The Current - Why the son of a MAID pioneer is choosing to die on his own terms

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Price Carter travelled to Switzerland with his mom, Kay Carter, 15 years ago to be with her while she received an assisted death. The process was illegal in Canada at the time — something her kids went on to help change. Now, following a cancer diagnosis, Price has been approved for an assisted death. He spoke with Matt Galloway about the decision to die on his own terms.

So, how did the Liberals manage to win government while the Conservatives also boosted their voter support with voters almost evenly split between the two? And what will this mean for hopes of some cooperation on Parliament Hill this spring? I'm Catherine Cullen and every Saturday on The House, we cut through the noise to make politics make sense. Follow us wherever you get your podcasts as we explore these questions and answer yours. This is a CBC Podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway and this is the current podcast. Fifteen years ago, Kay Carter traveled to Switzerland to die. She was 89 years old and

living with spinal stenosis, a degenerative condition. Kay decided that she wanted a medically assisted death, but that was not an option in Canada at the time, so she had the procedure in Europe and died peacefully, surrounded by family, including her son, Price Carter. After her death, Kaye's children fought to give Canadians the right to die, and in 2015, the Supreme Court of Canada struck down the law that barred assisted death in what became known as the Carter decision. Everyone in this place is going to die. And hopefully we'll die good deaths if we can. But if we need to, we now have the option of dying peacefully and gently instead of horribly.

That's Price Carter's reaction to the Supreme Court decision that paved the way for making medical assistance in dying legal in Canada. Now under the law that his mother helped make possible Price Carter is also choosing to die on his own terms. He was diagnosed with stage 4 pancreatic cancer last year and knows this disease will eventually take his life. He has been approved to receive medical assistance in dying later this summer. Price Carter is in Kelowna, British Columbia. Price, good morning. Good morning, Matt.

How are you doing? Well, other than dying, I'm doing pretty good. Other than dying, how do you feel this morning? I feel good. I'm in no pain and the dying condition is a separate kind of a thing, but it's of no concern at all to me. And I want to ask you more about that, that being of no concern to you right now, but when you hear what you were talking about in terms of what your mother went through and where this country traveled to get to the point that we're at right now, what goes through your mind in terms of how much has changed in Canada when it comes to medical assistance and dying? Well, it's interesting. It's the changes that I have seen in legislation. I have been really,

very frustrated with the government who has dragged their feet on every change that the Supreme Court of Canada gave Canadians. And now we just have a couple of outstanding things, a couple of which are quite outstanding, to go to get made to the place where all Canadians can access it freely and depending on, not so much dependent on your condition, because right now the government makes a quality call on your quality of life

and says, hmm, that's not really bad enough. You're gonna have to get worse. So, but right now that bar is quite low, which is great. I went through my two assessments and stage four pancreatic cancer, you're a go man. What do you remember about getting your diagnosis? You're a go man. What do you remember about getting your diagnosis?

Well, it wasn't a big deal. Um, I'm a very pragmatic man. And so when, um, I first went in, you know, I, I've got some unusual things happening. I went to the hospital and then I went in a second time and then did a CT scan. And this young doctor, he comes and he says, hey, dude, I got some bad news for you. You got tumors. And instead of, you know, what? And hair on fire or hand ringing or anything else, I went, really? Can I take a look?

Because I was interested. I don't have the same reaction to imminent death than anybody else because I've always been prepared for it. I've always expected that at some point, I'm gonna get hit by a bus, fall down an elevator shaft, or something's gonna happen to me medically that I'm gonna to be on. So this is just, oh, so this is how that particular story ends. Where do you think that comes from? You've talked about how you have a laissez-faire attitude towards

death. Where do you think that comes from? Yeah, I'm green on Jolonde. Well, my parents were interesting people and my mom would take an issue like a hand grenade and drop it on the dinner table. And what do you think about this? And then she'd even take the contrary in view. So we would chew on that for a while. So I've been exposed to lots of different ideas and in different formats.

And it was just sort of a normal part of my growing up that I just evolved into this guy who was going, well, we're all gonna die. That's an obvious kind of thing. And carry on. How soon after your diagnosis did you decide that you wanted medical assistance in dying? Given everything that you've just said

in terms of how you think about death, how quickly after that diagnosis did you make that decision? Well, it was interesting because I, Danielle, my wife says it was about a month and a half ago that I sort of made the decision to go. And the culmination of physical symptoms and my willingness to put up with them and the degradation that's going to happen

with pancreatic cancer is such that you can wait, but it's going to be painful. So I've chosen an earlier date, not for me, it's not earlier for me, but I've chosen it. I could go on further, but I'm not here to grab extra days. I'm not that kind of a guy. How does your family feel about that? You mentioned your wife, you have three kids as well? I do. First marriage, three kids, and then I have my Danielle. Understandably, and I say this to them, I say, I get it how you guys will not have the same attitude towards this for, because you're different people and you have different attitudes.

