The Daily Beast Podcast - Bill Ackman and Laura Loomer, for the Love of God, Please Shut Up

Episode Date: July 23, 2024

The New Abnormal co-hosts Danielle Moodie and Andy Levy sit down to reflect on all things Kamala Harris, voicing tentative optimism for how smoothly everything seems to be going… so far. Then, Tim Miller, a former Republican operative and host of The Bulwark Podcast, joins the pod to discuss Harris’ potential running mates and how Team Trump might be planning to react. Plus! A conversation with author Sarah Kendzior about Joe Biden’s legacy and what brave new world in which the Democrats have suddenly found themselves. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedin. And I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears.

We have such a great show for you today. Tim Miller, who hosts the Bullwork Daily podcast, joins us to talk about possible running mates for Kamala Harris and how they expect Team Trump to react. Then author Sarah Kenziore is here to talk about Joe Biden's legacy now that he's dropped out of the race and what the road forward looks like for the Democratic Party. But first, let's have some fun. So, Danielle, on our bonus pod on Sunday, again, not an emergency pod, no such thing. We were talking about the need for there to be consensus around Vice President Kamala Harris as the presumptive nominee. And here we are a day or so later, and we got it. Yes, there are some people who haven't spoken up yet, but the vast majority of powerful Democrats, of office holders, et cetera,

rallied behind the vice president, and that includes pretty much everyone whose name had come up as a potential alternative candidate. Josh Shapiro, J.B. Pritzker, Mark Kelly, Roy Cooper, Gretchen Whitmer, Andy Bashir, Gavin Newsom. Every single one of them has come out and said that Harris has their full support. And I am pleasantly surprised, Danielle, at least so far, how smoothly this is going. I mean, here's what I'll say as we're still in our halo honeymoon, as Jesse Colton. And I want to enjoy these five minutes for as long as we can. I have never been happier to be proven wrong by establishment Democrats. Everyone that listens to this and has been listening for, you know, for the past month have heard me say that I did not want Biden to step aside because I felt that Democrats did not have their shit together and that this was going to turn into just.

full-blown cannibalism of the party from the inside out and Republicans are just going to need to sit there at the bonfire and toast marshmallows. The opposite has come to pass in such an incredible way that I really want to give it to Democrats when I oftentimes am coming at them, that the swiftness with which, especially those that you just named, whose names were floating around as possible nominees, the swiftness at which their statements came in, but also the strength of their statements in talking about, you know, the vice president being tenacious and a fighter and someone that will prosecute the case, that will bring it to Donald Trump, that can articulate the vision of why we need to continue with this imperfect project of democracy.

It's astounding. I feel this weird feeling, Andy. I couldn't put a finger on it. It's not dope. It's hope. I actually feel for the first time and God knows how long, a sense of hope that all is not fully lost because watching the Republican National Convention, that fucking clown shit show that we subjected ourselves to because we love our listeners, when I heard people telling me that they thought it was compelling and engaging, I was like, oh my God. I mean, my passport is good.

and let me just start scouting where I'm going to live because this place is going under. And that foreboding for the moment is at bay. And, you know, I got to say I feel lighter. Yeah. I mean, look, this was a really, really nice surprise that it's been nearly unanimous. And even to the point where Joe Manchin, it was originally reported in the wake of Biden removing himself from the race. It was reported that Manchin was considering a run. he was going to re-enroll as a Democrat and run.

To his Maserati? Yeah, from his offshore yacht, like in true supervillain style. But even he, maybe the reports were wrong to begin with, but it's also possible he looked around and saw that there was absolutely no point in doing this. And he has now said he would not be throwing his hat into the ring. Look, you're always going to have the Marianne Williamson's of the world and people like that who, you know, she now. wants a spot at the convention, I think. You're always going to have the fringers like that, but there is nobody serious who wants to take on Kamala Harris, and I think that's a really good thing. Yeah, I want to lift up something to another piece of, like, extraordinary news, which is that

