The Current - They both voted for Trump: one regrets it, the other is all in

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

As President Donald Trump delivers his State of the Union, two people who voted for him reflect on their choice. Indiana contractor Pablo Payan says he made a mistake. But masonry, Jon Palaima still thinks Trump is the best of two bad options. 

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This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Our nation is back. Bigger, better, richer, and stronger than ever before. U.S. President Donald Trump makes a lot of speeches, but the stakes for the one he made last night were high. His state of the union address came as his approval ratings slump. Although his base remains loyal, his Republican Party needs to hold on to the House in the midterm elections, which are now about eight months away.

If you agree with this statement, then stand up and show your support. The first duty of the American government is to protect American citizens, not a legal alien. There was a full minute of cheering after that, although Democrats did not stand, and some actually shouted at the president. It was a moment that highlighted divisions over immigration, just one of many topics the president covered in a nearly two-hour speech. In a few minutes, we'll speak with a couple of people who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 about whether they still back the president. But first, we're joined by the CBC's Washington correspondent, Paul Hunter. Paul, good morning.

Hey, Matt, I'm so jacked on coffee right now. That was a long speech and it was a long night. Good morning to you. The president said it was going to be a long speech. What did he need to do in the time that he spoke? Well, I think if you're Donald Trump, you're waking up this morning, you're saying, I did what I needed to do. He stuck to his script, mostly. He came. came out energized and upbeat. He was even keeled and, you know, for the most part measured. And he rhymed off, in his view, his greatest hits with a giant audience watching and listening. I mean, what more does any politician need? Everything as ever, fact checkable, right? But that's almost irrelevant on these nights because most people aren't double checking. They're just listening. So economy booming, life fantastic. Stock market up, inflation down, crime down.

and the terrible landscape left by Joe Biden is now all sorted thanks to Donald Trump. And things will only get better the next three years, he said. Trust him. In a nutshell, that's what he needed to do and that's what he did last night. I mean, the economy is top of mind for so many people. You have the Wall Street Journal this morning saying that Donald Trump hailed an economy, an economic turnaround that most people don't actually see or feel. How did he address the pocketbook issues that are top of mind for so many Americans? In short, as I say, trust him.

right? Like things will be fine. Money's rolling in. He talked about the tariffs. He still very strongly believes in tariffs. He has always had trouble with the word affordability. He likes to say inflation is down and he's right on that. But what he leaves out is that inflation has been coming down or was coming down before he came into office. But it's all about if he says, his his way of framing things historically has been to repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat the positives. If you say things often enough, the bet goes, people will believe it. And that's what he did last night again and again and again. It's the golden age for America. Things will only get better. Things are better now than they were under the terrible times of Joe Biden. Again and

again and again and again. Believe in him and things will be okay. Who does he have to win over as his party faces the midterms later this year in elections that, I mean again, the polling, you're eight months out, Polling suggests that some people, many people, are souring on Donald Trump. Yeah, well, to answer the question, it's the, you know, the so-called soft middle, right? All those voters who can be swayed to go one way or the other. Not MAGA voters. They're still lockstep, always will be. But he needs more than just MAGA, right?

It's, you know, I'm sorry for the cliche here, but it's the soccer moms, the NASCAR dads dads and the suburbs who voted for Trump's policies last time, but who, you know, if they're not dissatisfied enough to go full Democrat in the midterms, they might be dissatisfied enough to stay home and not vote at all. Trump's brand is not so good right now with a lot of people in this country. Inflation is down, right, but like we're saying, affordability is still a problem. People see that every time they go to the store for food. It's literally kitchen table stuff. Like that's the OG election issue, right, everywhere on the planet, effectively. And by the way, you know, as Democrats put it yesterday, Americans aren't stupid. They can connect the dots and they can

see that, you know, Trump's tariffs play a big role in that. So much. of the billions that have been rolling in from tariffs, they go to that sticker shock at the checkout counter. So he needs people to believe everything is okay and amazing by believing his words when he says the economy is back. And as I say, as he put it last night, that this is the golden age. Not to make this all about us, but people were wondering whether he would mention Canada at all, just because of what he has said over the last year. And the anxiety that people feel, the fact that people aren't traveling to the United States and the ways that they did as things get cold in these kinds of months where people are looking for sun and some heat.

They're not going to Florida. They're not going to Palm Springs. He didn't mention Canada. Yeah, you think that's the word we're all listening for, right? I mean, yeah, he, you know, once, right, he mentioned that the U.S. men's hockey team beat a, quote, fantastic Canadian team in overtime. But that's separate, of course, right? I mean, it used to be part of a thing for any Canadian reporter covering the State of the Union was, you know, please mention Canada. So I've got something Canadian to report about from the speech.

But now it's like if he says 51st state, this is going to get messy again. And last night, notably, he did not. And you can interpret that as you may. Did he show any sign of backing down on his immigration crackdown? This is an issue that in some ways his promise to crack down on illegal immigration, the border helped get him into the White House. But the way that he's going about it has turned a lot of people off. Did he say anything about backing down there?

