The Current - What teens really think about social media

Episode Date: November 28, 2024

Filmmaker Lauren Greenfield convinced a bunch of teenagers to give her full access to their phones, where she saw social media’s impact on young minds in real time. She shares what she saw, what teens told her — and what parents should be worried about — in the documentary series Social Studies.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. Social media is our lifeline, but it's also a loaded gun. The whole point of it is it's designed and engineered to keep us addicted. How do you get off social media without it like... Without not being invited to things anymore. Exactly. It's like, how do you get off social media without people forgetting you exist? It's a dilemma posed by a group of teenagers in Los Angeles. They're part of the first

generation to grow up on social media. And this group gave one documentary maker full access to their phones for a year. In the series, Social Studies, we follow their lives on and offline, giving us a unique window into how their online worlds bleed into their daily lives. We asked some Vancouver high school students what we'd see if we were given access to their phones

and about the role social media plays in their lives. I would say definitely a lot of scrolling. I spend a lot of time scrolling on social media, definitely more than I think is good for me. It's definitely hard for me to put it down. It's like I look at the time and it's been like hours when I think it's been like only half an hour or something like that. I think it takes away from like our personal or like our social connections like in person.

Like even though it's like a way to communicate with others, like I feel like it also makes that harder like to make connections in real life. I think it's cool in the sense that like if you don't live near someone or like if they live far away, if you don't go to the same school you can stay in touch but I also think it's like kind of terrible social media has like ruined like a lot of in-person connections I feel like a lot of people aren't as good as talking in real life as they are over the phone actually I've tried to stop using Instagram as much why because like I was really addicted to reels you know reels I'd just be sitting there

scrolling and then I realized I was wasting my summer so then I deleted it but then now I got it back but like I got a little limits on it you know it's nice. You can kind of adopt a different persona because it's not really you. I don't know. I think in a lot of ways it's hurt. Yeah, a lot of ways it's hurt because social media during COVID was pretty, it feeds things to you that you normally wouldn't think about, and those things can be really unhealthy. Lauren Greenfield is the documentarian behind the series Social Studies. She is in Los Angeles this morning.

Lauren, good morning. Good morning. I love that you talked to high schoolers in Vancouver. This project actually was inspired when I was in Vancouver with my own high schooler there for one year. Tell me more about that because we talk so much about phones and social media and their impact on young people. Where did the idea for this to go deeper into this come from? Tell me a little bit more about your own life and the conversations you were having. Well, it kind of came from two places. One is in my professional world, I had been looking at youth culture in my photography and filmmaking for 30 years. I started with a book called Fast Forward that took place in the same

area that I filmed social studies, the West side of LA. And at that time I was looking at how kids were influenced by the media, which seems so archaic now, TV and movies and music. And I wanted, as I saw how my own kids were influenced by this new media, social media, own kids were influenced by this new media, social media, and how many more hours it was, they were interacting with it. I realized I wanted to go back to the same site and look at how kids were influenced by this new media. But on a personal level, I had two teenagers when I started this, 14 and 20. And I saw my young, they were like from two different generations. My eldest was a reader and only kind of superficially on social. My youngest was on screens a lot. And we had constant battles over screen time. And during COVID, this really peaked

and I started to see a mood switch, like he would get depressed or ornery after being on screens for a few years. And we actually kind of moved to Canada because of it. We moved to Canada during COVID for a job, but ended up staying there for one year so that Gabriel could be in in-person school and in-person sports. And so I had my own little case study where once he got off screens 12 hours a day, he kids and a variety of kind of secondary kids looking at how they were impacted by social media. And they agreed to give us access to their phones, which was an incredible kind of revelation and also narrative. How did you convince them? I mean, this is, as you say in the film, this is like their private world. How did you convince them i mean this is as you say in the film this is like their private world how did you convince them to give you access to their phones you know i think

that they were really concerned also about the effects like they felt addicted they they did not want to get off but they also could see how it was affecting them. So I think a lot of the kids who participated cared about the issue. Some of the kids also were using it and kind of exploiting it in different ways for their own fame. There was one kid who was a musician who was using it to promote his music.

