The Current - What's it like to be a new grad and apply to 1000+ jobs

Episode Date: October 7, 2025

Youth unemployment in Canada is at its highest rate in over a decade, over 14%. How a weakening Canadian economy and fewer entry-level job jobs have left Canadian young people at loose ends. We hear from two young grads on their frustrating job hunt — and Mikal Skuterud, professor of economics at the University of Waterloo about what it will take to turn it around.

Did you know that it was once illegal to shop on Sundays? That's true for when I was born. I remember this, and I'm not that old. I'm not, okay? Leave me alone. Anyway, I'm Phelan Johnson, and I host See You in Court, a new podcast about the cases that changed Canada and the ordinary people who drove that change. From the drugstore owner who defied the Lord's Day, to the migma man who defended his treaty right to fish, to the gay teacher who got fired and fought back. Find and follow, see you in court, wherever you get your. your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast.

I was always told that, especially in like this line of industry for computers, that I would have something lined up right away, and I wouldn't really have to worry about the job finding. Well, it turns out that you did have to worry about the job finding. Casper Salsman graduated with honors from an IT program at Nova Scotia Community College. I would try to keep applying to places and apply. or whatever I saw. 95% of them didn't end with anything coming back to me.

The other 5% it was them saying that they're going forward with another candidate. Eventually it gets pretty demoralizing and every day kind of felt like a slog. Every day just waking up. Kind of depressed to wake up and having to realize you have to go through it again and just kind of waiting to go back to sleep, basically. That went on for eight months. Casper has only now just landed a job in his field. his story will resonate with many young Canadians, and their parents, presumably, too.

Youth unemployment in Canada is at its highest level in over a decade, besides a few months during the pandemic. Sammy Rashid graduated just over a year ago from the University of Toronto's Rotman Commerce Program. He's in Toronto. And Gabby Curta graduated from Sate, the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology, with a legal assistant diploma. She's in Calgary, and they both have struggled to find work. Good morning to you both. Hi. Good morning. Sammy, does that sound familiar what Casper was talking about there?

Yeah, absolutely. I would say I spent a lot of mornings just dreading, dreading getting up and putting in another eight hours of planning jobs. Gabby, do you know that feel of dread? For sure, yeah. Tell me a bit more about that, Gabby. I mean, what, when you graduated, what did you think was going to happen? Casper talked about how, you know, the job finding wasn't really going to be a thing because he came out with a good, a good, a good, piece of education and what seemed like a path into a job. Is that what you thought was going to happen? Totally. I was told that once I graduated, it wouldn't be hard for me to find a job at all. You know, legal assistance are always in need to be hired. People are always looking for more legal assistants to bring on. And it's just been a few months of applying every day

and nothing. Sammy, what about for you? How confident were you when you were in school that when you graduated in your field, you would find a job that seemed perfectly tailored to what you had been studying? To be honest, I felt really confident. I've been a high performing student my whole life and I was not even to speak about high school, but in university I was in multiple clubs. I did multiple work positions, internships, and I had, like, blown expectations out of the water at several of them. My manager told me she'd have my back once I graduate, and then the market, I guess, hasn't been good, and it took me a really long time to get out of that. You described your job search as unrelenting. Tell me a little bit about that and what it

was like what you were doing every day to try and land a job. Yeah. So for a long time, I, I guess for the first six months or so, I had kind of just been applying to the jobs that I felt suited me best and going here and there and hoping for the best. But after six months, I looked at myself and I thought, this is really, this is really bad. Like, nothing is working. And I had already been attending networking events and things like that. And so I started to book lots and lots of one-on-one meetings. Oftentimes it was cold outreach. Like, they don't know who I am and I don't really know.

know who they are. Dozens of those, going to networking events more and more, applying to jobs day and night, really, like, as soon as they come out, emailing my managers, it was really doing everything that everyone was telling me to do. How many applications do you think you put out? I'm pretty confident the number has crossed 1,100. 1,100. And how many of those applications would you have heard back about? Maybe a dozen. And most of them, there would just be radio silence. You wouldn't hear anything at all.

Yeah, it was mostly radio silence and occasionally, you know, like an email one month later being told that the application process is closed or something like that. Gabby, for you, what was your experience like looking for a job? It's been quite difficult. Most people don't get back to me at all. The few who do get back to me are mostly saying they're going in another direction. with a different candidate. I'd say that since the beginning of August, I've applied for about 70 jobs. Are you still looking for work in the field that you train for?

