The Current - Why Alberta separatists want to leave Canada

Episode Date: April 10, 2026

The stage is being set for a polarizing debate in Alberta. Separatists say they have the signatures they need to trigger a referendum on leaving Canada.  As the stakes rise, CBC’s Allison Dempster takes a closer look at who and what is driving the separatist movement — and who is pushing back in her documentary.

All right, I got a big question. How do you feel about aging? Maybe you've got a fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of change. Because certainly how we look starts to change. The actor Amanda Pete has given it a lot of thought over the year. She's been in the public eyes since the 90s. She'll tell you why her new film Fantasy Life has her thinking about validation,

about vanity, and what she thinks about cosmetic surgery and whether or not to get it. You'll hear that conversation now. Just search for Q with Tom Power, wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC. podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. The stage is being set for a polarizing debate here in Alberta. Separatists say they have the signatures they need to trigger a referendum on leaving Canada. Since the province lowered the threshold last year, they only need about 178,000 people

to sign that petition. Elections, Alberta, will still need to verify the petition, but as the stakes rise, we wanted to take a closer look at who and what is driving the separatist movement. and who's pushing back. The CBC's Alison Dempster brings us her documentary. Are you having a drink? On Saturdays, bottoms up pub in Calgary is packed with card players. They come monthly for cribbage and yuker luncheons. A Blue Jays game is on TV.

Deep-fried mac and cheese is on special. And you can get a pickled egg for a buck in a quarter. Dwayne and Katie Fillmore have owned the pub for almost 25 years. I've met a ton of amazing people, so I'm pretty grateful for that. A couple times a week, the pub hosts a small booth where people can sign the Alberta separatists' petition. We haven't had great big lineups out the door, but we've definitely had... A steady line of people that come in. For Dwayne and Katie, publicly attaching their names and business to the cause, wasn't a hard decision.

It should have the right to vote on what you believe in, and that's why we brought a hitter, to Arbor. I'm all good with it. If I believe in something, I'll go full force ahead. The Fillmore's believe Alberta is being held back by the federal government. This is our elbows up from Alberta. But slogans aside, the issues that weigh on them in their day-to-day lives will probably sound familiar to a lot of Canadians. They worry about their kids and grandkids being able to afford to build lives of their own. They're concerned about Katie's 80-year-old mother who's on a wait list for a hip replacement.

They see people falling behind. We have a couple that are living out front of 7-Eleven. They have like a box, and then they put a tarp over top, and that's where they're sleeping. They were sleeping there this morning. It's sad to see. Like, we've brought them in and fed them fries and gravy and given them a drink.

We know they have no money. It's getting bad. You know, a lot of people, a lot more people are going to the food banks because they can't afford groceries. How would separating from Canada fix that? How would it fix it? Well, I know that Alberta make a lot of money in their business and oil in a lot of the industries that we have here,

which is great for Alberta. A lot of provinces don't have that abilities, and that's where you come back to where the equalization payments and how much taxes are paid in Alberta, and where that all goes to the federal government. And what the government spends our money on is a big factor. with a lot of people too. They don't agree on what the government is spending money on.

Us doing this referendum is our only chance at making a change for anything. Dwayne and Katie want Alberta independence. But Katie says if that fails, she's open to the idea of the province becoming part of the United States. I'd probably be for it, because we definitely can't keep living the way we're living. Do you know what I mean? Not that I want it, but which one's worse?

For the Fillmore's, the separatist movement holds answers. But others who work at the pub have questions. Is it really any better anywhere else? Lynn Biarnison is the kitchen manager. Like, seriously, is it any better anywhere else? The grass isn't always greener on the other side. As far as joining the United States, absolutely not. I would move out of Alberta in a heartbeat if that happened.

Lynn says before the pub became a signing location for the separatist petition, and the film war is called to ask her about it. I'm like, sure, everybody's entitled to their opinion. I agree with the fact that they are trying very hard to do everything to get the government's attention, to have them hold themselves accountable. I agree with that very much. I disagree with the separatism part of it.

In between hands, the Uker players, give the idea of a referendum on leaving Canada mixed reviews. There's no way you can separate. None. So stop wasting. more money on it. Like, what do you use the money for something good, like the teachers or the nurses or whatever?

I don't know about separation. Quebec tried that once. So I don't know, that's a bit dramatic, but we should get more for what we give. And I'm tired of supporting the other provinces. I don't want to give. I don't want to give, give, give, give. I don't want to give, give, give, give, you know?

It's enough give, give, give, give. I hate it. Yeah, I think a lot of people sign up with no really understanding what exactly is all about. they have one issue in mind or something that's kicking them off about the government. So they sign it. They don't really want to separate, but they sign the petition anyways. People have to do their homework on those types of issues.

