The Current - Why music legend Bob Ezrin renounced his U.S. citizenship

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

The legendary music producer Bob Ezrin has renounced his U.S. citizenship and moved home to Canada, saying he doesn’t recognize America anymore. Matt Galloway talks to Ezrin about his decision; and to Peter Wall, who is organizing an “Elbows Up, Canada” rally to bring Canadians together in the face of U.S. President Donald Trump’s trade war and threats of annexation.

In Scarborough, there's this fire behind our eyes. A passion in our bellies. It's in the hearts of our neighbors. The eyes of our nurses. And the hands of our doctors. It's what makes Scarborough, Scarborough. In our hospitals, we do more than anyone thought possible. We've less than anyone could imagine.

But it's time to imagine what we can do with more. Join Scarborough Health Network and together, we can turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is the current podcast. So it's been a week, eh? Tariffs came in, then yesterday some tariffs went out

until the 2nd of April at least, when they might be back or not. Who knows? In the face of US President Donald Trump's tariff threats and calls to make Canada the 51st state, a lot of Canadians are just plain fed up. We have seen Canadians with their elbows up coming together this week, buying Canadian, protesting in front of the US embassy, making videos. We'll hear more about that in just a moment.

From coast to coast to coast. I think it's fair to say we have seen unprecedented unity in this country. And so this morning we are talking to a few Canadians who are taking a stand and doing something to meet this moment. Bob Ezrin is a legendary Canadian music producer. He produced one of the greatest albums of all time, Pink Floyd's The Wall. He has worked with Kiss, Lou Reed, U2, Taylor Swift, Johnny Reed, our friend Serena Ryder. He was also a dual citizen who has renounced his US citizenship and recently moved back to Canada. Bob Ezran, good morning.

Good morning, Matt. I want to get to your decision to move home in a moment, but how are you making sense of this moment and this week? It's pretty difficult, isn't it? I mean, I think Justin Trudeau's comment, make that make sense, should be a t-shirt. Yeah, I've never seen anything like it. And I've been an Ameri-file, I guess, if there is such a word, and a student of American history and politics, and I've lived in America since 1985. I love that country.

I love this country too. I never turned my back on Canada, but I always felt like I had a leg on each side of the border. And I always felt comfortable. You know, you cross the border and it's kind of like home, but without the you. And now, honestly, I don't recognize the place. Can I ask you about your relationship with the United States? I mean, as a music fan, when did you fall in love

with the U.S. and what the U.S. created? Well, you know, as a kid growing up, you see the movies from the United States, you see television from the United States, although we had some pretty cool Mr. Dress Up TV from Canada. And there was always this sort of magical place across the border. And it wasn't that far away. We would drive into Buffalo as a family from time to time. And I thought the pizza was amazing. And you know, stuff like that.

But also the most important thing for me was the music. My uncle was a collector and I used to listen to, I would sit in his basement and he had a great stereo, which I think may be the reason that I ended up being a record producer in the first place. But I would listen in that, you know, downstairs to music from New Orleans and music from New York and from Chicago, and I would imagine these mythical places, the music was so magical that the places had to be as well,

didn't they? So, and then we started to travel and I started working very early on. My first gig was Alice Cooper and I got sent to Pontiac, Michigan to do pre-production with the band and was hanging out in Detroit during the time of the winter revolution and you know, Free John Sinclair and it was an electric time. And I really felt as though if there was going to be a revolution and I'm making quotation marks in the air, that it would be in Detroit because that was the spirit, you know, that was the spirit of working class America and they were going to step up and they were going to speak out. It all just felt so full of potential and so energetic

and so on a fundamental level, so optimistic. When you became a US citizen, did you feel like an American? When I became a US citizen, I felt like a dual citizen. Yeah, like somebody who had both, you know, blood, both kinds of blood running through your veins in some ways. Absolutely. You had a leg in both countries. Absolutely, and I used to get called out on my Canadianisms.

