The Current - What hockey gave Leafs legend Mats Sundin

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Mats Sundin captained the Toronto Maple Leafs for 11 seasons, and still has more career goals, overtime goals and points than any other Leafs player. In a conversation from last month, he reflects on his NHL career — and why his family was important at every turn.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. Can you make that out? You hear them chanting, Sundin, Sundin. Toronto Maple Leafs fans chanting their appreciation for Matt's Sundin. He was their team captain for 11 seasons,

and on that night back in 2012, those fans were there to recognize number 13. The number one thing that I miss being retired and not living in Toronto is the people of Toronto. Boria Salming told me when I became a Leaf. Matt, you will love moving to Toronto. You will love being a Maple Leaf. I didn't know then, but I know now what he meant. The great tradition and the great history of the Maple Leafs

that I'm now part of. Thank you very much. All these years later, and Matt Sandin still has more career goals, overtime goals, and points than any other Toronto Maple Leaf player. He started his NHL career, of course, with the Quebec Nordiques. He ended up with the Vancouver Canucks, but it's

his years with Toronto that stand out. Matt Sandin has written his memoir called Home and Away, and I had the chance to speak with him last month. Here's our conversation. It's really cool to hear those. I remember all of those moments. What's it like for you to hear that? I get emotional here. Here's our conversation. It's really cool to hear those. I remember all of those moments. What's it like for you to hear that? Yeah, I get emotional here. There's a great introduction. One of the great things in the book is it's an opportunity to sort of zoom out

over all those years. What's it like reflecting on your years in Toronto now? Well, I'm glad I wrote my book with some distance to my career right i think and it was time now if i didn't do it started last summer it was not going to happen and uh so uh you're a little wiser when you're 53 than when you're just retired or when you're when you're 25 we all hope so anyway but uh it's it's just a great appreciation I think when I have my own kids now, three kids, and reflecting back on the career, I felt very fortunate to ending up coming to Toronto. And, you know, there's no market like playing in Toronto.

And people, players, I don't care if they grew up in Toronto, until they put on the blue and white jersey and actually represent the Maple Leafs, it's impossible to understand what it means well you barely understood what it meant when you were up fishing with your family when when you got signed to the leafs and like a helicopter landed people come and try to find you yeah no i had no idea what it meant until i actually came to my first press conference and and i realized oh wendell clark he he was a he great player. I knew that, but I had big shoes to fill.

I realized that at my first press conference, and it took me a long time to earn the respect from the Maple Leaf fans. It took me a few years. Well, you earned it in the end. Oh boy, did you earn it. I want to talk about, one of the themes in the book is family, right?

It's so interwoven with your career. And at the end of the, I finished the book thinking, this is more a book about It's so interwoven with your career. And at the end of the, I finished the book thinking, this is more a book about Matt's family than it is about his career, which I thought was really interesting because it weaves your beginnings with hockey to your beginnings of hockey with your kid now. What role did your parents play in you starting your career? Yeah. And I think one of the reasons why the book, and I agree with you, there's a lot about life there in the book. And one of the reasons is I have my own three. Yeah, and I think one of the reasons why the book, and I agree with you, there's a lot about life there in the book. And one of the reasons is I have my own three kids now,

and you reflect on how you are as a parent when you get your own kids. And I realize if I can do half of the job my parents did with me and my brothers, I'm going to do great. So I'm just trying to keep up with the driving to end the Saturday morning at 7 a.m. I think all canadian families can can recognize the the stuff that we went through and um and also i realized with my kids you know it's a completely different world where we are today than in the 80s right right with the internet and the the struggle the parents go through with the iPads and iPhones. And we were just out there playing street hockey, right?

So I think also I was one of the reasons I think I had a long career. In 19 years, I was in the National Hockey League and were able to be in Toronto for 13. My upbringing was safe. There was no pressure. And I had a very strong family. And I think that actually made me a very I was I was never I didn't feel any I was very comfortable in the role who I who I was turning pro and it

really helped me once all the pressure came of playing in the National Hockey League there's a great moment where your dad sort of sits you down he's like hey dude no pressure here if you don't want to do this we don't have to do it A lot of families would be the exact opposite of that. And I was 16 at the time, right? So it didn't happen when I was eight. And one of the best hockey players in the country at the time. Yep. And that's where all your hormones, all your friends are going to.

