The Current - This retired auto worker is pinning his hopes on Trump

Episode Date: October 24, 2024

Michigan has been called the state that put the world on wheels, but after weathering decades of decline the state’s auto industry is now reckoning with the transition to electric vehicles. We hear why one retired auto worker is backing Donald Trump, despite what he said about Detroit.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. We're at the Empire Grill, across the road from the Ford plant. This is where autoworkers come after their shift. Everybody's kind of sitting down right now on their hands, waiting for what's going to happen. I've been in this business for 35 years, and I'll tell you that this is the slowest I've seen at pre-election. Kids like my son's age and my daughter's age, right, in their mid to late 20s,

they can't afford a home right now. They can't afford a first-time buyer. Scary times. I worry more about my grandchildren, future grandchildren, than I do quite honestly about myself. It's a big concern. I know a lot of people that have left the state of Michigan just out of concern to go do something else.

People of any common sense would understand that this country is not ready for electrical vehicles right now. We don't have the infrastructure to do it. It's being forced upon people and a state that's so auto-heavy. this, of course, is a real big concern. My girlfriend is a liberal Democrat. No one thought we ever would have dated, but here we are. We've been dating a year and a half, and what we try to do is not talk about politics too much. Brian Panbecker is also here. Hey, how are you?

I'm back on the way. Nice to meet you. How are you? We just clocked your truck. He's the founder of Auto Workers for Trump. You can't miss him. His car is covered in Trump stickers, and he's wearing sneakers with the stars and stripes on them.

How's everything? You good? Oh, yeah. Talking to people nonstop. So much of this area is tied to the auto industry. I mean, not just the plants that are across the road. The restaurant we're sitting in is tied to the auto industry. So how would you describe how it's changed over time? They've closed more and more plants. There's fewer and fewer jobs. We had 1.5 million,

I believe, UAW members back in the mid-70s. I think they're down to several hundred thousand now. I mean, it's like a third of the size it was. That's because our jobs have been getting shipped to Mexico. What is, I mean, you're wearing a shirt for Auto Workers for Trump. What is that? That's my group that I started early in 2017, right after Donald Trump was elected president. I was aware of the fact that there were a lot of people in my plant that supported Donald Trump. Word started spreading. All of a sudden we had eight or 900 people, then a thousand, then 1500. So what is his pitch to the autoworkers?

What do you think Donald Trump can do for an industry that, as you said, is shrinking but means so much to this community? Well, he's got a record of what he can do. If he gets back in, he'll get oil prices and gas prices back down. One of the most important things will be he will not allow the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, to keep ramping up these emissions and mileage standards that are de facto mandates on the auto industry to build electric vehicles. Do you think that the auto industry has to electrify? I mean, one of the reasons why people say that electric is the future, and it's not just folks on the left. Elon Musk has talked about this. I mean, the guy who made Tesla is that if you continue to pump out CO2 emissions from gas burning cars forever, we'll boil. Do you think that we have to, that electrification has to be something we broadly have to get to in future?

Maybe so. We're not, you know the guys that that i feel like i'm speaking on behalf of are not against electric vehicles matter of fact i would buy a hybrid um if if you know the technology was out here that i could charge it when i'm out on the road or if i go up north with it electric vehicles don't have much range but the full electrification wouldn't work for you not right now no i mean, how many charging stations did you notice on your way over here today? Probably zero. Fully electric vehicles are super expensive. Only the elites, the people on the coast can afford them. Can I go back to the Trump thing? One of the things that's interesting about this, I mean, the autoworkers for Trump,

is that the union that represents autoworkers, the UAW, has endorsed Kamala Harris. The leader has. The leader. The $800,000 a year socialist leader, Sean Fain does. The guy who represents those workers ostensibly. He claims to represent us. So you don't think that the guy who is the head of that union that ostensibly represents the workers actually does represent the feelings of the workers? I know he doesn't. I'm doing a rally out in front of a different plant every week. I've been doing it since Memorial Day. So when they stop and roll their window down, they're giving us, they're tooting their horn, they're giving us thumbs up, fist pumps, you know, we got to get Trump back in there. So I'm talking to these people and I'll ask them,

how's the support in there this election cycle? Because I know what it was in 16 and 20. I was still working in there. And they're telling me now it's 65% to 70% is the number I keep hearing. After Trump got elected and I started Auto Workers for Trump, I had a sense that the support for him, it was always 40% were voting Republican UAW guys. It's just a demographic reality, right? Nobody really pays attention to the union leadership's endorsements.

