The Current - Why happened to Trump ending the Ukraine war in 24-hours?

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

As the UN General Assembly meets, an end to the war launched by Russia seems more distant than ever. Nobel Peace Prize winner Oleksandra Matviichuk says abandoning hope, and the fight, just for peace is not an option for Ukrainians because too much is at stake.

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The Ukrainian president will be in New York this week for the United Nations General Assembly. He's due to meet on the sidelines with U.S. President Donald Trump, and his aim is to get security guarantees for Ukraine and sanctions against Russia. President Zelensky's trip comes as an end to the war seems more elusive than ever. Despite a high-profile summit in Alaska between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, Putin, there is no ceasefire, no peace talks, and Moscow stands accused of sending drones into Poland and violating Estonian airspace. Like most Ukrainians, Alexandra Matvichuk would like to see an end to the war, but not at any cost. She is head of the Center for Civil

Liberties, the Ukrainian Human Rights Group that won the 2022 Nobel Peace Prize for its investigation of Russian war crimes. And she is with me in studio. Good morning. Good morning. Thank you for being here. Thank you for invitation. U.S. President Donald Trump promised to end this war within 24 hours of taking office. He has been president for eight months. There's still no end in sight. Whose fault do you think that is? It has been already the longest 24 hours in the human history. I think the problem is that we don't understand the real Putin's goal.

Putin started a large-scale war, not because he won't occupy just another piece of Ukrainian land. It's very naive to think that he lost hundreds thousands of Russian soldiers just to occupy Vdivka of Bahmoud. Russians can't find Avdivka and Bahmoud these tiny Ukrainian cities in the map. Putin started large-scale war because he wanted to occupy and destroy the whole Ukraine. And move further. He see Ukraine as a bridge to Europe. His logic is historical. He dreams about his legacy. He wants to forcibly restore Russian empire. And that is why, if we not be anything. to stop Putin in Ukraine, he will go further and attack next European country.

You've said that saying peace means that you need to give up territory is wrong and it's immoral. Yes, because it's not the war about territories. When we speak about occupied territories, we speak about people who live there. It's our neighbors, it's our relatives, it's our families, it's our friends, it's people. We can't live there. We can't live there. alone for torturing death under Russian occupation. Because Russian occupation is not just changing one state flag to another. Russian occupation means enforce disappearances, torture, rape, denial of your identity, forcible adoption of your own children, filtration camps and mass graves. So what does peace mean to you now? Pines means a freedom to live without fear of violence

and have a long-term perspective and this is not occupation. Does that mean that all Russian forces currently in Ukraine, leave Ukraine? In future, yes. For current moment, we are not naive. We understand that we have no possibility to release this territory by military force, but it doesn't mean that we have not to fight for ceasefire. We need ceasefire now to stop the killings,

and then we can discuss how to solve this problem in future by different ways. You're here in Canada. You're on your way later this morning, to New York, to the UN General Assembly. And Vladimir Zelensky has said this week on social media, these are his words, real powerful pressure on Russia is needed. What does that real powerful pressure look like now?

There have been sanctions, there have been threats, there have been summits. What does real powerful pressure mean? It's mean decisive actions. Which is what? Putin understand that it's impossible for him to achieve his goal. Let's me tell just one step. We have 300 billion frozen. Russian state assets in the United States and in Europe.

These are things for things that have been seized around the world. Yes, yes. And these assets were immobilized based on sanctions regime. But for three years of large-scale wars, there is still discussion whether or not we have to confiscate this assets and provide it for defense of Ukraine, for reconstruction of the country, for compensation for victims of Russian war crimes. while we still discussing, there is like a logic that aggressor has to pay for loss and destructions. It's very easy to predict that Russia will refuse to pay, but we have their frozen

state assets and we have legal tools to confiscate it. Let's do it now. Is your sense that that's coming? The Canadian finance minister Francois Félif Champin said last week that the G7 is seeking to move from incremental to, in his words, decisive actions to end Russia's invasion. He wouldn't give more details. But is your sense? sense that the government is willing to take stronger actions? We'll see just in your future because Russia tested G7

countries with this recent attack of drones in Poland and then in Estonia. Tell me more about that. You said that Russia was a Putin test in 2014 when there was the invasion of Crimea and that the world failed the Putin test then. What is the Putin

test? Let me describe this in that way. There is good Russian proverb, appetite grows during the eating. Appetite grows during the eating. Yes, this is Russian proverb, and this is what Putin is doing. The problem is that it was Russia who was always proactive. Russia committed something horrible, then presented it like a fat accompli, like a new normality, new reality, and push international community to reckon with it.

