The Daily Beast Podcast - Biden’s Meeting With Xi Could Thaw ‘Deep Freeze’ With China

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi tells The New Abnormal that Joe Biden’s sit down with the Chinese President next week will be the first in almost a year and the best chance to ease increased Chinese aggression. Plus, The Daily Beast’s Deputy Politics Editor Sam Brodey breaks down the “Idiot Symposium” otherwise known as this week’s Republican presidential debate. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world. Our new abnormal.

And hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. What an excellent show we have today. Congressman Roger Krishnamorthy is here to talk about his work serving on the Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the United States and the Chinese Communist Party. Then we'll talk to Daily Beast Politics Editor Sam Brody, who will break down this week's election results, Glenn Young's failed political future, and the Idiot Symposium that some people called the Republican presidential debate. But first, let's have some fun. So sometimes as I prepare, Andy, for these GOP debates, and I prepare to listen to the fuckery that comes out of these people's mouths, there is no one I can't stand more.

I'm going to be honest with you. And I'm so thankful that we don't have to listen to her every day is Sarah Huckabee Sanders. But she made such a beautiful, brilliant point. It's just so clear for all of us to understand what this election is really about. It's not even a question anymore between right and left. It is normal versus crazy and the left is doubling down on crazy. Yeah. Crazy about democracy.

Crazy about freedom. Crazy about liberty and justice for all people. What did the comedian say about her and her smoky eye shadow? all of those things were true. She uses the lies that she spreads and spreads them across her eyelids. But that was probably the best birthday gift that I could receive, which is Sarah Huckabee Sanders probably writing a new ad for the Biden administration. The decision isn't between left or right.

It isn't between Republican or Democrat. It is between crazy and normal. So which one do we want? Well, if we look at the results from this week, it seems like we don't want crazy and that despite what Sarah Huckabee Sanders may think, most people think the crazy is in the Republican Party these days. It was a great election day for Democrats pretty much across the board. Ohio, Virginia, Kentucky governor, all of these broke the Democrats way. And in pretty much all of these instances, there was one. big reason for it and it was abortion and it was you know I haven't seen the demographic breakdown so I don't know if it was if it was women getting out there I suspect that was a lot of it women getting out there and basically saying get your hands off my body as they've been saying for untold decades now but it was clear proof I think that in a post Dobbs world the Republicans are losing on

abortion. And I wish they didn't have to lose on abortion. I wish abortion was not an issue because it was just the right of every woman to choose. But in a world where that's not the case, it is at least good that we are seeing unbelievable pushback because it's now, this is two elections in a row where we've seen this. So, you know, I think that's enough. I don't know if you need three to call it a trend, but I'm comfortable calling it a trend with two, where abortion, whether it's on the ballot specifically like it was in Ohio or whether it's not specifically on the ballot, but it might as well be in a state like Virginia where Governor Glenn Yonkin had already talked about if he got both houses of that state's legislature. They would be passing 15-week

abortion bans or whatever ban it is that they want. And the voters said, hell no, and in fact gave both houses of the state legislature to the Democrats. So again, whether abortion is specifically on the ballot or whether it's just an issue that is not specifically on the ballot, it does seem to be the issue these days. And what is funny is that for so long, Democrats, up until Dobbs and Roe was stolen from us after nearly 50 years of women and people with uteruses having bodily autonomy, Democrats had never wanted to touch abortion, had never wanted to really say the word abortion. They would say in their bios that you could look up that they, were a pro-choice, but they would never talk about it. And so when you now have this decision that

came out by the Supreme Court, we saw the outrage when it was leaked, and then the decision was made final. And these states said to people, okay, well, we have these trigger laws that are in place. And so immediately, protections became a patchwork issue across the United States. When you have stories about an Ohio 10-year-old girl that had to leave the state to go to a matchwork issue across the United States, girl that had to leave the state to go to a neighboring state after being raped. And you have these governors and Republicans coming out and saying like, there are no exceptions whatsoever. Like, I just don't understand what they thought was going to happen. That people were just going to roll over and say, well, I guess it was a good run and just give up on freedoms that they had had for nearly 50 years

to be able to decide whether or not they wanted to have children. The horror stories that we heard from women testifying from places like Texas who were forced to go into the parking lot and wait to have to go into sepsis in order to get the care that they needed so that they wouldn't die on top of needing to have an emergency abortion. I think that this Republican Party is wildly out of touch, that they genuinely do not care. They don't care about families. They don't care about children. And they sure as hell don't care about women. And I think that what this has signaled over the last, what is it now, close to two years or a year and a half, I don't know, time is a vortex. Since that decision came down, we have seen marches and every time that this issue goes to the ballot box,

it loses. The Republicans spent, Andy, $28 million in Ohio to try and make certain that they would not enshrine abortion protections into their constitution. $28 million. And they lost because the people decided that you don't get to decide what we do with our bodies and when. And I think that we're going to see more of this. Yeah. And they lost bigly, as that guy likes to say. They lost bigly. And another thing that lost bigly, sort of across the country, I don't think it's as big a momentum thing for Democrats as abortion and reproductive rights in general are, but it's still a big thing. Moms for Liberty, that absolutely vile anti-trans, anti-gay, just anti-queer in general group, lost bigly. They lost all across the country in trying

to get people on school boards, and they lost big in Virginia, they lost big in Ohio, they lost big in Pennsylvania. This is part of the big Republican-slas-conservative anti-woke push. Time and time again, what we are seeing is that when push comes to shove, most Americans want those people to kind of shut up and to stop doing what they're doing and to stop trying to ban books and to stop trying to harass kids in some cases we see because a girl may have a short haircut and she's on the swim team or something. They want their genitals investigated and stuff like this. It feels like, and thank God for it, and I hope it's true, and I hope this is a trend that continues. It seems like most Americans are basically like, fuck you to those people.