It's kind of a running joke. That was in 2020. Now he's running against a woman who wants to ban the internal combustion engine. Although she says that that's nonsense. Yeah, yeah, she'll say it. No, but she said that she's not going to tell anybody. She said she's a liar.

And everything she says now, she's just saying for political expediency and trying to get elected. Why do you believe Donald Trump? As somebody who has, he's told more than his fair share of lies as well. Yeah, he embellishes, he exaggerates. But here's why I believe him on the issues that matter to me. When he got into office, he did what he said he was going to do. He tore up NAFTA. He canceled the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, which we hadn't signed yet, but we're in negotiations. He said that'll be another NAFTA, but of the Pacific Rim countries. When it comes to his political policy positions, he walks the walk. Are you bothered by, he was in Detroit recently and he ran Detroit

down, talked about how the rest of the country, he didn't want it to become like Detroit. That quote was taken out of context because the media loves to attack Donald Trump. If you read that whole article, which I did, I heard the whole speech, he's talking about the high crime level. We've been known as, on and off over the years, murder capital of America. Living in a perimeter of a city like that is not fun. Let me just end with more on the EVs. We're going to go and speak with somebody who's involved in the electrification project

and how the future of Michigan, in many ways, they believe is electrification. You have companies in China that are some of the biggest automakers in the world. They're a communist country. But they're creating cars that people around the world are buying. Do you worry that in drawing a line against full electrification that those Chinese car companies are going to come and eat your lunch? That the businesses and the scale of that industry that you've already seen shrinking will continue to shrink because other people will be ahead of you?

So what I'm against is the government, like they do in socialist countries, telling private industry like Chrysler, Stellantis just tried to do, they said, well, we'll give you $500 million in tax credits if you build this type of vehicle. Well, the consumers here in America have already told the producers, the manufacturers, we don't want fully electric vehicles. Why are you guys skipping over hybrids? So the government's trying to dictate to private industry what type of product they should build, and they're bribing them to do it with tax credits.

Those tax credits come out of my paycheck. They're taking my money, bribing a wealthy private business like Stellantis, who happens to be foreign-owned, and giving them my money and telling them to build a product that the consumers have already said we don't want. Are you optimistic about the future of the industry? Yeah, I'm very optimistic if the government keeps their nose out of it. I'm really glad to talk to you. Thanks for the coffee. Thanks for coming here. Yeah, you're very welcome. Back downtown, there is a different story being told. The revitalization of the city is being fueled in part by that transition happening in the auto industry. So says Karolina Pluszynski.

She's chief operating officer of Michigan Central, Detroit's historic train station turned into an innovation hub. We took station looms large in this city, a symbol of its rise and fall. Once the gateway to Detroit, it was closed down in 1988 and fell into disrepair. Windows were broken, roof was open. There were five Olympic-sized pools of water in the basement that had to be pulled out.

It took about a year for the building to dry. No heat, no air, graffiti everywhere. The decay is part of the story. So we've tried to maintain some of that, but it looked very, very different than it does today. It's amazing. We are standing in the grand hall of the former train station, and it is astonishing.