on the day that Joe Biden announced that he was stepping aside and full-throatedly endorsed Kamala Harris, within hours, 44,000 black women, 44,000 black women joined a Zoom call organized by, we win with black women, Jotaka, Edy, and others gathered forces. And within three, I couldn't get on the call. Like, let me just say that I tried. And it was like at capacity, at capacity. And I was kicked off. And I was just, I could never have been happier. to be kicked off of someplace because it meant that so many black women and some allies were really showing up. And in that time, raised like over a million and a half dollars. And we're talking about organizing. And so when I had said weeks ago that if these largely white male donors thought that they were going to skip over, hopscotch over the vice president to nominate some random white men,

that they thought could fit the bill, they were going to be in for a rude awakening. And when 44,000 black women from across the country get on a Zoom call, they had, they called the president of Zoom and said, we need greater capacity. Right? Like what we have ain't enough. I mean, that just shows you like, one, again, who the base of this party is, how quickly black women organized because they stay ready. And so I, I just want to lift that up and shout out all of the black women that were organizing and that are that this is just the beginning. Because I said, if they could do this in three hours, what the hell do we think is going to be done in three and a half months is going to be like nothing that we've ever seen before. Yeah, for sure. I saw that that was happening, I guess it was Sunday night. It was just absolutely

stunning. And I was sitting there going, how like I did not know Zoom could do that. It was just so unbelievable. But also, Danielle, it made me think, when's the white man's call? You know, when do we finally get to speak, Danielle? It's White Boy's supper after all. My God, y'all never shut the fuck up. So I just assume you stay on a Zoom call. No, look, in all seriousness, speaking of the white man's call, Fox News has been absolutely losing its mind,

along with the rest of Maga World about this. You know, we're already hearing that she is an illegitimate candidate. Yep. We are hearing, they're trying to say that the Democrats are taking the vote away from people, which is about as ironic as it gets. So rich. Stephen Miller saying they're publicly admitting that they are an oligarchy. This is a guy who tried to overturn the election in 2020.

They have just completely lost their. minds. Trump himself has, and I hope you're sitting down, Danielle, because this is going to shock you. He is not being gracious about this. Weird. Because he loves black women. So, you know, like, he loves women in general. He's always so generous with his thoughts. Well, and just in general, he's a gracious person. And so it's very weird to see him saying on his dumbass truth social, he wrote, so we are forced to spend time and money on fighting crooked Joe Biden. He pulls badly after having a terrible debate and quits the race. Now we have to start all over again. Shouldn't the Republican Party be reimbursed for fraud? And he goes on and on. It's kind of nice to see because

they are really scrambling and they are very much in the throw shit at the wall phase. And I saw people bringing up that idiot John Eastman, a thing he wrote in, I think it was 2020, saying that Kamala Harris is not eligible to be president. They're running that up the flagpole as if that's any kind of serious argument. I think they are going to way overplay their hand on this. And other people have said this. I'm not the first to say it without downplaying the amount of racism and sexism that exists in this country. I think there are a lot of people, and I'm not talking about people on the left, I'm talking of people in the middle, who are going to look at this and say, man, you all are trying to railroad a black woman. And you're going too far and we don't like it. And maybe I'm insane.

for thinking that. And Daniel, you might have slightly more experience as a black woman on this than I do. Slightly more, but keep going. I'll give you an edge. A slight edge. I guess what I'm trying to say is, and again, I never get to downplay the bad elements that exist in this country and in every country. But I do feel like there are people, maybe even some of the people who are generally undecided or didn't love Trump, but really thought Joe Biden was too old. So they figured, well, I got to vote for Trump. I got to think that at least some of those people are going to be turned off by what we are about to see over the next bunch of months coming out of Maga World.

Yeah, because I mean, look, none of this is anything that we haven't seen before. You know, I know that for folks who, you know, they continue to say on social media, like, brace yourself for the misogyn noir, brace yourself for, you know, the racism and sexism, black women brace themselves every day when they leave their houses. It is a mounting array of microaggressions and heavy aggressions that we face. That being said, I think that what is going to become very apparent very quickly is that they don't have anything outside of that to attack her on. So what is the racial slur that they're going to try and use? You know, what is going to be their, their likelihoodness of a Sleepy Joe narrative that they're going to try and place on Kamala Harris.