We're talking about school board elections here, which are very, very important at local levels. But to bring this to a national level, this is obviously, this is like a key plank of the modern day Republican Party is all this anti-trans, anti-gay, anti-queer stuff. And to see it failing at local levels over and over and over again, it at least gives us a little bit of consolation and a little bit of hope that the country as a whole is not as mean and as cruel as these people are. Yeah. And I'm glad that you said that, Andy, because the reality is, is that we have to be reminded that this is the minority. They are just loud. But it is not the majority of the way that people think. People want their kids to have to have. critical thought, to have empathy and compassion, not to be narrowed and made to feel small. We went through it. You know, folks remember, in the beginning of the 2000s and into the 2010s, there were so many LGBTQ kids that were being bullied into suicide.

And so there are real life consequences of these types of actions. And I want folks to understand, too, that there is no difference between moms for liberty, the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys. They are a hate group. They just put mom in their title to make it seem like warm and cute and fuzzy. But the cookies that they bake have like the fucking clan on them.

At the top of one of their newsletters was a quote from Hitler. Their whole ideology around controlling the minds of youth is based on Hitler's premise of if you control the youth, you control the future. I just think that what is really important and what Republicans and this whole MAGA wave has done over the last several years is really call attention to how important local and state elections really are. That for years, decades,

Democrats have only been focused on Congress. They've only been focused on the presidency. And as we have seen as the Supreme Court has been taken over by right-wing zealots and rights are being stripped away, that it is up to the states and these localities to decide whether they're going to enforce laws or not. And so it is important who is on our school boards, city councils, commissions in the state houses to be able to do what the people of Virginia have now done, which is flip the house, hold on to the Senate, to block, you know, that vest-wearing motherfucker who is, again, trying to be the softer version of Donald Trump, but with the sleep. same ideology. He wanted a 15-week abortion ban that is not going to happen because the people of

Virginia came out and said no. Yeah, I am hopeful that one of the consequences of this election is that I can stop seeing puff pieces about Glenn Yonkin in mainstream media. And like you said, trying to portray him as this soft, likable guy. Please remember that he won his governorship based on a lot of the same stuff that moms of liberty and groups like that lost on across the country, not just this week, but also last year. Again, a trend. I don't want to hear any more about him. I don't want to hear any more about his stupid motherfucking vests.

I just, you know, I just stopped myself from making a bad pun. I'm definitely not feeling well. But it looks like the new, you know, the new rising star governor, at least of the moment. is a Democrat. And that's Andy Bashir in Kentucky, who in a very red state won his reelection and won it pretty handily. And in fact, in one county, a county that Donald Trump had won by close to 60 points in 2020, not in 2016, in 2020. Bashir won that county and he won at 53-47. So I don't know that Andy Bashir is the future of the Democratic Party. And I suspect that he's from a very red state. And I'm assuming he is a fairly moderate slash conservative Democrat.

But if nothing else, it shows that even in a deep red state like Kentucky, there are lines that people won't cross. I think what's important to note here, too, about Kentucky, about Ohio, about these places. Kentucky is a state that we have, again, as a party, do not truly invest in. Because the assumption is that these places are deep red and there are no inroads to make. And so we just hand them to the Republican Party and don't put any work and investment in them. And you can look at the work over decades in Georgia turned Georgia blue. You can look at what is happening in places like Kentucky by reelecting their Democratic governor. And sure, is he the most progressive?

No, but he sure as hell is not Maga. He's not a fake Democrat like Mansion. And so I think that it's really important for us to recognize that we should not be giving up. on regions of the country. As a matter of fact, we should be doubling down and investing in them and creating a pipeline that gives our democracy and our country a fighting fucking chance. And again, I want people to know that like Daniel Cameron was 100% backed by Donald Trump. Trump, every time he touches something, someone, it turns to shit. That's just what like, that man does not have a Midas touch.

Whatever is the opposite of a Midas touch is what Donald Trump has. Speaking of things that turn to shit, my God, Andy, you subject yourself to a lot of things. And one of them is consistently, is consistently the GOP debate. I prefer to read the transcripts as opposed to ingesting it. But let me tell you that everyone's least favorite human, this is what we can decide to agree on, I think, across party lines, is that no one likes for Vecramuswami. Not one fucking person. But to watch Nikki Haley, under her breath, but directly into the microphone, call him scum. It's just to, like, it was just an encapsulation of how our politics, how decorum, how, like, just dignity for the office holder has just fallen.

Do I think that the Vak Ramoswamy is a piece of trash? Absolutely. But do I want these people that are actually running for the high? highest office of the land to act the way that these people did on camera, absolutely fucking not. Look, I haven't seen a collection of unlikable people like this since the last time Ted Cruz was alone in a room. It is just unbelievable. And I do have to say, Danielle, despite your intro about what I put myself through, I did not watch this particular debate. Okay. Due to what I am calling the woke stomach virus.