The original pink marble floors have been restored. Every tile on the 65 foot vaulted ceiling taken out and cleaned, and our voices echo in this enormous space. So at its peak, what did this building mean to the city? The building opened in 1913 and last train went out in 88. I think in its height, I think it was about the migration to Detroit and people came here through the train station. When we opened in June over the summer, we had about 170,000 people come visit. And the stories that people told you, I mean, there were tears. They remembered some of the benches. They remember

being here when their dad left for war or they moved here as a kid. My mom came through as a little girl when she came from New York. She was from Italy. And so you know that feeling. I mean, this is a city that has a ton of pride in itself and the people, I mean, you just walk around and you see people, the Detroit versus everybody shirts. But the city's been through, like it's been through really tough times and it's seen a lot. What do you think the decline of this building said about the city? It didn't happen overnight. I think, you know, you just get used to that environment. But I think folks are so appreciative of what's happening here, opening this building up, but really about, you know, the jobs, the talent,

the training that we're doing for people. And we're giving this building back and this campus back to the community and they feel it and they have a voice in it. What does it say then about the city now when something like this can, it's not rising from the ashes, but in some ways it is. Do you know what I mean? Like the husk was there and then you're putting the windows back in and kind of bringing new life into it. What does it say about where the city is now? I think, you know, I think Detroit's a fighter. We have been a fighter for a long time and I think it's us fighting to not cede the future of mobility, transportation to anybody else. What does that mean, not cede the future of mobility and transportation to anybody else? Talents leaving, engineering talents leaving, and they're going to the West Coast or they're going to Austin, Texas.

And so we need to make sure that we have the programming here to keep the talent here. We have to make sure that we're bringing the companies here to Detroit and they're not going to anywhere else. And that's the work that we're doing. We have companies that are coming from Belgium, that are coming from South Korea, making this their U.S. headquarters. We have people who have an idea and want to start a business, and we're matching them up with people like New Lab to help them get started. with people like New Lab to help them get started. And so that innovation is really what's starting to see the vibrancy and starting to pull the market back to Detroit and pulling the talent here. What does that specifically mean for the automotive sector?

Ford Motor Company underpinned this entire investment, and it was a billion-dollar investment. And he did it with the vision of the future of innovation. It's not about one single company closing their doors, inventing something, and then 18 months later, ta-da, we have a new product. It's really about collaboration. And that was the premise around Michigan Central. It was about creating a place and space where you can bring inventors,

startups, corporates working side by side to actually get to commercial solutions faster. Is the future of that industry electric, do you think? I think it has to be clean energy. How do you manage the different political narratives around this? Everybody has an opinion. I think we're all, we are just heads down doing the work, regardless of anything around this.

We're going to be here tomorrow and we're going to keep doing this important work. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

When Ford invested a billion dollars into the Michigan Central project, it wanted to create a whole campus. So next door, a building that was once used as a book repository for the Detroit School Board became a home to Michigan's Mobility and Electrification Office. How are you? Hi, nice to meet you. Good. Justine Johnson heads up that department,

and she's running from one corner of the state to the other, pitching the electrification of the auto sector. It sounds like an obvious question, but how important is mobility and how we get around to the identity of the state? We are the state that put the world on wheels. And most people know if we did not have a conversation about Michigan, we would not have been introduced to the advent or wide distribution of the automobile. And so that is such an important part of our history and our heritage and DNA. And so manufacturing is a big

part of this. But again, this is really focusing on how we are going to be moving, but also how we're going to influence the rest of the world. How would you characterize the state of mobility now when it comes to how we'll get around in future? I mean, part of this is about where we'll go, but also how those vehicles will move and how those vehicles will be fueled, for example. Yeah. So I think one of the amazing things right now, and if you all haven't had a chance, just outside this building is the first wireless charging roadway in the United States. And I think that's an important part of how we're thinking about the future of our infrastructure. There's a road that, I mean, you drive along and it charges the vehicle.

You have to have a receiver underneath the vehicle, but yes, essentially it would maintain and charge the vehicle while it is operating. Do you think the future of how we get around is electric? I think it's clean energy. I think it's... So there's a difference between what I said and clean energy, right? I think clean energy is encompassing of electrification. So that's a part of it. Hydrogen is another important conversation that we're having, and that's happening across the United States, if not world. So there are other alternative energy and renewable sources that are available.

