The Daily Beast Podcast - Afghan Women Say The Taliban Are Shooting People in the Night and Filming It

Episode Date: August 22, 2021

Daily Beast reporter Diana Falzone reached out to a few different female reporters in Afghanistan to get their perspective on what is happening and what she heard from them is terrifying—from the Taliban beating people in the streets, including children, to allegedly going into homes in the middle of the night to shoot others. She relays their stories to Molly Jong-Fast on this bonus episode of The New Abnormal. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of the new abnormal. We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with the Daily Beast, Diana Falzone. And she's going to talk to us about what's going on in Afghanistan with female reporters, as well as the Taliban's false perceptions that they're projecting out through the media. Hi, Diana. Thank you so much for having me, Molly. I want to talk about the important work you're doing with women in Kabul.

Let's start with that. Yeah. One night I was just on social media. And I was seeing so many of these posts from the Afghan women that at the point, at that point, they were still working journalists. They were still able to work even though Kabul just was taken over by the Taliban. I reached out to many that night because I just wanted to hear their stories. And I kept plugging away until two very courageous Afghan journalist,

female Afghan journalists who are living in Kabul have no longer been. able to go to work. One of them was sent a threatening letter by the Taliban saying she was not to return. Another one has been an eyewitness to the violence that's been going on there. They are in a complete state of hellish chaos trying to get to the airport. Some of them have their documents. Others don't have visas. They said they never expected this to happen in their lifetime. One is in her mid-20s, the other one is in her early 40s. So to see this all happening, they said they're in disbelief and they're in shock. And again, their livelihoods have been taken away from them. And one of them was the sole provider for her 15 family members. So she said, me not being able to work now,

she said, we have no income. So their lives have been turned upside down. One of them is afraid to leave her home, the 20-something-year-old, because she said the Taliban are all around. She said she is noted in that area as a local reporter and she has fought for women's rights in the past. She is a self-reclaimed feminist. So she said they will, she said they might, the idea that they might kill me. No, she said they will kill me. She goes, I cannot leave my house. The other woman in her early 40s, her family tried to flee to the airport in Kabul 48 hours ago without any luck. They witnessed a woman being shot, Taliban fire. She, her name. nephew, her nephew was crying. He said, why are they messing with my country? They had to leave the

airport. It proved to be too dangerous. She wrote me this morning that they're on their way. They're going to try to get on a flight to leave the country. Again, she said, I can't just leave my family, though. She said, my family's in danger because of my association. So the biggest problem they're having is even if the one journalist can get out, then the families are vulnerable. So families of 15, families of 10, families of 20. It's just a very dire. situation, Molly. Right now, there's sort of this period where the Taliban is working on its PR and trying to convince people that they are the kinder, gentler Taliban of 2021. Are you hearing that from on the ground? I'm hearing from the women that are there that that is

bogus, that they are enforcing Islamic rule, Sharia law, that if women are outside not wearing full burqas, they will be beaten. There have been eyewitnesses of women being beaten. One of the women I spoke to yesterday, her 14-year-old nephew went out wearing a t-shirt and shorts to go get red. A Taliban fighter saw him and beat him. She sent the pictures to me. It's very hard to talk about because this very little boy with lacerations and cuts and bruises all over his face and his body for wearing a t-shirt and shorts. He was dressed in a very westernized way. The women are also, saying that they were given a letter from the Taliban and families are getting visits from fighters door to door. Yeah, I heard about the Taliban knocking on people's doors. Is that really happening?

That is really happening. So one of them told me, the 20-something oral journalist told me that during the night, they are, they're especially visiting those that allied with the U.S. government. And they're pulling them out of their homes, especially in the provinces outside of Kabul. They're taking the families and they're shooting them and they're filming it in order to instill fear. They did say that the Taliban is being media friendly to the international press. But once the international press is no longer there, they'll be less careful. So they're being very careful as to how they are being presented to the rest of the world. But they are instilling fear there now.

Also, there was a letter that was given to the families in Kabul saying that, if they have daughters over 15, they must tell the Taliban when they come to their house, how many daughters are in the home? Because based on Islamic law, those women are to be married off. So school right now is closed. One of the women I spoke to, the 40-something-year-old woman, her niece is a nephew school is supposed to reopen on Saturday. But like she said, how are we supposed to send our children to school? She said, first of all, I don't see that happening at all. She goes, secondly, how are we supposed to send these children to school, knowing they could take our daughters and we never see them again because they'll marry them all.

Yeah. Jesus. So it really is like they went back to the Stone Ages. Yes. One of them also said to me, I used to go for ice cream at night with my sister. I'm not allowed to be alone without the presence of a man and in a burqa. So yes, like overnight they said they were just brought back into the dark ages. And the 20-something year old, of course, you know, 20 years the U.S. has been there as a present. So she doesn't know and she said, I will fight with every last breath, even if I die, I will fight from my freedom. We as Afghans need to fight. What are they saying about like getting to the airport? The one woman tried 48 hours ago to go to the airport and that's where she witnessed a woman shot and the gunfire was causing her nephews to cry.

