The Current - Trying to make sense of the tragedy in Tumbler Ridge

Episode Date: February 12, 2026

More details are emerging about the mass shooting in B.C. that left nine people dead. We get an update on the shooter. And a town resident describes the pain people in Tumbler Ridge are feeling and the kindness and patience they need, in the absence of answers. Plus, we hear from two people who offer trauma care in the wake of school shootings, to help us all begin to process this unthinkable tragedy

This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always overdelivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights. And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarbro.cairbo.ca.

This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. People gathered in Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia last night for a vigil. Just two days ago, their town changed forever. After the community event, Mayor Daryl Krakowka spoke to media, thanking politicians from across the province and country who had flown in to help his community. You know, you can't thank the government enough on a quick action to get counselors on the ground with working with their east.

It is so important when we see a tragedy like this. With yelling, like his lost, families, don't have their children coming home last thing. After one of the worst school shootings ever in our country, there are still many questions to answer. But authorities did share some new information yesterday. CBC reporter Brian Labby is in Tumblr Ridge. Brian, hello. Good morning, Pia. Let's begin with that vigil.

I know media was not allowed to come or asked not to come. but what, you know, took place last night? How are people coming together? Yeah, yeah. And we were actually given permission just to take a few still photos from a distance. And, of course, some people who attended the vigil are releasing their own videos.

And it was a really big turnout. Several hundred people were there. They stood closely together. Some of them holding candles. It was a very emotional evening. The mayor was there, as you mentioned, also the Premier of BC, along with the federal and provincial public safety ministers.

And according to the Premier, who spoke after the event, They talked about the six people who were killed at Tumblr Ridge Secondary School and also the people who are still fighting for their lives. So we heard the clip there about talking about the need for support and the support that has come in. What kind of support has arrived in the community thus far? Yeah, so right now I'm standing near the community center, which is one of the main hubs for this town of 2,500. Now, grief counselors have been dispatched to the town, and there's been a steady flow of people who are coming into the community center, who are looking for someone to talk to, a shoulder to cry on. Now, from a distance, we've seen people go into the center.

We know that there's a bit of a weight for people to see a counselor, but the key point here is that some people feel like they really need that support, and some of them are seeking it out. I spoke with a grandfather of two 14-year-olds who attend the school. His grandkids were not hurt, but he says he's going to be seeking mental health counseling on his own in the days of head. So he was extremely emotional and just really, you know, just looking, for answers and seeking help to try and get through this.

Some of those answers, Brian, are hopeful for people to come from the RCMP. We got a bit of information from them yesterday, their first fulsome press conference. So we learned that most of the victims were so very, very young, 12 and 13 years old. What more can you tell us about them? Yeah, it was an absolute gut punch when you just hear about the ages of the victims. They were in grade 7, three 12-year-old girls and two boys' age. 12 and 13. Now, one of them was shot in a stairwell, the others in the school library. A 39-year-old woman who worked at the school as a teacher's assistant was also shot and killed on Tuesday afternoon.

We know a number of people were injured. We also know that people were wounded. So what do you know about those who were wounded? Yeah, so we know that two people were airlifted in serious, life-threatening condition to hospital outside of the community, including a 12-year-old girl, Maya and a 19-year-old female. Maya is said to be fighting for her life. About two dozen other people were treated for their injuries. So lots of people thinking about those who were injured in this tragedy as well. The police continued to do their investigation,

but what details did RCMP begin to feel in about what unfolded at that school letter this week? Yeah, and definitely a really chilling account of just getting some of these snippets of the details. And, you know, a public shelter in place alert was issued on Tuesday afternoon with police warning of an active shooter situation. The suspect at the time was described as, you know, someone in a dress with brown hair. Police received reports of shots being fired at the school. They say that they arrived at the scene within a couple of minutes and they heard gunshots ringing out. About 100 people were inside the school at the time and they barricaded themselves in classrooms for more than two hours until the threat was determined to be over. police found the dead and wounded inside the school along with the body of the shooter,

who was believed to have died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. And police also said, Brian, that this began in the alleged shooter's home. What happened there? Yeah, that's right. So the shooter's family home is just a short distance from the school about two kilometers away. The bodies of her 39-year-old mother, Jennifer String, and an 11-year-old stepbrother were found inside a neighbor who entered the home. said there were spent rounds on the stairs leading into the house.

