The Current - With tariffs on two fronts, this farmer feels like ‘collateral damage’

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

With looming tariffs, canola farmer Margaret Rigetti says she feels like she’s “being used as a pawn” in a trade war between Canada and her two biggest customers: China and the U.S. She says the federal government needs to do more to support her industry, instead of treating farmers like “collateral damage” in the push to protect sectors like steel and electric vehicles. 

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But it's time to imagine what we can do with more. Join Scarborough Health Network and together, we can turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescarborough.ca. This is a CBC podcast. Hello, I'm Matt Galloway, and this is The Current Podcast. You know that farming is not easy at the best of times, but in a trade war, it is especially volatile.

Canadian farmers looking out at their fields this spring are caught in a geopolitical storm that just like the weather, they simply can't control. US President Donald Trump is threatening sweeping 25% tariffs on almost all Canadian exports, including pork and canola as of next month. Plus, this Thursday, China is imposing 100% retaliatory tariffs on Canadian canola oil, canola meal and peas after Canada imposed 100% tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles last fall. It's all a lot to swallow. So this morning we're checking in with agricultural producers across this country and we begin

with Margaret Ragetti, who is a canola farmer near Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. Her work is on two farms, one with her husband, the other with her brother and cousin. She's also director with the Saskatchewan oil seeds development commission. Margaret, good morning. Good morning, Matt. It's great to talk to you. It's great to talk to you.

And as I said, spring is the point where you, after a long winter, start to look forward and you're thinking about what spring is going to bring to a farm. Have you ever faced a spring quite like this? Yeah. Well, I've been farming for a long time. And yeah, it's safe to say I've never experienced a spring like this.

Yeah, here we are just weeks away from going to the field. And the tariff news just keeps going from bad to worse. I've been doing this a long time. And yeah, we've experienced difficulties before, but being used as a pond in a trade war between our two biggest customers, now that's a new one. Yeah, we've experienced difficulties before, but being used as a pawn in a trade war between our two biggest customers. Now that's a new one.

And yeah, there's no doubt China is a master geopolitics and it knows that canola is Canada's crop. So yeah, the fact that the announcement came on the eve of a new prime minister, that was no accident. And yeah, I believe targeting canola is strategic and it's not the first time. Tell me what this is going to mean to you. As I mentioned, you have the US tariffs as of next month and then China, 100% tariffs that start on Thursday.

What is this going to mean for your farms? Yeah, well, yeah, there's so much at stake, right? We've built a farm based on Canada's commitment to pre-trade and now that's all up in the air. We're, yeah, weeks away from going to the field. We have hundreds of thousands of dollars of seed and fertilizer on the farm waiting to go into the ground. We have debt payments. We have kids planning futures.

Yeah, do they want to become farmers? That's a question they're asking. My son's actually planting his first canola crop, and he wonders where the tariffs will be in the fall, and I just can't reassure him at all. Have you already seen, I mean, price volatility kind of rolled into this. One of the things that we've heard from people

in industries across the country is that it's, the tariffs are one thing, but it's also the uncertainty, right? The tariffs are coming, they're not coming, they're coming, they might be coming. What does that mean for you? Yeah, well, back and forth, back and forth. And last Monday when, after the China announcement,

futures dropped so far, so fast, they dropped $40 that they had to stop trading and buyers just quit buying. And yeah, since then we've, we've lost about a hundred dollars, a ton of value since the tariff announcements began. And yeah, at this point, it looks like we could lose money on

every acre of canola that we seed. Scott Moe, the premier of Saskatchewan said that canola plants will close if this isn't resolved and that this could decimate the industry itself in a matter of weeks, not months. Does that sound accurate to you? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. And yeah, and in fact, over the last few years,

virtually every bushel of canola we've grown has gone to a crush plant in Yorkton, Saskatchewan. And so, yeah, when there's the only reason a crush plant would close is because there's no demand. And when there's no demand, the price is very low. So you can imagine how bleak that is at the farm, not to mention all the jobs and the communities that that affects. I mean, farming is a real knife edge anyway.