You know, I would say bean for B-E-E-N instead of Bin. I never said, I don't know why, but I never did, and I don't say, hey, but I do have certain pronunciations that are telltale. So why did you renounce it then? This is, as you said, this is a time and you said you don't recognize the country in some ways. Why did you decide to take that step to renounce that citizenship? Because in a way, silence or ineffective participation is complicity, right? And in my heart, I couldn't be a part of what I see going on, even though I know that there

are some amazing people. And I do, you know, I think in a general sense, Americans are really good-hearted people who have, you know, their families and their communities at heart. But unfortunately, given the strength of media now and also the overload of information, it's too easy to stir people in the wrong direction. Many people have been fed a lot of lies and they believe them. And all people know is that they're uncomfortable. And then somebody comes along and says, you're uncomfortable because of this, this, this, and this. And if it hits any kind of note for you, then you start going,

yeah, yeah, that's it. Is that what you don't recognize anymore, that sense of division that's in the country right now? Absolutely. I don't recognize the discomfort that has produced this kind of a result, where Americans can literally say that they see Russia as less of a threat

than liberals in their own country. You know that doing this is not gonna, you know, change the actions of the Trump administration, but it does something. What do you think it accomplishes, even if it's just symbolic in some ways? You mean my renunciation? What does it accomplish?

Well, it makes me feel honest, I'm sorry. I mean, I don't think it matters to the American government in any way I'm a flea in comparison to the things that they're dealing with and the people that they are going after. It matters to me and it matters to my family. I just don't want to be a part of it anymore. It's not, you know, people say, well, it's only four years, you know, let's wait it out and it's all going to be great. I don't believe that. I think that this is a sea change for America.

It's far too reminiscent of the 1930s in Europe. And I think that that place is going to be fundamentally different from the place that attracted me when I was in my 20s. So anyway, I'm coming home. I am home. I am home. We have a beautiful home here. We love this place. I was born here. I understand Canada, you know, and every time I cross the border, by the way, even though I loved being in

America, every time I crossed the border, there was kind of a moment where you just sort of go, oh, I'm home. So that's how I feel here. And if I'm going to do that and going to be here and going to devote myself to this country and my life here, then what's the point of having a US citizenship, especially if a US citizenship is identified with what's going on now? What do you make of how we have responded to this? I mean, I'm taught one of the things I was interested in, in speaking with you this morning

and others is that there are individual Canadians who are doing things. We saw this on Saturday, Mike Myers on Saturday at live at the end of it, he pulls open his vest and he's got this shirt that says Canada is not for sale and it's doing that, you know, elbows up, Gordie Howe in the corners. What did you make of that? No, I thought that was brilliant. I thought that was part of the resistance. And I actually, I sent him a note right afterwards and just said, this is amazing.

And he said, he said, yeah, but we love Americans and he's right. We do, but elbows up. So that's where we are. We love Americans, but we're being attacked and not necessarily by the population at large, but certainly by the administration. They have their eyes on our resources. They have their eyes on our riches. And from Trump's point of view and from project 2025's point of view and Steve Bannon's point of view,

the best thing that America can do right now is blow the world up and remake it in America's current image. And that's just not going to happen. We're not going to let that happen. You're somebody who, I mean, you could live anywhere and work anywhere, but you have always been a very proud Canadian through the work that you've done, through the philanthropy that you've been involved in. What do you hope comes out of this moment now, do you think?

Well, the best thing is already becoming evident, which is that we're pulling together as a country. Do you think that lasts? Do you think that goes beyond what we're seeing right now? Well, I don't know. And that's a really good question. And that's the reason I'm doing this, Matt. That's the reason why I'm talking to as many people as I can because I think that this

has to last. This is not a threat that's going to go away in a week. These people, they covet what we have and they're not going to be satisfied until either they break us or they come to a point where they realize it's too costly to them to try. And costly, I don't mean necessarily in dollars and I don't mean necessarily in tariffs, but I do mean in terms of the level of resistance that will come from here to American, I hate to say that, like I could never say this before, but American imperialism. So we have to stick together, and we have to commit ourselves to this and say, look, this is a danger. It's not a danger that's

going to disappear in a week. It's not a danger that's going to go away at the midterms. If we're all sitting here holding our breath for a year and a half, it's not going to happen. I mean, they may take the house, but it doesn't matter. He's basically created a kingship there. He is creating an autocracy and he's unpredictable as my wife loves to say. He thrives on chaos. And that chaos is aimed at us right now. So what would you, I'll let you go, but what would your message be to other Canadians in this mode after this week? What would you say to them and us?

Okay, well, the first thing I would say is don't be overly reactive. I think that what we have to do is look inward right now. We have to look east and west and figure out ways that we can coexist together and help each other up, you know, like build each other up. So we have to be able to trade across the country without too many barriers. We have to normalize our economy as one country.