They named the suspect, Jesse Van Routselaer, an 18-year-old. What did they say about the alleged shooter? Yeah, RCMP say that Van Routseller was assigned male at birth, but began transitioning to female about six years ago. She's a former student at the school, but had dropped out roughly four years ago. And do we know about police's interactions with this family, this home before? Yeah, we're starting to get just a few more details around that. The RCMP's Deputy Commissioner, Dwayne McDonald, said that police had visited Van Routselaer's home for mental health-related calls in recent years,

and that some of the calls were related to weapons. The RCMP say there was an instance when the suspect was apprehended under the Mental Health Act and taken to hospital for assessment. Now, according to the RCMP, Van Rood-Seller had a firearms license, which expired in 2024. they say firearms had been seized two years ago from the family home under the criminal code, but the lawful owner of the weapons had petitioned for their return. And, you know, this is something that the Premier BC was asked about after last night's vigil. He says he has many questions around the number of times police were called to the home and whether enough was done to prevent what unfolded here on Tuesday.

He hopes that, you know, the RCMP will be able to provide some of the answers to those questions, if not all of them. And then he's also talking about some possible moves that has been. government may make to get those answers on their own. And Brian, do we know about the kinds of weapons that they believe were used in this shooting? Yeah, so police said they recovered two firearms at the school, a long gun and a modified handgun, is how they described it. Neither weapon was registered to Van Rood Seller. Brian, I know you've only been on the ground for about a day, and this is an extraordinarily

difficult situation for everyone there and to cover. But in the short time that you've been to this very close-knit community, a town of about 2,500. How are they, I don't know, just coping, holding up? I was really struck. We spent some time outside the only grocery store in town, and it was just everyone seems to be, seemingly, they seem to be strangers, right? But that is not the case. People were coming and going into the grocery store,

buying more flowers than groceries for sure, and then people outside just hugging each other and holding these long embraces and just some people sobbing. And it was really an emotional scene and just to see the strength of the community. The mayor has described people here as family members, not just residents. So that was just a glimpse into the community

and I was really struck by just how strong everyone seems and how they're really coming together to try and support each other. What kind of answers are people in Tumblr Ridge looking for? Well, you can imagine, right? The big one is why. They just don't understand why such a violent attack occurred against young school children.

And they also want to know more about the shooter's history with police. and whether there were any gaps in the way, you know, police responded to those calls for service in the past. Brian, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much. And please take good care of yourself. Thanks, Pia. CBC reporter, Brian Labby, is in Tumblr Ridge, British Columbia. Nobody is very far removed from any of this directly. And so certainly shock, sadness, grief, all of those emotions that you would expect. but everybody really is rallying around each other.

It's going to be incredibly challenging, and it's going to take everybody standing together to support each other and get through, and Lakeby is committed to doing that. That was Marlana Bluin, who is the co-chief executive officer of Lakeview Credit Union. She was at their branch in Tumblr Ridge yesterday. So we, as a credit union, have reached out.

We're working in coordination with the Tumblr Ridge Parent Advisory Council to set up an account to accept donations on behalf of the families that have been impacted. And we want to make sure that there is a legitimate, safe place for people to make donations, to a trusted institution. And we will work with the PAC to make sure that those donations go to the families and the people that need them. Marlana says that since the account was opened, there has been a steady stream of donations and a lot of support from the community. Jerry Lynn Kirk is with the Tumblr Ridge Chamber of Commerce.

I believe that things will get better, and I believe that it'll take a lot of time for healing. But I believe that Tumblr Ridge will come back stronger and better, and we will miss those who are gone from us, but I think that Tumblr Ridge will come back stronger because of this. And I have to believe that because if you don't have that hope, it just would be overwhelming. This tragedy has impacted every single person who lives in Tumblr Ridge. Manda Mags has lived there for the past six years. She is the executive director of the Tumblr Ridge UNESCO Global Geo Park.

Amanda, hello. Hello. First off, just how are you doing? Under the circumstances, I think I'm coping. I'm coping. It's really hard to put into words sort of, of how, everyone is feeling. Everyone I talk to and ask that question to is feeling much the same way. Disbelieve, shock, sadness, yeah, a lot of that.