The main reason I didn't watch this debate. Well, I actually didn't watch it because I've been sick, but I would have watched it otherwise. But the thing is, these debates feel like those mock trials that you have in like that high school students do or college students do. And they're very important to the people participating in him. But there are absolutely no relevance to the outside world. And that's what these debates are. These debates are of no relevance to the Republican election. Donald Trump is the nominee.

All of these people, they're there for whatever reason. None of them are there to be president or to be the Republican nominee in 2024. I obviously, I read about the debate and then I watched clips. And it's just, it's like, it's Ron DeSantis's boots. It's Nikki Haley calling Vivek Ramoswamy scum. It's Tim Scott in his very sort of mild-mannered way calling for us to bomb Iran. It's, again, every candidate calling for us to bomb Mexico. It's Ramoswami saying we need to build the wall on our northern border.

And it's just, it's like one insane thing after another. And I would like to be thankful that none of these people are going to be president, except that the other option is going to be Donald Trump. And absolutely, it's completely lose, lose for everyone. It's an absolute embarrassment. And then I see that the next one is going to be one of the moderators is going to be Megan Kelly. Oh, for the love of God. And I'm just like, you know what, I'm not watching that one either.

If I have to watch Megan Kelly do a debate, y'all, my eyes are going to be bleeding out of there, whatever. So good. What is the point? There is no point to watching these debates. They are utterly, utterly meaningless. They are taking place in a parallel world where Donald Trump is not the nominee. It would be one thing if they were fun or if they were informative and if there was even one likable character. But it's like trying to watch a TV show where you don't like anything.

any of the characters. I guess some people are into that. I can't do that. Like, I got to have someone to root for. And I got no one to root for you. No one is redeemable. They're all caricatures of trash. They're all caricatures of the worst kind of person embodied by Haley, by Desanis.

The idea that there are even talks of folks saying, well, this person isn't so bad. I'm like, are we looking at the same thing? Like are we are we listening to the same people? I would not trust these people to run anything. Like anything, let alone the fucking country. A million years ago when I got into politics, like it was fun. It was enjoyable. There is nothing enjoyable about this.

There is nothing enjoyable to think that an entire party, this is the best that they could fucking put up to go against Donald Trump, a man that doesn't even know what fucking year it is, that is like defending himself. in multiple trials. You have an opportunity to go deep and figure out who could be your next leader and this is the slate? No, I agree with all of that. And all you're going to get if you watch these things is 90 minutes or 120 minutes of lies. And there's just absolutely no point to it. And before we close, Danielle, I am, I'm not going to sing you happy birthday because me

singing is the worst possible birthday present that anyone. I'm fact-checking this. I've heard Andy sing before on a record. You have never heard me sing. Did you not sing on that record? Hell no. Oh, I thought you sang a little. No, I do not sing. And the only creature that has ever heard me sing is my cat. And even she is like, can you please stop? So I will be wishing you happy birthday, but I will not be singing you happy. Happy birthday, Danielle. Thank you.

Folks, I am very happy to welcome to the new abnormal Congressman Raja Krishna Murthy, who represents the 8th Congressional District of Illinois and is also on a number of important committees,

chairs a number of important committees that have to do with the issue that we talk about often, that we seem to be paying attention to more. which is our foreign affairs and our relationship with countries such as China, where we find ourselves in the news quite a bit. Congressman, there is an important meeting that is going to take place next week. I don't know if it's going to receive necessarily the type of press that it warrants, given the fact that there is so much happening globally. But you are the ranking

member of the House Select Committee on Strategic Competition between the United States and China. I want to give you an opportunity to talk about what we can anticipate in this upcoming meeting and why it should be on our radar. Well, this is the first meeting between the leader of the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party, Xi Jinping, and of course our president, Joe Biden in almost a year. and in that time there's been tremendous tension. Of course, probably many of your listeners have heard about the balloon that transverse the United States earlier this year. And it kind of sent the relationship into a deep freeze. And as a consequence, we have seen aggression increase

economically in terms of more cyber hacking, more intellectual property theft, more dumping of goods that hurt our businesses. We've seen an increased crackdown on human rights. We've seen more military aggression, including all kinds of near catastrophic incidents over the South China Sea or in the Taiwan Strait in the Indo-Pacific region. And so it's really important that the two leaders come together after another series of meetings that have occurred, you know, at lower levels of government to basically talk about the outstanding issues in the relationship. relationship, hopefully come up with some productive next steps and get to a better place than where we are right now, which is it feels a little bit unstable at the moment.

I'm glad that you brought up the security issue because so much has happened in my mind, Congressman, I kind of thought that was last year, the spy balloon. And it happened not once, but I believe multiple times over the course of this year. And all of the things that you have named, as the ranking member of this House Select Committee, what does this signal to you about the stakes right now between the United States and China as we are watching the United States globally begin to backslide in our own democracy and really try and fight our way back economically to a better place than the whole that the prior administration put us in? It's a great question, Danielle.

