they're spending on their phones and on social media?

I think it depends. Some people realize that they're wasting so many hours, but they're not doing anything about it. And there's some people who don't even see the hours passing by, and I think that's much worse. Will, you still have a smartphone, is that right? That's correct. Yeah, I do. Yeah, but Will, you're not on social media very much.

I still have Instagram, which I check, I would say maybe two minutes a week, maybe two minutes every two weeks. Yeah, so I still have social media, it's just that I have a very curtailed use of it. What was it about your social media use that led you to curtail its use? What was it doing to you? I just, I didn't like how it was capturing my attention.

I thought that it was a use of my attention that was shallow and not worth paying attention to. And I just, I thought that my life could be better directed towards other things. What could you have directed your attention better to? I mean, because one of the reasons why people like social media, even if they know that it's time wasted, is that it can be fun at the same time, right? Yeah, in my case, it was reading, listening to podcasts,

hanging out with friends, being in nature. And these were all things that social media was in some ways preventing you from doing, or at least cutting back on the time that you could do those things? Definitely, yeah. I did have a slight addiction to it. I mean, definitely not as severe as most people,

but yeah, I thought it was grabbing ahold of my attention in a way that was negatively affecting my life. Did it feel like that? Did it feel like an addiction? I would say a minor addiction. The way we use the word addiction nowadays, it's usually connotes a very extreme thing, but I would say that it was a subtle form of addiction.

How hard was it to limit it just to a couple of minutes a week? It was difficult to begin with. I found that I kept reinstalling the app. I kept squandering more and more time on it, but eventually I got into the habit of not using it very much. And why do you check it just once or twice a week? Because I still think it has some networking value. My friends are on social media,

and just to catch up with them, I keep it. For the most part, I think my friend group is not so bound to social media that it's necessary for me. I was gonna say, do you worry that, I mean, checking it once or twice a week is one thing but things happen in the moment and do you worry that you're missing out on things perhaps there's a party to go to or something's happening and people talk about it on social media but by the time

you look at it that thing is over and done with. No because my friends who are more on social media than I am typically for me of those things and so I typically don't miss out. So they'll actually call you or get in touch with you and say, listen, this is happening. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think you've gained by not being on social media as much, Will? More of a control over my mind and intention,

which I think is valuable, and just a better quality of life in general. And I think to a large extent, the quality of your life is just the quality of the in general. And I think to a large extent, the quality of your life is just the quality of the things that you're paying attention to. And so having less time on social media, I think my life is radically improved.

How would you describe that? I mean, you mentioned being in nature, for example, what are you able to do now? Where's the bright spots in your life that perhaps would not have been illuminated in the same way had you still been on Instagram or what have you? Yeah, I enjoy spending a lot of time in nature. And I think that through my curtailed use of social media, I think I have actually a

deeper relationship with some of my friends than I would if I were on social media. That's just the way these apps are constructed. I enjoy reading. I enjoy many pursuits that happen off screen. Do you feel like you can focus more in some ways? I mean, that's the big problem. It doesn't matter whether you're a teenager or, you know, olds like us, that the phone is right there and it's kind of just grabbing your attention, even if you're not looking at it. Definitely. It definitely has improved the quality of my attention, having gone off social media.

I think my attention previously was just so easily caught up on social media that being off of it and also through meditation, which I do quite often, my attention has definitely become stronger, I suppose. Kevin, does that sound familiar? Yes, it does. What do you think you've gained by not being as distracted? Just overall peacefulness and also not having social media or a phone in general just forces me to do something else, to go out more often and that sort of thing.

You're in the province of Ontario and one of the reasons why this is such an issue is because of what's happening not just in the social lives of people but in schools as well. And the province of Ontario has this ban on cell phones in classrooms but you know the conversations we've had with students and with teachers suggest that the ban doesn't really do much of anything. How have you seen it in the classroom? I've been surprised. It's actually been pretty, pretty positive. And people seem to be less on their phones, be more present in class.