And as you say, everyone you've been talking to, tell me about your community and what you're seeing when you see other people? I went into my office. We're working with the district to set up a grief support person. they needed to use our building. So I went in for a bit, and I did see some folks from around town that I know through various boards that I've worked on, businesses, you know, I'm sure you've heard this a million times,

which is really a small community, so it's very hard to go anywhere without, you know, being recognized and having a conversation. So just checking in with people, it's been, there's just a deep sadness that you kind of feel over the whole town. The businesses are really already doing what they can to help in individuals, setting up coffee and treats by donation, just trying to connect with their community and make them feel supported and loved

and just trying to do something, which is really hard to do in a situation like this. Yeah, I bet. As you say, everyone knows everyone, the victims of this killing. According to the RCMP was a teacher who was killed at the school, five young people also died at that school, four 12 year olds, a 13 year old, they were so young. Yeah.

How are you all just processing that? I'm pretty sure a lot of us aren't yet. I know I can only really speak for myself in this case, but I know that it hasn't quite hit me fully yet. And I really, right now, can only think of the piece. that are more closely related to these people, as in their friends, their nephews, their nieces, you know, I'm really feeling for the victims and their families. This is not going to be something that is easy to deal with, and I can't imagine what they're feeling at this point in time. people across our country around the world are reacting to this tragedy and sending sympathy, compassion, feeling sad.

Are there words that are giving you comfort right now? Where are you, what are you leaning on? Like I have a lovely support network of great friends and family who have been very good at keeping in touch and touching base with me. some of us are okay, some of us are not okay, some of us we didn't know for a long time how it was all playing out and yeah, it's been a rough 24 hours. Yeah. I understand you saw a post by British Columbia poet Shane Coison. And the first line of the poem was, is grief in a small town has no.

corners to hide in. Yeah. It just struck me as a really astute observation because that that is exactly how it feels. Like our town, I know it's such a cliche, it's very close-knit. We're all very connected here, but it's true. It is very true. It is more true for this community, and I've lived in small towns most of my life. This is a closer community than most.

And, yeah, it feels like being exposed in a really strange way. And the other thing that I think people are feeling now, at least the folks that I have talked to friends that live here, is that the sentiment I keep hearing is that this incident shouldn't define us. This isn't what happens here. This is not who we are. Tumblr Ridge is a very, it sounds strange to say, given what's just happened, but it's a very safe community. Like, physically, spiritually, you know, it's a wonderful place to have a vast array of outdoor hobbies.

Like, it's a great place to live. Otherwise, this event didn't mash with our idea of who we are as a community. Obviously, there's a lot to deal with there, but the fact that it happened. happened here in Tumblr Ridge is so unexpected. It's honestly unbelievable. And people are still dealing with just that, trying to bring it into their reality because this is absolutely not the way Tumblr Ridge is structured, you know, in its bones. So it's, yeah, hard to reconcile, I guess. One of the more complicating factors is that the alleged shooter is of your community and I know you're all waiting and for a lot of answers but can you talk to me about

that part of it? I honestly don't know how to feel about that. I haven't really thought about the shooter particularly much. I think most of us here in Tumblr Ridge are focused on the victims in their families. That is where the focus should be at this point in time. There are, as I said, There are many things we don't know here, there are many answers to come. And that waiting, I imagine, is hard, too, for you and your community. I mean, it is. I, you know, have definitely, I think, stalled out on the grieving process in a little bit when I think about how this is all feeling for me,

because I don't know the details, because I don't know exactly who has been taken from our community. However, that being said, I think it's really important that things don't always go at the speed of social media with speculation and wild rumors. And I think out of respect for the victims and their families, that it's really, really important that we take the time and make sure to get the information right before anything is released. I fully understand why the RCMP are being very careful about releasing details because they need to be accountable for the information that goes out there. It's way harder to correct misinformation. That's the big thing that I think people just need to be a little bit more patient with. I can see the RCMP doing their best so I know that information will come out when it's a problem. I think you told one of our colleagues that there's already enough here to mourn that you don't need to add to people's grief with speculation or vitriol.