And also because your perspective is different. You know, I get to go. I just, I'm gone. And then, but you guys, you have to hang around here while I'm gone. And that's going to be tough. But one of the things I learned with my mother and her drawn out death date, if I can put it that way, is that we had a chance to grieve together. And it was such a lovely time.

I'd say, mom, who are we going to talk about politics with? Who am I going to talk about foreign policy? And she'd say, oh, you'll find somebody. And we just, we sort of chewed through. And what I found, actually, my sister Marie, Lee and Hollis, the four of us who were with her when she died, were all struck with the casualness with which we all accepted her death because she's lying on a bed, she's dead and we're over at a kitchen table toasting with schnapps and laughing and joking about things that happened in the past. And it was such a lovely, lovely experience that I hope to share with my kids

without the schnapps perhaps. Do you understand why it might be much more difficult for them? I mean, again, one of the things that happens when someone is dying is that the people around them want this person often to be, they want those extra days. They want them to be around for longer. Do you understand why this might be difficult

for your family to wrap their heads around? Absolutely. I do get that, I do get that, but I invoke the right of the individual. Something that is true of maid that I have found over the years, when my mother died, I would sometimes share the story if someone was interested,

and they'd always ask me the same thing. What did she have? Excuse me, what what did she have? What diseases did she have? And what they were doing, and not a bad way, but what they were doing was they were qualifying whether she re-qualified for this assisted death. And in the same way that my family might do the same thing. Well, come on, how about maybe the fourth of the month? How about that? And they're not getting it. Like my quality of life, I'm all about quality of life. And if my quality of life is diminishing,

diminishing, diminishing, at some point I choose, I choose a time when that's enough. And I would strongly argue against anyone who suggests, well, you should stay a bit longer so that you can make so-and-so's birthday or some other event to suggest that I would subordinate my death to some other earthly event.

It just seems silly because I'm talking about my quality of life and I need to go. I need to go. Is drinking raw milk safe like RFK jr. suggests? Can you reduce a glucose spike if you eat your food in quote-unquote the right order? I'm registered dietitian Abby Sharp. I host a nutrition myth-busting podcast called Bite Back with Abby Sharp. And those are just some of the questions I tackle with qualified experts on my show. On Bite Back, my goal is to help listeners

create a pleasurable relationship with food, their body, and themselves, which in my opinion is the fundamental secret to good health. Listen to Bite Back wherever you get your podcasts. What do you think you learned from that experience of watching your mother die? Oh, well, it was a protracted period because we got to grieve for so many months and then we had such fun times the night before in the hotel as we kicked around a Rolodex with addresses in it of people she was going to write a letter to because she couldn't tell them before she left.

And it was laughter. It was fun. It's characterized by things you do not associate with death. And this is something that I'm trying to get across. It doesn't have to be so dark. There can be laughter. Well, in the case of Maid, you get the opportunity to share. Wasn't that so funny, that thing that happened at the beach?

And you'll laugh together. What was the process, you've hinted at this, but what was the process that you had to go through to be approved to be eligible for Maid? I applied for Maid and fairly quickly the office called me and they set up an appointment with a nurse practitioner who came in and did an assessment. And as I alluded to earlier, they'll talk, you know, physical, I obviously have, I qualify physically, but mentally, and is anyone forcing you to do this?

And this was true with my mother. I don't know how many times some doctor or some official would pull her into a room. Okay, no one's forcing you to do this, are they? And no, no, no, I'm doing this. I want to do this. This is me. And so it's the same, although not as sort of as many times, but they ask on a number of different times during this questionnaire, you know, are you being coerced? Are you being

forced into this? And so I went through the first assessment and then the next assessor is actually the provider. And so in my case, he came about a week and a half later and did an assessment that we discussed the process for made because there's injection or there's oral. And my mom actually took two drinks and it was a followed cheese pie chocolates. And in my case, I'm going to have a couple of tablets, I guess, which they've never done before. And so I'll be groundbreaking in that respect, I suppose. You frame this as an issue of personal choice. A decade after that Supreme Court decision, how comfortable do you think Canadians are with where we are right now in 2025 when it

comes to medical assistance and dying? Well, the surveys they do are in the high 80s about Canadians accepting maid. Although I would say of Canadians, the society in general, we were death denying. We were like little toddlers and we hide behind our hands and you can't see me. I can't see death. And I would wish it was a little bit more open. I would wish that conversations would be had with, often it's elderly, but it doesn't have to be, whoever's in a condition that might require a maid to have that conversation, to ask these kinds of questions and to flesh out all these concerns.

