The Current - What this young designer learned, disguised as an 85-year-old

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Back in the 1970s, the young designer Patricia Moore travelled the U.S. disguised as an 85-year-old — and experienced the real struggle of navigating the world as an older person. Moore went on to become a leading figure in inclusive design, and finding practical solutions to create a world that doesn't leave seniors behind.

1942, Europe. Soldiers find a boy surviving alone in the woods. They make him a member of Hitler's army. But what no one would know for decades, he was Jewish. Could a story so unbelievable be true? I'm Dan Goldberg. I'm from CBC's personally, Toy Soldier. Available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. This year we have been exploring all the questions around getting older.

This is in our ongoing series As We Age And something that's come up a few times, the practical difficulties that come with navigating everyday life as you get older. Whether maybe you need a ramp instead of stairs, maybe it's doors that open easier, or perhaps a bit wider. These type of infrastructure adjustments are part of something called universal or inclusive design.

The idea of designing things for the most people possible. This is not a new idea. Back in the 1970s, one young designer was ahead of her time in thinking about this, and so she transformed herself from a 30-something into an 85-year-old. This is Pat Moore. She is 31. Dressed as an older woman, she took to the streets across the country to learn the lessons of aging. The motivation was born out of pure frustration watching what was happening in New York City, which is the capital of engineering and design in this country, and realizing that we were deliberately designing a Darwinian society, this survival of the fittest.

Patricia Moore went on to become a leading figure in inclusive design, something that she continues to fight for. She is in Phoenix, Arizona this morning. Patricia, good morning. Good morning, Matt. This persona that is so interesting what you did, this persona that you created was known as Old Pat. Tell me where this came from.

Some of the idea and part, the inspiration for this came from your grandmother, right? I think definitely being raised with my grandparents in our home in Buffalo made a tremendous difference in my attitude about elders and aging. And when I entered New York City to practice design as the only female at Raymond Loewy's New York offices, and Loewy is considered the father of American product design, he did things like the Coke bottle and Skylab. And I realized we had tremendous ageism. And in fact, as a designer, I was told in briefs

that we didn't design for those people. So that really the frustration of having a great love of my elders and then working in a way that I was excluding them, that gave birth to the opportunity to look closer at why were we so afraid to age. And I mean, I had read that your grandmother struggled to open a refrigerator door or something? I was a really little girl helping here in the kitchen one day and I heard this little cry

and realized that my grandmother's arthritis had made it so painful she couldn't open the door of her refrigerator. And I'm sure that that memory stuck with me as I trained, you know, and as I began working as a designer. But it wasn't until I went to one of those obligatory parties in New York and I was almost out the door when someone stopped by saying hello and I had to respond, of course. And it was Barbara Kelly, the makeup artist for Saturday Night Live. And I remember the moment where I literally just said to her, could you make me look 85? And she said, sure, you know, because she's from Brooklyn. And for her, it was very matter

of fact, she was making coneheads and all those great early characters on SNL. And two weeks later, I was on an aircraft going to a conference in Ohio to meet with architects trying to define how elders should live. And I appeared as one of them and nobody recognized me. No one spoke with me. I was completely ignored and I realized I had stumbled into something very powerful. What did she do, as you mentioned, I mean she's a legendary makeup artist,

what did she do to make you look 85? Well it was the Mrs. Doubtfire treatment. You know, you cast your head in plaster and then they make molds and latex pieces and they glue those onto your face. It's a two to three hour process just to do the face. But what was really important was to take away all my innate abilities. I was actually 26 when I started, 31 when I finished. And so I had to have curvature of the spine, my legs didn't work quite right, I couldn't

see clearly through the contact lenses that we used which were semi-opaque, my ears were plugged, my fingers were wrapped and I wore gloves. I was living in the shell of a woman in her 80s even though I was in my 20s. When you went out as old Pat, what was life like? What were some of the things that you found hardest to navigate in a world that many people believe has been designed for younger people? Pat Slauson So, I would either be greeted with smiles and nods, people were kind, they held the door, they took my arm as I crossed the road, or again, the abject failure to

see me as a fellow human ignoring me, or even being cruel to me. On two occasions I was mugged, on the second I was beaten by a gang of very young boys, they couldn't have been much older than 12. And so we had all these great extremes from good to bad and everything in between. What did you learn about the world when going out as an older person? The probably the most important thing is for us to stay socially involved. As hard it is to make new friends when you lose a friend, you must do that. It's social isolation that actually is causing the greatest amount of difficulty in late life. And loneliness is an epidemic, not just for our

elders, but for people of all ages who find themselves living alone or without family and friends for support. So work really hard on those extra activities, stay involved in your community, and you will find that because you're sharing with others who are caring and involved in your life, you're able to be involved in their lives and it all comes together quite beautifully. But it's not an easy proposal growing old. Physically, how difficult was it to get around as an older person? Well, depending on what characterization I was doing, because we actually did nine different women.

