The Current - What does Air Canada’s illegal strike mean for passengers and workers?

Episode Date: August 18, 2025

Air Canada flight attendants say they will defy a federal back-to-work order and remain on strike, as more than 100,000 passengers face cancellations and disruptions. We hear from passenger Laurie Panagiotou, who spent thousands rebooking a family vacation, and aviation expert John Gradek on what’s at stake for workers, the airline, and the government.

So you're saying this airline forces the cabin crew to work for free. Tell me you're at least paid for boarding and de-plaining. No. Safety checks. No. Not even medical emergencies. No, but we'll always show up. But they're charging flyers more than ever.

And we're putting in thousands of unpaid hours. Where is that money going? Canada's airline, hey? Unpaid work is a true crime. Visit Unfair Canada.com to hear the whole story. A message from the Air Canada component of Cupy. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast.

Over the weekend, the federal government intervened to end a strike by Air Canada's flight attendants. But Air Canada flight attendants say they will defy the order and not return to work. This comes after the Air Canada component of the Canadian Union for Public Employees and the airline failed to come to an agreement during negotiations. Key differences remain on issues such as wages and unpaid work hours. And for customers, there is, of course, a lot of frustration. Lori Pena Yatu from Ontario has been caught up in the disruption. She's joining me from Athens, having managed to rebook her flights with a different carrier.

Good morning, Lori. Good morning. Thanks for having me. How has the strike action impacted your vacation plans? Well, it's actually been the worst travel nightmare I can even ever imagine. We had booked this special trip with 15 of our family members. My husband is an elderly and we were bringing our four children, their spouses and three grandchildren to Greece for a vacation for two weeks. And it's just mixed up everybody's plans. How long did you save for that trip?

We've saved and planned this trip for over a year. I've got receipts from like 2024 for different hotels, different things we've booked. We actually booked our Air Canada flights in March of 2025. And we paid my husband, like totally, like if you look at all 15 of us who were supposed to go, this trip has probably cost us more than $50,000 combined. And so who made it to Athens in the end? Well, so far, my husband and I have made it. We rebooked a flight on Egypt, and we arrived yesterday afternoon.

We missed our connecting flight to the island of Kavallinia, and we missed our hotel there. So now, at the moment, we're still in Athens, and we're rebooked on another flight tonight to get to the island. So it looks like my husband and I are getting there. My one son flew to Paris, and then he's coming on Wednesday to Athens. He rebooked on another airline very early. As soon as he heard the possibility of this strike, he rebooked. He doesn't trust Air Canada at all. What has the communication been like from Air Canada through all of this?

I would say that is one of the major factors that has created that has contributed to this nightmare, is their lack of communication and any communication that you do get from them is totally confusing and conflicting. Give me an example of that. I have a really good example of it. On Saturday, our original flight was to fly out at 6.30 p.m. And all day, that was, that was. flight said it was on time and going but the website always or the app and the website said do not go to the airport unless your flight is confirmed but it kept saying our flight was going on time and then you get an email from Air Canada saying check in to your flight that is going on time so and then after that the flight ended up being delayed but they still say said check in and then all of a sudden the check in didn't work anymore but they added a gate so then

you really think it's going to go and then all of a sudden we get the email finally get an email I think it was late Saturday afternoon while we were on our flight with Air Egypt that the flight finally was canceled right and so have you started our one son from the grant Oh, go ahead, go ahead. I was just going to ask if you started the process of trying to get a refund for your flights. No, we haven't, my husband and I, because we're over here, and you can't do any of that unless you are, you can phone them. So we can't phone them from here and wait on hold. My son, my one son who lives in Burlington spent four hours and 45 minutes on hold with them on Sunday afternoon,

and he was able to cancel one leg of his journey. Funny thing was with that, they paid over $3,000 for their ticket and they were refunded only $700. Huh. And not half of the $3,000 that they should have. Right. And what about all of your other family members

who were supposed to come? What is their situation at this point? Well, so the one son is in Paris and he's coming Wednesday. The other son from Grand Bend, And they were caught, they were to fly with us on the same flight. They kept hoping all day that they, him and his wife and our grandson were going to be able to catch that flight because it was never canceled until really late. They started out for the airport twice and then finally gave up when they realized the flight wasn't going to go.