It could be religious, it could be spiritual, it could be your personal beliefs on death or dying, but whatever they are and just get them out in the open. And often it works itself into a way, well, I don't wanna suffer. And so, yeah, maid is okay. I just wonder, I mean, some of the variation in public opinion has to do with the expansion

of eligibility around maid. Who do you think should qualify this? Should minors qualify for this? Should somebody who is living with mental illness qualify for medical assistance in dying? How far, where's the line? How far should that expansion go, do you think? Well, this speaks to the question of us in Canada,

the medical people need to make that assessment. But how do I make an assessment about your migraines? How do I make an assessment about your crushing anxiety or your raging tinnitus? And these kinds of things are not quantitative. And these kinds of things are not quantitative. In the case of mental issues, I can see people, the system, balking because I'm not sure what it is, but they could use the DSM-5 and they could just highlight all the things that they think would qualify for made. And in terms of the one thing that could be changed, well, tomorrow, would be advanced request. This is, oh, I'm just, again, the government driving its feet. There's millions of Canadians that are metaphorically biting their nails because they don't know that are metaphorically biting their nails because they don't know if they fall into

that dementia trap where, no, I'm sorry, you haven't got the mental capacity to make the decision. I have experienced a lot of hand wringing in this process and I find that people are, but what if they change their mind? Oh, come on. You're asking a philosophical question about quality of life and someone saying,

oh no, if I'm in these stages, then let me go. I would like to have made. And it makes so much sense. It's so much more a kinder Canada when that is in place. One of the concerns that people have raised is that the scope of what your mother fought for has been well exceeded, that we're now in a position where it's easier for some people with a disability or mental illness to access medically assisted death than it is to get them the help that they would need to actually make their lives better. It leads to that conversation about a slippery slope,

but also just that the gaps in the social support that we are able to offer would lead somebody to medical assistance in dying when perhaps they wouldn't if those resources were there. What do you make of that argument? Well, this was a big concern. I know that at the press gallery after the ruling came out, there was a, I think he was an MP for Winnipeg. And he was saying, you know, my quality of life is okay. I don't want to die. To which I would say, well, then don't. There's so many ways that stop this, that immediately pull the pin on the made process if you indicate that that's not something you want to do.

And in terms of palliative care, I cannot speak for the rest of Canada's communities, but there is good palliative care, at least where I am. But I think that depending on what your condition is, pancreatic cancer is said to be quite painful towards the end. And you go, well, I think actually I'm going to take door number one, which is made, and rather go that particular route. You will die this summer. How are you thinking about the time that you have left?

I don't. You don't at all? No, no, I don't. It's how many countdown days or whatever days. When the day comes, I'll sleep well the night before as well as I do. Are there things that you want to do in the time that you have left? Well, not really. No, I'm just counting down the days in my particular case because I have so little energy. Danielle's come up with this lovely expression, I'm vertically bedridden. So I can shuffle around the house, but I've got so little energy is from chair to chair to chair.

So it's not much of an existence, but you know, someone might qualify that as being that's okay. I could live like this. But in my case, I've got further things that are causing it to impinge on my quality of life such that nope, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna check out. And do you know what you want that to be? You've talked about a out. And do you know what you want that to be? You've talked about a good death. Do you know what you want that day to look like? Well, I'd like my kids, I can't say they'll never be happy. I'd like my kids to accept this is what I wanted to do.

This is the best thing for me. And there's a part of each one of us, I think, that's when someone we love and we go, yeah, this is actually better for them. I don't like this at all, but this is better for them. And I hope that comes around. And I believe it will. My experience has been that it does.

I had it right away with my mom, but it may take some time with my kids. They haven't been around me as much. They live in Ontario. And so they'll just have a couple of days with me and then a couple of days with Danielle and then they'll be on their way. And they'll have to process this on their own.

But I think they'll have enough of a seed of the idea that, that said this was okay. And maybe I can accept that. I'm really glad to have the chance to talk to you. What do you say at the end of a conversation like this? What do you say at the end of a conversation like this? Well, I like to maintain a sense of humor and laugh every day. And I hope to do the same on the date of Maid, that I'll have laughter and humor in my Maid room if I can. So, Matt, it's not a sad thing. Thank you for talking to us and all the best.

You're welcome. You've been listening to The Current Podcast. My name is Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening. I'll talk to you soon.