The Daily Beast Podcast - Ben Shapiro and His Sister Are Secret Boomers

Episode Date: December 14, 2021

Hosts Molly Jong-Fast and Andy Levy discuss a new conspiracy theory—Ben Shapiro and his little sister may be secret boomers— as well as the Republican pundit exodus from Fox News to CNN, and why Ted Cruz is content as a dumb podcaster. Then, Molly has heart-wrenching interviews with two Planned Parenthood abortion providers who describe what’s happening with patients in Texas and surrounding state If you haven't heard, every single week The New Abnormal does a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, the Daily Beast’s membership program. where Sometimes we interview Senators like Cory Booker or the folks who explain our world in media like Jim Acosta or Soledad O’Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner and sometimes its just discussing the fuckery. You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a Beast Inside member where you’ll support The Beast’s fearless journalism. Plus! You’ll also get full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Zhang Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic En Vogue. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart, conversations with the wisest and funniest people in science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down. And on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. What a fun and interesting show we have today. But we're going to do things a little bit different today.

We're going to go deep on the implications of SB8 in Texas and give you a look at how it's affecting abortion in and around Texas. As we'll talk to Dr. Amman al-Sadden, who's an abortion provider for Planned Parenthood Great Plains. And she's going to talk to us about the influx of people coming from Texas to her clinic. Then we'll talk to Dr. Bevec Kumar, who's an abortion provider. are at Planned Parenthood. It works in Texas and will tell us about how providing care there has changed since SB8. But first, let's have some fun. Andy Levy.

Molly Jongfest, if that is your real name. It's not. In the Zhang family, no, I'm just not going to do a riff on Kim Jong. Because there are enough horrible people to talk about. And today, we must talk about Throdis. May she rest in peace, Nancy Reagan. Do you want to explain what Throis is? Let's just talk about why Nancy Reagan is famous today, as opposed to why she was famous many years ago.

So this weekend, Ben Shapiro has a sister who looks just like him, but is taller. Swear to God, we just Googled it so we know this is true. So she's of normal height, is what you mean by that? She's of normal height, yes. And she has got the same features like it's amazing. And to get attention, she had a tweet that said, you can be trashy like Madonna, who has done. an enormous amount of good work towards a lot of different causes. But one of the, in this case, really important, she's done an incredible amount of work with AIDS. And the second picture was

Nancy Reagan, or you can be classy like Nancy Reagan. And they're both the same age. And she was showing this to highlight that Nancy Reagan was classy. But what she didn't know because she doesn't know anything is that Nancy Reagan is one of the, is one of history's great villains for the way she treated the AIDS crisis and the way she acted towards people like her good friend, Rock Hudson. And she was just one of the worst people in history and did everything she could to really, you know, not help these people who were dying. Also terrible on drugs, just a terrible person. And also, I actually thought Madonna looked better in those books. Hell yeah. So go figure. Andy, Levy, thoughts? On the one hand, it's just a dumb tweet.

and whatever. But I think it gets to something. And I mean, look, it's, first of all, obviously, it's beyond the actual stuff about Nancy Reagan. I mean, the actual bad stuff. It's hilarious that Ben's sister was unaware of the very longstanding rumors about Nancy and in her Hollywood career. Come to us via Kitty Kelly Reagan biographer. Yes. You can even throw out that part. I mean, and that's the part that a lot of people hammered on Twitter. which of course that's what's Twitter. That's what Twitter is for. But look, I think you can throw that part out of it.

And it's still the tweet and more importantly, the mindset is still kind of fucked up. Because, look, first of all, as a lot of people also pointed out, there are tons of pictures of Madonna with her family, which was, you know, in the tweet, the picture was Nancy Reagan surrounded by her family. And it was Madonna in some, you know, provocative underwear or whatever. But, you know, there are tons of pictures out there of Madonna with her family. her multiracial family, I guess it's worth pointing out. With lots of adopted children and she's done a lot of work for Africa. Right. You know, as you alluded to, Molly, you're shaming someone for posing in lingerie at the age of 63.

And as you said, also, looking damn good doing it. And that's pathetic. But the bottom line is that this is just, it's so shallow and it's so perfectly representative of this strain, which is the dominant strain now of modern conservatism. It's not let's look at these two lives. It's let's look at these two pictures, which in my little mind is all you need to know. It's just, it's completely incurious. It's my feelings don't care about your facts. And it's, and it's part of this sort of hagiographic conservative view that the 1950s were somehow the apotheosis of American life, which, look, if you're white and straight, maybe that's fine. I'm not sure how great it is if you're Jewish as, as she is and her family is. and the other thing is she's 21 years old. And this means a lot of things. But in this case, it means that you shouldn't be like this for another 40 to 50 years. She's basically, I'm calling her, she's a Zino. She's a Zuma in name only.

And her brother is a mino, a millennial in name only. Because what they are are boomers. Like this is such a boomer mindset, you know, but it's like the instead of it's like, oh, these kids with their provocative clothing, you know, and here she is. She's 21 going, oh, these people. in their 60s with their provocative clothing. Like, you're 21 years old. Live your life.

You have plenty of time to become, you know, to shake your fist at the clouds and bemoan where this country and the world has gone to. Like, be a part of the quote unquote problem when you're 21 years old. That's the whole point of being in your 20s. This is the catch 22 about these quote unquote young conservatives is these conservatives are largely older. So in order to get them, you have to take these kind of very boomer views. And so that's what we're seeing here.