She said that it's completely chaos, that they did attempt it and it was impossible. She said to get close enough to get onto a flight. She said, I have all my documents. I have my family's documents, but it was just too unsafe with the gunfire. She's attempting to go back today. The other one in her 20 said she attempted it as well, but not successfully. And now she feels that now that the Taliban has surrounded her neighborhood, she said, I'm too nervous to leave because I don't think I'll make it out safely to get to the airport.

What do they think Americans could do to help them? Well, I spoke to one expert who said the best thing that the American government can do, and I've spoken to some people anonymously on the government side that said that they are doing this. They're trying to get those that don't have visas that have worked with the U.S. government, who work for the Americans, visas, able to get them out of the country. Because the first thing is, some of them don't have paperwork. They don't have the documents. They don't have passports.

So getting them those things first and then trying to swiftly get them out of the country. There's a lot of people that are working with the Afghans to get them out. But it's a Herkulean task. And the other issue they're running into, again, is even if the one journalist is able to get the proper paperwork, they don't want to leave behind the rest of their family. So talk to me about Clarissa Ward because I've seen her on the ground. What kind of danger is she in? She actually left me audio notes because she only had a few minutes. So we didn't have an actual conversation and her questions and she was kind enough to take the five minutes to answer them.

She was just saying that right now they're kind of on standby as to the safety factor and that their plan and exit strategy is constant changing. Now when she when she spoke to me, that was three days ago. So the situation has changed since then. And since then, I believe it was reported that her cameraman threatened a pistol whip him. She had a large crowd around her. There was gunfire. There was threats. So I'm not sure if they're going to be leaving soon or if she's going to stay.

But as she said to me, that it was a privilege for them to be there and to be covering this. So she was not flinching at all. Yeah. We saw she got so attacked by the right-wing media. for saying that at that moment, it seemed like the Taliban was friendly. But it seems to me she's in actual grave danger despite being an American and from international press. Do you think that's true? I believe that's true.

Because, again, what we're hearing from those women that are there and Kabul that are Afghan women, is that the Taliban is going to play nice. Again, they are trying to do a PR scheme until they have full control. And then they're going to go back to what they were 20 years ago and continue to be, even less than 20 years ago, beheading journalists, beheading those who work for the government. So I'm not a terror expert, but the writing is on the wall that the situation is only going to get more intensified and only going to get more violence. I think anyone who chooses to stay there puts themselves that is American or foreign press puts themselves in a very vulnerable situation.

It strikes me as kind of shocking how things have just gone so horribly, so quickly. Do you see a way that these women can get out? Do they think there's a real chance for them to get out or now? One of them who is trying to go to the airport again today, this is her second attempt with her large family. She's hopeful that she will get out. The second one who's in her 20s is defeated. She doesn't believe she will get out. She also has a very sick mother that is not well enough to travel. So she's worried that if she leaves, they'll kill her mother.

There's so many parts of this. I mean, these are their lives. Both women expressed to me they feel abandoned by the United States. They said the United States came here. We lived a new way of life and now we're going backwards. So I believe their hope is that somehow the United States will come in and fix this or that other allied countries will come in and fix this. So one of them said to me, we're in a wait and see. But the longer we wait, the more we're getting stuck under the Taliban regime.

And she said the only thing I ask of you. was just her speaking to me. She said, the only thing I asked you is you allow me to be a bridge so that the world knows what they're doing to us because she said without the world knowing, we will, we have no power of people here anymore. And their biggest concern too is that when I was talking to both of them, one of them is losing electricity, the other one's phone was going in and out. Their biggest concern is that they will lose social media, that Taliban will stop social media. And they said right now that is their only bridge to the outside world for them to know. Yeah, and it sounds inevitable, doesn't it?

It is. And they know they said give it two to three weeks, if not sooner, for the Taliban to cut us off. They're hoping their phones will stay intact. So that's a very, you know, it's a very real, real threat and reality for them. And they also are deactivating their social media as journalist because like they said, they know my address, they know who I am, they know my family. They already know us and can identify us. So we're already in grave danger. Oh, what a just incredibly grim reality. I mean, I know it's an impossible situation, but it is really heartbreaking what these women are being left, are being, you know, thrown into. And the children. Yeah. I mean, I can't, and beating the children is seems really striking too. Thank you so much, Diana, for coming on. Thank you for talking to us today.

I appreciate you shedding a light on this. I think that's, that's all that they can ask of the average. American is just to keep them in our thoughts and to shine a light on on what's going on so that the world doesn't forget them. Yeah. Oh, so, so sad. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from the Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science. We'll help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you again on the next episode.

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studied The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash. and sign up today.