Yeah, and it does. I know that I've been upset by some of the comments that I have seen online, and there's really no need for that at this point in time. I know people will fill in the gaps when there isn't information to be had at the ready, but that's not helping. Anybody. Yeah, I think people just really need to take a step back. I know elsewhere that this doesn't probably feel as real. You know, people will feel a little bit separated from it. But here in Tumblr Ridge, it feels very close and very personal. And we're reading these comments too. So, you know, just out of respect for the people in the community who are still processing, yeah, I just hope that people will just be a little bit more clear and kind. and patient with the real information coming out and not be so quick to put their own spin on things. That's a very good reminder.

Amanda, we all just want to wrap arms around you across this country for you and all the people in Tumblr Ridge and we're really feeling for you. And you didn't have to make time for us. And I really appreciate that you have. And thank you and take good care of yourself. Thank you very much. Amanda Meggs is the executive director

of the Tumblr Ridge, UNESCO, Glover. global geopark. This ascent isn't for everyone. You need grit to climb this high this often. You've got to be an underdog that always overdelivers. You've got to be 6,500 hospital staff, 1,000 doctors, all doing so much with so little. You've got to be Scarborough. Defined by our uphill battle and always striving towards new heights.

And you can help us keep climbing. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. Viking. Committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on a Viking longship with thoughtful service and cultural enrichment, on board and on shore. Learn more at viking.com. There are few people who will understand

what the community of Tumblr Ridge, BC, is going through, quite like Robert St. Pierre. A decade ago, he helped lead his small community which is about the same size as Tumblr Ridge through the aftermath of a similar tragedy. Four people died and seven others were injured, including Robert's niece in a shooting at the high school in La Lash in northwestern Saskatchewan.

Robert St. Pierre is a former mayor of La Lash. Robert, good morning. Good morning. I know it is still very early hours and days in Tumblr Ridge, but how are you thinking about what's happened and what's happening there? Well, I just feel for the community because we underwent a similar situation 10 years ago, like you identified,

and I really feel for that community and what they have to go through. Tell me what those early days are like or were like for you and La Lash. Well, it was filled with a lot of questions and a lot of trying to figure out what transpired, how it happened, how it laid out, and a lot of unidentified questions, right? Like, there's nobody to answer

when you're just trying to figure out it's sort through the tragedy how many people impact the death right we have death and we have people injured and the chaos that comes with it and it was a real trying time

and as the mayor you're wearing multiple hats you're communicating with other leaders and with community members while trying to uphold and embrace your own community your friends, your family.

Tell me about wearing those multiple hats. Well, at the moment, you're not thinking about hats. You're not thinking about roles. You're thinking about that now. What can I do? How can I be of help at this time? And that's really what you focus on. And for me personally, it was my family at the time

because my niece was one of the victims, shooting victims. And so we're preoccupied with ensuring that her health and her safety was attended to at the, you know, University Hospital here in Saskatoon. So we were focused on that. We weren't focused on the community at the time because we were focused with what we're dealing with in our family. I'm sorry for that.

That must have been just such a trying time for you. Oh, at the time, when I reflect back, yes, it was a trying time because we did lose my niece a couple times, but they brought her back to life. So it was really hard because in one moment you're like, oh, my God, we lost her. And then, oh, she still was. us. So it was really up and down. So. People across our country are feeling what's happened in Tumblr Ridge, but perhaps not as acutely, as you were just saying, as you or people in La Losh. How is what happened in Tumblr Ridge being felt in Lelosh?

It brings back a lot of memories and a lot of emotions because we just celebrated the 10th anniversary just a couple weeks ago and then this happened. So it resurfaced. a lot of those anxieties, a lot of those unknowns and those feelings that are associated with it because it just comes back to you. It floods back to you like it did with me, I'm pretty sure. The Losh is a small community, as is Tumblr Ridge. And there's a lot of talking about what it's like for a tragedy like this to take place in a smaller community where everybody knows everyone, where everyone is friends with others and feel like family. what's it like for a small community to go through this kind of tragedy?

Well, once again, you're dealing with people that know each other. You're dealing with the victims. You're dealing with a person that may have done harm, and we all know each other. And so it was a real challenge to find your balance. And the end of the day, we have to rely on each other to get through this ordeal, to get through what has occurred and deal with it. And it's not an easy thing to go through. And there will be felt for years to come.