I think also we have to be prepared for a little bit of sacrifice and we have to drop our differences right now. Forget that you're a liberal, forget you're a conservative, forget you're an NDP or anything else. You're a Canadian. And right now, all of us, you, me, and everybody else, whatever party we belong to, we are at risk unless we stand up, we make the commitment,

and we continue to do the work for as long as it takes. Bob, it's great to talk to you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Matt. Bob Ezran, legendary Canadian music producer. He's worked with just about everybody from, as we said, Serena Ryder and Taylor Swift to Pink Floyd. In Scarborough, there's this fire behind our eyes. A passion in our bellies.

It's in the hearts of our neighbors. The eyes of our nurses. And the hands of our doctors. It's what makes Scarborough Scarborough. In our hospitals, we do more than anyone thought possible, with less than anyone could imagine. But it's time to imagine what we can do with more. Join Scarborough Health Network and together,

we can turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescabrew.ca. What do you see when you look around? Lively cities, growing neighborhoods, things that connect us. For those in the skilled trades, it's a world they helped create.

Discover more than 300 careers, paid apprenticeships, and the unmatched feeling of saying, I made that. Learn more at Canada.ca slash skilled trades. A message from the government of Canada. My next guest is planning a rally for this Sunday in Ottawa. It's called Elbows Up Canada. Peter Wall joins us now.

Peter, good morning to you. Good morning, Matt. How do you make sense of this moment and this week in this country? Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, it's hard to make sense of. That's for sure. I think one way we can make sense of it is by talking about it and by coming together. And that's what we're aiming to do on Sunday here in Ottawa. We're gathering, we're having a peaceful, nonpartisan, family-friendly family-friendly rally, a real of unity, kind of in response to the rhetoric that's been coming from our southern neighbors and from one person in particular.

What does that phrase, elbow is up, mean to you? Well, I think, as you just said with Bob in your last conversation, it's coming out of the world of hockey. And I think Mike Myers did a great job on Saturday Night Live, kind of putting his elbows up and saying Canada's not for sale. And so I think it shows that Canadians are polite, but we're angry, we're frustrated,

and we wanna stick up for ourselves. And so why did you want to do this? Why did you wanna organize? We'll talk about what's gonna happen. Why did you wanna organize this rally on Sunday? Yeah, so my wife went to a rally earlier this week in Ottawa and it was great. It was kind of hastily thrown together and there was people out sharing their views. And I went to sleep that night.

I was out of town. I came home. I went to sleep that night and kind of woke up in the middle of the night and I thought, we need to do something we need to gather together in the way that people did for the 1995 referendum in the way that we have in the past for other events and and get out in the streets and and Channel our energy because I think a lot of us are feeling frustration and we want to do something So this is an opportunity to come together in sort of a collective group hug Slash, you know, flag waving opportunity and do something.

And so you said that this would be family friendly, but also you said it would be nonpartisan. Tell me why, why that is important to you. Yeah, I think it's important for that. It's nonpartisan. I think what we're all feeling is above party politics. It's about Canada. So everyone is welcome, you know, for the event on Sunday. The message is one of unity and sovereignty

and positivity and optimism and togetherness. And ultimately, yeah, it's really not about party politics. Are you expecting politicians to show up? You know, I think we're, again, we're open for anyone. We're hearing informal support from political leaders, but this is not about politicians. This is a total grassroots movement for people, for the people, by the people. You know, if leaders want to listen, great, but this isn't about them.

Who's going to be speaking and what's going to be happening, aside from people coming together? Yeah, so it's going to be a mix of speakers. We've announced our first speaker yesterday, Sean Majunder, who's got a great story. Just moved back from Los Angeles to Canada. So he's going to be coming and will be speaking and Sean is passionate and hilarious and will be great. And then we're going to be, you know, announcing other speakers throughout the next 48 hours.

It'll be a mix of influential speakers, ordinary Canadians, grassroot voices, and we also have some music. The timing of this is interesting because the news changes, it feels like minute by minute. Donald Trump announced yesterday sort of a back step towards maybe some sort of normalization or at the very least pulling back some of these tariffs for another 30 days. Does that change anything for you, What happened in the last 24 hours? I mean, honestly, Matt, I think this kind of chaos that we're feeling, it feels like

it's going to last, you know, it's a roller coaster. And so I think as Canadians, we need to come together. And whatever is going on with the tariffs or without the tariffs, I think we are feeling like we need to gather and we need to respond to what's going on. This is not an anti-Trump rally. It's not an anti-America rally. Many of us have friends and family and business connections in the United States. We love the United States, but what we're responding to is this idea that Canada is for sale or is up for negotiation