Like there are clips right now that are circulating that just remind the American people that she made Brett Kavanaugh scream and cry. Yeah. You know, that moment when she was a senator and he was being questioned during his confirmation period, she tore him down to the studs. And so I think that outside of the narrative that, they created around Joe Biden being old, being slow, being this, being that. They made the entire campaign about agility and an age and dexterity and all of these things.

Look at Donald Trump is so quick. He sewed this, that, and the other thing, well, now on stage next to a 59-year-old black woman, woman of color, you look old as shit and out of shape and out of your depth. And so I feel like if they don't, to your point, when we're looking at whoever these imaginary swing voters still are, when we're looking at folks in these consequential states, I think that if you're not offering up anything of substance and it's the, you know, what he did to Elizabeth Warren with the Pocahontas narrative or what he's done with Nikki Haley or Ted Cruz or any of the people that have dared to go toe to toe with him, it's going to fall on. non-listening ears and it's going to just ring incredibly hollow. It's going to ring incredibly hollow because what she's going to be able to do is now reorient our attention back to Project 2025 where it hasn't been over the last month. Yeah, absolutely. And regardless of how you felt about Joe Biden and about whether he should or should not drop out of the race, the fact of the

matter is all the oxygen was being sucked up by that discussion. And as you point out, that's now gone. And yeah, we're going to have a little while of the right bleeding that, you know, she's not a legitimate candidate. And there's going to be stories about her putting a coalition together. But eventually, and particularly, you know, after the convention in the final months of this campaign, she is, as you said, she is going to be able to make this about issues. She's going to be able to make it about abortion. She's going to be able to make it about Project 2025. She's going to be able to, I think, draw a very good distinction between just the abject meanness of Donald Trump and the Republican Party and sort of a more fundamentally decent way of looking at America and what America

should be. I really do think that that's going to be important. And we know Donald Trump has, you know, he has a floor that is never going to go away and they love the means. meanness and they love the fact that he's an asshole. It's a net positive for him among those people. And that's a hardcore floor. You know, I don't know what the percentage is. It might be 30, 35 percent of the American people. But I also think there are a lot of people, you know, sort of dovetailing on my earlier point, who don't see his meanness and his very apparent lack of empathy for literally any other human being as a positive. And who, again, they may not have been. all in on Joe Biden or even partially in on Joe Biden.

But they don't love that aspect of Trump, which we, again, it's not like that aspect's going away ever. So, yeah, I do think that, yeah, the next, you know, the next couple weeks, even the next month going into the convention might be a lot of talk about process and about, you know, sort of nuts and bolts politics. But I really do think that coming out of the convention, that she will be able to just fully draw the distinction between her and Donald Trump. And honestly, I have to say, you know, Joe Biden, he definitely drew that distinction. But, you know, even watching speeches where I thought he was good, it was like he's saying all the right things, but he's a little hard to understand and he's not

really nailing the cadence. And whatever it is, that's all theatrics and everything. But the fact of the matter is, theatrics matter in politics. And I think she will be able to, much more cogently, even if she's saying the exact same things as Joe Biden, they will hit harder, I think. Look, she has already come out and, you know, and said one, that she is willing to fight for this nomination, which, again, folks are falling in line in a way that we don't see normally from Democrats. So it is likely, obviously, that she is going to be the nominee, but she has already said, I've prosecuted sex offenders. Donald Trump is one. I've prosecuted grifters of fraudulent universities. He had one. And just like ticking off the list of the work that she

did while Attorney General and then go again to look at what she did during the confirmation hearing of this now weaponized and radicalized Supreme Court, you can see very clearly that Kamala Harris draws a clear distinction between the values that she has as a prosecutor. as a vice president, and to a grifter and a mobster. One of the best things that needs to be on t-shirts that kept being said was the prosecutor versus the felon. It's those kinds of soundbites, like you're saying, those clear, very factual and gritty taglines that the Biden campaign was missing. Yep. Missing the snappiness and the punchiness that Republicans have been known for.