The other just crazy thing is like these people, the Shapiro family ends up defining so many of the bad parts of the conversation. Yet they represent no one in society. Like even the people who like Ben Zee owns the libs don't agree with him on all this like sexual purity bullshit things he says. But the secret about Ben Shapiro is Facebook, right? Like he doesn't, nobody cares about him except on Facebook where he gets crazy numbers because he spends. Angelo Scurasoni said that he spends hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. Again, it's back to that. These are like boomers in disguise.

Like somehow they have, you know, through some weird science, they have. Classy versus trashy. I guess. But yeah, it's just, it's just. I mean, ultimately it's just kind of sad. And I, you know, I'm all for, live your life, do whatever you want. And if she's happy, then, you know, go with God. But it just feels kind of sad to be 21 years old and this is your worldview.

I mean, it's sad, except that they parlay this into making money and changing hearts and minds. And, right? I mean, Ben Shapiro is better than Alex Jones because he's more respectable. But is Ben Shapiro pushing the same type of rhetoric? I mean, maybe a little bit less destructive, but... I don't think there's anything sad about Ben Shapiro. I was talking more about his sister.

I mean, Ben Shapiro is just, that's just bad stuff. But, you know, but look, at least he can sing. He's nasty on that violin man. Ben Shapiro is the case against high school debate. That seems, yeah. Yep, disband, model UN. That's right. All that stuff.

Like, anytime I want my kids to do it, then I think, well, I don't know. Let's talk about an actual boomer. Chris Wallace left Fox News for CNN's new streaming platform. What are you guys seeing there? Andy, I really want to know since you actually worked at Fox News, what you think. I mean, first of all, it was a total shock. Yeah, wasn't it a shock? I think it was.

I mean, maybe I'm just out of the loop completely. But when I opened up Twitter and saw that he had announced it, I'm like, holy shit. That said, it does seem like it's part of a little, bit of a mini trend or whatever at Fox News of, you know, you take a look at who's leaving and who's staying. And the people who are leaving are Chris Wallace. The people who are leaving are Stephen Hayes and Jonah Goldberg. And, you know, you can have various views of all these people, but what they aren't are Trump sycophants. And I don't think it's an accident that that's why these are the people that are leaving. I mean, the thing about Chris Wallace is.

is that he was one of the names, you know, usually when Fox News sort of, you know, vaguely defends itself as a news gathering operation as opposed to the cable news equivalent of shit posting, they hold up Chris Wallace, they hold up Brett Bear, and now they don't have Chris Wallace anymore. And, and again, I don't think that's an accident. I don't, you know, Chris Wallace had a pretty good reputation for sort of being a tough interviewer, regardless of who he was interviewer. And that's not what Fox News is about outside of that one hour on Sundays. Fox News is about sucking up to Trump. It's about sucking up to Trumpism. So I do think this is more than just guy decides, hey, I've been at one place for a long time. I want to try something new. I do think it's representative of what's been going on at Fox for a bunch of years now.

I mean, the fact that he sort of left during the show, that was a little bit. I mean, usually there's a little more time between these things. Right. Usually it's, you know, I'll be, you know, after the new year, I'll be leaving or. Yeah. Alyssa Fra. Member of the Trump administration worked on the health care side during the pandemic now went to CNN too. I just don't. I don't get it.

I understand they want to have people from Trump world, but there has to be a better way. But they shouldn't want people from Trump world. I mean, honestly, I just think if you worked for that administration in particular. And look, my understanding is that she had a fairly good reputation among the press while she was doing communications there. So, okay, you know, I got to give her that. I mean, I guess. Again, it's, it's a low bar. Right.

You could not limbo under this bar. I think it's the weird thing. And also, because she's defended it before us, her father. owned world that daily, which is, of course, the website that had Jerome Corzion pushing the birtherism thing that eventually the former president disgraced game show host pushed as well. I just think if you worked for this administration, or not this administration, the Trump administration, particularly in the, you know, in terms of, if we're talking media, if you worked in the communication shops and ran communication shops in that administration, you should not be hired

by news organizations. I just firmly believe that. And, you know, again, and she may be, you know, it may be one of the things where she's like, well, but I didn't agree with this. I didn't agree with that. Okay, but you helped push it. And, you know, you gave it respectability or an aura of respectability by being there. I don't get cable news at all these days.

I mean, I get it, but it's not news. And hiring people like this just pushes it further into the not news realm and further into the entertainment realm. and the, you know, into the are you not entertained gladiator type realm of it. And I just think it's gross. I mean, it also,

it pushes the mainstream into sort of more right-leaning and kind of, kind of, I want to say, conspiratorial world, you know, when you take people like that, and they are people who normalize things that, you know,

that website really spread a lot of terrible conspiracy theory. Right. So when you hire, someone like that who wrote for that, you're sort of tacitly saying that that kind of thing is okay, even if they don't still do it. So I think that's incredibly problematic. I also think that the fundamental issue here is these, and I think this is the problem with cable news in general, is that who is the audience for this? Like, who wants this person on TV? The answer to that is Jeff Zucker. Right. But I mean, but like there's a far right. I mean, I guess you're trying to get some of the far right,

but you're going to get them to this? Well, but you're not because she's now, you know, she'll go on there and now that she's not there anymore, she'll bash the Trump administration. Right. Which again is, I have sort of mixed feelings about this because I used to work at Fox and now I bash Fox all the time. I sort of get it.