You said that you would lose money on every acre essentially. Can you survive that? Um, well, we're not really sure if we can survive that rate. I mean, um, yeah, I want to make my living from selling crops around the world. And yeah, that was a promise of our trade agreements. But if our farms are going to be collateral damage in Canadian trade policy that prioritizes other sectors like EVs, steel, aluminum, dairy, yeah, I think the government needs to provide compensation for those trade exports. Is that how it feels to you that your collateral damage and that you're being squeezed

in some ways by a government focus on other industries? Well, it does. And in fact, when I heard that China had announced retaliatory tariffs, I just had this sinking feeling of, oh no, here we go again, canola farmers paying the price with China. But what's different this time is that our former BFF, the United States of America, isn't acting very friendly. And yeah, so losing access to our two biggest markets at once, that's unprecedented. Can I just ask you a bit more about the EV thing? Because the tariffs were put in place on the Chinese EVs ostensibly to protect the auto sector that's largely based in Ontario.

Do you believe that, and it doesn't matter who's leading the government, that the federal government is willing to or hoping to protect that sector and not paying enough attention to, for example, farmers in Saskatchewan? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'm not sure if you know, but yeah, canola was actually invented in Canada. And so, yeah, it's truly a Canadian success story. Yeah.

And more specifically, yeah, it's a Western Canadian success story and it's our country's most valuable crop. story and more specifically, yeah, it's a Western Canadian success story and it's our country's most valuable crop. And so, yeah, I want to know why farmers are paying to protect an industry that barely exists. I want to know why the automotive industry doesn't have to compete while we do.

Yeah, I don't really think Canadians want to buy Chinese EVs anyway. So yeah, why are we trading our successful canola industry for it? Yeah, I'm pretty angry. What do you, what do you tell your family? I mean, you talked about the kids maybe not wanting to get into farming. This has got to be really stressful for you. Um, yeah, yeah, it is, you know, um, yeah, we

have a next generation coming along. There's just so much at stake and, um, yeah, we just really don't know where the future is going to be if there's not a commitment to trade. That's what our farms have been built on. And so, yeah, so much uncertainty. Margaret, I'm glad to talk to you.

I wish you the best of luck and thanks for speaking with us. Thank you very much. Take care. Margaret Ragetti is a canola farmer near Moose Traws Saskatchewan, also director with the Saskatchewan Oil Seed Development Commission. Next door in Manitoba, Scott Peters is also trying

to come to grips with what a 25% tariff from the United States and China could mean for his operation. Scott is president of Herbs Seguil Farms near Randolph, Manitoba. It's a pork, he's a pork producer. He sends more than 150,000 live pigs across the border into the United States every single year.

Scott, good morning to you. Hey, good morning, Matt. Thanks for letting us tell our story. Glad to have you here. You're a fourth generation farmer. Is that right? You bet. And so you've seen some things.

Um, what have the last couple of months been like for you? Well, yeah, I mean, I would echo a lot of what Margaret would just said. Um, it's been very frustrating. Um, there's echo a lot of what Margaret just said. It's been very frustrating. There's a certain level of anxiousness that comes along with all of this. This level of uncertainty that we have really fuels a lot of negative emotions and you just hope that most of this can get played out or just not happen at all. I've read you said that it's kind of a gut punch reading about these 25% tariffs and what that's going to mean. Yeah it certainly is a gut punch. I was

actually just chatting with a couple of my processing friends yesterday and we're all feeling this. It's not just the producer side, it's the the processing side. It'll's not just the producer side, it's the, the processing side. It, yeah, it'll trickle, it'll trickle into the consumer side as well. So help me understand this. When a truckload of your pigs crosses the American

border on the 2nd of April, what is that going to mean for your bottom line? If the 25% tariff is still in place? Well, it's actually pretty simple. You know, if you want to use some cowboy math, if a pig is worth $100, it's now worth $75, as soon as it crosses the border, the instant it crosses the border.