Tell us why this trip has been, I mean, you've been planning it for a while, that your family members have spent combined $50,000 on this. Oh, hello. Can you hear me now? Oh, we may have lost Lori. Lori Panayatu is an air Canada passenger who rebooked her trip after the disruption around the strike action through her plans up in the air. We heard from her that $50,000 between the 15 family members were spent on this trip to Athens. It was a very special trip that they'd been planning for a year and they are quite disappointed that it has not come to fruition in the way they would have liked. Now we're going to see. if we can get someone else on the line with us. But first, have a listen to this. Politicians are always there for the people during election time. But when it comes to when they're in office, it's, I guess, big corporation time. I was so excited about, wow, I think the landscape is changing. The people have the voice now. We, or this is what's going to prevail other labor disputes, maybe. This is like history in its making. What I realize is that they gave us a few hours of it, you know, ride the house.

and then took it away from us. Welcome to the Dudes Club, a brotherhood supporting men's health and wellness. Established in the Vancouver Downtown East Side in 2010, the Dudes Club is a community-based organization that focuses on indigenous men's health, many of whom are struggling with intergenerational trauma, addiction, poverty, homelessness, and chronic diseases.

The aim is to reduce isolation and loneliness, and for the men to regain a sense of pride and purpose in their lives. As a global healthcare company, Novo Nordisk is dedicated to driving change for a healthy world. It's what we've been doing since 1923. It also takes the strength and determination of the communities around us, whether it's through disease awareness, fighting stigmas and loneliness, education, or empowering people to become more active. Novo Nordisk is supporting local change makers because it takes more than medicine to live a healthy life.

Leave your armor at the door. Watch this paid content on CBC Gem. Guess who just bundled their home and auto with Desjardin insurance? Well, look at you, all grown up and saving money. Yes, I am. Mom told you to do it, didn't she? Yes, she did. Get insurance that's really big on care.

Switch and you could save up to 35% on home insurance when you bundle home and auto. Dejardin Insurance, here for your home, auto, life. and business needs. Certain conditions apply. Air Canada flight attendants say they will defy back-to-work orders and remain on strike. Air Canada says it is planning to resume flights this evening, but it is unclear if and how that will happen. John Graddock is a lecturer at McGill University in Aviation and Supply Networks. He also previously held senior positions at Air Canada in operations and planning. He's joining us now from Montreal. John, good morning. Good morning. I know you'd predicted that this flight by the

flight attendants was inevitable. What do you make of what happened over the weekend? Well, you know, you hate making those types of predictions, but I told you so. This has been in the making for 11 years. It's not last week. It's not last month. It's been 11 years. This has been in making. When Air Canada signed this last collective agreement with the flight attendants back in 2014 for a 10-year contract, that contract expired in March of this year. And there was a lot of catch-up to do to basically reflect a new set of working conditions that have evolved in the industry since that last contract was put in place. And there's a lot of catching up. And it seems that the union knew what

had to catch up to, told the Canadian people what they were looking for. And that started back in January. And Air Canada seems to have dropped the ball. It seems very much like you pin this solely on Air Canada? I'm going to pin it on Air Canada at this point in time. I think the Union has energized Canadians behind them. They've been added for seven or eight months with a very, very extensive and very effective communication campaign. Air Canada has been strangely quiet, which is, you know, to their, you know, that's their

way of doing business. And Air Canada basically ran to Mommy and Daddy last Monday and asked for binding arbitration because they've given up on negotiating. And to me, it really is, you know, an Air Canada failure at this point in time. I want to talk a little bit more about what the unions after and what Air Canada is willing to offer. But I am curious, your thoughts when you heard Lori and how she was very disappointed with the communications from the airline. What do you make of how so far Air Canada's handled it with its passengers? Well, I think, you know, Air Canada was very upfront saying we're going to have 130,000 passengers a day affected by this.