Let me just mention a couple things real quick. One is that most of your listeners probably know that the People's Republic of China, which is governed by the Chinese Communist Party, has been on the economic rise for the last 30 years. And a lot of people think it's because we in the West, and specifically in America, you know, we basically put money and profits ahead of perhaps our values and our interests in allowing them unfettered access to our market,

without really a lot of strings. So even if they use slave labor and produce some of these goods, okay, it was allowed to enter the United States. Even if some of the companies that were allowed to do business with us are helping to modernize their nuclear program and steal secrets from us that they then use to endanger our national security, we kind of turn the other way. And yet now we're kind of at a point where a lot of people are really fearful that if we let them continue to do this, it'll not only hollow out, hollow out parts of our economy,

but we could also potentially enter into a conflict with them. Recently, a poll came out showing a majority of voters think that there's at least a 50-50 chance that the U.S. will be in a significant war with China in the next 10 years. And the interesting thing, Danielle, is that 75% roughly of Democrats and 75% of Republicans, by the way, want us to do everything in our power to avoid war. And so it's kind of come to the situation where as we try to come back economically, we're going to have to contend with protecting our interests and our values relative to the CCP, beat them in the competition for innovation and technologies of the future, and invest in our people to make sure they're equipped to work

in those technologies of the future. And then finally, work with our friends, partners and allies around the world to do the same. Because we're kind of in a situation where if the CCP is trying to undermine certain values of democracy, human rights, freedom, liberty, all the values that we hold near and dear, we're going to have to lock arms with our friends and partners to say, look, these are values that we care so deeply about that we're going to establish rules to ensure that they are protected. You know, let me ask you this because as you were making the very distinct differences in terms of values that we have had with the Chinese government, you know, I can't help

but think, Congressman, about your colleagues across the aisle, the Republicans, particularly those inside of the House, who have signaled their desire for democracy to die. They have signaled with their desire to burn books, to ban books, to change curriculum in order, as Ron DeSantis sat down in Florida, to get back to the quote-unquote basics. And what you're talking about right now is being able to compete in a level of innovation. And so how do you see how we see this current iteration of the Republican Party being in the way or an obstacle to our ability to continue to compete globally? and train and educate critically, American citizens, students, and those that are in the workforce

that are in an evolving trade to be able to compete. If we're not only battling globally outside with competitors like China, but inside with a Republican Party that is regressive. It's a great point, Danielle. I think that Donald Trump,

for all his chest thumping with regard to China, did so much to, in my opinion, undermine our position, our competitive position with regard to China. And by the way, I just want to make one point as well, which is that you don't beat the CCP in a global economic competition by practicing bigotry or prejudice or hatred toward Chinese origin people or Asian Americans or labeling COVID as Kung Flu.

You don't do those things. The way that you compete is to radically revitalize. our American ideals and to make sure that we live up to the promise, the full promise of what makes America exceptional. What does that mean? It means making sure that our people, we invest in our people. That means that we upskill them to be able to work in technology of the future. We invest in public education, K through 12, STEM education, so that they're able to participate in artificial intelligence and quantum and robotics and nanoscale computing for the future. We also fix the problems with our immigration system right now, which basically are pushing away

the very people, the high-skilled, but the most hardworking entrepreneurial and the best and the brightest from around the world who want to come here. It's as though we had the first round draft pick in every country around the world to Mexico, send me your very best people. India, send me your very best people. And they came here and we said, you know what, we don't want you. That's crazy. We can't win the competition against the CCP unless we have the people. And then finally, we also revitalize America by investing in our partnerships with our friends, partners, and allies around the world. We don't push them away. We don't cozy up to authoritarian regimes and push away democratic ones. We do the opposite.

And so you're right. Republicans sometimes talk a big game about China. I have to say a lot of the members of my committee are exceptions to what the conventional attitude is in the party. But with regard to the conventional attitude in the party, they are not helpful in the competition with the CCP right now. What you are stating and what you were offering makes so much sense. And I think that what troubles me, going back to your earlier statement about Americans fearing that we could head in. to war with China in the next 10 years, I think in all honesty, Congressman, my fear is much sooner than that. As we're watching this new kind of axes form, as we're seeing war in the Middle East, and we're seeing these situations present opportunities for China, for Russia, I'm wondering if you were to be inside of that meeting in that room, what would be your top three for Xi Jinping to say that would get us back on track at a moment when the friction and the tension and the consequences are just so high right now for everyone? Top three things. I think that first of all, we have to open a direct military to military communications dialogue.

between the CCP and the United States, that does not exist today, believe it or not. There is no hotline. There is no direct communications channel. We could easily de-conflict a lot of potential crises and reduce the chance of catastrophic collisions and other accidents by having such a military-to-military communications channel. And oh, by the way, we can use that communications channel, along with our diplomatic channels, to help to reduce tensions in other parts of the world. The CCP is very tied to the Iranians. And the Iranians have not been playing a very helpful role to say the least in the Middle East. They also, the CCP has a very close tie with Russia. And we all your listeners know about the criminal invasion of Ukraine. The CCP can play

a productive role in lowering temperatures across the world. having more direct communications with us and trying to figure out how do we work together on some of these issues. The second thing is I'd like to see them talk about how do we lower economic aggression. That's something that my constituents bring to my attention all the time, Danielle. I don't know a single person who has not been hacked at this point. In testimony before our committee, believe it or not, Danielle, there was expert testimony that 80% of American personal information is in the hands of the CCP at this point. And that information is used in all kinds of ways that are very dangerous potentially to our economic and other types of well-being.