Locker up, lock her up. You just say, this one thing repetitively over and over again. And I think that what we have seen over these last, you know, several hours are Democrats coming out and saying the same thing. Prosecutor versus a felon. She's going to prosecute the case against Donald Trump. He is a felon convicted of, you know, 34 counts. Like I think that it's going to resonate because of the clarity and the passion that she can deliver these one-liners, which unfortunately, like, let's just be clear, America's a bumper-sticker nation. Yeah, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you can slap it on a bumper sticker, you know, more than likely

people are able to get behind it for better or for worse. And so I think that if the next three and a half months or what is it, by the time this will be like 104 days until election day, if we can hammer that point in and these surrogates go out and do what, it is that they need to do when she hits the ground with the stamina again that we saw missing from Joe Biden hitting these states, I think that we are within the range that I honestly, Sunday morning, did not think that we were going to be in the field of range for. You know, the one thing that she has that Biden didn't, and that Trump doesn't either, is that Kamala is brat.

Oh, God. When I originally asked my next guest to come on, it was to talk about the Republican Convention, which honestly now feels like it was held a year ago. We'll see if we get to that. But before we get to it, if we get to it, I don't want to commit podcaster malpractice by not asking him about the decision by President Biden to drop out of the race. Joining me now is the Bullwarks Tim Miller, host of the Bullwark podcast, and therefore my rival. Yeah, you better believe I'm your rival and I'm dominating you also. Wow. Wow.

That's all right. A little trash talk. to start the podcast. Unbelievable. Just, yeah. Okay. Tim, first of all, thank God, it's Friday,

am I right? Is it? What day is it? I'm not even sure. I swear to God, Andy, I woke up before my alarm went off this morning. And I was like,

things were happening in my house, my child is moving around, my husband is, and I'm like, why, what's that? Isn't it Sunday? I thought it was still the week. I thought,

Saturday. I thought yesterday was Friday. I was working all day yesterday. I'm very disoriented. But I know that people are very sympathetic to us live in the hard podcaster life. But for take slingers, it has been a very busy season. It's like tax season for take slingers right now.

Yeah, seriously. So I want to go back a little bit. I want to go back to Saturday night because you published, I think what could be reasonably called, a very mean piece about Joe Biden over at the bulwark with the headline, enough with the Biden's psychodrama. And I guess my question is, have you no sense of decency? It was mean.

And I was a little nervous about publishing it because he could just do the right thing. minute later and make me seem very mean. And that's basically what happened. It wasn't a minute later. It was about 12 hours that he did the right thing. But no, I don't think so. Maybe I don't have a decency. I felt like I was being extremely honest. And it was reflecting my feelings, a lot of feelings of people that I talked to in democratic politics, just in my life in the country. That was, why were we spending so much time worrying about the Biden legacy and whether he can live, live with dignity and his feelings and Hunter. It all was, it was all a ridiculous psychodrama, mellow drama that went on for far too

long. And I wrote an article the night of the debate that said that Joe Biden, Joe Biden needed to have a chat tonight about their future. And that chat should probably lead to him dropping out of the race. He demonstrated that he was not up for the task. It was a very, very important task. It doesn't take away his accomplishments. doesn't take away the fact that he's a decent person that famously calls people, you know,

who go through tragedy in their life. I have respect for all that. But his family and his little inner circle, the three weeks of, you know, where pretending like we all had to care about the Biden family feelings was a little much to take. It was a little much to take when, you know, you have creeping authoritarianism as the other option. One man's opinion. I read your piece, Tim. And I absolutely got where you were coming from.

And it's not even that I really disagreed with it that much. I just, the thing you said about, you know, the fact that Biden seems to be a, that a lot of people think of him, at least as a decent man, I think is exactly the reason that people were actually maybe trying, and maybe to an extent they shouldn't have been, but feeling a little bit of sort of empathy for him, too. It's tough. I certainly would have felt empathy for him had he dropped out the day after the debate. It's tough to have to embarrass yourself on national television to deal with the fact that, you know, your death is around the door. We all have to deal with this, our aging. I don't like aging. You know, nobody really likes. Maybe some people like aging. I don't know. I don't like it.