And it was a bit easier for me because I was already on my flip phone. But you know, just in class wise, I find it has done some good. What would do better, do you think? Because if it, you know, you have flip phone, but most of your classmates probably don't. And that, you know, whatever app they use is kind of burning away in their pocket, wanting to be looked at.

What do you think would work better when it comes to keeping phones out of the classroom, at the very least keeping students even more engaged? I think that's tough because people tend to, if there's rules and restrictions, people seem to go against them and they find different ways to go on their phone or search something up or play a game on their computer. So I think it's just the battle between the teachers and the school versus the students and there might never be a solution. But it's hard you need rules

right because kids are they're gonna be and it doesn't matter whether it's kids or adults people are going to be attracted the whole point of those apps is that they're designed to take our attention right? Yeah. So you need stronger rules in some ways do you think? You know these rules have been, you know, no phones in class, no taking them out, no ringtones or anything. You know, I find another problem is that the whole classroom is online. You have to have a Chromebook in class. The school gives you a computer and people just tend to go on games instead or whatnot or they'll go on Snapchat on the computer.

Even at my school on the Wi-Fi they've banned, you know, you can't even go on social media apps when you're on the Wi-Fi and this and that. So they've set a lot of rules, but people still find ways around them. I'm Nicola Coughlin, and this is history's youngest heroes, Terry Fox's Marathon of Hope. I think of home a lot. I think of running into Vancouver and running into where I'm going to finish on the ocean and all you got to do is take another step and keep on going. He planned to run 5,300 miles across the second largest country in the world. Makes you believe in the human race again. Join me, Nicola Coughlin, for history's youngest heroes, wherever you get your podcasts.

Leonie, people look toward government to set more rules. You're part of the youth wing of the Coalition Avenir Quebec. What are you calling for when it comes to the enforcement of rules around social media use, particularly in the class? Well, as a political party, we called for more restrictions in the schools, but even more so, we asked the government to create a parliamentary committee to study whether we should have a numerical majority.

I believe it's how you would say it in English, where people under 16 not be on social media at all. So there would be like a legal aspect to it on top of not having the right to have any phones in the schools at all. So even not just in class, but also during the breaks and during lunchtime. But beyond that, you want there to be kind of a ban on social media for people under the age of 16, for example. Yeah, for example, under 16 or another age that will be determined, but I think it's a really great idea because like it was said at the beginning of the show, like when there are young people, really young, they're developing and they should not have

social media influence that comes with it. What do you think the right age would be? I mean, often it's adults who are saying what the right age would be, but as somebody who has grown up with a phone and now has tried to kind of wean yourself off of it, what do you think the right age should be? Well, if it were about me, I think 16 is a great age,

simply because, for example, you have the right to start driving at 16. And I think if we take that same age, it's great for social media as well, because before 16, your brain is still developing. I mean, I would argue it still is at 16 and after, but it's not at the same rate as it is before 16.

So I think it's a great age. Pete Slauson Gavin, what do you think about that? No social media before people turn 16? Gavin McIlvenna You know, that's, I think it's already been like on the apps, you have to be 16, but you know, I just lied about my age. I put, I was 16 when I was 13, but it's, the human mind always wants to rebel. So even if you set rules there, I just find that people always find a way around them.

Will, tell me about the app that you're working on. This is really interesting and it's connected to what we're talking about. Yeah, it's called MindSync. It's a digital hygiene app. Basically, it will give you detailed analytics on how you spend your time on your phone. It will be able to restrict your use of each app.

It's designed to help you regain control of your attention. What does that mean to you, digital hygiene? It means cleaning out what is on your phone that is pernicious. It's about redirecting your attention towards things that are more wholesome and healthy. How much of an appetite do you think there is for something like this for people in your generation? Part of this is about how self-aware people are in your generation about what the phone is doing to them.