But it's a little different. It is a little different. And, you know, Fox was different when I was there and also I was on a 3 a.m. comedy show. So, you know, I can always throw that out. I wasn't writing press releases and doing press for Mark Meadows. Right. You know.

For people who are now being, you know, who are now being held in contempt of progress. Exactly. But look, this gets back to, you know, this is the bigger question about media. And it's like they're so terrified because conservatives had successfully pushed this narrative of the media being liberal and the media being, you know, whatever. that, and they are so terrified of that, that they feel like they have to say, well, no, but see, we've got, you know, we've got this former Trump administration official and we've got these former, you know, we've got the guy who ran the CIA under Bush. See, we're not liberals. We're Americans. You know, we're all Americans. And then what you end up doing is you end up hiring liars. You end up hiring people who push lies for a living, which is sort of not what news organizations are supposed to do, in my humble opinion. In you and Molly? That's a hot take there, Andy. You know, I'm full of them.

I'm full of them, baby. I'm happy to give Chris Wallace his due because he has stood up to tyranny in Fox News, though, of course, he also gave Fox News a veneer of respectability, which it didn't deserve for any number of reasons. But I just want to get to, like, the nuts and bolts of this for a minute. He's going on a streaming service, okay? How are Boomer's going to be able to do this? Well, see, you know, like you said, who is this for talking about hiring Alyssa Farah?

I can't figure out who CNN Plus is for. The people who watch cable news are, or by and large, old. And, you know, this is not some big secret. This is not some, I did not just drop some, you know, breaking news. And the people who watch streaming networks are, by and large, not old. But the people who watch streaming networks also don't watch news. And I don't know that that's going to change. because they can suddenly access it on their phone or computer.

And look, I'm prepared to be wrong on this. And if CNN Plus is a huge hit, good for them. But, I mean, again, I guess credit to them for trying. I just, it will not shock me if it, you know, goes the way of quibby. So the new popular thing, sweeping Congress is you now need to have a podcast. And Matt Gates has his little YouTube podcast. and he had on one of Molly's favorite people, Representative Dentist Paul Gossar. Molly, did you write him a fan mail after he was on here?

Can we back it up on the thing? Because it's not that not that many people do have podcasts. I think this is starting to be the trend. It's two. One is the guy under investigation, Matt Gates, who's under FBI investigation still. And then the other one is the senator who doesn't want to be a senator anymore, Ted Cruz. So this is not normal, and nor should it be, right, because they have jobs, which is legislating. So this is not, and I mean, if you imagine a world where AOC was like, yeah, I'm going to do a podcast and also my job.

I mean, it's not, they're not supposed to be doing this. Like, they have a job. So this is yet again a real departure. But remember, these Republicans don't, they're anti-government. So ultimately, it's, and, you know, people like Marjorie Taylor Green and, and, and, maybe Lauren Boper soon aren't on committees anyway, right? Marjorie Taylor Green has all the time in the world. So, I mean, I think that, I think that this is just another departure from what,

because they have no, I mean, they have no purpose. I mean, I listened to the little clip of, of the two of them, and it was like the Algonquin clown table. It's two people who should not be in Congress, obviously. I will give people like Matt Gates and even Ted Cruz, I will give them credit. Matt Gates is not smart. Ted Cruz is smart. He sucks beyond belief. He has figured out, as a lot of us have, being a senator now is not about passing legislation. It's about owning the libs and it's about media hits. It's about getting your little shit post quotes out there and whatever. And so he has

sort of gone from the guy who was like, you know, whether you liked him or not, and let's be honest, most people didn't. He was like, well, he, you know, the guy knows how to debate. He's very smart. You know, he's tried cases before the Supreme Court, or had cases heard before the Supreme Court, et cetera. All of that is way in the past now for Ted Cruz, you know, and this is clearly a conscious choice for him. And, you know, he looked around and saw that, you know, Donald Trump became president and he decided, well, what I'm going to do is instead of being, you know, I'm going to trash my reputation as at least being smart, like the only possible good personality trait he had according to anyone who knows him. And he said, I'm going to get rid of that and I'm going to grow a beard and I'm going to start doing podcasts and I'm going to start tweeting bizarre stupid stuff. that's what the people want.

That's what the Republican in this country want, for the most part. They don't want legislators. No, I think that's right. So you end up in a world where, you know, Matt Gates and Paul Gasser, who should be in Washington, you know, or talking to their constituents back home, instead sit at a table and discuss, you know, how they would shut the government down if there were any federal money going to Planned Parenthood. You know, so you get these little, these little fantasies, this little, you know, you. you know, sort of slash fiction or whatever of what the world would be like, unfortunately, probably on the end of 2022, when Republicans do control the House or whatever.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. And I also think that, I mean, I don't know what happens next, but it is the Republican Party is really on a collision course with just Alex Jones, right? I want to take it back to two of you guys' points here. So in that interview, there's a funny thing where Gates asks Paul Gossar about being stripped of his committee science. And he says, well, now I'm on every committee. I have oversight over everything. Me and Marjorie Taylor Green have oversight of all the committees now, which I thought was a pretty horrifying view because they're saying they're going to basically

run around now that they have free time and yell at all the committees and do their psychotic Karen-like terrorizing of all of them. Right. That's just, that's big. You can't fire me. I quit. I quit. Is what that is. I mean, you know, that's like, Oh, no, I want it. I'm happy. I'm happy they took my committees. I'm more, if you strike me down, I will become even more powerful than you can imagine. You know, this is straight up. I mean, it's cool spin, I guess, but, you know, it's of course absurd. So the thing in this interview, though, that I wanted you guys to weigh it on is they basically both agree that if Republicans retake Congress, if Biden puts through any mask mandates or wants the fund plan parenthood, they should just shut down the government every time.

