The Current - What will Canada’s private sponsorship pause mean for refugees?

Episode Date: December 10, 2024

Immigration Minister Marc Miller pressed pause on private refugee sponsorships — a model that other countries around the world have adopted — until the end of 2025. A refugee who fled persecution in Myanmar, his sponsor and an advocate share their fears about what the pause will mean for displaced people who had been hoping for a fresh start in Canada.

In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news, so I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy.

On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. In 2016, Joya Morris wanted to do something to help refugees, and so she and her partner, along with four other couples, helped two Syrian refugees and their four kids settle into a new life in West Kelowna, British Columbia. When we saw the suffering on such a huge scale

and me being from Europe originally and watching all these refugees flood into Europe and into Italy on boats and drowning, I just had to do something. And it had to be something other than just giving money. That's Joya in a video put out by the UN High Commission on Refugees, touting the benefits of Canada's private sponsorship program, where at least five people band together to sponsor a refugee family for one year. As private sponsors, Joya and the others

didn't just cover the family's costs, but offered friendship and support, from greeting them at the airport to buying groceries and helping them learn English. Last week, though, Canada's Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Mark Miller, announced that the federal government was stopping the program until the end of next year in order to deal with a large backlog. Over the past year, the government has been reducing the number of newcomers admitted to Canada. It's part of the larger plan of making sure that the reductions make sense. And in this case, when it comes to the private sponsorships, there's an oversupply of folks out there.

So it's about being real with Canadians and making sure that when we make those dedicated commitments to people to resettle, fleeing war or oppression, that we're doing it in the right way and not entertaining false hope. So that was, it's an unfortunate reality of the situation we're in. Natasha Freitas has sponsored multiple refugees over the last five years, and she's with me in our studio in Toronto. John Junaid is the first person that Natasha sponsored. He's a member of the Rohingya minority in Myanmar who have faced decades of persecution and violence,

and he is in our Ottawa studio. Good morning to you both. Good morning. Good morning. of the Rohingya minority in Myanmar who have faced decades of persecution and violence, and he is in our Ottawa studio. Good morning to you both. Good morning. Good morning. John, as somebody who went through this program, tell me how this worked. You fled to Indonesia from your home in Myanmar. How did you end up in the private refugee sponsorship program in Canada? Well, after leaving the country somewhere around 2014, I was trying to go to Australia, but I couldn't make it. I was arrested and detained in Indonesia. And in Indonesia,

I tried, you know, to seek asylum and refuge and sort of fighting for my human rights to rebuild my life. But the situation was not very accommodating to refugees. Refugees are not welcome in the country. And there were policies of Australia's deterrence, sort of, you know, influence in the country, in the regions. And refugees are kind of, you know, a trap in these hopeless situations in Lambo. For more than a decade, many refugees have given up.

And for me, it was particularly difficult because I was speaking out against the dehumanized situations of refugees. So it was almost impossible for me to seek any support and help from the refugee system. So that's where the private sponsorship came to save my life. You've said that it saved your life. You said that without the program, you don't know if you'd be alive today. That's correct. Because, you know, as a Rohingya, first of all, I could not go back to my country. I don't have a country per se. And the resettlement option to other countries, like I said, because Australia was influencing, they completely banned refugees resettlement to any third country. So many refugees were giving up on their lives and suffering from mental health.

So I was in these situations living for almost seven years with no hope for resettlements. So like I said, I was in a very sophisticated situation with my advocacy. So that's where these Canadians came in to save my life. These Canadians, including Natasha. Natasha, why did you want to get involved in this? Why did you want to be a private sponsor? Well, I had heard about the private sponsorship program, and it seemed like just an incredible way that we as private citizens could make a direct impact and help in this very tangible way somebody whose life was in danger. A tangible way. I mean, we heard this from Joya as well. People see a need,

and there's a desire to do more than just give money. That's a big step, to sponsor a family, to sponsor somebody. You're responsible for them, literally, for the course of a year. Why did you want to take that step? Well, there are multiple reasons. One is, I'm Jewish, so I've always had a sense of being part of a people that was persecuted. There were people that helped my family back in the 40s after they were detained after the Holocaust. the risk of not taking that step is so extreme. So what, okay, let's look at the worst case scenario. Somebody comes here and you do something wrong. You fill out the paperwork wrong.