That has to stop, the hacking, the intellectual property theft, and so forth. The third thing that I would like to see happen is I would like to see the president talk about human rights a little more. It can't be just a side issue anymore, Danielle. There's a side happening in Xinjiang. in province against the Uyghurs as we speak. There's a cultural genocide happening with regard to the Tibetans. There's repression of the Hong Kongers and dissidents throughout China. I'd like to see the CCP take steps to reduce and to eliminate those practices. And by the way, they pay attention when we bring up these issues to their attention at these meetings.

You know, and the last question that I have for you, because I agree with the three, avenues that you would be focused on. The last point with regard to humanitarian issues, I think is incredibly important. However, you know, the response has been from Xi Jinping and others when we go as a country to wag our fingers at the humanitarian abuses that are happening in other nations while also having the ability to perpetuate said violence, right, in our own country, as well as aid in abet violence that is happening in other places. is we get side-eyed to be, you know, to be quite frank. And so what would be the response to why don't you mind your own house first before you come

over here to mind ours? I think the response has to be we need to mind our own house. We are not perfect. We are far from perfect. But for you to deny that there are any issues and that your issues are somehow the same as ours where there's literally a genocide happening against the Uyghur people, 23 million people in Xinjiang province, I think is probably something that we have to point out time and again. And can I just say one last thing on that point? Because we also, if we are going to really,

you know, talk the talk, we have to walk the walk. And part of it is what you said with regard to making sure that we treat all people equally in our own country. But also, if we really mean what we say about human rights within China and elsewhere, but specifically in China or with the Uyghurs, then we're going to have to link economic benefits to those human rights. So what do I mean by that? There's something called the Uyghur-Forced Labor Prevention Act. It was a huge bipartisan piece of legislation that was signed into law, but it's not enforced. So if we're going to actually talk about human rights in China or the Uyghur genocide, then let's enforce the laws on our books that are meant to try to combat that particular issue.

Well, we will leave it there today, Congressman Krishna-Murthy, I thank you so much for the work that you're doing, for the issues that you are raising and for making the time to join us on the new abnormal. Hey, thanks, Danielle. Thanks for paying attention to these issues that we're covering. Tuesday may have been an off-year election day, but it was about as good a day as possible for the Democratic Party. for the Republicans, they had a presidential debate on Wednesday where they could show America

they're actually a bunch of serious people who should be trusted to run the government. I'm joking, of course. But here to be at least slightly more serious is Daily Beast deputy politics editor, Sam, thanks for joining us. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having us. So let's start with the elections. Ohio, Kentucky, Virginia, three states where abortion was either on the ballot or might as well have been three states where people who believe in a woman's right to choose one decisive victory. correct? Yeah, I mean, I think this is as strong and clear a message from voters in a variety. You know, this is a very diverse swath of states. And they all kind of returned a similar result, which was, you know, affirming abortion access and wanting leaders who would protect it.

So in Ohio's case, they literally voted on whether to enshrine abortion rights into the state constitution about referendum called issue one. That passed. by a very, very solid margin. I think it was about 13 points. So, I mean, in that case, literally they were voting on it. But in Virginia and Kentucky, you know, voters also elevated candidates who campaigned on securing abortion access and made it a critical part of their platforms. So Governor Amy Beshear in Kentucky won a second term against Attorney General Daniel Cameron, kind of a protege of Mitch McConnell. Bashir really put abortion front and center in his campaign and kind of have one of the more memorable ads of recent years featuring a woman calling out

Dana Cameron's abortion policy with no exceptions. And then in Virginia, no governor or anything was on the ballot, but there was control of the state legislature on the ballot, the state senate and the state house. And I think this was really super interesting because Glenn Yonkin had really invested a ton of literal capital, fundraising cash, as well as political capital, to get the legislature under his control and have, you know, unified government enrichment. And he tested out basically, you know, what he thought would pay off as a gamble in terms of messaging around abortion. He kind of thought, look, you know, I'm going to tell voters that we're going to enact a 15-week ban. There's been this

idea I'm all Republicans that they could kind of stake out a middle ground here, say what they're for, and call out Democrats for not endorsing any kind of limits or something. And so this was sort of a test case for whether they could do that. Well, Democrats hammered basically every Republican candidate in a competitive district about this. The proof came out on Tuesday night. Not only did Democrats hold their majority in the state Senate. They also flip control of the state house of delegates. So they are in better shape now there than they were before. And when he only located instead of having a unified legislature, Republican to work with, he has an entirely Democratic majority across the board that he's going to have to pretend that. It's kind of wild to me that someone like Yonkin,

who as recently as, I don't know, 20 minutes ago probably has been touted as a presidential prospect for the Republicans, could look at the results from last year and think, oh, what the voters want is abortion bans. Yeah, no, absolutely. And to be clear, this result should scuttle any talk that Glenn Yonkin would mount a late presidential run in 2024, which was already going to be a pretty unlikely scenario, an implausible scenario as it was, he is not going to do that. And I think, in fact, today or yesterday, he said that he was not going to do it. So, but yeah, I think in Munkin's approach, you know, reflected

two sort of, you know, ways of thinking about this in the Republican Party. I think one was they, they really did believe that, of course, they acknowledged that they lost an abortion in 2022, couldn't figure out a good way to talk about it. There was all this backlash to the Dobbs decision and that they, you know, lost a bunch of key races last year because of it. And I think they did believe that voters would care less about this in 2023 and the further we get away from the Dobbs decision. Obviously, the results on Tuesday are pretty clear proof that voters do, in fact, still care about this issue and they're still fired up enough about it to go to the polls in pretty big numbers. But I think the other part of this sort of, you know, Yonkin gambled that he could be the guy