And we're still feeling it today. And once again, it resurfaced today. So, you know, you never truly get over it. What does a community need in the days and weeks ahead from the rest of us, from the country? What kind of supports did you feel really helped? Well, I think the fact that we come together in crisis, unfortunately, it takes a crisis for us to come together. I think our communities, our small communities throughout the country need to start relying on each other a little more and supportive of each other in so many aspects of our lives, our daily lives, right? We shouldn't have to wait for a tragedy to bring us together.

You mentioned your niece was injured in the shooting in La Lash 10 years ago. How is she doing now, 10 years on? Well, you know, she's still on her healing journey. You know, we have our struggles. We have our ups and downs. And it's had an impact and continues to have an impact today. And she's dealing with and coping the best that she can with the resources and what she has today. So it's always going to be a struggle and it's always going to be something that's on the back from my,

when she hears a loud noise or something in the background, somebody drops a dish or something. it comes back and it's a trigger. I'm sure what's happened in Tumblr Ridge is very, very hard on her, as you say. It has changed her life fundamentally. Yes. You mentioned that your community marked 10 years since the shooting in La Lash. How did your community come together to remember that day and the path that you've all been on in the past decade?

Well, for starters, the school made the arrangements at their community school, Denny High School. And what they did is they did a thing in the school because on that day for the past 10 years since that day, since that time has been closed and for those to deal with it in their own way. And so at this 10th anniversary, we opened the doors again. And the student body were there and we had special guests there. and some people returning since that haven't been there since then.

And so it was a good celebration on those that are still with us today. We had the mayor of Tumblr Ridge on the program yesterday. I'm just wondering, I'm not asking you to give him advice, but perhaps a word for him and what you might want to tell him. Oh, I don't know, because we all know. deal with things in a certain in different ways, right? It's just not an easy period. There's no right answer. There's no wrong answer. I mean, having a listening heart and an understanding that it's out of our control,

what has transpired, but all we can do is the best that we can do with what we have. And to the people of Tumblr Ridge? Our prayers are with you, our thoughts, our prayers. And, you know, if you need somebody out there to understand, reach out to somebody in the loss, or, you know, if you will ask for my number, I'm glad to give it to you. Robert, we thank you so much. I know this is hard for you and for your community,

and thank you for joining us, and please do take good care of yourself and your community. Thank you. Take care. Robert St. Pierre is the former mayor of the village of La Lash, Saskatchewan. I'm joined now by two people who have also seen firsthand what communities need in the aftermath of these kinds of school shootings. Julie Kaplow is a clinical psychologist and executive director of the trauma and grief center at the Meadows Mental Health Policy Institute.

She worked in both Santa Fe and Uvaldi, Texas, providing support to those communities in the aftermath of school shootings, Julie's in Houston, and Dwayne Bowers is a licensed professional counselor who specializes in trauma. He provided support to the community of La Lash, Saskatchewan after that school shooting in 2016. He's just outside of Washington, D.C. Julie and Dwayne, hello, it's nice to have you both with us. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dwayne, a decade ago, you went to La Lash. You weren't supposed to be going there, but you ended up there to help. What is it like for you to listen to the former mayor, Robert St. Pierre, reflect on that time? As I was listening to him, it certainly brought up a lot of memories and a lot of the obstacles that the community was encountering. You know, we got there within hours of when it had happened. and it was a process of the community just in confusion, just not understanding why, why, how has this happened? I heard an earlier guest of yours say, it's a small community, this doesn't happen here.

How did this happen here? And those were the kinds of responses that were the immediate responses we were working with. Losh is also a small remote community like Tumblr Ridge. They're about the same size, about 2,500 people. So, Dwayne, when you got there, what did you see there that you're thinking about now that might help guide the response in Tumblr Ridge? One of the things that just impressed me so much was how much the community was coming together. And as I watched the leaders of the community like the mayor, what I started to realize was these folks who are now the leaders of the community, they all went to school together. And they all know each other.

And now they are helping support each other as their children have been through a traumatic situation. And so the bond was already there. Even if they hadn't connected for many years, it suddenly pulled them back together again. And that's what was the strength of La Lohs, was the community and the support. And I even talked to a couple of parents who talked about, you know, we didn't, me and this person, didn't get along so well in school. But we've become very close now just because our kids have been through the same kind of situation. So that community strength is so important. Julie, it's only been two days since this tragedy in Tumblr Ridge.