strike. So now we have two days worth of strike under our belt. That's 260,000 passengers. We have another 130,000 today, up to 400,000 passengers, and by tomorrow we'll have 500,000 passengers affected. And that's a lot of passengers that you have to get in touch with individually to basically offer them alternative transportation. And Air Canada has been a little slow in getting this alternative transportation, and I think that Air Canada is finding this alternative transportation is expensive, and yeah, yeah, and they have to work at it to go and find it, but it's available. Passengers are finding all kinds of travel trips. They're finding trips at $3,000 or $4,000 more than what they've paid, but that's Air Canada's obligation

to get those trips, pay for it out of your own pocket. Those are the rules. And so you encourage additional expenses to bring these passengers home, it looks like Air Canada is not willing to do that. Remind us what this is about this strike. You mentioned that the airline needs to catch up. What is the union after? I know a lot of it is to do with unpaid work and labor. Yeah, unpaid work and labor is a phenomenon that, again, I said, you know, in the 10 intervening years of a contract negotiation, a number of airlines have recognized the fact that, you know, we should be paying our flight attendants directly for work that they're doing in preparation for a flight.

Flight attendants get paid today. When you close the door and release the brakes of the airplane, the clock starts. And when you arrive, when the door opens and you set the brakes on the airplane, the clock stops. All that work that the flight attendants are doing prior to door closing and post door opening is not being paid directly. And so a number of airlines in the U.S., as well as some Canadian airlines, have recognized that need and have made changes to their pay scales and to their pay offerings.

Which ones? Like, does Westjet or Porter do that? Porter does that. Porter does that. Passcan and Quebec does that. American Delta United have got it in place. Alaska's looking at putting it in as well. So, you know, this is, and European airlines have done it for a number of years already. So this is a tsunami that's hitting the industry. Air Canada is trying to duck the tsunami, and unfortunately it's caught up to them with labor disputes. Air Canada, though, I understand claims that it pays its flight attendant. better wages than other flight attendants in other airlines. Is that true? Yeah, well, they pay, you know, if you're a 35-year flight attendant and you have a good

block, you can get paid to 90 bucks an hour as a flight service director. That's not bad. But you're a junior flight attendant. You've been, you know, 75% of Air Canada's flight attendants have less than five-year service. Well, guess where they sit on the seniority? Guess where they sit on the pay scale? pretty close to poverty wages.

That's the entry level of salary for flight attendants at Air Canada. So if you had a lot of seniority at Air Canada and you have living wages, you're fine. The problem is 75% of Air Canada's flight attendants have less than five years seniority. Yeah, it's COVID. COVID did that to Air Canada. But those flight attendants, you know, are living under poverty wages. And Air Canada has to eliminate those lower rungs of pay to get. the junior flight attendants into a living wage category.

And is Air Canada in a position to pay for higher wages and for all the unpaid work that's being done now? Does it have the means to do that? Of course it has. You know, they did it, you know, this is a must have cost. This is not a discretionary cost to the airline. You've got to make sure your employees are being paid a living wage and that they're happy and they want to come to work and they're working in an environment that they enjoy. And that will translate to happy passengers, and passengers want to come back.

You are now in a situation with Air Canada where your flood attendants hate you. 99.7% of the membership of this union voted to strike, which is the ultimate power that a union has. So guess what your labor relations atmosphere is like with your flood attendants at Air Canada. And you suggested that Air Canada ran to Mommy and Daddy, meaning the federal government

and asked the labor minister to get involved and they put it forwards to arbitration. And the union said they're disgusted by that and the government, you know, has gone ahead and said, okay, fine, yeah, go to arbitration. Is that then a win for Air Canada that they have the government backing on this? Well, they had the government backing

to institute this referral to arbitration through Section 107 of the Labor Act. This referral by the government to the CIRB has come once too often. You know, this has been a standard practice of federal governments recently. They don't want to go to back-to-work legislation in the House of Commons, because guess what? They're in a minority situation.