It's like a party at the high school that starts at nine. And you're going to practice. It starts at nine. And you're like, where am I going? And my dad always said, you know what, if you want to practice, yeah, absolutely. I'll drop you off at the school party after. Oh, that's great.

But he had that heart and heart, and that's the only one I remember I never had anymore. I said, listen, if you're going to keep playing hockey, we got to get up at 7 tomorrow morning Sunday. We can't be out until like 1.30 in the night, so you have to start making up your mind. As you know, as a dad now, the seven thirties come early. And I think, but I think also parents nowadays might have those talks when they're 10, right?

Right. Like you want to, you have to let the kids play for as long as they can, because it's kind of gets serious. So we talk about that. Well, and you talk a lot in the book about like chasing your brothers, your older brother, especially who was bigger, faster, older. And you were like, no, no, no, let me play. You know, what impact did chasing an older brother with more talented kids have on making you better?

You know what? If you ask all the best coaches and leaders anywhere in the world, in any sports, women and men, there's an unbelievable advantage if you can have someone you chase and i mean as a kid that i did early on because that's going to improve your development quick quick quick but even grown-ups i mean new women and men and i know from the swedish cross-country team charlotte kala many gold medals she gets into the national team and there's always someone there to chase

that you're looking up to. There's one Olympic gold, or you come in as a new, that's the perfect situation. So I think that's very important when you're going to reach somewhere and try to become successful, to have someone to chase, very important.

Well, and you had people to chase in Sweden. I mean, Boreas Alming is also from up in the north like you they were you you came up with some of the best players that have ever come out of that absolutely and i i agree with that and and and and idolizing but to be close to them like practice with them and go out and skate with them and work out with them and see how hard they work and want to say i want to and when you you realize also, oh, they're just like me, really. They're very good, but I think I can get there, right? Right. Well, and so you get drafted 89?

Yeah. You get drafted. You go to the Quebec Nordiques. You're the first ever European to be chosen first overall in the draft. Yeah. When did you realize after the draft how big of a deal this was going to be? Well, the funny thing is, when we start writing this book, me and Amy Stewart, my co-writer, did a great job.

She was also surprised, you know, because you're going back in time to 89, right? Right. Like, no one in Sweden knew what the draft was. Like, me and my parents. Pat Quinn, who actually called me later to induct me helped me maybe call the hall of fame when he gave me a pin in a four-nation tournament in czechoslovakia somewhere after practice or a game he came up to me he was the gm for the vancouver canucks at the time he goes matt you're gonna have a great career in the National Hockey League. Like I was 17. I was like, maybe I can make it over there.

Maybe. Maybe imagine that. And that's how, so it was a very, you know, when you read it, it's almost naive, but you have to remember what time it was. And so when I got drafted, it was all of the Swedish newspapers explaining to the Swedish people what the draft was. Right. Right.

For sure. And then you get to Quebec and like you were on, and you were a teammate of Guy Lafleur. Unbelievable. You want to talk about learning from people. Exactly. Joe Sakic and Guy Lafleur. And my first game coming out of the rink, leaving my childhood room back in Solentoun.

I'm living with my parents, and after a few weeks, I walk in the room for my first game, and I was there three hours ahead of the game like I was so nervous and in the National Hockey League just how perfect all the sweaters are up there and there's my name with Sundin and 13 and Joe Sackick and Gila first stall everything was gone like his sweater pants socks you think he didn't show up that day he's was like, he's not going to play or is he retired? And I walk around the corner. And he's, I think he's already 40 or 39 at the time. He's all dressed, skates on and everything. And he's doing a stick.

And he looks over when he hear me coming and he said, Matt. And I, terrible. Trying to do his French accent. I'm like, it's great to see you here in time. You know, preparation is everything. If you want a long career, you're going to have a long, great career. And he kept doing his stick. That was very important.

