The Current - Who picks the next Dalai Lama? Why China and Tibet are at odds

Episode Date: July 11, 2025

As the Dalai Lama turns 90, the question of who will succeed him is reigniting tensions between Tibet and China. We speak with Sherap Therchin of the Canada-Tibet Committee about why this could lead to two rival Dalai Lamas—and what that means for Tibetan identity, faith, and global politics.

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awareness, fighting stigmas and loneliness, education, or empowering people to become more active. Novo Nordisk is supporting local changemakers because it takes more than medicine to live a healthy life. Leave your armor at the door. Watch this paid content on CBC Gem. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current Podcast. The celebrations have been taking place to mark the Dalai Lama's 90th birthday and this milestone has reignited the conversation about who will be his successor and how they'll be chosen.

The spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism is a Nobel laureate and one of the world's most influential spiritual figures. He announced his plans for a successor last week. In accordance with all the requests by my devotees and students regarding my reincarnation, I am affirming that the institution of the Dalai Lama will continue. The Dalai Lama says the choice of his successor lies solely with him and his senior Tibetan monks. But the Chinese government insists it will be the one to approve the next leader. Tensions over this have been building and there is speculation that there could be a

scenario where there are two rival Dalai Lamas. Shahrukh Tarchin is the executive director of the Canada-Tibet Committee, which aims to build public awareness in Canada of the human rights and democratic freedoms of Tibetan people. He grew up in Tibetan refugee communities in Nepal and came to Canada in 2015. Shahrukh Tarchin, good morning. Good morning, Megan. Thank you for having me on this show.

It's a pleasure. Why has this conversation about successors come to a head now? Well, His Holiness the Dalai Lama has said in September 2011 that he was going to beginning the statement came out and reaffirms that the institution on Dalai Lama would continue and the responsibility for identifying the reincarnation would rest exclusively with the Gandin Pudong, which is his private office of the Dalai Lama. As for the timing of why this statement came out at this point of time, one is we are increasingly seeing claims from the Chinese government that they would have the right to approve

and appoint the succession of Tibetan Buddhist leaders, including His Holiness the Dalai Lama. And we have also seen the actual implementation of Chinese government imposition of state approval for the high-ranking Lama in case of pension Lama. So that's an important reason. And also, as His Holiness is aging, although he has said that he is going to live for another 30 to 40 years, which we hope and pray for. But this is to ensure a smooth transition and succession without any foreign interference,

especially not from China. Right. I mean, when the Dalai Lama says the tradition will continue, what does that mean for how he would have his successor chosen? So traditionally, the officer, his private officer, Gandhi Podang, the senior monks from Gandhi Podang would consult with Tibetan Buddhist leaders from all four sects of Tibetan Buddhism and pre-Buddhist religion of bone. And then also, you know, with the oath-bound Dharma protectors, the religion protectors,

it would involve divination, interview, memory testing. And so there are a series of- And this is of young boys, is that right? Yes, yes. So in case of the current 14th Alailama, series of such tests were conducted before they identified Tenzin Gyatso, which is the real name of the current 14th Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama is a title that was offered to the Tibetans' highest

spiritual leader. So there are a series of different tests that would take place, and it would, as His Holiness has stated in his most recent statement as well, would be the responsibility would lie with his office, Ganden Poodam. And that's very important for us because as China continues to make claims that they would have the right to point the next Dharwama. Danielle Pletka Right. Now the Chinese government through its Canadian embassy pointed us to a statement saying, and I'm quoting here, that China protects the proper practice of the tradition of reincarnation

of living Buddhas, including the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama reincarnation must proceed in strict compliance with established religious rituals, historical conventions, and national laws and regulations. What do you make of China's latest comments on the issue? Well, this is very similar to the many other statements that's been made from China over the past many years, especially since 1992. So what has happened and what many, including the international community, is aware of is that China as a communist state has consistently denounced and vilified its own Islamic Dalai L, for decades. And anyone, even the mere possession of his photos,

Tibetans inside Tibet, mere possession of Dalai Lama's photo would land them in prisons. And now we are seeing officially atheist state announcing that they would have the right to identify the reincarnation of a lama, a high Buddhist spiritual teacher who they have been denouncing as a separatist ever since the illegal occupation in Tibet.

And so we're not surprised by the tone and the language they have used in terms of claiming the right. Just the frequency of such statements, such claims have increased a lot in the last 10 years, I think. So it also to me, it also indicates the growing insecurity from the Chinese government side. For us Tibetans, it's a matter of our faith, our trust, which cannot be interrupted with just some bureaucratic and bizarre legal imposition. And a good example is really coming back to the case of penchant lama. They have, of course, as you know, appointed their own version of leavened penchant lama.

AMT – Who is, who is what, the faith's number two leader? RS – Yes, penchant lama is considered as, widely considered as the number two leader in Tibetan Buddhism. In 1989, when the 10th pension lama died, the current 14 dollar lama recognized a six-year-old boy named Gendun Chökyi Nyingma as the 11th pension Lama. Three days later, excuse me, three days later, he was abducted and the world has not seen or heard him since then. That was in 1995. In 2018, a Chinese government delegation from what they call the Tibet-Ottawa region came to Ottawa and testified before the Foreign Affairs Committee. A member of the committee asked the delegation on whereabouts of the pension lama who was abducted, the Tibetan pension lama who was recognized by the His Holiness

Dharam, not the one that China has installed as the pretender. The response was that he does not wish to be disturbed. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I want to ask you about that because you could be facing a scenario where there are two Dalai Lamas. China could possibly do that with the Dalai Lama. What impact do you think that would have on the faith? I don't think there would be any significant impact on the faith because faith is something

that cannot be forced or imposed. It comes from one's belief. And for us, it's basically the same person, the Dalai Lama or any you know high-ranking Tibetan Buddhist leader transitioning into the next body from one body to another it's a transfer of a soul so basically you know we for us it's a we would recognize Rexpec the one that is chosen by the team that is chosen by the 14th Dalai Lama. So the question about any changes in the faith, it's not there. But the challenge is definitely there's going to be one, the most likely scenario is that there's one going to be recognized by Ganden-Potong office, the private office of

Dalai Lama and the one a pretender would be installed just as they did with the pensioned Lama. Thank you very much for speaking with me today. Thank you. I've been speaking with Sharap Tarkin, who is the executive director of the Canada-Tibet committee. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.