to show Republicans nationally how to message around a board. abortion. And, you know, there's been an interesting discussion that's percolated, it percolated on the debate stage last night for the presidential candidates. It's percolated online and among Republican strategists and elected officials that if they can just figure out how to talk about abortion, how to put forward a unified message in the post-Obs world that isn't, oh, well, you know, abortion should be illegal and it's immoral and bad, but the state should make their own decisions. And, you know, like, it's a total hodgepodge of a message and it has not obviously worked for them. Youngkin sort of bet that by outlining a specific policy, talking about it in the way that

they believe would be the right way, that they could figure out a path forward for Republicans not to get destroyed on this issue. And obviously, it didn't work. And so now what we're seeing kind of is Republicans in real time sort of picking up the pieces from this and really wondering, is there a way that we can talk about this that won't end up with us losing elections? Yeah. I mean, look, it does seem like the biggest thing that came out of that election was, as you say, it turns out that them trying to triangulate on the issue of abortion isn't going to work for them. And another sort of lesser covered thing coming out of the debate, a good thing, is that maybe I won't have to read any more glowing write-ups of Yon and his

dumb vest jacket, because I think that's important too. But you wrote a piece for the beast with the headline, House GLP finally realizes its anti-abortion policies might be politically toxic. So talk about this on the federal level and what you're hearing from Congress? Yeah, no, it's a really interesting question. Yesterday was a very fascinating day to be talking to House Republicans about abortion. You know, this would have been Wednesday after election day. It's been kind of an open question what House Republicans might do with their new majority as it relates to abortion policy. I mean, you know, it cannot be overstated how much House Republicans traditionally, and especially in the minority, have pushed anti-abortion legislation. They have had organized pushes around it for

years and years. They are a, you know, adamantly anti-abortion conference. And now that they actually have the power to move legislation, which happened the year after the Dobbs decision came down, you know, they had been very, very reluctant to really push anything resembling, forget a national abortion ban, but even kind of narrower, more, you know, meager measures on this. And so, you know, Mike Johnson takes the speakership last month, probably one of the, if not the most anti-abortion member of the House Republican Conference. And, you know, it's an open question like, okay, this guy's personal politics are so strong. Is this going to have any implications on how Republicans move abortion policy? And so we were really interested to check in with that in the wake

of these election results, which have really shown the lack of appetite that voters have for any kind of abortion restrictions. And kind of what we found were Republicans grappling with the implications of all of this in real time. I mean, I think that the quotes that we got were unusually candid. You know, Dan Crenshaw, for instance, Republican from Texas, who's pretty conservative, but not in the like, you know, far right wing. He's kind of openly feuded with those types of people, you know, talk to us and said, look, you know, I'm very pro-life.

This is a moral stance for me. However, we have not yet won the culture. That's the quote he used and really was unwilling or kind of maybe not able to come down. on what it was that House Republicans should do about this. I think he kind of ultimately arrived at a place that we're all in a lot of different spots. You know, there's no legislation that that we could push that would unify the party whatsoever. And so they're kind of at a loss. And, you know, some of the more vulnerable Republicans certainly were like one guy from New York, Mark Molanaro from the Hudson Valley said basically, you know, we got to listen to the people. We're getting clear signals that,

you know, our abortion policy or our past legislation on this is. not what they want. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see if Mike Johnson takes quotes like that and even Crenshaw's to heart because, you know, as you pointed out in different words, I think he is undoubtedly the most virulently anti-reproductive freedom speaker in the modern era. And it'll be interesting to see if he is dissuaded or if others can dissuade him from pushing federal legislative efforts because of these election results. Yeah. And reading between the lines of his statements, He's been asked about this on Fox and in other venues, and he's said, look, it's no secret what I believe, but we have other priorities right now, which is a classic textbook deflection. He's opening the door for it. He doesn't want to alienate his anti-abortion constituency. He has all these other constituencies now to manage, and he's just trying to kick the can down the road. I think what is going to be the more interesting thing to watch is, look, I think it's highly unlikely, maybe I'll eat crow on this later, that House Republic and will push any kind of broad anti-abortion legislation.

But what they have really picked up with a lot of fresh energy during the Mike Johnson era, and really they were doing this under McCarthy too, were attaching these riders to federal funding bills that impose new kinds of abortion restrictions. And it gets into this sort of longstanding federal policy called the Hyde Amendment, which is understood by both parties as kind of an unofficial rule that bars federal money is from going towards any kind of abortion care or related services or things like that. And so Republicans are really aggressively pushing the Hyde Amendment in new ways. And, you know, it's actually causing some problems for them internally. One of the appropriations bills got a little

shakier this week because of a Hyde Amendment-related provision. And some of the Republicans in tough districts apparently voiced their concerns with pushing forward on these abortion policies, not even just given the results of this week, but in general. So I think this is the place to watch Mike Johnson is, does he put the pedal to the metal when it comes? to taking this Hyde Amendment route and really kind of chipping away at abortion policy through these spending bills, or does he sort of go, you know what, maybe this is going to be a more difficult area for us going forward and tries to hang back, recognizing the politics of it. As I was reading your piece, I thought that was a really interesting and astute point that