They don't want to be suffering a confidence vote on a back-to-work legislation where you have the opposition parties against them. So they're taking the back door is 107, go to Labor Code, and go to the CRRB and have a labor agreement imposed by the CIRV. That's been done multiple occasions, and I think this is one too many. The Labor Minister, mid last week, resisted, but by the weekend said, okay, fine, we'll do it your way or we'll try. Are you surprised that it seems as though Ottawa caved at some point? Well, if Ottawa was serious about solving this problem, and, you know, when Air Canada asked for binding arbitration to the union and they got turned down early last week, in order to prevent this strike from happening,

the minister should have automatically jumped in there if she has the intestinal fortitude to go in and call for binding arbitration, do it and prevent the strike from happening in the first place. Once the strike happened, you now have been an energized workforce and you have other unions who are joining the bandwagon on this one. And, you know, when you're trying to force the labor force, you know, Canada's labor unions, they need something to galvanize their at. attention, and this one sure has galvanized Canada's labor unions. What happens to the flight attendants if they are defying this back-to-work order? What happens to them? Well, we've seen this happen on several occasions in our labor history. For those you that can remember, and I do, Jean-Claude Perot, Ring a Bell.

You know, the postal workers back in 72, Shirley Grace, back in 78, both of them went to prison. Perrault for 30 days. surely went for 45 days because of defying a back-to-work order. So, yes, we have precedent in Canada. But that's not likely, is it? Well, you tell me. I mean, I'm not the expert. I was hoping you'd tell me.

No, I don't. This is Brent. This is a new territory. We haven't had this extent of a labor. This is an existential moment for labor unions in Canada. It really is. And I think the unions are saying we've had it with this referral to the CIA We, you know, employers have been abdicating their responsibility to negotiate an agreement and they basically are running to the government for, to get them out of a situation where they feel they haven't got, you know, the negotiations aren't going their way.

You know, one thing that was a bit confusing last week when we spoke to someone with QP a flight attendant who's also been involved in bargaining, she suggested that they only got an offer of 8% increase to wages in the first year, whereas Air Canada says, they're offering a 38% pay increase over four years. Where would this, and then there was a press release that came out on Thursday confirming that their offer does include this 38% increase. So what's going on here? Why all the conflicting messages? Oh, you know, Air Canada is bundling all of its benefits into one package at 38%. And there, you know, whether it's pension adjustments, whether it's ground pay,

whether it's other benefits that are looking at it. wages are only part of that 38%. And from what I understand, the wages that they're offering, I think the max they're offering is 17%. You know, the flood attendants are looking for 34 to 36% to take them out of poverty. And the problem is the ranch, is the rank and file of the flight attendants. Most of them are at entry level.

And that's the big gap. And Air Canada's not done anything to address those. Before you go, I'm curious, As Air Canada, managed to get a deal with pilots back in October, why not this time around so far? Oh, there's a bunch of theories as to why that happened. But, you know, my favorite theory at this point is that, you know, it's a male-dominated union. This is a female-dominated union. So I rest my case.

Okay. We have about a minute left, but where do you see negotiations going from here? What is the solution at this point? Oh, I think Canadians who are stuck, you know, on these trips, you know, are got to raise the noise level a little bit. I think Air Canada's got to step up to the plate and basically start paying to get these passengers home. There is space available to get these passengers home. I think Air Canada is being a little disingenuous in saying that they're trying what they can't get space. There is space.

You just have to pay for it. And the government's role at this point? Get out of the way. Let Air Canada and the Union and slug it out at the conference room table and lock the door. Don't let them out until I have an agreement. Okay. John Graddick, thank you for this. My pleasure. Have a good day.

You as well. John Graddick is a lecturer at McGill University in Aviation and Supply Networks. He also previously held senior positions at Air Canada in operations and planning, and he joined me from Montreal. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.