I'll never forget that moment. And he told you to shoot the puck more. Every day. Really, eh? Shoot the puck. Tabarnak. Shoot the puck. Mats, don't pass it.

So I lived in Quebec City for a long time. The ghosts of the Nordiques are still everywhere in that town. You were just there. But you leave Quebec to go to Toronto, traded for my beloved Wendell Clark. When you did get here, how welcome did you feel? Amy, my co-writer, Amy Stewart's favorite player as well. Right. Yeah.

No, it was a shock the first press conference that's that's when i realized oh i got big shoes to fill here in wendell i realized that and being is coming from europe big guy uh i wasn't afraid of the of the of the the physical part of the game in north america but I was, I mean, my game was skill, skating, passing, shooting, producing points. Wendell, rugged, great shot, would drop his gloves, hitting guys, leading in a different way, great leaders. So it took me a good, I think, three years until I earned the respect. And they were like, you know what? He's going to be okay. But it took me many years to earn the respect. I grew up in Toronto.

I was born in 72. So you can imagine my image of Borja Salming is outsized. He's a giant. He was a giant for you. He was a mentor. He played with him. What did he mean to you? I think he was a key man.

And it was almost like it was meant to be. So when I heard about the trade, I'm at Boris Salming's hockey school in Kirna, small mining town above the Arctic Circle in Sweden. And I got a call, and I said, I'm going to the Maple Leafs. That's great, he says. You're going to be in the best franchise in the world, the biggest franchise. So from that moment until being asked about the captaincy, first man I called was Boris Salming.

And he right away said, Matt, you have to accept. And I said, why is that? He said, it's such a great honor. And he regretted he didn't accept it when he got asked. And he didn't accept it in part because what he felt, his language wasn't good enough, but also you have a line that he felt the C was not just for captain, but for Canadian.

Yeah. And I think more than anything, he was such a laid back, quiet guy. I mean, most Swedes are, but he was very, and from the farther North you come in Sweden, the more quiet people get. And he was certainly like that. And, but when he reflected back on his career, that was one of his regrets.

I was in the stands the night that he was honored in 2022 when they recognized him after his ALS diagnosis. It was an amazing moment to be a part of in the stands, not a dry eye in the house. You were out there on the red carpet with him. And it was, what was really telling, I was there with my buddy Marcus and he was saying, you know,

hockey's a tough game. You know, it's rough and it's brutal, but there was a lot of emotion and clear emotion throughout both teams, everybody in the stands. You write about the emotion in hockey and about the familial bonds you form with these guys.

Do you think fans might be a bit surprised by that still? You know, I think it's easy when you're only getting the media feeds about what's going on with the team or the guys do the interviews and guys are, you know, trying to say the right thing. You know, you try to say the right thing. You're a team. You can't, you know, go on about everything else,

and there's a lot of it. So we hope that we can get uh the reader to actually reflect and get more of a human side of the players as well behind the scenes and and the moment you know i remember talking to boy saw me his wife a couple weeks going over and she said you're gonna have to be prepared matt's because bory has gone a lot worse yeah just the last three months and that moment was devastating to see him in the shape he was in and just understanding how that's going to end. It clearly meant so much to him, though.

Oh, yeah. It was so powerful. Yeah, and for him just to make it over to North America in the state he was in. But it was a special moment. And I think that Toronto Maple Leafs did a great job handling it in a great way for a boy and his his family and it meant the world for him. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs.

And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. The Leafs' quest for a Stanley Cup is ongoing. I think the closest we've come recently was in 2002 when you and the team made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Toronto against Carolina, Game 6 back in Toronto.

The Leafs had to win. And now behind the net, Suning jumps out in front. Leafs are all over the net there now. There's a chance at the line. Big shot by Pavanay. Shoots straight in. Scramble. Goal.

The Leafs have tied the game. And the race goes crazy. 21.8 seconds remaining in regulation. And Sundin comes through for Toronto. Roberts tips it. Then Matt Sundin shovels the rebound in. So we're tied. What else is new? What else is new?