Matt Gates has also discussed putting Trump as Speaker of the House. Don't you guys think these are gifts to the Democrats to run against? For sure. I mean, I will say that Matt Gates always says this whenever he's not getting attention that he's going to make Trump the Speaker of the House. You know, every couple months he says this as like a way to try to get attention. I don't even think Jim Jordan would want Trump as Speaker of the House. Like, he's too sensible for that move.

Yeah, I think Gates, I think that's a lot. like a, that's like an audience of one kind of thing. Like, you know, sucking up to the boss. I just, I'm trying to picture Trump is speaker. Like, Trump does not want to be Speaker of the House for one simple reason. You have to be there. Yeah. You know, nobody wants that.

Do we think it's a winning strategy, though, for the Democrats to run against that these guys are going to, this isn't even gum up the works. This is, we'll shut down the government. We'll make the government lose all this money as happened the last times the government shut down and will create chaos. I am so pre-2016, I would have said yes. Now I'm just so loathe to try to, you know, even figure out what a good strategy is for something like this. I think the more the Democrats can paint the Republicans as the party of Marjorie Taylor Green, of Matt Gates, of Lauren Bobert, of Paul Gossar, etc.

Accurately, I might say, because that is what the party is. but I think the more that Democrats can can make that clear, the better off they are. So in that sense, I think every time one of the, you know, because look, I have friends who are like, why am I always hearing about Marjorie Taylor Green? She's just this, you know, she's just this, you know, nut job Congresswoman with no power. I'm like, well, no, I wish that's all she were, but she's, you know, she's a harbinger is what she is. That's what all these people are. She's a major fundraiser. I mean, she's one of the most successful fundraisers in Republican.

I mean, if you're going to, Marjorie Taylor Green's fundraising numbers are, you can't fucking believe. I mean, small dollar donations, which we all thought would democratize America are actually driving us off a cliff. Yeah. And look, I think I said last week, if we don't take these people seriously, we do it at our own risk. And that's the lesson we should have learned from 2016. And we have to. keep applying it. You know, we can't run around all the people who are saying, well, Trump's never going to be president. That's insane. You know, this is entertainment. This is never going to happen. You then can't do the same thing about these people. You can point out how stupid or how ignorant they are, but you have to take them seriously, given the state of the Republican Party right now

and the power that they hold within it, whether they have committee assignments or not. Oh, 100%. I think that's right. And I think this is where the Republican Party is, right now. I mean, if you look at, it's funny, I'm looking at the candidates who raise the most money 2019 to 2020, right? Steve Scalise makes sense, right? Kevin McCarthy, Nancy Pelosi is three, Devin Nunes, broken brain, Devin Nunes is four, AOC is five, Crenshaw is six, Schiff is seven, Jim Jordan, Katie Porter, and Elise Daphonic. So you see, and now, I think, for sure, if you look at this cycle, I'm sure Marjorie Taylor Green is on that list. But you see the most famous of these congresspeople and the most sort of provocative raise the most money.

But yeah, I mean, it's just discussing that it's true, you know. No, it's absolutely true. And I just think, like, as you said, Molly, I think these people are good at fundraising, which is the number one job of Congress, you know, right now. And they are the Republican Party. They are where the Republican Party mostly is. They are where the Republican Party 100% will be very soon, unfortunately, it seems. And so you have to pay them attention as dumb and ignorant as they are.

Yeah. Hey, folks, if you haven't heard every single week we do a special bonus episode for Beast Inside, the Daily Beast membership program. Sometimes we interview senators like Corey Booker or the folks who explain what's happening behind the scenes in media, like Jim Acosta or Soladadad O'Brien. Sometimes we just have fun and talk to our favorite comedians and actors like Busy Phillips or Billy Eichner. And sometimes we just have friends around to analyze what's happening in the news.

You can get all of our episodes in your favorite podcast app of choice by becoming a beast inside member where you'll support the beast fearless journalism, as well as getting full access to podcasts and articles. To become a member, head to New Abnormal. That's New Abnormal.com. That's New Abnormal. com. Dr. Amman Al-Saidan is an abortion provider at Planned Parenthood Great Plains.

Welcome to the new abnormal, Dr. Al-Saidan. Thank you. Thank you for having me. We're actually really excited to have you, and you are on the ground in Oklahoma. Yeah, correct. And I'm also just generally on the ground. Yes. So what's it like?

I'll just give you a little bit of background about myself. I am the medical director for Planned Parenthood Great Plains, which is an affiliate of them. parenthood. We provide health care in three and a half states, Kansas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and Western Missouri. I am based in the Kansas City area, and that is the main clinic that I work at, but I am traveling about one week of month, sometimes more, to Oklahoma City and occasionally Tulsa to provide abortion care, which has by and large become abortion care for many, many, many Texans. Right. Tell me what the shift has been. So September 1st, the Republican governor signs into a bill, SB 8, and it says basically no abortions after six weeks,

no matter what, period, paragraph. And I know a lot of very smart people were like, it'll never happen. And then the next day, tell me what happens to you. Yeah, so SB 8 passed in May. And so I think the people that are on the ground here, you know, me and my staff and our administration, figure that there would be some effect from SB8. And so we have been preparing for an increase in volume since May when it passed, hiring staff, getting everyone up to speed on all our procedures, medication abortion,

procedural abortion, up to the state gestational age limit in Oklahoma, which is 22 weeks. And so we weren't ready because I don't think that anyone imagined the enormous influx of patients. I just don't think it's possible to be ready for such a thing. but we were as prepared as we could be. We had a task force and everything. So September 1st happens. And in Oklahoma, you are required to have what's called an abortion consult where we read you a script that is mandated by the state.