The cost of that is instantly brought onto the cost of production for the pig. And so that, you know, the 25%, um, just, it's just gone instantly, uh, without, you know, without feed or without any kind of, um, housing costs or anything like that. It's just there. So it's not the Americans that are going to be

paying that tariff. You're taking the hit. It is the importers always pay. Um, but then they pass it back onto us and say, you know, if you want to get rid of your pig, here, here's an X, here's an extended, uh, here's an extended cost to you. So, um, yeah, now we have to figure out a way to

recoup it. And, uh, as we are global price takers, um, we don't have the option to pass it on to consumers and it just, again, just becomes part of the cost of production and, you know, eventually the consumer will lose on this pork because you could argue that 25%, there will be 25% less pork on the shelves or people would just stop buying it.

Why wouldn't you be able to pass that 25% on to the consumer or pass it on to somebody else? I mean, that, that seems to be the domino effect here, right? It sure does. Um, the, it just, it, like I said, yesterday I was talking to a processing buddy of mine. He says such a slow moving ship to, uh, to get

the price to the consumer, but, um but even he can't because he's a wholesale processor, he can't pass it on. I can't pass it on. I just make the contract and I get the dollars for the pig that I've sold. I can't add more onto it. How many people do you have working for you on your farm? Somewhere around 50 right now. And so what are you telling them?

This cloud is hanging over the country and it's darker in certain parts of the country, depending on the industries that are there. What are you telling those people who work for you? Well, you know, they're asking a lot of questions. We don't have the luxury of, let's just say the contracts get cancelled because the price is too high to pay the tariff, then we can't ship our pigs anywhere. And then instantly we have a backlog of animals in our barn which becomes of course an animal

welfare issue which is a whole other topic. But in terms of the laborers and these people have families, just like Margaret was saying, they all have kids that wanna go to school, they're trying to build a future. What ends up happening is that they stop, especially in the rural areas here where a lot of the communities are built on volunteerism

from people that work in the area, they stop doing those things. They move to the city, they get a job in the city and the rural areas lose even like just pick something, arena staff or the local farmers markets. These people just they just disappear. And so I keep telling them to keep their chin up. You know, that right now the tariffs are not on. We are, of course, watching it very closely to see what move Mr. Trump will make next. But yeah, it's hard to stay positive all the time. You're able to keep your chin up in this? Yes, right now I am. We are also canola growers so there's that.

But I am able to keep my chin up for now. You just wonder whether that fifth generation of farmers will follow you, do you know what I mean? Yeah, well my son is farming as well with me and he keeps asking me what happens next. Right. And so with this level of uncertainty and not knowing, and just sort of at the whim of a, whim of a madman, you just kind of feel like you're not, um, not getting the information that you need on a daily basis. You know, we're just kind of all just waiting on pins and needles. I wish you the best of luck and it's good to talk to you, Scott.

Thanks so much. Thank you, Matt. Pete Slauson Scott Peters is a pork producer near Randolph, Manitoba. It's what makes Scarborough Scarborough. In our hospitals, we do more than anyone thought possible. We've less than anyone could imagine. But it's time to imagine what we can do with more. Join Scarborough Health Network and together, we can turn grit into greatness. Donate at lovescarborough.ca.

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Canada, you know, we find that they're charging us over 200% for dairy products. 250% for dairy products, tariff. Canada has been ripping us off for years. One of Donald Trump's favorite targets is Canada's dairy industry. Christian Kaiser is a dairy farmer in Santa Menegilde, Quebec, near the Vermont border.