I get shivers hearing that. I got goosebumps here now. It's up my scalp. So again, I was covering that game. I was there. You tied it with seconds to go. That's not how it ended. How hard was that one?

Well, yeah, it was hard. I think any time you get beat out in the playoffs, and we obviously never reached the finals. We were close a couple of years. We lost to Buffalo one year in the conference finals and against Carolina in this game. But just those runs in the playoffs like when you reflect back obviously right there and then it's devastating everybody's crying and you put in so

much time and effort since September and you fall just a little bit short you win 10 games you got to win 16 right you're not far away but still far away right so so but reflecting back, it's, you know, and I got asked that question, do you have any regrets of not winning the Stanley Cup, right? And I have zero because, you know, hockey, and if you read the book, it gave me and my family so much unexpected happiness and everything we have today is because of hockey,

represented the Maple Leafs. So, you know, but I do say Toronto Maple Leaf fans deserves the Stanley Cup. And it's been a long time. And, you know, that hurts that we weren't able to do that when I look back. But, you know, it's going to happen. Just a matter of time.

I'm a Leafs fan. And I know how just bonkers we are. And the pressure, like, it must be so much easier to go play in Utah or whatever. And to come, what was it, how did you personally manage all of that scrutiny, all of that pressure of being in such a crazy market? Yeah. And just like it was said, there's no market. I don't care where you played in the world hockey. You don't know what it means like to be a Maple Leaf until you wear the sweater.

And it is a tougher market to play for many different reasons. If not half the league, a lot of players in the league, they're from Ontario. When they come home and play the Maple Leafs, who were their childhood team growing up, their favorite team. They got to get 20 tickets for all their family. They got to get 20 tickets. But also, even if they lost 10 games in a row you're gonna get their best game for sure so there's many different reasons and you know when you play in tampa or florida or vegas i mean florida and vegas won the cup the last few times the stanley cup champions are

going to go through adversity adversity through a year there's going to be losing streaks. They're going to have people hurt. But it's not under the microscope the way it is on a daily basis, the way it is in Toronto. And it adds pressure, even though the players, most of them, I don't think, follow the everyday news. But it's still, you know, you feel a little bit of the pressure. So it is a different world. But it's going to happen.

And I still would not want to win the cup in Las Vegas. The place to win the Stanley Cup is in Toronto because that's what it would mean the most. And you talk about that in the book, those moments when the Leafs were asking you to waive your no trade clause. And they were saying, hey, there's contenders out there that maybe you can go win a cup with them. And you said, no, I want to win a cup in Toronto.

You opened the book with your jitters before the game, your first game. Now you've taken a contract with the Vancouver Canucks. You're coming back for a game in Toronto. How did you feel in that moment, coming back to Toronto? Because there's got to be a little bit of resentment that it didn't work out. Jitters that the fans are going to boo you or whatever.

How were you feeling? Well, it was, I mean, we played the finals in the Olympic finals, and it was my last chance to win Olympic gold in Torino in 06. But I would say that game, I was more nervous than, you know, trying to win my first Olympic gold coming back. And the reason for that is I think you know personally i understand the business of the game right and toronto maple leaf's trying to do what's best for the organization over time there's no regrets there but still as a player you still take it personally you have so much

time invested and effort and try to you know get to where you you want to go on the team and organization and the fans so it was a lot of emotions coming back and experiencing that. And then I got the deciding penalty shot. The shootout goal. And so we've got a part of your post-game interview with Elliott Friedman. This is from February of 2009. The three stars when you went out, you blew kisses to the crowd, you bowed, and then the ovation in the first period.