So I feel empathy for him, for sure. But you have a responsibility as a public servant, and especially as the president of the United States, and especially as a person that's at the tip of the spear trying to protect our democracy from the Donald Trump threat. And that responsibility is far greater than concerns about your feelings and your insecurities about your aging and your decline. And it sucks. It's harsh to say, but that's the job, right? Like, it's different than saying, hey, do you feel sympathy for your great uncle who, like, no longer can go, you know, golf or go fishing or do what he wants because he's gotten older and

now he's sitting around and maybe you've got to go over to his house and you want to hang and play cards with him? Like, yeah, for sure. I feel sympathy for people that go through personal struggles. But the President of the United States needs to worry about us, not himself, right? And I think that was the thing that was frustrating. But he eventually did it. He did the right thing. I give him credit. It could have happened sooner. But we move, we move on. Yeah. And look, you got what you wanted. You made a sweet old man cry. So as you say, we go forward now. So how do you foresee the Trump campaign handling running against Harris? I personally believe that they will handle it very classily, but I know not everyone agrees with that. Yeah, and I don't think so. We have already this morning,

it's a big Trump superfan Laura Lumer, unapologetic Islamophobic and white nationalists. Got a shout out from the stage at a Trump event recently. She was posting about how Kamala Harris isn't really black. Yeah. I've had several Trump people attacking her from being childless, even though she has stepchildren. We've already seen the DEI candidate. And, you know, Trump's is, is rage bleeding over on his social media feed already, mostly about Joe Biden, but eventually that'll turn to Kamala. And I'm sure we'll see Berthaism and all kinds of other, you know, racist air horns coming from these guys. And I think that it's a problem for them. They cannot control their worst impulses on this. I know that there's certainly racist people in the country, but there's

also a big swath of the country that wants to think of America as a place of opportunity and a place of hope and a place where anybody can achieve their dreams and they don't want to think of it as a country that is going to vote against somebody, you know, because of their skin color. And so I think it could be a huge potential backfire. And I've seen no evidence that on anything besides immigration, they have a coherent message targeting the vice president at all. They seem to be fly. Yeah, I saw that Laura Lumer thing about Kamala Harris not really being black, and I was actually wondering if that was her endorsing Harris. No.

It's hard to get in the head of what's happening over in the people for whom, you know, they look at Newsmax and they're like, eh, you're playing this little straight. Right. You know, for that crowd in the MAGA world, it's sometimes hard to divine their intentions. Yeah, for sure. Who do you think she should pick for VP? I know you are personally a big fan of Pennsylvania governor, Josh Shapiro. Man, you've just been monitoring my feeds.

You've been listening to a competition's podcast. I listened to you and Bill Crystal yesterday. Yeah, you have a little dossier on me over here. You've seen all of my comments, read all my articles. I am a big fan of Josh Shapiro. The board podcast is almost like a Josh Shapiro porn site. It's bordering on NC17 over there. I think he's done a great job as the governor.

He's a good communicator. It's a critical state. If you want to wet your panties tonight, how about this? Think about this path to victory for Donald Trump. All he used to do is win the states he won last time, plus Georgia and Pennsylvania, and the game's over. All the other states we're talking about don't matter. So Pennsylvania is an absolutely critical state. I think he'd be a good pick.

I worry a little bit. He was outspoken in his advocacy against the anti-Semitic protests on campus. He's Jewish himself. I worry a little bit about kind of rehabilitating that argument within the Democratic coalition in a way that could get ugly. coming from some on the Hamas friendly left. So I worry about that in picking him a little bit and how, and I think that there's something to be said for the fact that the vice president does not carry the baggage of this conflict that Joe Biden was carrying,

where he, everyone who was upset with him on both sides. Yeah. It felt like the bulwark was the only people complimenting after, after how mean I was to Joe Biden about not resigning. We were also, were literally the nicest people to Joe Biden about handling the Israel-Hamas conflict. I thought he did it pretty well. Not too many people out there sharing that view.

So, you know, does bringing. Shapiro under the ticket complicate that. I don't know. Obviously, I like Mayor Pete. I'm a little worried about the, you know, a black woman and a gay. We're going a little overboard there with getting out of people's comfort zones. But you think a black woman and a Jew is no problem?

