The Current - What to know about Ukraine’s corruption scandal

Episode Date: November 19, 2025

Two weeks ago, anti-corruption investigators in Ukraine revealed allegations that men close to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy received $100 million US in kickbacks through a state energy company. The list includes a friend from Zelenskyy's comedian days, who co-owned his production studio. Tim Mak, editor of The Counteroffensive, notes that people are outraged in the country because corruption is the animating force in Ukrainian politics. Simon Shuster, a Zelenskyy biographer, says the president has a history of giving people second chances, but in the middle of a scandal like this, that might come back to bite him.

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Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. Earlier this month, the Guardian's Luke Harding interviewed Ukrainian President Volodomir Zelensky, when all of a sudden, the power cutout. Hard times. Electricity is not. No, not Everest. Not Everest. Ongoing power issues like this have been a long-running issue following the Russian invasion of Ukraine,

and that is one of the reasons why new allegations of a corruption scheme involving a state power company have caused so much fury. The National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine has alleged the people close to Vladimir Zelenskyy embezzled tens of millions of dollars from the state enterprise. These accusations target the now former Minister of Justice and a close friend of Zelensky's from his comedian days. Tim Mack is the founder and editor of the counteroffensive. It is a news outlet covering human interest stories in the war in Ukraine. Tim, good morning. Good morning. Give us the thumbnail sketch of this scheme that Ukraine's anti-corruption investigators are alleging happened here.

Right. The anti-corruption officials in Ukraine say that about $100 million has been embezzled from Ukraine's energy sector. As you point out, this is a area that's a particular. particularly sensitive for average Ukrainians because they are living day to day with power outages where for large portions of the day they don't have power, they don't have heat. So it's very personal for a lot of people in Ukraine. These anti-corruption officials, they were involved in a investigation of this matter that was about 15 months long, hundreds of hours of wiretapping, and their raids have led to the seizure of cash in bags. And the scheme that they allege occurred is that the Ukrainian government's contractors were forced to pay kickbacks of, say, 10 to 15% in order to get paid as a supplier or to avoid payments getting blocked. And so this is really roiling the whole political scene in Ukraine.

How has Zelensky responded to these allegations? Because, as I said, some of the people who are wrapped up in this are from his inner circle. from before politics and during politics. Right, and we don't even know how deep the corruption scandal goes yet. It hasn't fully matured. We've gotten some initial allegation. And it's also important to say these allegations have not yet been proven in court and that many of the people accused haven't had a chance to present evidence in their defense.

But that being said, you know, one of the both appeals of Zelensky and one of the criticisms of Zelensky is that his outsider status prior to when he was president. And the people that he brought with him to government include a businessman named Timor Mindich. And he was the co-owner of a media production company that was founded by Zelensky before he was elected to be president. And these allegations involve Mr. Minnich being a central figure in all of this. In reading about this, the word disgust was used in terms of the Ukrainian public's response to these

allegations. How would you characterize how the Ukrainian public has responded? There's two factors here. One is that it's not, this is not a corruption during some average period of time. It's, it's alleged corruption in a sector that everyone feels the, the downside, that things are not working properly. And so that that increases the outrage factor. There's also the point that this is happening during a period of war. that money that was, if embezzled in the way that these people are accused of embezzling it, this is money that could have otherwise gone to soldiers on the front line who are trying to fight for Ukraine's very survival as a sovereign nation.