The media here has known you a long time. I think a lot of us have never seen you like that how close were you to crying i was probably crying a little bit uh 13 years in this city and with the team it's been it's been a lot of ups and downs you know a lot of emotions and a lot of great teammates that's passed by and i mean the fans and the organization's been very emotional right and uh so it's been a build-up for this game and it's what nice to look forward now no matter how this game would have ended or so forth I wouldn't have changed my memories and my thought with the Leafs it was always going to be the same but this certainly ends in a nice way glad it's over yeah thanks a lot man

I mean we're just sort of pulling out all the stops here to try to give you as much nostalgia for your time here as possible. What goes through your mind when you hear that? Well, exactly. So I'm saying the same thing as I'm doing today, right? And right there, it was emotional. It was very nerve-wracking leading up to that. But at the same time, we try to reflect on it

on the book too. It's weird how it was. Once you play the game, time stops and you live in the moment and you forget all about that, but that's just what hockey is. That's the only thing I really miss about the game is that when the puck drops

and you're in the game, you live in the moment. We have three kids and you're planning the game, you live in the moment. Yeah. And we have three kids and you're planning the next week or you're looking back. It's hard to find those moments. You talk about mindfulness. Exactly. Hockey's great for that. Everything's blocked out.

Exactly. And you had your first kid right after you retired, right? Yep. A lot of the guys do it during their career. Yeah. You've been able to be around. You guys moved back to Sweden with your wife,

Josephine. You have three kids. Is it your youngest son who's playing hockey? Middle son. I try to get my youngest son. He's going to hockey school. We'll see. What is it like? You remember, you write beautifully about you and your dad

driving dark through Stockholm to go to games and practices. What's it like to be the guy driving and watching him? You talk about how he's kind of nervous going to his own pregamegame rituals you know i i love it and i think it comes from my upbringing and and you know i'm i'm not half as good or doing it as good as my parents did but but still i go to every practice when i'm home to watch him i go to the games my daughter plays basketball i love going to watch her game out of of the three of them, I mean, Bonnie is the oldest.

We have two sons. She's the most competitive. Is she? The oldest always are. Your older brother was too. Yeah. But it's great. I love that.

And it's really a natural way of the next step in life. You know, we're our age. You know, I really love it. You were at the Leafs training camp this past summer? Yep. Involved with the team. I really love it. You were at the Leafs training camp this past summer. Yep. Involved with the team. You're still, like you say, the team has become,

they've done really good things in terms of celebrating some of the past. They retired a bunch of jerseys finally. What is your advice to the guys that are on the team now about managing, about playing, about being in that moment and the mindfulness that comes with being? Well, I was really happy to get invited by Brad to Living living and the leafs management to to be part of camp for a few days you know i'm very impressed of the team obviously i think everybody that watches the team knows what they're what they can do on the ice right austin matthews uh not only one of the absolute best players in the world he's a great guy he's a natural leader off the ice so it's nice to be around the guys and i think the most important thing is is just continue to be the way they are

and make sure they have a strong strong bonds within the dressing room that starts in training camp keep building those throughout the season the there is going to be adversities they're going to be a little more, you know, people are going to see them a little more in a market like Toronto and block that out and just keep driving and become a really tight group that buys into coaches' program, and they're going to have a great spring. It's amazing in reading this book how, you know, you span these generations. You played with Gila Fleur,

and then you played with Michael Nylander, William Nylander's father, and now you're still connected to these young guys. Do you see, is it still the same game, or has it changed so much in those years? I think the concept of winning, what it takes, is the same. I don't think there's any difference. I think the teams that are are ready to be

as close as you can be and pay the price that it takes to play another two months once the regular season is over, they're going to win I don't think that's changed, the game has changed the pace is up in the game there's no hooking and holding they got rid of that at the end of my career, so

you see more skill right through the lineup, so the pace is up right through the lineup so the pace is up uh but but at the end of the day you know you know you have to if you're going to win a championship yes you got to score goals you got to play good defense and you got to get good goaltending so you need to have the complete package i'll put you on the spot here do you think the lease will win the stanley cup in your lifetime in my lifetime of course of course sure course. Sure. All right. We're going to leave it there. Mats, thank you for this book. Thank you for all your time in Toronto as a fan. It was really great to be a part of, and it's really nice to just get to chat with you today.

Thanks for having me. Mats Sundin's memoir is called Home and Away. I spoke with him in October. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.