Do you think that they would want an app like this? Probably not, to be honest. I think if we're going to advertise, we're going to be advertising to parents. I don't think many people in my generation have the introspection necessary to get on an app like this. But do you think, even if it's not the app, do you think people of your generation are aware

of how much time they're spending on their phones? Yes, and I don't actually think that people in my generation think that, everybody's aware that the way that they're spending their time on social media is not good for them. I don't think anybody thinks it's healthy. Do you feel, Leonie, do you feel let down

by the adults in the room? If people, to Will's point, if people of your generation understand that the amount of time they're spending on social media is not healthy, do you feel like the adults in the room, like the people who lead the schools, the people who lead governments, that they've let you down in some ways? Well, I think that, yeah, they've let me down and others, but I think with all the progress

we're seeing these days, we're finding ways and solutions to limit the screen time used by teenagers, I think it's getting better. What about for you, Gavin? Do you feel like, as I say, the adults in the room maybe have dropped the ball on this? I feel like the main subject about this topic is always about the teens and the kids who use their phones all the time, but adults are just as worse now. And not setting a good example, but it's just, it's everyone, it's all around the world. People, I'll be on the bus, people are checking their emails, they're craving information, the news.

It's really everyone, it's every age. Do you feel that though, I mean, parents will say to you, and I don't know whether it's your parents or not, but parents will say, yeah, these kids who spend so much time on their phones, and they themselves are the ones who are also on their phones. Yeah, I agree with that statement. It's everyone. Are you going to be able to continue doing this, do you think, Gavin? When you go off to,

and if you're going off to university or going into the workforce or what have you, do you think you're going to be able to stay off of, for example, a smartphone and keep on a flip phone? I don't see a world where I go back to a smartphone. I know it might be tougher for me. I'm making it into some industries without, you know, a social media page or even Facebook. But I feel like I'll manage.

And so, like I said before, I have to take a few extra few steps, but I always find a way. What about for you, Will? Do you think that this is something that will stick for you in future or is the society that we're in, where so much of that society runs through those, you know, supercomputers in our pocket, that you'll need to get back onto social media and use the phone to its full power? I think I'll deliberately construct my friend group so that I don't have to be on social on to social media and use the phone to its full power. I think I'll deliberately construct my friend group

so that I don't have to be on social media in order to connect with people. And I think that's kind of the main captivator for many people is that their friend groups are entirely dependent on social media and so they just, they can't get off it without losing friends. I don't think that's gonna be the case for me.

And I don't think that I'm going to need social media for my career. It's interesting, cause one of the things that suggests is that you have power over this. We have kind of ceded power to these companies and to these devices, but you're suggesting that we can take the power back in some ways. Definitely, and part of that is choosing the right friends.

You don't need to be on social media in order to gain any of the benefits that you would otherwise get from social media. You know, networking you can find elsewhere. Any other benefit you can name, you can also find elsewhere. Leigh, and I just finally to you, what would you say to people who would say you need these devices? You need to be on social media to connect with people these days. That's where the conversation happens. That's where those connections are happening. And that to fight against that is like pushing a giant rock up a hill in some ways.

What would you say back to them? Well, I would say that it's not true and that you can absolutely have a social life and navigate the world without social media. But that means taking an extra step and really looking out for solutions to not have to rely on social media. Do you think you're making an impact with those friends, for example, who were kind of judgy before and wondered why you were doing this? Yes, I absolutely think that I am having an impact on them because they've seen that it did me so good, like that I've been able to do so much more with my time and that I was also

genuinely happier and calmer. I'm really glad to talk to you all about this. Everybody kind of knows what's going on with these devices, but it's interesting to hear three people who have decided to take the initiative and put the devices down and take some agency in this. Thank you all for being here. Thank you. Thank you. Gavin McNeil is a grade 12 student in Ottawa.

Will Joy, grade 12 student in Vancouver and Leonie Chippot is in her second year of Cégeps. She was in Quebec city. If you are, it's not just young people, obviously, but speaking specifically about this, if you are a teen or young adult trying to use your phone less, let us know how you have managed to do that.

What are you doing? Taking social media off the phone? Getting a flip phone? You can email us the email address is TheCurrent at cbc.ca. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.