When I pulled into the parking lot here, most of the cars are internal combustion engine cars. There is a long tradition and history of building those cars here in and around Detroit. What does that mean for that? I think it's about, I think education is a big part of this, right? And so I think educating consumers about electric vehicles, I think I am someone, I do drive an electric vehicle. And I can tell you every single time I take my car out, I feel like I'm like a living classroom where people will ask me like, oh, when the weather falls, how far can you get on your range? Can you drive to Chicago? Can you drive to Canada? I think we are being very intentional about the charging infrastructure in the state of Michigan.

And we have very aggressive goals around charging infrastructure. What about the people who build those cars, who have great anxiety? And this is, I mean, the subject of political arguments from every different side, it seems like they have great anxiety, and this is the subject of political arguments from every different side, it seems like. They have great anxiety that the careers that they have had for generations could be evaporating because you need fewer workers to build those cars. They worry whether the region here will be competitive given the nature of that industry around the world. What do you say to the workers who have that pit in their stomach when they hear that the future is something that includes electrification?

Yeah, I mean, I think something that I always try to put into context here, right, is that we hear often that there is concerns, right, about what electrification may be in terms of how that impacts the workforce. Not only the jobs of making sure that the people who are working right now are re-skilled and re-tooled so that they can be able to build the vehicles of the future. Do you understand the anxiety that people have? I think, yes, I do understand that people are concerned. And I think with any major shift that happens, we went from, I guess, early days, you think about an agricultural and food society, we transitioned into an industrial society, and now we're into an intelligent society.

We have made shifts. We're approaching this by not leaving people behind. What do you make of the fact that this has become a political football? It's, you know, I try to stay out of the politics as much as possible, because, you know, I know, right? And I say that because, you know, my, the important part of the work that I do is looking at innovation in a very different way and how we're moving people and how we're thinking about our air quality and really addressing big challenges around climate change. And this is about, I think, a quality of life decision that we have to start making to make sure that, you know, people have access to cleaner air. And yet there are two very pointed competing narratives on how to deal with that.

I mean, you're saying you come in from the airport and there are signs saying you're going to lose your job because of an EV mandate that may or may not exist or jobs have been created because of electric vehicles. I just wonder, what do you do with that? Whoever wins is going to have a different approach to how to deal with this. And that will have an impact on the work that you're doing in this state. Yeah. I mean, I'd say this, you know, we are very focused on our goals, which are carbon neutrality by 2050. What does that mean? Just finally, I mean, one of the reasons why it's really interesting for us from Canada to watch what's happening down

here when it comes to the auto sector is because we have an auto sector as well. And there are very close links between the two. And the belief is, you know, you cough and we'll feel it, you know, we'll hear that. So what does the future of that sector look like, do you think, in this region? You know, I think this is, we're at a very interesting time, right? And so I say that because we're thinking about so many different transitions that are happening. And I think for our neighbors, literally across the water. And we think about that in terms of how vehicles are being made. So the types of vehicles that are being made, the infrastructure that's supporting that.

We think about the resources that are needed to support this industry is going to be really important. to support this industry is going to be really important. But we also think about the amount of, in our relationship with our international border, the amount of goods that go back and forth every single day. Are you really able to put the politics of this out of your mind? We're like a week and a half away from this election that the whole world is paying attention to. Are you really able? You're not able to park that. Look, I tell you this. You know, I am someone who, yes, we all see the news, right? We all have our phones. I'm sure we're getting alerts as we speak in this moment. We can choose to, you know, follow headlines all day long, or we can choose to make sure that we're intentional about the work that we're doing. We can choose to partner in ways that

we haven't partnered before. We can choose to be different. And so while the headlines are going on every side of the news cycle, depending on who you follow, you'll see polls leaning one way or another. At this point, it's a lot of noise and we have to get to the bigger, broader goals at the end of the day. So that's how I choose to see things.