Are you still looking to work as a legal assistant? I am, but I've also been applying for other jobs, reception, other legal administrative jobs, just because I've been getting nothing. What does it like to put out all those applications and hear very little back? It's very defeating. You know, you put in all this time. time and effort, cover letters, all that, and you hear just absolutely nothing from them. Sammy, you said that the job market completely broke you. Why did you use that phrase?

Yeah. It was really, you know, like I'm someone who has a, you know, I guess a story, a storied pass when it comes to mental health problems. And, you know, once you're, once you're out of a job, if you don't have benefits covering you, like, you're kind of on your own. it's hard to find mental health support and beyond that like the actual process itself 1100 applications is a lot i think i've been really working at getting a job day in day out for uh it took me about a year to get something and there's no end in sight like until you actually sign a contract there there have been many points where i thought i was going to land something and then it just didn't work out at the very last steps it really just it's hard to

live your life when you don't have money, you don't have direction, and it seems like all the doors are just closed. You said you don't have money. I mean, that's a thing here as well. What does that mean for your finances? If you're unemployed for a year, you come out of school, and you think you're going to land a job and it just doesn't happen. Yeah. Well, I've been lucky that my parents have been supporting me a little bit, but I do know, like many people, especially those that came from other countries, that were also really good students and did work placements. They've had to return to their home countries and the opportunities really are shut for them as well. So there has been some good news in the last little bit, right?

Yes. Thankfully, I have been able to land a contract, although I had hoped that I would find something full-time. I do have a six-month contract for now. Congratulations. You must feel relieved. Thank you very much. Yes, it's definitely a step up from where I was, even if it's not where I expected

I'd be. Gabby, what about for you? Where have things ended up for you? So I've just been working part-time retail for now until I can find something in my field. What has that been like for you? I mean, it's a job, but it's not the job that you were thinking of. No, it's definitely not. And it's a little depressing, I would say.

You know, it's definitely not what I wanted to do. But, I mean, there's really no other option at this point. Do you allow yourself to think about the future? in terms of where you might want to be six months or a year down the road? Yes, but it's hard to think of the future right now because it is so bleak. That's what it feels like. It feels like it feels like I'm putting in all of this effort for nothing. Do you have a sense, Sammy, as to why this is happening?

Why do you think it's so hard for you and people of your generation who went to school, trained for jobs that you thought were going to be there. Why is it so difficult for you to land those jobs? You know, it really pushes my buttons when other generations say that we're doing something wrong. To be completely honest, I feel that it's coming to everyone's attention now that Canada's economic growth has been either overstated or inflated in ways that are not sustainable, along with trade tensions, like things are really coming to a head right now. and I believe the people who are youngest are often in the same group as those who are most vulnerable when it comes to taking their first steps into a real career and it really doesn't seem to matter if you're the best student or if you have lots of prior experience they really just want someone

who is fit and capable of doing the job as is without training and part of that is also fueled by people who are ahead in their careers being laid off and competing for the same jobs. You said it grinds your gears when you hear people from other generations talk about what you are or aren't doing. What have you heard? Yeah, well, I've heard a lot of people, especially I would say, like people born before the 70s, I feel like they grew up in a completely different economic reality when it comes to just like finding a job and the amount of respect that employers give you, it really hasn't been an employee's market for many,

if I'm not mistaken, for a few decades aside from post-COVID. So I've heard a lot of things, just people telling me to do the things that I've already been doing and almost like not believing that I'm really putting my full effort in or that I must be making some silly mistake. Gabby, have you heard that as well? I mean, people will talk about, well, this younger generation, you know,

they don't have the drive that's an older generation. had, you know, they're not working as hard as they could. Have you heard some of that? I have definitely, yeah. It's hard to hear that because, of course, all of us are putting in as much effort as we can to get these jobs. And to hear that, it definitely is sad. What would you say to other people, just finally, Gabby, who are in your circumstance? This is a conversation that's happening across the country. People who, as I said, went to school, thought that there would be a job that they had trained for coming out of that program and it turns it like you they might be working retail they might be working a different kind of job or maybe not working at all what would you say

to other people who would find themselves in your circumstances and would be discouraged like you are i would say just keep keep applying it seems like you are putting in all these applications for nothing but i think hopefully soon something will come out of it sammy what would you say yeah i mean I really just want people to know that a lot of times it will not be your fault. You know, I'm sure there are tons of talented students listening to this right now. And some of you may be incredibly technically proficient and the market just is not recognizing that. And to be honest, it's really sad that there's nothing really you can do except just keep applying and doing your best. But I will say that no matter what it is, everything comes to an end.