And then there's the point also that in many ways, this war is being fought obviously because Russia invaded Ukraine, but this war is also being fought against this post-Soviet legacy of the way Russia does government. And business, you could make the argument to the reason for this war at all is this push against corruption. In 2014, Ukraine overthrew a government in large part because of accusations of corruption, which led to Russia then seizing Crimea and starting a war in eastern Ukraine. So this is central to the entire narrative of why there's a war going on in the first place. What does a crisis like this do to morale during that war?

it's been several long years of war it's very hard for me to say anything other than it's it's very discouraging for people on the front who are who are right now i mean it's extremely cold there's very little power um and and not only does the ukrainian you know the ukraine government hasn't laid out a specific strategy as to what they want to accomplish over say the next six or 12 months. And while this is all happening and while soldiers are suffering, they're looking and they're reading on their phones, on the news about this corruption scandal. It's absolutely a negative, it's definitely going to be negative from now. We're going to talk more in just a moment about the implications possibly for Ukraine, but also for Zelensky. But what is your sense

just finally as to where those anti-corruption investigators are going to shine the spotlight next? Yeah, I don't think they're done. I think this is the beginning of a scandal, not the culmination of it. There have been, and we've reported through our publications, that there have been a number of probes into the defense sector as well, the defense industry. And there's been no allegations that have come to light yet, but there might be. And we also don't know the full nature of this particular scandal as it relates to the energy sector. And I think there are a lot of details that have not yet come to light.

I mean, this is not gone to court yet. You know, the prosecutors have not provided detailed indictments of the kind that we would have seen in a Canadian or American contact. So there's still a lot of question marks about who is exactly involved, who knew about this. But it doesn't look good for Zelensky at all. You may remember that in the summer he signed legislation. that would have defamed the very anti-corruption officials that are now making these allegations. We're going to talk more about that next. Tim, it's always good to talk to you. Thank you very much.

Thanks so much. Tim Mack is the founder and editor of Counter Offensive. Hello, I'm Jess Milton, host of the podcast backstage at the Vinyl Cafe. Join us every Friday for funny, fictional, feel-good family stories about Dave, his wife Morley, and their kids, Sam and Stephanie. and for behind-the-scenes stories about what it's like to live life out on the road, on a tour bus, living out of a suitcase, traveling across Canada. New episodes every Friday. Subscribe for free wherever you get your podcasts. Before Vlodomir Zelenskyy was a politician, he was, famously, a comedian,

entered Ukrainian politics, as Tim said, as an anti-corruption crusader. But after his 2019 presidential win, many were worried about that lack of government experience, and perhaps some of the people in his orbit. Simon Schuster is a staff writer at the Atlantic and the author of The Showman inside the invasion that shook the world and made a leader of Lordomere Zelenskyy. Simon, good morning to you.

Good morning. Good to have you back on the program. We heard Tim described some of the people involved in this scandal. Tell us a little bit about Timur Mindich and his relationship with Zelensky. What do we know about that? Well, he's an old friend. I think the closest dimension of that relationship

is that Mindich owns a big stake in the production company that President Zelensky founded about two decades ago now. It's a production company that made comedies, sitcoms, films, and was the main hub of Zelensky's business before he went into politics. Mindich was a major investor there again, and they were also friends socially. For example, Mindich hosted President Zelensky's 45th birthday party. back in 2021, which was two years into Zelensky's presidency. So their friendship carried on into Zelensky's political life. Mindich managed to apparently slip out of the country just before, like hours before anti-corruption officials raided his home.

And the suggestion is that he was tipped off. Yeah, that seems clearly to be the case. I think that's what most Ukrainians are assuming. That has not been alleged by the anti-corruption investigators. technically legally Mindge did have the right to leave the country despite the restrictions placed on men leaving under martial law

but now he is reportedly in Israel my attempts to reach him have been unsuccessful so far how plausible do you think it is that Volodomir Zelensky did not know what was going on I think it's it is plausible

I don't know if it's likely and it's really not clear the extent to which it was going on, generally, you know, there have been these old friends of the president, his old entourage from the entertainment business that took positions of power after he became president. We're talking in seats in parliament, senior positions in his administration, but also more prominent roles in business in different industries. And Mindich is an example of that. Now, was President Zelensky keeping close? tabs on everything that this group of friends was doing. He's a busy guy. So I guess it is plausible

that he wasn't aware of this scheme. There are two parts to this. One is that he came in, as we said, on an anti-corruption ticket. But the other part is that earlier this year, he attempted to defang the anti-corruption body that is now accusing some of the people in that inner circle of corruption. That led to street protests in Ukraine. But how do you understand that? How do you understand why he tried to pull the plug on that body? It was to stop exactly these kinds of investigations. And I've talked to President Zelensky about his position on corruption and the war against the war on corruption.