They're in danger of their life. So the consequences of not stepping up and doing something are quite larger. And then lastly, part of why, when we got connected to John, part of why we chose him, because we thought in some way he might be kind of an easier person to sponsor. He already spoke English. He was outspoken as an advocate. We could tell that he was going to be fine as soon as he stepped foot on Canadian soil. So it seemed almost like an entry way to trying out this approach of private sponsorship. This is not a one and done scenario. I mean, you wrote a piece in the Globe and Mail about watching what a reunion between a man that you sponsored and his family.

He's from Afghanistan. That's right. What was that like? Oh, it was just absolutely one of the most profound moments of my life. You're kind of hair on your armstands. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So it was almost a year ago after John came here and it was such a pleasure and wonderful experience for all of us to get to know John.

My family decided and our group decided we wanted to try sponsoring a family. Obviously, it's a lot more responsibility when there's kids involved, people maybe who don't speak English. So we learned about a family where the dad and the mom and the girls had been separated for almost 10 years. Actually, this family is Hazara, which is a persecuted minority in Afghanistan. When the dad had to leave to flee the Taliban, his wife was pregnant. He had been detained in Indonesia like John, so he had never even met his younger daughter. He hadn't seen his family in 10 years. And so the way sponsorship works is if you sponsor one person in the family,

everybody gets to come. So they were basically Abdullah came first, and his family arrived about six weeks later. He had stayed with us during those six weeks. And then our whole group took him to the airport to meet his wife and the girls. And it was just absolutely chilling. You have a big smile as you tell the story still. Yeah, exactly. Like all of us were sobbing. There was not a dry eye in the place. You know, even the IRCC guard who was helping and the volunteers were crying. It was just really, it was really profound. John, what do you remember about meeting Natasha and her family?

And those first few weeks and months in your new country in Canada? The moment I step in Canada, I feel like this is my home because the way I was welcomed by Canadians, by Natasha and his families and others, I feel like I belong here. And they make me feel that this is my country and they make me believe in the goodness of the world. You know, for like almost 10 years, seven years, after fleeing the country, I thought that there is no goodness around the world. After fleeing the country, I thought that there is no goodness around the world. So they helped me redream my future and helped me believe that there is still goodness in the world and that I can, you know, dream for my better future. That's a really profound thing to say, partially that this is your home, but also that they were your family and that there's goodness in the world. I mean, tell me about that support that they gave you.

What did that support that you got in those initial days mean to you? Well, you know, when I first came to Canada, I know nothing about Canada, even the history of Canada. I was in a very traumatic situation. They not only helped me to kind of overcome my trauma, but also helped me really understand Canadian history and Canada and culture. And they provided me guidance to really, you know, not just settle in Canada, but thrive in Canada. And through their support, I have worked, you know, a lot of good work in Canada. And now I've been to, in the parliament,

I work with the politicians, and now I'm doing my master in the cultural universities and while also working on different kind of project, you know, raising awareness for human rights and advocating for refugees and while paying tax to the government, you know, in a paid job. So these are all because of their contribution that I feel really Canada my home today. What is that like to hear? feel really Canada my home today. What is that like to hear? John has always been very expressive about his appreciation for having us sponsor him.

And of course, it works both ways. We've learned so much through him as well. But I remember when John first came here, it was at the end of COVID. He had to be quarantined for a couple of weeks. As soon as he was released, we had all the sponsorship group over for dinner. And John came over and, you know, he gave us this incredible speech about what it meant to be living in freedom. And, you know, I remember him just, you know, staring at all the kids and saying, kids, you need to understand how lucky you are. So this is possible in part because of the work that you did and the work that your group did.

But it's also possible because of this program, the private sponsorship program, which has existed since the 70s. We've seen it during, with refugees from Vietnam, Syria, and beyond. And now the government says that, I mean, the word is paused, that's going to stop this program at least until the end of next year. When you heard that, given what we have just heard, what went through your mind? Well, I was devastated. I mean, the first thing that went through my mind is this is not a pause, as you just said. My guess is it's a slow way of stopping the program. You think that they're winding it down?

I do think. That's my great concern. And when you say you're devastated, why are you devastated? Well, this has been a lifeline for, you know, over hundreds of thousands of people have been brought to Canada through this program over the past 50 years. This was the first program of its kind in the entire world,

and it's been a model for other programs. And for me, it's part of what makes Canada such an incredible humanitarian leader. So to pause that program is, you know, devastating symbolically, but it's also devastating to the hundreds of thousands of people who are hoping to come here, where Canada represents a possibility of freedom. And then there's also the other piece of it that is devastating is much more concrete, all these sponsorship groups that were working on applications that might have just submitted them, had they known, had no prior warning. Mark Miller said that one of the reasons why this is being, in his words, paused is because of the backlog of those applications. What do you make of that reasoning?