we need to look at the, you know, as sort of the old axiom, I guess, follow the money because that may be whether Republicans change their focus or push their focus. I do want to move before we go away. I want to talk about the debate a little. I didn't get to see it in full. It sounds like it was a lot of fun. I forgot we're audio only. I rolled my eyes as I said that. You described the candidate strategy very simply, be unhinged. And I think that captured it perfectly. And I suppose, unsurprisingly, Vivek Ramoswami sort of led the way here. He did. And he kind of telegraphed that he was going to do this ahead of time, but he came in there already completely hot and unhinged. But look, I mean, like it's sort of a remarkable debate when like Tim Scott casually calling for war with Iran is like

the sixth or seventh most notable thing that happened on stage. The Vakes strategy is to get as much attention as possible and get as many headlines as possible and you know, gin up outrage. And it's, I guess, earned him some fans. It certainly earned him the everlasting hatred, I'm sure, of Nikki Haley and Ronda Sannis. But, you know, he came in there throwing every possible punch he could at the RNC chairwoman and the moderators of the debate and the media and this and that, clearly very canned, I should note, completely took away the focus from the question that Vivek was actually asked, which was how he would be better as a nominee than Donald Trump, a question that Vivek Ramoswamy did not answer, and I think he did not want to answer. But that is a,

that's a story for a different time. But look, I mean, this is a stage in the primary where time is running out for any of these people to catch Donald Trump. We are two months from Iowa. there are really very few signs that any of them have what it takes to make a run at Trump barring any kind of broader developments in Trump's legal situation or whatever it may be. This is a primary that's gotten pretty stagnant. And so these folks are all angling for that number two spot. They are angling to sort of be the best minor league team here. And I think what we saw last night was just sort of a dialed up to 11 effort for all of them

to distinguish themselves to try and, appeal to the broadest section of primary voters possible. So that's how you end up, not just with Vivek, but with Tim Scott, you know, calling for war with Iran. I mean, you had Nikki Haley, like, really, you know, and she was, she was giving as good as she got. I, you know, there was, I think the sort of indelible moment of the debate was her responding to Vivek's mentioning of her daughter and her daughter's alleged use of TikTok, and Haley rolls her eyes and says, you're just scum, which I think will live down maybe is the essential moment of any of these debates. And so, look, it was as good a reflection as any where the primary is at.

And I think it should be noted in this overheated, unhinged sort of rhetorical style, Trump skated by as he usually does. There was no, you know, very few ill words for Donald Trump among these candidates. Really the harshest stuff came from Ron DeSantis, who said, you know, a line that he said before in some of these debates that, you know, Trump should be here to answer questions. He should have to explain why he deserves another term. All valid points, but that was about as harsh as it got. Absolutely. I mean, these debates could not be better for Donald Trump. I do want to go back to the Tim Scott thing because a point you kind of

alluded to is we're going to remember Nikki Halley's line. Ron DeSantis's boots were a popular topic. But Tim Scott sat there and like if he were a little younger, he basically the way he would have put it was we need to low-key bomb Iran for real. Like that was the sense of when I watched him say that, and it was like just this matter-of-fact statement, and everybody has kind of glossed over it. Yeah, and it's not the only thing like that that was totally glossed over. I mean, it is now, I guess, an established policy position

in the Republican presidential field that, like, you know, we can have like a little light invasion of Mexico as a treat. Like, yeah, you know, just, you know, we'll just get the special forces down on the border and just have them shoot anybody. who is there is now kind of uncontroversial, at least on that stage, uncontroversial way of approaching southern border policy. I miss this moment as it happened. And then I saw it on Twitter.

But Vivek, again, this was a blink and you miss it thing. Vivek was like, yeah, we should build two border walls. He means the one with Mexico and the one with Canada. And so that's the interesting thing about some of these debates. And people say, oh, these debates don't matter. They're completely useless. And look, in terms of deciding who will be the Republican presidential nominee in 2024, you know, maybe they aren't so helpful. But I do think they are a really, really useful and important

reflection of where is the center of gravity in today's Republican Party on these issues? And for all the talk of how, you know, unusual and boundary pushing and extreme and fringe Donald Trump is, you know, these are the folks who are drafting in his wake. And, you know, if any of them were to be president, you know, for Vikram Swami, for example, I mean, that would be uncharted territory as well from a policy perspective. No, I think that's absolutely right. And I, you know, I've been talking about the, again, what is now, as you put it, it's now like just an established matter-of-fact point that, oh, yeah, we should bomb Mexico. It's unreal to me. And then for Tim Scott to just casually

add Iran to it and Ramoswami wants to stop our nasty neighbors to the north from coming across the border. It's just absolutely insane. And I sort of have in the, I'm in the category of, my God, these debates are so meaningless because Trump is the obvious nominee. But you're right to point out that these things are important. It's important that we know that all these people feel that way. Sam, thank you so much for being here, as always, and given us sort of the inside scoop and inside dope on what's been going on. I really appreciate it. Yeah, anytime.