People are still in shock. There's still a lot of can't believe this happened. How long does that initial shock phase last? Yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, it really does vary for individual people. It also varies depending on the person's age, their developmental stage, and also the proximity. So how close were they to the incident? For many people who were directly involved or directly impacted, that shock can last, you know, months.

And what we want to do is be aware of the fact that for most people, especially those that were directly impacted, post-traumatic stress is actually a normal response. to an abnormal event. So, you know, that is one of the things that we've learned over the years in these tragedies is that to some degree we need to normalize that response, that that shock, the re-experiencing, feeling like it's happening all over again, questions about why, how did this happen? That is all completely normal, certainly within the first month to two months. When it goes beyond that is when we really want to start to take a closer look and

have that person evaluated for the possibility of needing treatment. You Julie have worked in the aftermath of many school shootings. So you just said what people do need. What don't they need right now? Yeah, you know, I think that one of the things we've learned is that in the aftermath of something like this, there are so many very well-intentioned organizations, individuals who want to parachute in and help the community. And that can lead to a lot of chaos and confusion.

And so one of the most helpful things is when we can start to really hone in on what is needed. So sometimes the sort of excessive need and urge to come in and help can make it feel more chaotic and more confusing to the recipients. So being able to really vet, you know, who is coming in, what are they offering? Are they trained in how to address that intersection of trauma and grief that's been, you know, very eye-opening, even some of the most seasoned clinicians who have treated trauma may not have treated those who've experienced traumatic loss. And even those who are well-versed in grief and bereavement may not have had as much exposure

to treating trauma. Dwayne, from your perspective, in these early days, what kind of psychological support is the most useful? When I respond to any kind of trauma, particularly this kind of trauma, the most important necessity is to reestablish a sense of safety. Because of the size of the community where this just never was expected or anticipated, there's been a violation of, of my sense of safety and my worldview has changed. Suddenly, I see the world much differently because now I see that I and my family are vulnerable. I in my community are vulnerable. And so one of the first things we want to work with is the sense of safety.

What is safe? Where is safe? Who is safe? You know, how can you feel, again, that you are safe in your community within your school, within your family? where is safe for you and how can we augment that and build on it. We also want to look at where you may need to feel that you have a sense of control and also that you're being heard. But I'd like to dovetail on something that Julie said. She made a really good statement when she said so many people come in trying to help.

And one of the things that doesn't happen is these organizations and sometimes ministries and whatever that come in to help don't stop. evaluate what is already there, what resources are already there, because the local resources are run by people I know. They're my friends, my neighbors, rather than strangers coming in and providing resources who are going to eventually leave. And so I think that's an important element, too, is making sure that the agencies that come in do a good evaluation of what resources are available and how do we support them rather than try to replace them. The grief, the fear, the trauma is being felt widespread across Tumblr Ridge and beyond. But let's talk about the kids because this was a grade 7 to grade 12 school, Julie.

Young kids, they lost their friends. They were stuck in a school not knowing what's going on for hours. How are the needs of the kids, how do they vary based on their ages? Because we're really talking about from about 12 years old to 17 years old. Right. Right. And that is such an important point because we know that the way we go about supporting kids that age can look very different than how we would support an adult, for example. But for children, what we find is that, you know, they are often very reliant on their parents and caregivers to really understand how to grieve in this moment, what to expect. And, you know, they look to their parents and caregivers for, what is normal grief? What does that look like? And so one of the things that we always emphasize is that the parent really needs to be attuned to their own reactions, their own support that they may or

may not be getting in order to best support that child. The other thing that we want to pay close attention to is that post-traumatic stress can look very different in children than it does in adults. And sometimes it can get confusing because post-traumatic stress can look like a number of other psychological issues in kids. So for example, it can look like ADHD, where children who are very hypervigilant or on edge because of what happened can look hyperactive. Or if they're very avoidant because of their post-traumatic stress, that can look like distraction. And so oftentimes children can get misdiagnosed early on. Similarly, if they are having externalizing behaviors, We often see this in kids who've experienced trauma where they will come to school and be more out of control than usual or be even more aggressive than usual.