Well, there's definitely a backlog. I won't argue with that. But for me, the way to address the backlog is to bring on more people to address the backlog as opposed to pausing the program. Right. So if you the thing about private sponsorship that is really different and unique is that the sponsorship groups do everything like we raise the money. We fill out the applications. We pick up people at the airport. We help them get jobs. We help them find housing. Like the burden on the government is absolutely minute. And so why

would you want to pause a program that actually requires no funding from the government to the point that within one year of refugees arriving, they're required to pay back the airfare that the government pays to bring them here? John, what do you think this pause signals for refugees in countries around the world who are waiting to come to this program, as Natasha said, and suddenly learn that it's on ice right now? What do you think the message is to them? I think from my advocacy perspective as a refugee advocate and a student doing a study in migration and diaspora, I think what I have been learning is that the global thoughts are becoming more deterrent toward refugees. And Canada's Refugees' Private Sponsorship Program is what made Canada really different from any other countries because it not only contributes to the global refugee crisis,

but also allows the Canadian citizen to really be part of the solution, not part of the problem, which is what makes Canada really interesting and different from many countries. And Canada is the only country that has this program that allows Canadian citizens to really make a difference to someone's life, like me. Like, if it wasn't for Canadian citizens, I would not be alive today, honestly speaking. I would not be alive today. So canadian really gave me a second chance in canada so what i have been learned from what i have learned from this experience of what's happening around the world is that so canada is kind of being influenced by this deterrent policies that are being spread out against the you know across the world to stop refugees coming to the

global south seeking refuge. So what they are doing right now is that they are kind of like converting this humanitarian policy into more of a border and security issues. And that's what's happening right now. It's not just Canada. It's sort of the global south is kind of, you know, it's kind of becoming a global trend with the global salt becoming more deterrent. So for me, it's really inhumans. You know, as Tasha described, it's not like a pause for one year.

But the government is sort of planning to inform the public slowly. It's just a pause, but it's not a pause. It's a well-planned trend that will stop refugees coming to Canada. So this is really inhuman. And I think it's also sort of denied the individual right in Canada. It's a right of every Canadian. It's kind of like they are taking away this right from individual Canadians and giving it to more bureauc you know, bureaucratic authorities, which is very undemocratic from my perspective as a human rights advocate. John, I'm glad that you made it here. I'm really glad to speak with you this morning.

Thank you very much. You're welcome. And Natasha, thank you. Thank you. Natasha Freitas is a private refugee sponsor, and John Janiad is a refugee who came to Canada through the Private Refugee Sponsorship Program, was sponsored by

Natasha. In 2017, it felt like drugs were everywhere in the news. So I started a podcast called On Drugs. We covered a lot of ground over two seasons, but there are still so many more stories to tell. I'm Jeff Turner, and I'm back with Season 3 of On Drugs. And this time, it's going to get personal. I don't know who Sober Jeff is. I don't even know if I like that guy. On Drugs is available now wherever you get your podcasts. Ratna Almeidvar has spent much of her life advocating for immigrants and refugees,

including until about a month ago as an independent senator. Ratna, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. On a personal level, how did this hit you when you heard that the federal government was putting the brakes on this private refugee sponsorship program? You know, it did fill me with a great deal of dismay because as John and Natasha talked about their experiences, it took me back to my own experiences in 2016 when we pulled together a ragtag group of 20 Canadians to sponsor Syrian refugees and we had exactly the same experience. Not only were the families rescued from insecurity and precarity, but provided a chance. But also the knock-on effects on Canadians, on us, were enormous. And so I heard this announcement with a sinking heart.

But I do want to inject some facts into the conversation, Matt. The private sponsorship program is not being stopped by the government of Canada. I believe the government still wants to bring 23,000 private sponsors, refugees in 2024 and 2025 into Canada, they are taking a pause on new applications because there is a backlog of applications. That speaks to the popularity of the program. Mark Miller has spoken about that, the immigration minister. We asked to talk to him. He wasn't available to speak with us this morning, but have a listen as to why he says and why he uses that word pause on the private refugee sponsorships until at least the end of next year. The commitment's still there to work with people.

I mean, there are things that we can't plan for, and Canada always has to have an open heart, but we also have to be realistic with Canadians and the amount of people that we can take in and properly serve with the resources that we have. So there's a few things in that, and it picks up on something that you said. What's wrong with pausing a program that's backlogged?