It contains a lot of information that has been proven time and time again through research to not be true. For example, abortion causes breast cancer. Really? Yeah. So you're told that you have to read things that aren't true. Yeah, let me be clear. I don't do the abortion consults. Many of our staff do, but we are required to read a state-mandated script to the patients. That's what the consultation is. And so you don't have to do that in person in Oklahoma. You can do it by phone. And it has to be done 72 hours before your visit. Now, we, so we knew the enormous influx that was coming, actually, knowing that things are going to be a disaster because we knew that up to 70, 80 percent of our patient appointments in Oklahoma City, The week after and the month after SB8 went into effect, we're going to be people from Texas.

Whereas before at baseline, just because of where Oklahoma City is geographically, we had about 10 to 15 percent of patients come from Texas anyways before SB8 went into effect. But after that, we've seen enormous, enormous increases in patients. The statistic I read was that by September 1st half of all abortions in Texas, it had gone down by about half. I believe that. I have not specifically read that statistic, but I believe it. You're having people drive from very far away. Yeah, people are driving and going to extreme lengths to get essential health care that should be available to them in their communities. So Dallas is the biggest major metropolitan area that we see people come from in Oklahoma City and Tulsa.

And those people are driving between three and four hours. And I don't know if you know this, Dallas's traffic is notoriously bad. So oftentimes that adds a little bit of time. And people we've seen from, we've seen people from Austin fairly regularly, which is about, I think, six or seven hours. Houston, nine hours. We're even seeing people from Texas in our clinic in Overland Park, Kansas. And that's, you're getting into double digits in terms of amount of driving. And all these patients that we see that are able to make it to us, I always, always, always think about. how many patients there are that do not have the time, the means, child care, time off work to get to us. And that is devastating. Another thing I've read, and again, I'm not there,

but that there's a lot of women who they've missed the window now. I can't comment on that specifically, but I do think that many patients care is being delayed by weeks because of this law. And I do think there's a large, large number of patients that are not able to get care at all. And then the people that we are seeing are having to wait weeks and weeks and weeks for an appointment. It's a bottleneck, right? We only have so much clinic space. We only can do so much in a day. And all of a sudden, there's millions of people of reproductive age in Texas that don't have anywhere else to go and have no other options and are being denied their basic human rights.

Do you feel comfortable telling us sort of a. story with not many details? I'll just give you kind of a general comment on that. I have seen the most devastating things and the most normal things. Like, I don't want to be pregnant right now because I cannot afford to have another child. That's one end of the spectrum. And the other end of the spectrum is, I am a victim of incest, and I am a child, and I was raped, and I cannot get essential health care in my community. And now I have to navigate distance, a very complicated legal system that I don't understand, and a lot of other things to try and get essential health care. But the point of all of this and this whole spectrum, I mean, this law is cruel. And I think we see

that the most when we hear these stories of children being raped by their own family members and fetal anomalies. And not to say that the those things are not important. But when I look at a patient that needs an abortion, I'm not looking at those things. Everyone should have access to this care because it is essential health care, and it doesn't matter the reason. Right. For our listeners, it's just one of the things that I think it's hard when we talk about this is we feel that people should be able to have pregnancy care and abortion care, no matter what the circumstances are, but the circumstances are often very dire. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I think, yeah, people are being held captive in their own bodies.

That feels terrible. Yeah. Can you talk to us about the strain on the clinic? It's a lot to expect a small number of people to take care of such a large number of people. We are doing our absolute best. Weight times are increased. We are delivering care to more people per average on day than I think we probably have in our affiliate in the past. And when you put more shame and stigma and hurdles in front of patients,

We see that in the clinic. We are the people that are face to face with that. And oftentimes we see a lot of stress, anger, sadness from our patients. And there's a cost to all of this. There's like, there's an emotional burden cost, all of this. And patients are really being backed into a corner here. And I think that shows and, you know, how people handle stress and how people present a clinic. and their patients are, you know, really taking on a lot of emotional burden from this law. Yeah. Because one of the things I think that we see a lot in the conversation about abortion is because it's such a personal issue, we don't see a lot of what is really happening on the ground. Most people don't want to become pawns in a larger political debate. But if we can't see what's going on in the ground, it goes up to sort of a theoretical argument.

And you have white men who can't get pregnant, furious, dead women, you know. Except Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jr. Right. Exactly. You end up having a very kind of theoretical conversation, which is very relevant. And we believe, but to be able to sort of bring it down to the like nuts of fault of what's happening, I think is also is important. Yeah, absolutely. Are you getting threats on the ground still? We have protesters and they say terrible things to our staff, myself, and our patients every single day.