And sometimes if the teachers are not aware that this is how trauma can manifest in kids, those children can get mislabeled early on as having a behavior problem when the reality is that that is simply how the post-traumatic stress is manifesting in children. Twain, how are you thinking about the kids and are going through in Tumblr Ridge, but also your experience in helping out in La Lash? I was also thinking in terms of there's an age range here between 12 and 17. And we also, as Julie was saying, we need to look at the different ages and where they find support. And one of the things with the older children, the seniors, the juniors in the high school, is that they will not only turn to their family, but they will also turn to each other for support,

where the younger kids tend to turn more to family and caregivers. The older ones include their friends. And so I think another thing that is necessary is for the school to build in a process for these older children to be able to be supportive of each other and to do that in a positive way. And what I have seen in the past in situations is that was overlooked and the kids didn't have any sense of direction on how to support each other. And it kind of went to the negative.

And so we want to make sure that the support they're getting from each other is positive and well directed as well. And so and I also want to make a point about the teachers. I saw that the teachers often were forgotten. The school administrators were often forgotten. The town administrators were forgotten. They're looked at as the leaders, the ones that are supposed to have the answers. They also need a place to vent. They need a place to process where they can feel safe in doing so as well.

And so that's another level of support that may be needed. No one is left untouched when a tragedy like this happens in a small town, as you were just saying there, Dwayne, that everyone needs. support, different kinds of support, but everyone needs something. Julie, the other factor in this particular school shooting, and it has happened in others, we're dealing with a suspect who was also from this community, knew people in the small town, people knew them. How does that complicate the way people might be responding to things? Yeah, you know, it's always so difficult. And I think that one of the things that we've seen over time is that there is often a lot of

guilt among community members when something like this happens where they will inevitably blame themselves for not noticing something sooner or not being able to intervene in some way. And we know that that's just a natural part of what happens in the aftermath of these situations. But, you know, I think it's so important to reiterate what Dwayne said about how everyone is going to need some form of support to deal with these questions, to deal with the fact that they may I've known the person, and especially for impacted people who are trying to help impacted people. So, you know, the clinicians in the community, the teachers, individuals who are there to support, they absolutely need their own support to deal with those feelings of regret or remorse or guilt or, you know, even anger,

questions about how could this have happened. Dwayne, when you're talking about a small community, we're literally everyone will be affected. How real is the risk of widespread post-traumatic stress disorder? It's very real. It is, and this is one of the added responsibilities of the leaders of the community is to help encourage the community to seek out help, to educate them. as to what to look for as far as indications of post-traumatic stress disorder in themselves as well as in their children and what to do about it, where to go for help, where to go for support, and that it is okay, that not only okay, but like Julie said, that this is anticipated, this kind

of behavior, these kinds of thoughts, these kinds of feelings are normal for the situation you've been in. And so I, and one of the things that I read recently was that the premiere of BC has already started asking about, so what happened within the mental health system here? So again, looking at, like Julie was saying, looking at what could we have done different, what can we improve as well? But I think it's really important for leaders of the community to make it okay to ask for help. Julie, I don't have a lot of time left, but this process is not going to be days or weeks or months. It is years. given that you have been in other communities. What is your message to the people in Tumblr Ridge right now?

Yes. You know, I think, again, normalizing the fact that the post-traumatic stress is real and that it's normal in those, you know, and certainly in the more immediate aftermath. But as you said, you know, as the trauma recedes and it will over time, the post-traumatic stress will recede, the grief remains. And I think, you know, recognizing and normalizing, and normalizing, you know, that the grief never goes away. It is a reflection of the love and care that we had for those who have died. And so it's unrealistic to think that we will sort of rid the community of their grief. That is always going to be there. But there are healthy ways of grieving over time. There are healthy ways of finding ways to feel more connected to those who have died, to live the legacy of the kids who have died, and really to make meaning of that loss. But recognizing that that is going to be a very long process. Thank you to both of you for your expertise and helping us all better understand how to navigate this. We really appreciate you making time for us.

Thanks, Julie, Capplo, is a clinical psychologist and executive director of the Trauma and Grief Center at the Meadows Mental Health Policy Institute. She worked in both Santa Fe and Uvaldi, Texas, providing support to those communities in the aftermath of school shootings. And Dwayne Bowers is a licensed professional counselor who specializes in trauma, he provided support to the community of La Lash, Saskatchewan after the school shooting there in 2016. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name's Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca.com.