And if you keep going, I think you'll be all right. Having put in 1,100 applications myself, I will say, like, you know, to be honest, I've heard of people putting in even more, so just keep going. 1100 is a huge number. I wish you both the very best of luck, and I'm glad to have the chance to talk to you. Thank you very much and take care. Thank you very much. Sammy Rashid has a commerce degree from the University of Toronto's Rotman Commerce Program. Gabby Kerta graduated from Sait as a legal assistant, and as you heard, is now working in retail.

All right, it is October. It is officially spooky season, which is great timing because there is a new Canadian thriller series out. It's called Wayward, and I think we should be talking about it. My name is Alameen Abdul Mahmoud, and I love pop culture. And this week on my podcast promotion, I called up some of my favorite critics to get into the show about a school for troubled teens, and then things start to go wrong. It is just wonderful. And it's bringing something new and interesting to the thriller genre.

For that episode and a whole lot more, you can find and follow Kamau. Motion with Elamina Abdu Mahmoud on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. As of August, the youth unemployment rate in Canada was 14.5%. That's the highest. It's been since 2010, apart for some months during the pandemic. The employment rate, which is the number of young Canadians who are actively working, is less than 54%, the lowest it's been since the late 1990s, also excluding the dip of the pandemic. McCall Scudorood is a professor of economics at the University of Waterloo. He has been following the youth unemployment trend. Good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. When you listen to Gabby and Sammy, what goes through your

mind? 1,100 applications getting just a handful of people getting back to you and most of them are saying there's no job for you. Well, I'm revisiting my youth. This is precisely the reason why I went to grad school is the task of trying to find a job in the summers made it very clear to me that that the best place to be was hiding in a university investing in more skills. I hid there for 11 years. What is going on right now? Why is it so difficult for young people to find jobs? Jobs that they are trained to do, but don't seem to be there for them.

So, I mean, the number one reason, I think your guests, Sammy and Gabby, are right. We're in a business cycle. Coming out of the pandemic, the Canadian economy was very hot. markets were very labor markets were very tight unemployment rates were hitting historical lows not just for older people but also for younger people and we're just coming off of that i mean it was also matched with a lot of price inflation that the government that the central bank deliberately you know was trying to cool off the economy and and that's working uh you know price inflation has dropped dramatically and and along with that comes a you know weakening of the

economy and that means a lot less job creation. Do you think is it more difficult to land a job now for those people than it has been in past? So I, that's really the question. As I was listening to your guests, you know, I don't want to be Pollyanna about the challenges they're facing because I really did. And maybe you did as well, Matt. Through the 1990s, unemployment rates were consistently through the decade were equal or higher than they are now for young people. So, you know, I know what it feels like. It's incredibly discouraging. Young people are not lazy. I teach 780 first-year students at the University of Waterloo this term. I talk to a lot of them. They are as ambitious and hardworking as any generation has ever been, I can assure you, at least from what I hear. So I understand the challenges,

but I think it's also important to put where we're at in perspective. And, you know, I'd encourage people to look at the data. And the reality is that, you know, 14.5% unemployment in a business downturn is not exceptional. You know, we've seen this before. In fact, you know, you go back to 2014 and youth unemployment rates weren't very different than they are now. There are a couple of factors that people would point to to say these times are different. One of them is the rise in international students over the last couple of years. The chief economist for BMO, Doug Porter, wrote in a recent note to his clients, the past few years have seen a extreme growth in the 15 to 24 category, largely due to the influx of international students.

Unsurprisingly, when the youth population swells, it tends to drive up the youth jobless rate relative to others. Has the increase in international students and temporary foreign workers tightened the job market? Well, if anything, it would have slackened the labor markets, you know, created more supply than demand. You know, the reality is, is that nobody knows exactly how much. increased immigration has contributed to this increase in youth unemployment that we're seeing. But it's very hard to believe that it's the main factor. The main factor is quite simply that there's an awful lot less job creation. We coming out of the pandemic hit record level job

vacancies in the country. You may remember the headlines at one point, maybe in 2022, the summer 2022, we had one million job vacancies in this country. We are, now down to below half a million. That is unprecedented. We've never seen such a swing in Canadian history. That clearly is going to mean that for new labor market entrance, whether those are new immigrants or whether those are young people who are entering the labor market for the first time, it's going to be much, much harder to get that first job. And that's what we're seeing. The increase in unemployment we're seeing is not people losing their jobs. It's people struggling to get those first jobs.