Increased threats for me personally, I haven't. Maybe I shouldn't say this. I haven't felt that. Yeah. No. Yeah. I'm waiting. But regardless of whatever laws being enacted and whatever new abortion restriction people come up with, there are always so many hurdles, so much shame and stigma.

surrounding this basic essential health care that people should not have to put up with or deal with. And threats and, you know, bad words and calling people names when they go into the clinic is, you know, just one of those things. Yeah. When you are providing this health care, do you feel that this has had an effect on your patients? The law specifically. Yeah. And also just the feeling that this is something that a lot of people need that may be taken away more and more? Like, is there an anxiety there that you say? Oh, yeah. I don't have any objective evidence as a scientist. But yeah, anecdotally, yeah, I do think we're seeing more people feeling, you know, there's always a stigma and shame that comes with having an abortion in our society just because of

anti-abortion politicians that have promoted, you know, anti-abortion laws that are really designed to make people feel terrible, quite frankly, for accessing basic health care. And so beyond that, I do think we are seeing the impact on patients of increased waiting times, having to stay pregnant longer. And that's often manifested in anger, sadness, just general, feeling like you're a bad person. Nobody's a bad person for accessing their basic human rights. These people say they want to end abortion, but they don't have much interest in providing free birth control or increased sex ed. Does that, doesn't that strike you? Yeah, and they don't have much interest in expanding child care or improving schooling or improving WIC programs, federal, just welfare in general.

Like, there, there is an irony there. Yeah. That is very, very recognized and, you know, commented on in our movement. Yeah, it's pretty devastating. Yeah, it goes beyond birth control, right? I mean, it's just like there's no interest in increasing the social framework for taking care of all the extra babies that people want to have in the world. Yes, it just strikes me that a lot of this has to do with power and control and not actually, you know, anything else. If you listen to those oral arguments, it's hard to see how this ban doesn't end in Texas. Are you worried?

I'm extremely worried for a lot of reasons. The decision on Friday, quite frankly, was essentially the Supreme Court doing nothing. They had an opportunity to make real change and stop what is a cruel law, and it is also anti-constitutional. And then this also conjures to mine. And they didn't do that, right? I continue to feel personally a little bit surprised, and then I kind of check myself, and I'm like, oh, why? Why are you surprised? Like, you're dumb. Well, they were put on the Supreme Court to do this. This is a 50-year plan coming to fruition since the Reagan years, really. And so I keep feeling surprised, but I know I shouldn't be feeling surprised. And I don't see how this country gets out of the Dodd's case without Roe, at least being eviscerated.

to the point of not really mattering anymore. But on that topic, I want to say that there's a lot of places in this country where Roe doesn't really exist for people. It's not enough to have abortions be legal. They need to be accessible. And that's the framework. That's one of the pieces of the reproductive justice framework that we're kind of working toward, right? Like, not only should abortions be legal everywhere, but also there should be places where people can access basic health care in their communities. They should not have to travel three, four hours, even one hour, even if they have the means to do it. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, Roe is the floor. Right, Ro is the floor. I think that's a really good row is the floor. Thank you so much for joining us. I hope this is okay. I know that

you know, giving interviews is not your job and that you do much more important stuff than that. But I think it's really helpful for our listeners to hear someone who is there doing this. Yeah, absolutely. I would be happy to help with that anytime because I agree with you. I think that people do need to realize what's going on on a day-to-day basis is really cruel and it's scary. I mean, we're not in a democracy right now. People don't have basic bodily autonomy and that's part of democracy. Yeah. Thank you so much. You're welcome. is an abortion provider at Planned Parenthood Center for Choice. Welcome to the new abnormal, Dr. Kumar.

Thank you for having me. Well, we're very excited to have you because I wanted to talk to doctors who were working with Planned Parenthood in Texas. And you are, in fact, a doctor working with Planned Parenthood in Texas. Yep, I've been with Planned Parenthood Center for choice for about three years now. As someone who is on the ground in Texas, Texas doing what we're all writing about, at least I've written about 60 times this week. Did you see this coming? Yeah, I think we certainly saw this coming. And many of us who have been doing this work

have been saying that this was the opposition's goal for quite a few years now. And, you know, living in Texas for the past seven years, every legislative session, every opportunity that the government of Texas and states like Texas have had, they take it. advantage of it and use whatever they can to attack or restrict a person's ability to access abortion. So it is certainly something that we knew was in the making. I will say that living in this reality, even though I knew it was coming, I knew it was part of their agenda, I knew that this was their goal. The reality of it is very, very different from what I expected. And, you know, just like with anything, you can talk about something, you know, say you're going on.

vacation or something, right? You can look at pictures, you can imagine it, you can have an idea of what it might be like, but until you're living it, you have no idea what it's like until you, you know, see person after person, patient after patient, and hear their stories. And the reality over 100 days now of living under Sanneville 8 is very, very different than what I expected. You had an expectation that something bad was going to happen with abortion in Texas. But now that you're in the ground, on the ground, neither you're in the ground. Not yet. What is it like? How is it different? I thought there would be some relief. I thought the reality of it would be that, you know, we may have to deal with a ban on abortion for maybe a couple of days, maybe a week or two, but

the reality of it would be so absurd and so far-fetched and somebody would come to our rescue, whether it was a federal government or a court or a judge or something. maybe we'd have moments of access and moments of in-access, which is what we had last spring. But the reality of it is that it's just been 100 days. The federal government has tried. We've gone to the Supreme Court twice now. We've gone to state court. Like, nothing's working. And there's no relief. And beyond that, the line of questioning and the things that people in power are saying and their ignorance of the reality of people's suffering is very hard to sit with and deal with because that to me is signaling that there's not relief and there's not going to be relief, if anything, it's going to get worse.