So if I was using a wheelchair, no matter where I was in North America, because I did research in Canada as well, just coming against the barriers that are built into the environment by design. At the edge of the curb, for example. Exactly. Um, and so without the help of others, there were times I had to simply give up on trying to do something I wanted to do.

If I was just walking with my cane or a stick, it was often much easier. But by the end of the day, I was emotionally exhausted by people who were unkind and cruel. How did your experiences as old Pat go about changing how you looked at design? Well, I always looked at design as being a helpmate and not a hindrance, but of course, design was more often than not a hindrance. It was actually my colleagues who had an attitudinal change. And then as we came together with this recognition that design was meant to create inclusivity and equity,

that we were to work with empathy and not create a hierarchy where the, you know, the best body was the body that would be able to utilize a product. We're still fighting for a lot of that equity today, particularly when it comes to online services. So if you're an elder with low vision and reduction of hearing, managing your finances with online banking is difficult, if not impossible. And of course, what we saw through COVID, we had so many elders throughout the world who were unable to go online and make appointments for their vaccinations and who helped them, the younger people, their grandchildren, friends, neighbors. So we still have to work as a community because there are going to be some inequities in late

life by design. But we're certainly fighting harder and winning more of those daily battles for this, making sure everything works for all ages and abilities. Why do you think that we've designed a world that doesn't work for all ages and abilities? What's at the root of that? Well, unfortunately, the isms are hard to explain, aren't they? Whether it's racism or age bias, the isms are all the same. They're born in hate. They're born in a lack of understanding, consideration, and caring.

And so we always have to fight to balance those scales. It takes people who really, in a word, give a damn, to go against what has been the easy way and be more inclusive. And certainly we're seeing today in all of our schools in design and engineering and architecture, I don't know that there's a program that isn't focused on exactly what I started out to do in the 70s. It has become the way we work. How does empathy play into the work that you've done over the course of your career? When you look at a situation or an opportunity, not just from your vantage point, but from the vantage point of everyone around you and anyone that you haven't yet to meet, I think you're doing the due diligence of design.

You're producing dignity by design. And again, I can't imagine starting any project without that outcome in mind. I want all people to be equal in the outcomes I'm hoping to do with creativity and innovation. That's my job. That's my joy. When you're out in the world, is there something that you see that just drives you around the bend? You think that is a clear lack of attention paid to universal design. Oh, I suppose every time I'm in an airport, I just, I don't know where to look first. It's absolutely terrifying to me. What's terrifying about being in the airport? Well, I was struck by a car in New Zealand in 2017, and that completely changed my life.

It turned everything upside down. My right leg was crushed and it had to be rebuilt. And it's never going to be the same and so when I travel I have a cane and in the early days I was in a wheelchair using those silly little vehicles that are beeping at us as we go through the airport. None of that works at all well. Just that transfer experience is a reason a lot of people just stop traveling because it's emotionally painful as well as physically painful.

Is there just finally, is there a piece of advice that you would give your younger self before you learned what you know now? What would you tell your younger self? Save every penny, save as much money as you can. Sadly, aging well right now is coming down to finance, and that's all over the world. I would have had fewer nights out and put more money in the bank because we're all very frightened about what's happening with our finances. Do we have enough money? Are we going to outlive our money? I don't know of anyone my age who doesn't think about that on a daily basis. That's quite a shame. And that's an equity piece to the aging process as well, right? That not all

of us will age equally. Exactly. And what you can afford may ease that passage as you get older. may ease that passage as you get older. Exactly, yeah. It's the quality of life shouldn't be about money, but there you go, it is. The work that you've done is really, really interesting. I mean, I think it's fascinating, just the process of it is incredible, but also what you have learned

and what we still have to learn as a society. I mean, I can't tell whether then the conversation feeling encouraged or discouraged. You're doing the work, but there's still a lot of work to do. Well, give yourself a pat on the back, Matt, because programs like this help someone. We're reaching out to someone who might not have thought about these things, who actually is in a position to change outcomes, to do more, to be a better person, to be a better CEO. And when we all wake up and realize we're in this together,

the great human family will survive. But I think what we're talking about today is making sure we thrive. It's really good to talk to you about the work that you've done. I appreciate it. Thank you for speaking with us. Thank you, Matt, and I look forward to the next time.

Patricia Moore is an award-winning industrial designer. She was in Phoenix, Arizona.