There's something like 90,000 private refugee applications that are being processed right now. It makes good business sense. When the pipeline is clogged, you take a pause, you clean it up, and before you start it flowing again. But we're not talking about business, Matt. We're talking about business. Matt, we're talking about human lives who are stranded, who live in precarity, whose children may not be able to go to school. They may not get any health care. These are very, very difficult situations. of that one year for refugee families all over the world is significant. The Senate Human Rights Committee just put out a report that was tabled last week saying that forced global displacement is a crisis and Canada should make that its top foreign policy priority and should increase the number of private sponsorships. I understand the minister's

imperative to retool the immigration numbers writ large, but I so wish he had protected the refugee numbers because of the implication on the lives of people far away from us. The minister said Canada always has to have an open heart. This comes just weeks after he announced that the number of permanent residents admitted to this country will be reduced by 20% over the next few years. What do you make of that phrase, Canada has to have an open heart? Do you think that this government is still committed to welcoming newcomers

and welcoming refugees in particular? I continue to believe that Canadians at large are still open to welcoming newcomers and in particular refugees. Why do you believe that now in the conversations that are happening when it comes to their stresses on housing and on employment and others? And it seems like there's a change in that conversation around immigration in this country. So why do you still believe that the Canadian public has an open heart? in this country. So why do you still believe that the Canadian public has an open heart? I believe, first of all, that this whole conversation about housing and Canada being full is finding a misplaced target on the most vulnerable people of the world, in this case,

refugees. Those problems are problems of our own making. And it is a false equivalence to equate one with the other. Public opinion, Matt, is public opinion. It shifts and changes with time. I would like to see the same polls six months from now and what public opinion will say once we have sort of shifted the ship a little. There is no doubt in my mind that the numbers of temporary residents far exceeded our capacity. And now that we have pulled back on them, hopefully we will come to calmer waters and Canadians will find their real soul again on issues of compassion and an open heart. How do you think we got here? compassion and an open heart. How do you think we got here? I mean, the Trudeau government in part was elected in 2015 while vocally supporting the arrival of refugees fleeing the war in Syria. There was that heartbreaking image of Alan Kurdi on the beach that changed the conversation in this

country in many ways. And to your point, the knockoff effect of that was that we saw strangers and friends and church groups and individuals and streets and buildings come together to try to figure out how to get people here and support people here. How did we get to where we are now, do you think? This is a longer conversation than I can have on the radio with you, but I do think it started with COVID to some extent, where the government opened up temporary residence for workers and international foreign students to meet certain demands, didn't think far ahead, didn't think about the co-relationship with capacity. And I think it all went completely off the rails, which doesn't mean we can't bring it back to the rails. I believe the political

imperative is there. The government needs to do something. More importantly, it needs to be seen to do something. But I think that this particular announcement around the pause on taking in new applications is a misstep. In fact, you know, Natasha was right on. You can pause applications or you can increase resources. It's a small program. I mean, we only bring in, the government plans to bring in 58,000 refugees under different programs this year. 23,000 will be privately sponsored. That's not a large figure in the scheme of things. Let's remember, we're a very large country with a very small population

as well. So I think this is something we could have carved out and we would have managed. And I certainly hope that this pause will not last a year, that the government will find the gumption and the guts and the resources to retool very quickly. And one of the reasons the backlog exists is because the requirements for private sponsorships have become increasingly more complex. We filled out a 60-page application in 2016. Thank God we had a lawyer on our team. In the meantime, community groups and sponsor groups are challenged with more and more and more and more paperwork, which takes longer time to review.

I hope the government comes back to its senses. And after this pause, we will not only have an enhanced program, but a more responsive program. I have to let you go, but just very briefly, if what you're talking about doesn't come to pass, and if, I mean, Natasha's worried that the pause is not a pause, that this is a way to wind down this program, what do we as a country lose? program. What do we as a country lose? We lose a jewel in our crown. We have trumpeted ourselves the success of this program globally. We're actively engaged even today in replicating and helping countries like the US, the UK, Germany, Spain, Argentina develop their own versions of this program, I find it very hard to believe that we would walk away from this amazing Canadian nation-building innovation.

Ratna, we'll leave it there. It's good to speak with you as always. Thank you very much. Thank you. Ratna Amidvar, as a former independent senator from Ontario, now a public policy fellow at Toronto Metropolitan University. Were you, like many Canadians involved in the private sponsorship program in this country? Perhaps you came to this country through the private sponsorship program. We would love to hear from you on what you have heard this morning. You can email us thecurrentatcbc.ca. For more CBC Podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.