You know, he says it is a priority, but it's interesting to hear him talk about the way that he understands the fight against corruption as a destabilizing element in a time of war. When I talked to him about this, he described, he said, you know, Simon, look, if you have a sweeping, sprawling anti-corruption investigation, looking into every part of the presidential administration, it's destabilizing, it's distracting, and it doesn't help you keep morale high and unity strong within the presidential team. So he has to weigh that against the need, the other priority of fighting corruption. So it's interesting to hear him talk about how he weighs those up. But he does say consistently that fighting corruption remains a key priority and something he came to office with as a major promise of his campaign. Do you think those who were up protesting on the streets bought that excuse or that explanation?

No, no. And, you know, the agencies, the independent law enforcement agencies that are leading these investigations are sacrosanct for the people of Ukraine and almost as importantly for Ukraine's foreign partners. I talked to one senior European diplomat yesterday who said when Zelensky tried to do that this summer, tried to defang and strip these agencies of their independence. The Europeans said, if you do this, we're cutting you off. So he faced a lot of pressure on that side. I mean, those agencies are seen certainly by many Ukrainians and by the European allies and Western allies as a kind of immune system for the authorities. They are meant to watch over and investigate any signs of graft. Now, that is uncomfortable for Zelensky because some of his associates, members of his government, come under the magnifying glass of those agencies.

and he tends to bristle with that quite aggressively. What does this mean for him politically? He's a wartime hero. I mean, he could have fled, didn't flee. There's that famous video of him. You know, we are here. He's standing in the square the day after the invasion. You now have the former Ukrainian president, Petro Parshenko, reemerging.

His party called this blood money. What does this mean for Zelensky politically? Well, I should mention Perschenko. It's hard for him to talk because he lost the elections in 2019, in large part, because of a major corruption scandal on his watch. Indeed. But anyway, so that's a tough one. I'd say this.

President Zelensky and his team have tried very hard over the course of the full-scale war to create, to foster, and to maintain this image, this persona of the wartime leader, this aura, almost Churchillian aura of the wartime leader around Zelensky. And that image is critical to their diplomacy because they have given the world a hero to support, this kind of icon who presents himself on the world stage is defending freedom, defending democracy. And this scandal chips away, punches quite a big hole, I'd say, in

that image. Now, Zelensky and his team are trying to prevent any damage to that order by sealing him off, by saying that no, he had nothing to do with this, and his reputation should not be affected. But that's not working right now. I think what I've heard from Washington, especially on the Republican side, is that he is the leader of the country. The buck stops with him, and he needs to take responsibility and take charge and clean this up. How vulnerable, I'll let you go, but how

vulnerable do you think he is? There's this issue, there's the issue, you and I've spoken about this before, the issue of elections. Ukraine has gone without elections since the war began, and there people agitating for that to be corrected, if I can put it that way. So how vulnerable is he? Politically, he is vulnerable. I mean, as Tim said, your previous guest, that we don't know how far this investigation has yet to go. The investigators have been hinting in some of their statements saying things like to be continued. There are clear indications I've heard from Zelensky's team that they are expecting the scandal to spread to the defense sector and defense procurement and even more sensitive potentially area of corruption allegations. So if this spreads, I think Zelensky is

very vulnerable, both at home and among his foreign allies, which have been so critical to maintaining the fight and keeping Ukraine alive. Simon, good to talk to you, as always. Thank you for your insight. Thank you. Simon Schuster is a staff writer at the Atlantic, and he's written a biography of Volodymyr Zelensky. It's called The Showman, Inside the Invasion, that shook the world and made a leader of Volodymyr Zelensky. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.