No. Short answer. I mean, even in the clip you played, he was effectively daring Democrats to, like, sort of oppose his view of the way forward. And, you know, let's talk about Ilhan Omar, the Democrat lawmaker from Minnesota. She shouted out at some point, you're killing Americans. That was the heckling that some of the heckling that came from Democrats last night. obviously a reference to the two Americans who were killed by federal authorities during some of the pushback against the crackdown in Minnesota. There was no sign. If Trump got close to getting off script last night, it was at that point, right? There were flashes of anger, I thought, in his eyes when she was shouting at him that way. But he also, he knows that that is the issue that got him back into the White House in the first place.

And he believes that there are enough Americans who support him on that. And many millions do, right? Let's be honest about that. There are many millions who support him on the immigration crackdown, who see undocumented immigrants as, if not being a physical threat, as Trump would have people believe, then being an economic threat and taking jobs, et cetera. Trump still believes that's a winning issue for him.

I'm going to let you go. But your sense is he'll wake up this morning and say job, well done. 100%. Paul, good to talk to you as always. Thank you very much. Thanks, Matt. Paul Hunter, the Washington correspondent for CBC co-host of the two blocks from the White House podcast. You can find that wherever you get to your podcasts. This ascent isn't for everyone.

You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always over delivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights and you can help us keep climbing donate at lovescarborough.ca.

At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak startup funding and comprehensive game plans. We've mastered made to measure growth and expansion advice and we can talk your ear off about transferring your business when the time comes. Because at Desjardin business,

we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us and contact Desjardin today. We'd love to talk business. We're joined now by Pablo Payan. He's a general contractor who lives in Merrillville, Indiana, but an hour's drive outside of Chicago voted for Donald Trump in 2024. We wanted to figure out why and where his vote might go come this fall in those midterm elections. Pablo, good morning.

Good morning. How are you? I'm really well, thanks. You had a history, I suppose, I can put it that way, of voting Democrat. Why did you vote for Donald Trump in 2024? It was more of a put in America first, investing in America, bringing jobs back, stop sending money overseas, these countries that are, you know, committing genocide like Israel and the war between Ukraine and Russia, and the hope that, You know, we'd get better streets, better bridges, better affordable health care. And so a year and a bit into his second term, how do you feel about that vote? It's the complete opposite. I mean, we've sent 20 billion to Argentina. You know, we've hurt these countries in trade with these tariffs.

And you guys have felt a big chunk of this hurt through the tariffs and just creating division between the rest of the world. Was there a specific moment in the last year or so where you thought maybe I made a mistake in this vote? I think the turning point was when the heart cracked down on immigration came in, the way they treated our minorities are people of color that are immigrant. I believe a lot of us are for removing immigrants that are illegal immigrants that are violent criminals, you know, drugs. dealers and but the way they're removing these people are just based off color and the racial profiling. I think that's where where I said it was enough. Your parents are from Mexico. Is that right? That's correct. Yeah. We met a lot of Latino voters like yourself down in Arizona just in the weeks before the election. They like yourself swung to Trump in 2024 and they helped put him in

the White House because of his approach to immigration. What did you want him to do when it came to immigration? Strengthen our borders, crack down on the companies that actually hire illegal immigration, because they exploit these people, give them low wages, no breaks, excessive amount of hours, and, you know, just secure the border and then reduce the amount of drug flow coming in and actually firearms going into Mexico support, giving weapons to these, cartels in Mexico as well. And so it's, it, you wanted the border tightened up, but it's the way that he has gone about this that,

that has turned you off. Correct. I mean, you know, you, you've got ice officials at gas stations, you know, just randomly picking people that are darker colored and look Hispanic and asking for their legal status. And it's just, it's terrible. He did say in the lead up to the vote that he was going to have the, the largest immigration cracked out and deportation effort, in the history of the United States.

Did that give you a sense as to what he might do? I knew it was going to be a large-scale deportation force, but I was not, I didn't think it was going to be no due process, and let's just round them up and stick them in warehouses, and then we'll figure out later if they're actually legal or citizens. And if they're not, let's get them out, get them on a plane and get them out of here and avoid the due process because they believe that they're not entitled to due process. I'm going to let you go, but let me just ask you quickly.

What are the conversations that you're having with friends and family about this? I mean, people know who you voted for, and now everyone's trying to figure out what's going to happen come the midterms. What are those conversations like? I tell people, look at the facts, look at the data. The data shows opposite. I mean, yesterday during the State of the Union, he said, oh, gas prices are lowest, even $1.90, which is in Iowa, which is not true. The average is about $2.30.