And that's why we are now in such trouble, because when Russia occupied crime what it was. It was unprecedented action after the Second World War when one independent country officially annexed a part of another independent country. But what was the reaction? The reaction was so miserable. The sanctions was so weak that it's provided no harm to Russian economy. And Putin was encouraged. He understood that he can move further. And so is your sense that he is testing the world again with these drones that flew into Polish airspace with the flights that are going into Estonian airspace? I have no doubt in it. What do you think his message is? What is he trying to do with that?

He tried to understand can he move further and to attack next European countries. He tried to understand whether this union will be defended and protect Estonia, for example. Do you think that countries like Estonia are under threat, that those are the countries that could be next on his agenda? Frankly speaking, I think we're all under the threat because Russia want to return their influence to the whole Europe. When you go to New York in that context, how will you make the case for Ukraine? There's a lot that's going on. We're just talking about this. There's a lot that's going on in the world right now.

A lot of the news is bad. And the sense to some people is that Ukraine has slipped down the international agenda. You have Gaza, you have Sudan, you have Donald Trump. Is your sense that people are still paying attention to what's happening in Ukraine? It's true because we are not just the only hotspot in the globe. But this war has a very important impact to the global development of the world affairs. What do I mean? I don't know how historians in future will call this historical period, but the international

system of peace and security is collapsing before our eyes. And with this war, Putin attempts to convince that country, with a strong military potential and nuclear weapon, can break UN chatter, can dictate its wills to entire international community and even forcibly changed internationally recognized borders, that strongest countries have legitimate rights to invade their neighbors, to occupy part of their territories, to kill people there, to erode their identity. If Putin succeeds, it will encourage other leaders with authoritarian mindset to do the same. Do you think that you still have an ally in the U.S. President Donald Trump? Zelensky will meet with Donald Trump, but the United States is no longer donating weapons, for example, to Ukraine,

that read something this morning, that Ukraine is trying to raise a billion dollars a month, a month. to purchase weapons. Do you still have an ally in the United States? President Trump told that he want to stop this war because he care about people who die in. I think it's a good intent to care about people who dying, but in order to achieve his goal, President Trump must demonstrate strengths because red carpet is not working when you face with dictators. We've spoken with a lot of people in Ukraine over the last several years. The conversations in the last few years feel different. Winter is coming. People are, they admit that they're exhausted. There was polling done by Gallup in July. It showed that most Ukrainians now favor ending the war with

Russia. Almost 70% said they wanted that negotiated end to the war to come as soon as possible. Do you understand that? It's obvious. I work with people affected by this war directly. So let me assure you that people in Ukraine dream about peace because war is horrible because war probably is the most terrifying thing which can happen in human life but peace doesn't come when country which was invaded stop resisting to this occupation is that hard to explain to people three three and a half years in when they're again they're worried it's now September they're worried about heat and light in the winter but people understand it when you go deeper to the circle to the this psychological theory, you will understand that people want peace, not occupation.

So when we have no choice, if we stop fighting, Russia will occupy the whole country. It's not something which people in Ukraine want. And sociological theory show this very vividly. What do you want? We want peace for our children. And what does that look like for you? For Alexandra, what does that look like for you? It means that we have a chance to build our country in a way that our government is accountable, that judiciary is independent, that police do not bid students who are peacefully demonstrating, because just 11 years ago we was under authoritarian rulers.

We have just several years for all this democratic reform, so we have a lot of things to be done. It also means to preserve our Ukrainian identity, not to be forced to re-educate our Ukrainian children as Russians. It also means to have our independent country, but not become a Russian colony. It's freedom. That makes you really emotional to talk about. I'm human. And this is our nature. When we speak about something which is value for us, we always become emotional.

I'm glad to have the chance to talk to you. I hope that that dream comes to pass sooner rather than later. In the meantime, thank you for being here and safe travels to New York. Thank you very much. Nobel Peace Prize winner, Alexandra Matvichuk, is the head of the Human Rights Group Center for Civil Liberties. She was with me in our Toronto studio. This has been the current podcast.

You can hear our show Monday to Friday on CBC Radio 1 at 8.30 a.m. at all time zones. You can also listen online at CBC. dotCA slash the current or on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca.ca slash podcasts.