I think it's a good idea. Put some pressure on that carne. At least I hope they accomplish that much anyways, I hope. I don't believe the separation will ever happen. A recent Angus Reid poll, found fewer than 10% of Albertans say they'll definitely vote to separate. One in five Albertans are leaning towards separation. They don't actually want to leave.

They want to send the rest of Canada message. University of Alberta political scientist, Jared Wesley, calls them strategic separatists. I liken it to, they feel like a jilted lover. The feeling of disappointment, of disenchantment is ubiquitous across the political spectrum in Alberta. Wesley says that sentiment is a built-in feature of Alberta politics. It's been around for decades. But this time around, he sees something different animating the dedicated separatists. The hardcore ones, the ones actually are committed to leaving Confederation,

but they honestly feel like they're falling behind. That somehow the rest of Canada, the rest of the world, people in other occupations are somehow getting ahead, that they're falling behind their own expectations of where they would be at this point in their lives or where their parents were at this point in their lives. there's a sense of status loss that's motivating not just separatism here in Alberta, but other right-wing populist movements, including MAGA and the United States and the Brexit movement in the UK. So it's better to understand, I think, the modern separatist movement in Alberta in the context of far-right populism than it is in old-school Western alienation.

All right, I got a big question. How do you feel about aging? Maybe you've got a fear of death, fear of the unknown, fear of change. Because certainly how we look starts to change. The actor Amanda Pete has given it a lot of thought over the year. She's been in the public eye since the 90s. She'll tell you why her new film Fantasy Life has her thinking about validation, about vanity, and what she thinks about cosmetic surgery and whether or not to get it.

You'll hear that conversation now. Just search for Q with Tom Power, wherever you get your podcasts. The Angus Report also looked at how Albertans are doing their homework on separation. It found those who would vote to leave are getting most of their information from alternative media and conversations with friends and family. Another source? Town halls held by the Alberta Independence Campaigners. Sign the petition if you haven't already.

Thankfully, many people have today. And volunteer to help. On a snowy Saturday at the Lions Club in Cochran, about 200 people have come out to a stay-free Alberta event. A wide selection of merchandise is selling quickly, Hoodies with a Republic of Alberta Crest, T-shirts that read, Dear Ottawa, it's not us, it's you, and stickers that say,

fringe minority choosing to stand. The speakers who are headlining the event are well known. They've been on the circuit for many months now. Do you agree that the province of Alberta should cease to be a part of Canada to become an independent state? Mitch Sylvester is leading the petition drive for an Alberta independence referendum.

He owns a sporting goods store in Bonneville, northeast of Edmonton. He's also the United Conservative Party constituency president for the area. They're consciously suppressing us so they can break our economy. Sylvester's presentation lasts for more than an hour. It's steeped in the sentiment that Alberta isn't respected for what it contributes to the country with its oil and gas

resources. The grievances with Ottawa are many, from pipeline politics to equalization to immigration. So if we can't afford to have children, Are we okay with them replacing that with people from another part of the world? No. And that's, I mean, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with people from another part of the world, but I think that people want to have their own children. Sylvester insists he's not against immigration.

He says he's against uncontrolled immigration. The separatist blueprint, called the Value of Freedom, includes a new screening program for those without citizenship. If they arrived in Alberta after 2015, they'd have to re-qualify to stay under a new point system. It lists a number of criteria, including, quote, no experimental MRNA injections. Up to 106,000 people could be deported,

according to an estimate in the document. A lot of gray-haired, blue hair, no-haer people are there. During the question and answer period, an audience member asks whether the Alberta independence movement is reaching young people. Sylvester responds saying young men are, in fact, their strongest demographic. Women, not so much.

So our job is going to be to bring the girls over to understand that it's going to be okay and we'll take care of them like we shouldn't be doing in the first place. That was Jeff Rath, legal counsel for Stay Free Alberta, with a joke that husbands not drive their wives to the polling station if they're voting against separation. At the event, Rath is introduced as Canada's Donald Trump. He's kind of kicks people off. But, you know, I find him so darn refreshing and motivating.

Would you just... Rath boasts about meetings with unnamed U.S. officials in recent months and the reaction from BC Premier David E.B. It was called at treason. And let's look at, you know, a little Premier Eby, who got so upset when Mitch and Dennis and I went down to Washington, D.C., to talk to our friends in the United States about the aspirations of Alberta for a free and independent country

The group was seeking a possible $500 billion line of credit from the U.S. Treasury to help bank roll a new country if they're successful in a referendum. An official with the U.S. State Department confirmed the meetings, saying the department regularly meets with civil society types, but added that no commitments were made. When I reached Sylvester later, he said the $500 billion line of credit was part of what he calls a casual conversation. There was no deals made there. There was no promises made there. there was not that. And actually there was no support offered. And we're actually looking to see what they felt about Alberta independence. And the actual truth of the matter is they're very excited to have a partner in a northern border

that basically thinks like the current administration there that's more conservative than the liberal. At their petition signing events, Sylvester and Rath pitched the movement's fiscal plan, and the benefits they say people will enjoy with Ottawa out of the picture. We're going to eliminate federal income tax because we're not going to get $15 billion a year to Quebec anymore, right? The doubling oil production is just going to be a freaking bonus. We're talking that we can absolutely give you a 20% increase in pay on day one by cutting out 20% of federal income tax because we never see it anyway.