There was another kid who threw parties and was a big party promoter and had gone viral. So I think they kind of participated for different reasons. But I will say one thing that surprised me is how they really brought themselves in such an authentic way to the project. When I was planning it, I thought, well, fame is such an important value. Are they going to want to be part of this project and being filmed to get fame and if so that doesn't really give us um the right control group and it was really interesting they

really treated this in kind of a serious way and presented themselves very different than they did on social media which was actually really interesting because I think one of the unique things about the show is seeing the different perspectives because we see their performative sides in the verite when they're with friends, when they're with school. We see how they project themselves in the bigger world on social. And then we see their kind of innocent selves, like the side that you might see with your kids at home. And it's so different than the other parts of them that we know. You know, as a parent, I was responding to like, you're on too much. Can you get off to my kids? But really, I had no idea what the language was, what the content was, what the positives and negatives were. And so I think it was so important to get

in there with the specifics and see what they're looking at and also have them guide us through. And that was why I decided not to have any kind of adult experts talking heads in this documentary series. It's all from the kids' point of view. And I think we need to kind of give them the respect that they are the experts. And I think the wisdom of their observations and their vulnerability and kind of showing how it affects them is really what makes the series special. Just one last point on just how you did this. You also have these kind of group sessions where they would meet with you without their phones and sit around and talk. I mean, as a whole, at the deepest level, what were you hoping to understand? Well, first of all, when I started doing the group discussions, I wasn't planning on using

them in the film. It was really for my own research so that the kids would lead me to what were the important issues. But they loved being in discussion. And I realized that they didn't really have a place to debrief on this huge part in their feelings that, you know, other kids were kind of going through similar things. And so we do this thing in group where when somebody identifies with what somebody else was saying, they did a silent clap. And it was so powerful because you could see that, you know, these are not universal issues, just in case people in Canada think this is some LA thing because of Hollywood. Like, no, we heard the kids from Vancouver, like this is so universal. And I think it's so important to listen to the kids and also understand what they're going through. I just want to implore parents to make the effort to watch because I think it is really relieving to kids for their parents to understand what they're going through.

It opened up all new conversations for me with my sons. And we actually made a parent guide and also an educational curriculum that's free for teachers and schools to use so they can have these discussions. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with season three of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts.

You mentioned fame earlier. And this desire to be famous is a theme that runs throughout the series. The kids talk about this all the way back to the age of seven when some of them started interacting with social media. I want to play you a clip from one of the earlier group sessions. Have a listen to this. Who in here has gone viral? Show of hands.

Oh my gosh, everybody's gone viral. With Kim K, she got famous for the sex tape and so like with platforms like tiktok where like anybody can get famous that's like if you put out content like kim kardashian did maybe you'll get famous if i could become a multi-millionaire with a giant company and like be as famous as kim kardashian i would release my sex tape a sex tape she's all set up now her whole life is set up. She's super famous. She has millions of dollars.

She has her own company. So does all of her family. Her mom definitely inspired that whole thing. How surprised were you when they said that? I mean, I kind of suspected that fame was an important value. That was one of the things that really drew me to this project is just hearing from kids that they wanted to be rich and famous rather than kind of a doctor, an astronaut, like talking about jobs. But yeah, I think that the fact that a room full of

teenagers all know that Kim Kardashian got famous for a sex tape and that that is fine. It gives you the lifestyle and also that it was manufactured. And then also that it might be a behavior that they want to kind of emulate or model for that same goal. I think that is, it's both shocking, but it's also a kind of rational reaction to what we're seeing in the culture in terms of fame and likes providing value. And I think for teenagers, it's particularly, it's particularly interesting because being a teenager has always been about being accepted by your peer group. And you know, we've always had like the traditional teenage movie where we have the popular kids and like how hard it is to not be popular, how you want to be popular. And I think this is really

what I was seeing kind of across the board is that all of these kind of structures are just, or goals are just amplified to the nth degree, because now being popular means going viral and being known by millions of people that you don't know. And the stakes are much higher. And it's also much more addictive, because it's all about numbers. And I would always hear like, kids say, you know, when they started getting on, they wanted a hundred followers and then they wanted a thousand followers and then they wanted 2000 and it's never enough. How does, how does that impact their life? Do you think in their behavior when, I mean, one of them says that if I didn't have social media, I'd just be a boring 14 year old when you were documenting everything in real time, how does that shape your behavior?