or is going to be the 51st state. None of us want that. Really, none of us want that. And so we need to get together and share that message. How do you think about the United States now? Because there are a lot of people who, to your point, may have ties, friends, family, what have you, but they also feel that it's not just the leadership. A lot of people in the United States voted for Donald Trump and they, they,

they're canceling trips. They are having hard conversations with, you know, folks on the other side of the border because it's, it's bigger, they believe than one man. How do you, how do you feel about the United States right now? I mean, I think what's really important is how I feel about Canada. And I think how I feel about Canada is we have something pretty unique and worth, you know, worth protecting here. And, you know, like I said, we love our American friends. You know, we love all of the things that we're able to experience in the United States. But ultimately, we are a different country. We're a different place. We have a different history. We're different people. We have multiple languages. We have a different approach to diversity.

And so I think we need to get together and we need to celebrate that. We need to talk about it in a Canadian way, in a way that's polite but a little bit angry because we're all feeling angry and frustrated in a way that's peaceful and in a way that really brings us together because it's possible, Matt,

that things are gonna get tough in the coming weeks and months. And we need to be ready for that. We need to build resiliency as a group. What do you hope comes out of this moment? And it's not just the rally and what the rally inspires, but this feels like something. And it's the question that I asked Bob.

What happens after this moment? And what do you hope comes out of this moment? Yeah, it does feel like something. I think you're right. I mean, I think we all felt it during the hockey, during the Four Nations, you know, I certainly haven't felt that patriotic for a long time. So I think a renewed sense of Canadian uniqueness and how we need to protect and celebrate what we have here, I think that's what's coming out of this. I think an opportunity for Canadians to be more involved in the Canadian national project in whatever way that represents itself,

whether it's on a local level or beyond. For me, I haven't ever been involved in something like this. I've never organized a rally. And a lot of the people on the organizing team involved in something like this. I've never organized a rally. And a lot of the people who are on the organizing team are in the same boat. So I think it's a way for us to come together as a country and to build Canadian unity.

And I think that's a good thing. And you're seeing that from ordinary Canadians, coast to coast to coast, people trying to figure out how they can be involved in this. Yeah, I mean, this is for us, it was really just the start. You know, we're having this event on Sunday. We're gonna encourage other folks in the coming weeks to have events in their own communities and to grow this idea of us coming together.

Peter, good to talk to you. Thank you. Thanks, Matt. Peter Wall is one of the organizers of the Elbows Up Canada Rally. It's happening in Ottawa Sunday at 1 p.m. He mentioned that ordinary Canadians are kind of involved in this across the country. What are you doing? I mean, are the things that you are involved in in this moment for this country, maybe

it's in terms of we've been talking about purchasing power and what people have been buying travel or what have you. But beyond that, you see a lot more maple leaf flags out in front of people's houses these days. What are you doing in this moment? You can email us and let us know. Thecurrent at cbc.ca. Jeff Douglas has done a thing. Jeff is the host of CBC Radio's Main Street, Nova Scotia. He's in Halifax. He became a Canadian hero in 2000 as the flannel wearing Joe Canada and the viral beer ad called The Rant. His slogan

I am Canadian became a national catchphrase. Well now Joe Canada like all of us is a little older, a little grayer. He's back with a new version of the video. Here is our friend and colleague Jeff Douglas and we are Canadian. Hey I know it's in our nature to cut a guy some slack, give him the benefit of the doubt, like maybe he was confused or just choking or just maybe really needed a double double. But this isn't that guy. These aren't those people and those are not the Rockies. They make a lot of mistakes. They mistake our modesty for meekness, our kindness for consent,

our nation for another star on their flag, and our love of a hot cheesy poutine with their love of a hot cheesy POUTINE. They think they can bully us, threaten us, and push us around, but they do not know us. That artificially drawn line they keep talking about, not artificial, and it's not on a map. It's right here. that they do not know us. That artificially drawn line they keep talking about, not artificial, and it's not on a map. It's right here.

This is the land that Terry ran, the land that Gordon sang about. This is the birthplace of peanut butter and ketchup chips and yoga pants. It is the land of universal healthcare and the bench clearing for ball of innovation and optimism and getting her done. This is the land of the peacekeeper and the Shawinigan handshake.

Are we perfect? No. But we are not the 51st anything. We are the first to unite in a crisis, the first to build bridges, not walls, and the first to stand on guard for thee. My name is Jeff and we are Canadian. Thank you.