For people at the event, the pitch seems to work, the promised tax advantage is a big selling point. How do you see your life being better in an independent Alberta? Well, less taxes. We're not shipping money to Quebec in the Maritimes, and that we'll have more money here. Right away, you're going to drop 20% of the federal tax. That's a 20% raise. When's the last time you got a 20% raise? The numbers separatist leaders are using have been widely critiqued.

The math behind those specific claims does not work out, and it's not even close. Trevor Toome is an economist at the University of Calgary. He says the federal income and sales taxes separatist leaders are promising to scrap amount to about $57 billion. And eliminating that revenue would make it impossible to maintain federal programs, like child benefits and old age security, not to mention the cost of setting up other institutions like a military or diplomatic services. But Mitch Sylvester is not concerned about critiques from economists.

Well, I'm going to share something with you. They can be wrong. All our numbers come from stats can. When we wrote that report, we wrote that consciously thinking, let's do the very lowest possible expectation that we can give people so that we don't over-promise and under-deliver. The questions around the promised tax cuts scratch the surface of the risks economists see with separation.

I asked Tum if there's one thing he wants people to understand in the debate. His answer? Equalization. This is the federal program that's aimed at making sure poorer provinces can maintain similar levels of public services. That is not unique to Canada. You look at almost any federation in the world, even the United States. There's redistribution between states there, and it's from higher-income regions to lower. Alberta doesn't receive equalization transfers. It's been a half province since the mid-1960s.

To be clear, it's not that the province itself pays into equalization. High-income Canadians, wherever they live, pay more. And Alberta happens to have a large number of them. The view that Alberta contributes to the program, the view that it siphons off resource revenues, these are just incorrect views. And one can agree or disagree with the program for sure. But it's not a program that's somehow uniquely,

unfair to Alberta. Many separatist supporters argue the way equalization is distributed is not fair. Quebec will take the most from the program this fiscal year, more than $13 billion. The separatist campaign has a road-tested routine designed

to channel those frustrations. But will it be able to broaden its appeal? A recent Leje poll showed nearly 60% of Albertans are concerned about the separatist movement. And some are mobilizing against it. At a coffee shop, in Calgary, a few dozen people gather

for a forever Canadian meeting. So we will be arming all of you with literature, with information, with websites that you will be able to tap in. Thomas Lukasik is the head of the pro-unity group. It took its own petition around the province last year and got more than 400,000 signatures.

Now it's gearing up for another anti-separation campaign. Contact your family and friends across Canada. We need them too. They need to send messages to us Albertans and telling us how they can't imagine Canada without Alberta. For the forever Canadians gathered at this coffee shop,

the separatist campaign is not to be underestimated. I think we don't have to look much further than Brexit a few years ago to realize that we must take this seriously. It's bad for the country, it's bad for the province, and it's quite clear the Americans are eyeing Alberta. There's never going to be an independent country of Alberta. there's going to be a territory of the United States. Calberta will be just like Puerto Rico.

Well, I campaigned for the petition in the summer and in the fall, and I realized how many people don't know what's going on. So I just want to make sure that everybody is aware of what's going on, what the implications are of separation. I'm also from Quebec originally, and I lived through two campaigns, two referendums, and I saw the harm that it caused. The Calgarians gathered at the coffee shop are bracing for what they fear will be a divisive chapter in Alberta politics.

But they want to make sure the separatist vision of the province isn't the only one that gets heard. One day we will sit back and look back at this campaign and say, thank goodness we did it. Because God damn it, Canada is worth it. Back at the bottoms up pub, a spaghetti lunch is being prepared for the Uker players. Dwayne and Katie Fillmore say their pro-separatist stance isn't hurting business. It's doing the opposite. We've had people come in from all over the province. They tell their friends and their friends come in.

They've never been here before and they come in and they've supported us, which is absolutely astounding and appreciated by us. The Fillmore's are happy to agree to disagree with people at the pub over politics. If you want to sign, sign. If you don't want to sign, you don't have to sign. We're okay either way. But for them, the argument for separating from Canada is simple. Let's see what Alberta can do on its own. A documentary was produced by Alison Dempster based here in Calgary with help from Liz Hoth at CBC's audio documentary unit.

You've been listening to the current podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.