Um, I think it just makes it so wanting to be on this hamster wheel of getting more likes is a very important kind of activity and kind of part of your daily experience. Like you feel pressure to post, you feel pressure to be on the snap map and see what other people are doing, having these different kinds of validations that the social apps give you. But also feeling really bad when that doesn't happen. I mean, all the kids who went viral said like, it was a great feeling. You know, we actually know it like creates dopamine. That's like a drug.

But then you're like, how do I recreate that? How do I get it again? You know, we know or we hear from the kids that it for parents kind of freaking them out to watch this is that it's the sexualized images of themselves on Instagram that get the most likes. And you hear this from, from one of the people in the film, Sydney, who's now a university student. She talked to you about her regret over the photos, the revealing photos that she had posted on social media in the past. Have a listen to this. I would post pictures that were just not normal to post for being a minor, but that's what you see online and on TV and everywhere, and that's what's marketed. Social media is more about looking good and appealing to what other people like.

And I, like, tagged my Instagram account, like, so people would be like, oh, she's, like, hot. I'll follow her Instagram. What did you learn about why Sydney and others would post those sorts of images? I think that they, it's a natural experiment. They post a picture of themselves in a bathing suit or in a sexy pose, and all of a sudden the likes go through the roof. It's almost like the new kind of loss of innocence.

And Sydney talks about having a passion of taking photographs and trying with these photographs of sunsets. Nothing. Quiet. Then she posts pictures of herself in provocative poses and it goes crazy. The likes go crazy. And she keeps doing more and more and getting these reactions. And she doesn't even mind at that point that sometimes they're like really disturbing, gross reactions from men and obviously older men. And still it's not enough for her to stop. So she has a really incredible arc

over the five episodes because she does find her voice and go to a different place. And I just did a kind of Q&A with her at Harvard. And it was so amazing to hear her story and to hear what she learned from the process. And I think this is so common. I think it's interesting that her mother is also part of this. And her mother, who has posted things on Facebook for a long time, says that she doesn't want to look at her daughter's TikTok anymore. What's the responsibility that you think parents have in this?

I think parents need to know what's going on. I just want to come back to parents saying like, oh, I'm scared to watch. And we even hear Sydney's mom say, I don't know if I want to know what's in her TikTok. No, they want you to know. They want to talk about it. They don't feel a lot of control in this space. And actually, Cooper talks about like when they have a chance to be without it, like in group, they really love it. They really want that in-person connection. But it's so addictive.

And I think one of the mistakes we make, and I made this myself as a parent, is expecting kids to self-regulate. Like we would not do that with an opiate addiction. These apps are designed to take advantage of young brains and keep them addicted. And so just saying like, oh, be on less or you should know better. That's not going to cut it. I think schools need to ban it from schools. I think parents and teachers need to create safe spaces without phones. And you heard it from the Vancouver kids. parents and teachers need to create safe spaces without phones. And you heard it from the Vancouver kids. Once they have these timeouts, they also like that and want

to come back to it. Did you see examples of where social media could be a positive force? I mean, we talk again a lot about in their bestselling books about this and a sense of panic in some corners around what social media is doing to young brains. But did you see anything positive in the work that you did? Absolutely. There are positive aspects. I think community, finding community, especially with marginalized groups, like there's a trans character in the show who talks about finding community that was really beneficial. We also see a lot of kids using it for creativity, using it to help each other, using it to either have a peer-to-peer kind of suicide