He said he was going to finish end the war in Ukraine in day one, and we're still here with a war in Ukraine in Russia. I said, just fact check and trust the data. That's what I try to tell everybody. What are you going to do in the fall when it comes to the midterms? Will you vote Republican or stay home or Democrat or how are you thinking? I'm definitely going to vote. I want to vote for the right candidate. this. I just hope that Democrats come with good agenda, good policies, instead of just, let's just get Trump out of here. I want to hear some good policy in place. You want to vote for something rather than against something. Correct. Yeah. I hope we have the chance to talk again as the midterms get closer.

In the meantime, I'm really glad to have you on the program this morning. Pablo, thanks so much. Oh, I appreciate it. It's an honor. Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye. Pablo Payan is a general contractor in Merrillville, Indiana, who, voted for Donald Trump in 24 and as you heard now has some regrets about that. John Palema runs his own

masonry company in Bolton, the town in central Massachusetts. He also voted for President Trump in the last three elections. John, good morning to you. Good morning. Why did you vote for Donald Trump? Well, I voted for him

because he was always the lesser of two evils. I don't have a lot of compassion for the man as a, you know, I don't think he's the greatest politician, but I wasn't given me great options. That doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. What were you hoping he would do? In the last election, when you voted for him in 2024, what were you hoping he would do? Well, I was hoping he was going to do the things he said he was going to do. On top of my mind was immigration shutting down the border. It's been an issue for me in my whole life, being a Mason. I've been dealing with illegal immigration

for 30 years. So that, I was hoping we can get out of some of these foreign wars and some of this sending money overseas and focusing more on the country. And so particularly with immigration, you mentioned as a Mason, that's a top issue for you. Why is that a burning issue for you in the contracting world? Well, there's a lot of the jobs, labor-intensive jobs,

have been taken over by illegal immigrants over the course of the last 30, 40 years, so much so that American workers have not been able to get jobs that pay a living wage. In the past, you could work as a labor and work your way up and make a living for yourself, but you can't even get into these jobs now because the starting rate is so low because of illegal immigration. Because they're willing to be they're willing to pay the companies are willing to pay people less who who are undocumented than than other folks. Less and they are less they're more affordable to employ. That's a huge part of it. Pay them less is only half of it. But the ability to have to pay to employ them less money than an American worker is the other.

And so how do you think he is done when it comes to the immigration issue? Well, the immigration issue, he shut down the border immediately, which is, was something that really affected me because no other president really has done that. And he did it so quickly. So he didn't, you know, he just used existing laws. So it was really disheartening to see that. And, you know, I didn't know where my other politicians, you know, stood on that. Obviously, they let the borders open all these years, and it only has affected the lower-class citizens with the least amount of earners in this country. That's it bothered me. What do you make of how he—

So when he shut the border down. Yeah, what do you make of how he has gone about this? I mean, one of the things we heard from Pablo is that he also wanted an immigration crackdown, but he's alarmed by the fact that you have people being snatched off the streets, shot on the streets. You have U.S. citizens who are being detained and communities that are kind of living in fear of what's going on. How do you feel about how he has gone about that? Well, that aspect is a lot different than how previous presidents that have succeeded in the deportation have gone. And the major thing is cooperation between the state and local government and federal officials.

In the states, you see these issues. That cooperation doesn't exist anymore. It did exist when Obama deported three million plus illegal immigrants. there are certain laws because these states are now sanctuary states that they are ignoring that they were implemented at the federal level by Democrats, laws that allowed the state and federal governments to help out federal ICE agents and deporting people. Those laws are being ignored. So the reasons why the way the ICE is going about detaining people and deporting

people is because they're not getting cooperation from the people they need it most from, state and local government. So you think in some ways what's happening right now is a necessary outcome of that lack of cooperation, that that's just, that's what's going to happen if various levels of government aren't working together? Right. We have to think of what we're actually doing here. We're trying to remove people who do not want to be found and they do not want to be taken

away back to their homes. So that in and of itself is the job. And just think of how difficult that is when you don't have state, local police officers helping, locating these people, telling them where they are, you know, reporting them when they're getting arrested. So it makes the job very difficult. Would he get, would he get your vote again? Is he, are you supportive? I mean, when it comes to the midterms, are you supportive of where the Republicans are at right now? Well, again, my options are I vote Democrat.

Now, we've seen what voting Democrat did in terms of immigration. It had a negative effect, a very, very negative effect. So if in terms of immigration, I would vote for anyone that's still strong on deportation and solving this illegal immigrant problem because it's still a problem. I just have a few seconds left. But what about the economy? Do you feel the question people always ask is, are you better off now than you were then?

Do you feel better off now? Honestly, I don't feel, I don't feel, I wasn't feeling great under Biden. I don't feel great under him. I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't know if voting the other way is going to make it, make it change. That's it. I don't think the economy is going to change if I vote the other way. It's an honest answer.

some ways and personal as well. I do, as I said, with Pablo, I hope we have the chance to talk again before the midterms roll up. In the meantime, John, thanks to you for joining us. No problem, Matt. Thank you. John Palema runs his own masonry company in Bolton, Massachusetts. He voted for Donald Trump, as you heard, three times, including in 2024. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.