Andy Levy. Danielle Moody. Andy Levy. How are you closing out this good, good week with your Fuck That Guy? I thought that guy is someone who I feel like should be making more appearances in this segment than he has been. And for that, I blame Ron DeSantis and other people who just keep sucking up all the fuck that guy oxygen. But it's House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer. And he is the guy who is sort of leading the charge on all the Hunter Biden stuff and potentially impeaching Joe Biden, et cetera.

and one of the big things that he keeps pointing to is, and he's now subpoenaed, the brother of Joe Biden, James Biden, is these loans that I guess were repaid by James to his brother Joe. They were loans of 40 grand and 200 grand, which are pretty substantial loans. That's really nice of Joe Biden. I do not think my sister would loan me $200,000. And she would be absolutely correct not to. But anyway, Comer is making a big deal about this and that they are somehow indicative of something shady. And we should point out that both of these loan repayments were in years that Joe Biden was neither president nor vice president. He was private citizen Joe Biden.

But regardless. So the Daily Beast, Roger Salenberger broke a story on Thursday that shows that James Comer had a nice little deal where he, gave some money to his brother, also $200,000 for some land swaps regarding their family farming business. As Roger points out, as he writes, the more powerful and influential comer channeled extra money to his brother, seemingly from nothing. Other recent land swaps were quickly followed with new applications for special tax breaks. All of this perplexingly related to the dealings of a family company that appears to have never existed on paper. Oh shit. So I mean, like, I know there's absolutely no point in talking about the hypocrisy of these people because they don't care.

The only time hypocrisy matters is if the actual person cares about it and they don't because they have absolutely no shame. Just the irony needs to be pointed out of James Comer subpoenaing people and going after people for family loans while he himself has these. deals with his brother regarding a company that does not seem to exist on paper. Great job by Roger uncovering this. And I just, I thought it was worthy of bringing up here, especially since, as I said, I think we've severely undercover James Comer in this segment. So fuck that guy. And I promise to our listeners that this will not be the last time he makes me too.

No, it will not. And the rot is coming from inside. the fucking house. Every time that these people project their bullshit onto others, it's like, look under the sheets, look under the bed, look inside the closets. Like, they always have some hot shit. Also, where the fuck? Everybody got 200 grand to lend out? Like, hello? You know, we're here. Andy and I, everybody got $200,000? Like, that must be nice. The fuck? Listeners, we will set up a GoFundMe in a heartbeat. Heartbeat.

So let us know. Oh, what did I say? Cashap Arsel. Let me tell you something. Comer will absolutely make a regular appearance. So welcome to the fuck that guy, Hall of Fame. All right, Daniel, close out the week for us. Who you got?

Oh, oh, oh. So, you know, sometimes, and it seems to be more and more often, that Republicans don't have a whisper campaign about their desire for authoritarianism. It is not a secret. We're not making shit up. We're not being hyperbolic when we continue to say that these people do not want democracy. Democracy does not work for them. Why?

Because the policies that they offer are not popular. So when they lose, for them, it isn't like, hmm let me think to myself about how I can figure out what it is my constituents want no their response is let me figure out how I can get these motherfuckers off the rolls or how I can just you know put in a person like Trump or Trump light that will just do away with these pesky things called elections and so former senator Rick Santorum turned ever so consistent talking fucking head of nonsense decided to take to the airwaves to say, again, the not so quiet part out loud. And this was the comment that he made on Newsmax following the Republicans shalacking on election night. He said this, quote, you put very sexy things like abortion and marijuana on the ballot and a lot of young people come out and vote. It was a secret sauce for disaster in Ohio. Thank goodness. that most of the states in this country don't allow you to put everything on the ballot because

pure folks listen to this because pure democracies are not the way to run a country oh is that right is that so our founding fathers they were just on some fuck shit like that was just not it he is telling you what the republican party believes which is that if you give voters the opportunity to decide how they want to live their lives and give them clear understanding of what it means to have bodily autonomy, what it means to have liberty and freedom, when they are able to cast their vote,

they choose liberty and freedom, which is not what the Republican Party is offering. They want to govern by fiat. That's why they're so happy with the black cloaks up at the Supreme Court, who we did not elect making decisions about what the future of this country looks like. So Rick Santorum, thank you so very much for reminding us, just like Huckabee Sanders at the top,

that this is an election. These are elections that are coming up between normal and crazy, between democracy and authoritarianism. Republicans are done with it. It don't work for them. And if you elect them, democracy will no longer exist. So for that reason, Rick Santorum, I want to thank you and also, fuck that guy. Yeah, I guess the only place I'd quibble with you there is I think the founding father has probably agreed with him.

That's why you have two senators in Idaho and two senators in California. And that's why you have a dumbass electoral college. But that aside, I love that he referred to abortion and marijuana on the ballot as being sexy. Right. And I know what he means. He means that there are issues that bring people out. But that's just a really weird word to describe it. And it just makes me feel like I guess he's right.

You know, young people, all they want to do is get high and have abortions. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That's what it sounds like he's saying, basically. Very sexy. He's gone from CNN to Newsmax, which, regardless of what you think of CNN, ain't a step up. No. And I think this shows exactly why.

And you're absolutely right, though, but in that the way he says that pure democracy is not a way to run a country is completely of a piece. with every Republican effort to make it harder for people to vote. That is absolutely their MO is they know that the issues they run on are not popular. And that the only way they win elections, national elections, is voter suppression. And that's always been their jam. And you're right. They're just, you know, we've been saying for a while now that the quiet parts are going away. And I think this is absolutely part of that.

So yeah, fuck that guy forever. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the New Abnorm. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber.

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