Yeah. So one day you have abortions on the schedule and the next day now. Yep. And, you know, this again happened last spring, right? When the Texas governor and the Attorney General issued an executive order banning abortion. So we've been through this before, but this time it was on and off just one time, right? We had a brief maybe 48 hours where access was restored when Judge Pittman issued his order. But this is something we've been through before. And it is, of course, difficult for me and the folks that I work with, the nurses and the surgical texts to be able to see patients and tell them that, you know, you can come back tomorrow and then all of a sudden you can't. But it's even harder for the patients because it's just

confusing to them, right? What do you mean? I can't care. Why not? Where do I go? Is there another clinic. They're trying to think about what their next option is and why they can't access the care that they need and what are they going to do next. And it's very difficult to sit with them and say there's no logical, sensible reason for why you can't get the care you need. It's just what politicians and courts or whoever making these decisions in faraway buildings has decided and what we have to comply with. And it's just simply unfair, unjust, inhumane, unethical. It violates my conscience as a physician of what I should be doing, which is taking care of my patients and providing them with safe health care. And it's very unsettling. The thing I think about a lot is

this is not about decreasing abortion. Because there are ways to decrease abortion, birth control, and, you know, sex ad and IUDs. I mean, there are a real way, like this is really about taking back control. Of course, abortion is a good thing. It is a moral choice for so many people, right? And I have no issue with abortion. I think many people who have abortions don't have an issue with it. And of course, if somebody wants to use contraception, that is an option, right? But at the end of the day, it's, you know, I think anytime we try to make sense of what the opposition is doing, anytime we try to use logic, it is just a waste of our time, right? This is a politicized issue. I think if you were to ask many people who oppose abortion, why, if you ask even the politicians

who push this agenda, it's, I don't think they have strong, there's no logic behind it. There's no valid logic. It has just become politicized. It is a talking point. It is something that people vote on. The wiring has already happened in their brains to oppose abortion without understanding it. And I think we need to accept that as a fact and just not waste our time and energy and thinking, well, okay, maybe this law makes sense. Or maybe this is what they're thinking.

Or maybe this is where they're going. They're not. Right. No, I think that's a good point. So what is abortion like in Texas right now? Well, it's drastically reduced from what we were doing and the number of people we can help is far less than what we could. So we're still seeing patients. I saw patients this morning for their first ultrasound. Of course, even outside of SB 8, we have so many restrictions that we have to

comply with. And those are still in place even under this harsh law. So people have to come in for two visits. They have to have ultrasounds done by the same physician who does the abortion. We have to give them inaccurate information about breast cancer and infertility. So all of that is still happening. And then some patients qualify for an abortion. Can you just tell our listeners what the inaccurate, we heard from another doctor what the inaccurate information about breast cancer is, but can you tell us what the inaccurate information about fertility is? Yeah. So part of the counseling that we have to do in Texas says that there is a possibility of having problems with infertility in the future, even though that risk is so small and it's not common. It's not anything

that anybody needs to worry about. It's based on old information and old ways of doing abortions, which we don't do anymore. But we still have to mention it. And I think, you know, for many people, just when they're accessing abortion, which has so much stigma, just hearing the word infertility is triggering. Even if we're saying no infertility or yes, like whatever we might be saying, sometimes for some people that are so stressed and so worried because of the stigma around abortion, it's just that association can be very triggering and difficult for them to hear. So the state makes us say those words and share that information with people, even though it's inaccurate. Continue. So you were talking about you can do abortion still on some patients.

Right. So some people are able to get the care that they need in Texas. There are some people that would qualify for an abortion under SB 8 on the first day, but then on the second day, we detect the cardiac motion, so then we have to say, you know, we're going to refer you out of state. And that's what we're doing with a lot of the patients that don't qualify for an abortion. On the first day or the second day is letting them know that, you know, you can still have an abortion. It is still safe to do. It's still legal to do, just not in Texas. And we have patient navigators and a care coordination team that we've put together since we had to start complying with Senate and Bill 8. And they help.

people figure out where they might go, what they need to get there, if they need financial help with travel, with the cost of the care in the other states, with, you know, staying at a hotel overnight or child care or whatever else, food, gas, right, all the things that they're going to need now to get to that state. We try to help them work through those things to get there. So it just looks very different. I'd say like, you know, half of our team is just coordinating care out of state or coordinating follow-up care if they need it once they come back to Texas. So like you said, these restrictions don't stop the need for abortion. It's just displacing people into other states. Yeah. What will you do if you can't provide abortion in Texas anymore?

I'm a family medicine physician. I provide abortions. I also do primary care, trans care. So I'm not as worried about, you know, what I'm going to do, right? And so I think what's important for me, personally, in thinking about what this future looks like is we have to stay in the places where people need us, even if I can't provide that care because of whatever happens with the Supreme Court or state laws, but people need us to be here. There's providing information, taking care of people before or after their abortions, if they're not getting them in the state. there's, you know, building change from the ground up. It is connecting with community orgs, abortion funds,

because we know that abortion is always going to be needed. We know that people need to know that they're making the right choice for them. They need to feel supported. So there's still work to be done. It's just going to look very different for me. Obviously, I'm not going to be providing abortions if it's illegal. But it's going to look different. And I still believe in our ability to create that change.

And again, I think living in this reality, is very different from what I thought it might have been. And so we're learning as we go forward. But there's a number of other states that are coming behind us. And so we can help them figure out things that we now know based on, you know, the last hundred plus days. So the work will continue. It's just going to look very different.