He is vice chair of the UPA of Eastern Townships. It's Quebec's agricultural producers union. Christian, good morning to you. Yes, good morning. What is Donald Trump talking about there? Well, my understanding is that the US dairy industry has a certain level of tariff-free access to Canada's dairy market, which was actually negotiated by

the Trump administration through KUSMA agreement in 2018. At the time, in 2018, the US administration said that it was satisfied and they were sure that this deal was fair to farmers on both sides of the border. The tariffs he is speaking about, they only pay those tariffs if they export beyond the volume that is agreed upon in Kusma. So over 50% of dairy imports from the US into Canada are coming from the US. How much of Canada's dairy is exported to the United States? He's talking to me, there's this idea of this 200% tariff on exporting to the US. What would that include? We export very little to the US. It's mostly some specialty cheeses and products like that that some small cheese makers are exporting to the US.

The impact of putting a tariff on Canadian going into the US is very small. What are you worried most about? We've been speaking with people across the country in different sectors of agriculture. What are you worried most about? We've been speaking with people across the country in different sectors of agriculture. What are you most worried about when it comes to the broader issue of trade irritants between these two neighbors? Well, dairy farmers, like all farmers, are concerned about the unpredictability right

now and the negative impacts of the revolving threats of tariffs. We don't know like input costs, are they going to go up with the tariffs being put on on both sides, like fertilizer and the seed and equipment. And it's kind of hard, like the speakers, the farmers before me said, the next generation, all this uncertainty, do they want to come on the farm? Do they want to be in this business? It's hard to invest with what's happening. So we're trying to stay focused at doing what we do best, producing a high quality milk

for Canadian farmers in a sustainable way. The dairy sector, as I said, is a real irritant to the US President and to some farmers in the United States as well, in part because, as you know, Canada's dairy industry runs on supply management, which is designed to give dairy farmers and consumers some stability. How does that play into the situation we're seeing right now, do you think? Well, it depends. I guess the US administration kind of uses it as a bargaining tool, and that's hard on producers because it keeps on happening over the years.

But it always depends who you ask in the US. There's actually quite a few smaller farms and even some, I know of some 800 cow farms in Vermont that we're working on trying to get as type of supply management in the U S because they understand, they understand how our industry works and they would like something that looks like supply management in the U S. So it's not all U S farmers that, uh, you know,

want to attack our system. The argument from some is that it's exactly the same kind of protectionism that Donald Trump is talking about. Do you think that's a fair argument, that supply management is a form of protectionism? It is because I mean that the dairy industry, we're trying to produce for our Canadian market high quality milk in the right amount to protect farmers and for food security for Canadian consumers. There have been studies that have shown that

supply management limits choice for Canadian consumers. It also increases prices for consumers here in Canada. The Bloc Québécois put forward a bill saying that it wants any concessions to supply management to be off the table in future negotiations. With that handcuff, do you think people who are trying to figure out a way out of this

trade dispute, that if you can't talk about something that is an irritant, it's hard to talk about other things that might be your instance as well? Well, I mean, all countries have their sectors that they protect. And I mean, food security is important. And I guess on the farmer's perspective, on my own perspective, I mean, we want no more concessions on dairy because it makes our system less and less viable and

it's harder to produce and know how much to produce to fill the Canadian market and to always have high quality product. Just looking, if we look at eggs in the US right now, if we were dependent on eggs from the US at the moment, which is under supply management in Canada as well, we would be paying three to four times what we pay right now. So you don't want supply management to be at all on the table in any future trade talks? I mean, whether it's Kuzma or whether it's a way to figure out how to get out of this fight. No.

Our demand is not to touch supply management and not to give up any more concessions. Christian, it's good to talk to you about this. As I said, we've been hearing from farmers right across the country, and the dairy sector is a huge part of this conversation as well. Thank you for being here. Thank you. I wish you the best of luck. Christian Kaiser is a dairy farmer in Saint-Hermen-en-Gilles, Quebec,

also the vice chair of the UPA in the eastern townships. That's Quebec's agricultural producers union. If you're a farmer across this country, how are the tariffs, the threat of tariffs, the ongoing tariffs impacting you? You can let us know. Email us, thecurrent at cbc.ca. For more CBC podcasts, go to cbc.ca slash podcasts.