hotline support or looking for social justice in different ways or creatively with film and music. But I think we make a mistake by thinking it's a binary choice. This is not about whether social media is good or bad or technology is good or bad. I think we need to be pro-technology. But these apps are designed for engagement and engagement that they know is not good for kids. And so I think we need to demand that the algorithms are crafted for good and not for effects that we know are harmful. I think one of the most, and you hinted at this, one of the most interesting things that comes up is this teen to teen peer support and crisis line, a call center where teens are there helping other teens. I want to play a little

clip from that. Have a listen. Hey, this is Teen Line. What's your name? Hi, Mila. How old are you? 14. Awesome. And does that make you in ninth grade? Eighth grade. What's going on tonight? on what website did you meet him if you're comfortable telling me have you had any of those thoughts recently how old are you 13 so does that mean you're in seventh grade well thank you for for calling in and for sharing that with me that must have been really scary to be talking to someone who's that much older, especially when you don't know them, right? That's really quite something. Yeah, I think one of the really heartwarming and kind of hopeful parts about the series are the kids themselves and how thoughtful and empathetic they are.

And self-aware, too. Exactly. I think, you know, we kind of think of this generation as being narcissistic. But Jonathan in that scene is just so empathetic and so caring for another kid. I think the sad part is it almost feels in the show like the kids are on their own, kind of helping each other, helping each other because the structures of parents and authority and school are not taking care of the problems that they're having. So there's all sorts of expert advice that is out there for young people on what to do about social media. You have the Surgeon General recommending warnings on social media platforms. You have in Australia a law that was introduced that would ban

kids under 16 from social media. What solutions, because they are so self-aware, what solutions do the teens in this series actually propose? Well, they really like, they kind of come to at the end saying like, it's so great to have a space without phones. And most of them say if they could choose, they would rather be in their parents' generation. So they don't really come to easy solutions in that they say, they talk about the existential problem. Do you exist if you're not on social? So much of the world is around it. But Cooper said last week, they like when outside forces are saying, don't be on. I think collective action,

like taking it away from school or like what Australia is doing is very helpful because when a whole cohort gets off of it or a whole group of parents says we're not going to do it till 16, then they find other ways and it's not key to their social life and they are much happier. So I think that we also, I think it's a mixture of creating safe spaces, not expecting them to do it, but creating collective decisions around it. And then also engaging with kids. Like this should not be a battle where then they're like sneaking off to do it. Like, I think we really need to listen to them and get to the bottom of what some of the issues are. And honestly, when I think the issues when the issues are exposed, I do think it's going to be like tobacco research with the cigarette companies.

Once there's a very clear-cut link between being on these social apps and terrible things like eating disorders and suicidal ideation, then regulation should ensue. This is like the only area of media that's completely unregulated. I said as a parent that this is stressful to watch. And you said, yeah, so? In some ways, that's the point. You've hinted at this as well. What are the conversations that you hope parents would have with their teens as they watch this? I think it's a great show to watch with your teens. And I think it opens up discussion. I think it's actually very entertaining and validating for teenagers and 20-somethings. The response that we've gotten is they really feel seen, it opens up discussion. I think it's actually very entertaining and validating for teenagers and 20 somethings. Like the response that we've gotten is they really feel seen. They really

enjoy it. They like that they were gotten like a lot of the little things that are in the show, the music and the title sequences, Olivia Rodrigo, like it's entertaining for kids. This is not like a, you know, a report from an expert or, or the Surgeon General or a kind of talkie documentary. This is really in the language of young people where we hear from them. And so I think watch it with your kids, have conversations, ask questions. If you need help, look at the parent guide, but get in there and understand what they're going through. There are scary things that they might want to be sharing with you and don't know how. And I think, you know, it's just really important.

I mean, we had a teacher who was a teacher of some of the kids in the show who came to the premiere of the show and said, I had two of these kids in my class and I had no idea what was going on with them. It's really quite something. The access that you get, but also what we learn from that access. Lauren, thank you very much. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Lauren Greenfield is the director of the documentary series, Social Studies. You can watch it in Canada on Disney+. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.