But, you know, we can't give up on people that need abortions. Thank you so much. That was great. Thank you. What's crazier than QAnon, more outlandish than Pizza Gate? And scarier than a Mexican getaway with Ted Cruz? The answer is, what the American right? wing as planned next.

Be one of the first to listen to Fever Dreams, new podcasts from The Daily Beast, tracking the conspiracy slingers, orange acolytes, and straight-up grifters pushing to retake power. Every Wednesday hosts Swin Tsubisang and Will Summer, checking in on the movement of the radical right. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash podcasts

or your favorite podcast player to catch the first episode and get subscribed. That's Fever Dreams, which you can subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts. Andy Levy. Molly John Fast. You're never going to get tired of saying my name. I'm not.

It's a very fun name to say. Important thing to talk about, of the zombie magazines that still exist, but just barely, there's zombie newsweek. Oh, you mean the zombie website that got me harassed all through the weekend because Andy Neo published a article on Mantifa got busted and one of them had my name and so I had Breitbart reporters calling my place of business all weekend. Love that site. No way.

Turns out Jesse is an Antifa captain. One of our listeners who wrote a really good thing in that we should change the Monday.com to Monday. Monday.com keeps me so organized that I could lead Antifa in San Diego and run a podcast business in New York. Yeah, but I got my YouTube comments and DMs got destroyed because I had the same name as this guy all weekend because Andy Neo's readers are the stupidest people on earth. Oh, God. But more importantly, besides getting Chessie harassed, which is kind of fun, Time magazine is also a zombie publication, but it still has the person of the year, which it seems to give to people who have bad haircuts.

And this year, it gave it to one Elon Mush. I don't think that's how you pronounce his last name, Molly. No, I'm pretty sure it is. But I mean, sure, man, sure. What do you think about that? I will back this, but not for the reasons that they gave. I will back this for Elon Musk exposing for all to see what a lot of people already knew, but not everyone, that the stock market is a complete and total dishonest piece of Las Vegas-style gambling shit.

and that he was able to tank stocks and raise stocks just by tweeting dumb stuff shows how disconnected the stock market is from reality. And I think that's something more people need to know. And so I'll give it to them for that. But that's, of course, not why they gave it. That's not why they gave it. I mean, I also think there's a really good lesson here about how government subsidies can make people rich, right?

That's a pretty good lesson. Like Elon Musk. That is a very good lesson, and it makes them rich and then able to rail against government subsidies. It's the government subsidies. Yeah. Well, the irony is pretty fucking rich, but you really do see how we need to have more targeted. I mean, I as a big government person who really believes that government can do great things for people, or at least the bare fucking minimum, I'm pretty pissed off when I see that my, you know, green energy supplements tax dollars have made this asshole. a billionaire. And so for that, I am grateful to Elon Marsh. The other, look, the other reason that he's a great choice is that he is one of those guys that during, during lockdown and when everybody was hurting, he found a way to make himself insanely richer. And we need to be talking more about that, how that's been happening in this

country. So, so really, if you look at it, they made a great choice. They just didn't use any of the good reasons for that great choice. It's true. It's true. And I would add, like, one of the great things about him is he now has this incredibly terrible haircut. But it's clear that no one has told him that it's a bad haircut because he's so rich. So we can have a conversation about being as narcissists surrounded by sycophants.

That is something that I would do if I suspected that I was surrounded by a bunch of yes men and yes women and wanted to find out for sure and wasn't. happy about it. I would cut my hair like that and see if anyone told me that I looked like a goober. And if nobody did, I would fire all of them and hire people who would actually tell the truth. But I suspect that he does not have that same personality trait. I think not. But that's exactly what I would do if I suspected that the people around me were not telling me the truth. Yeah, I think that's right.

Well, there you have it. Andy, who's your fuck-that guy since Elon Mush was my fuck-that-guy. Oh, so my fuck that guy is Rand Paul, the undistinguished gentleman from Kentucky. Senator Rand Paul, as you may know, has a very, very rich history of opposing federal aid money for disasters. You know, things like Hurricane Sandy and Hurricane Maria, Hurricane Harvey, pretty much every other hurricane and natural disaster. But he somehow found it within himself to finally recognize the value of federal aid. for natural disasters after his home state was hit by these horrible storms and tornadoes over the past weekend. He wrote a letter to President Biden asking that he, quote, move expeditiously to get money there.

And now two things. One, first, obviously, Kentucky should get whatever federal aid money it needs. And I don't care how awful Rand Paul is. That has no bearing on this. But second, Senator Paul should be asked exactly how he, Mr. principled, constitutionalist supported this aid while voting against aid for other parts of the country. He should be asked this constantly, continually. Remember his Hurricane Sandy speech? Yeah. I don't care if he's at dinner. Like interrupt this fucker's dinner and say, hey, how come you just asked for aid to your home state of Kentucky, but you didn't, but you thought

it was horrible that the thought of sending aid to any other part of the country when they had similar problems. This is not something he should be able to run from. This is not something that people should just say should just roll their eyes and let go because, oh, well, you know, it's his own state. That's why he's doing it. He should be hammered on this for the rest of his life as far as I'm concerned. And that's why I say fuck that guy. So you want people to disturb him during meals? I absolutely do. I absolutely do. Hard agree. And steal his food. Like as you're disturbing him, use your fingers and have some of his mashed potatoes. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast.

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