One of the things you're up against in trying to get that first job, this is the other point, is it's not other applicants. Increasingly, it's artificial intelligence. That companies may be using AI in those roles where they might have had a junior employee because you can do it, as they say, with much more efficiency. The after-effective efficiency is often that those jobs are not available to those younger people. Do you know if AI has played a significant role in this? There is a tremendous amount of interest in this question.

there's a tremendous amount of research starting to happen. As usually happens, these narratives tend to get ahead of the evidence. And, Matt, I have not seen. I mean, if any evidence I've seen, it is that Canada, the take-up, the adoption of these new technologies has been quite sluggish in Canada. I really am very skeptical that the increase in youth unemployment we're seeing has much to do with artificial intelligence at this point. Most applications go through sites like LinkedIn or Indeed now.

I just wonder whether those sites Indeed and LinkedIn, if that has an impact on how people land jobs, because it's, you know, there might be AI that's used in terms of sorting through and sifting through those applications. But if you're using an online portal, does that change who lands jobs and how? those jobs are given out? Well, that's, I had not anticipated that question, Matt, but that's one of the chapters of my PhD dissertation was looking at the effect of the internet using very early data from the 1990s on what it does to unemployment.

And I mean, what we know for sure is that if you think of unemployment as kind of this game of musical chairs, of matching people with chairs with the chairs of the jobs, what it does you can think about the internet is just speeding up the music. And so the friction and that matching process is reduced substantially by the internet. So, you know, the lot of the research that exists says that if anything, that structural unemployment will tend to be lower as a result of these technologies. It's hard to think that these things are going to exacerbate youth unemployment. What do you think the cost of this is? If you have a cohort of people, a generation of people who go to school with a belief that when they come out of those programs,

they will graduate and be able to lend work. And they can't. And they put out thousands of applications. They end up moving back perhaps with their parents if they can or trying to find other work in fast food or what have you. What do you think the cost of that is? I have two sons in their early 20s. So I'm paying maybe more attention to this, these kinds of sentiments of youth today than other, some of my colleagues. I'm very sympathetic. And in part, maybe because I talk to a lot of these young people, you know, I think there's something unprecedented in this generation of youth. You know, the unemployment is high. I think you mentioned this technology.

I think the technology like AI can have certainly will have impacts into the future, but they're incredibly uncertain how they will affect labor markets. Incredibly. There will be winners and losers and trying to forecast who the winners and losers are is going to be really hard to do. They're, you know, I am very, I am very sensitive to the anxieties that that young people are feeling now. Housing markets are like they've never been. So although, you know, I reflected on, on my youth and high unemployment and challenges finding jobs, I think there's something much more challenging for young people today. And I think to be too pollyana about that is, you know, especially policymakers, could be something that could backfire.

You're paying attention to it, but are you worried about it? Are you worried about the long-term implications of something like this? I'm not worried about my own kids, but as a generation, I think there are reasons to be cognizant of what these challenges are that young people are facing. And the reality is that a lot of policies have these kinds of distributional effects where the winners and losers are playing off across generations, whether that's housing policies, immigration policies, And the reality is that the voters who seem to be able to influence policy more are the boomers and maybe now, the generation X, my generation. And the people who get lost, whether it's because they don't vote or I don't know, I'm not a political scientist. But it does seem like often the policies are benefiting the older cohorts. What advice just finally, and I'm not talking about your kids, but what advice would you give to the,

those younger people who find themselves in the position that Sammy and Gabby are, that they've done, they went to school, they've worked hard, they've come out, they've put out the applications, and the fish aren't biting. What would you say to them? I wouldn't say anything different than what Gabby, how Gabby responded to the same question, Matt. She said, you know, you just got to stay calm and carry on, right? Invest in your skills. You know, that's the absolute number one thing you can do.

Do you see that market turning around? I mean, they can do that work. But do you see the market turning around so that it will be more likely that they will be able to land something in their field? Absolutely. This is a business cycle. We are in a cycle, economy cycle. You know, we saw this in the early 90s. We saw it in 2008. We saw it in 2014. When unemployment rates go up, when economies weaken, the people who feel that the most are the new labor market entrance. because what's happening is the jobs aren't being created. And if you don't have your already have a job, you're going to struggle the most. And that will turn around. I'm very optimistic because history tells us it will. So, yes, I think really investing in your skills, making yourself special in a labor market in the sense that you have scarce skills that other people don't have, that's your best bet. McCall Scuderuteroot, we'll leave it there.

Good to talk to you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Matt. Michael Scuderroot is a professor of economics at the University of Waterloo. You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cBC.ca slash podcasts.