No, I worry about that. I worry about it. Yeah. I think that the Pete thing is maybe a different animal. I don't know. It's funny. So when I taped the podcast yesterday, you listened to with Bill Crystal. A producer is Jewish. And on the podcast, I expressed the same view. I was like, I don't know. Are people ready for the gays? And can you pick

Pete and then the producer said to me afterwards she's like well you're the one pushing a Jewish person are we sure that people are ready for a Jew you know so everybody's a little more sensitive towards you know the microaggressions that you experience in your own life you know so I maybe I'm wrong about this here's why I like Shapiro and Buttigieg they're both very talented communicators and the democrats could really use a talented communicator on the ticket they can go head to head with fans it can take on Trump. And in this day and age, I think TV ads have lost almost all of their efficacy. You have to be able to have these little clips that go viral on TikTok on YouTube. Those two guys can do it. Everybody else on the list, you know, I think it's varying degrees of just okay on that front.

So that's why I think they're the strongest, but I understand, you know, not wanting to, you know, bring additional identity issues into an already complicated ticket. Yeah, yesterday on our bonus podcast, because Tim, I refuse to call them emergency podcasts. Bonus. Yeah, you're right. We should have done that, too. Yeah, I mentioned J.B. Pritzker as a good candidate, and I did not realize at the time I did not learn this until last night that he is Jewish.

Yeah. He also brings us in the Chicago baggage. And so Pritzker and Newsom, I should say, going by my own standard that I want to have somebody who's a good communicator, Newsom and Pritzker would be the other two people that come to mind. My issue with that is like, I mean, do we really want the Democratic ticket to have to also carry with it, the baggage of Chicago and San Francisco. Objectively speaking, it provides a ton of fodder to the Republicans that you would not provide them if you had Andy Beshear, Governor Kentucky, if you had Mark Kelly, Senator from Arizona,

former astronaut, Roy Cooper people have thrown out there, Governor North Carolina. You know, I think they're safer picks for that reason. But that's what you're balancing. I mean, if there was a perfect Goldilocks choice, we wouldn't have this great content. No, for sure. Let's talk a little bit about Mark Kelly, though, because in a lot of ways, he really does seem to check all the boxes, including being a straight white guy. Yeah, he is a straight white Christian.

So that's nice and an astronaut. He's been to space. And, you know, we have Gabby Giffords and, you know, the tragedy or near tragedy that befell her being a victim of gun violence. So there's a lot of narrative lines to work with there. He also campaigned against Blake Masters already. So he knows what it's like to campaign against a nationalist psychopath who went to an Ivy League school and pretends like they're a man of the people. So that's pretty relevant on the job experience. that he'd have going up against J.D. Vance. He's not that compelling of a speaker.

Dynamic. Yeah. He's not very dynamic. I think it might be the shortest presidential ticket in history. So if you have anti-short bias, that's something to think about. You also might, you might lose the flat earth vote. Yeah, you might lose a flat earth vote. And then you have the Senate seat. My guess is that you'll have Chuck of Chuck and Nancy fame in the vice president's ear pushing against this because Katie Homs could pick his successor. So it would not. you know, cost of Democrats a seat immediately. But then the seat that isn't supposed to be up again until 2028 would then go up in 26.

Right. You know, and in a swing state, in a hypothetical place where in, and fingers crossed, Kamala Harris is the president, you know, usually that first midterm is bad. Anyway, you know, this is now we're getting like deep into the machinations and strategy of politics. I do think that's probably, I think there'll probably be some people in Senate world that, that argue against him for that reason. Yeah, and I've seen arguments against some of the governors for similar reasons, even if they were to be replaced by, like I know in Pennsylvania, the lieutenant governor becomes governor and they are a Democrat.

But there's some talk of, I don't know if we want to lose Josh Shapiro in Pennsylvania, et cetera, down the line, you can come up with reasons for all of them. How do you see this process playing out as we go forward? Are you one of those nutters that wants a chaotic convention? I guess. I mean, I think it's done. It's going to raise $100 million in two or three days here, maybe in one day. So I think practically it's done. In my fantasy world, I wish that somebody from the squad would have kind of ran against her.

And so we could kind of put up a tomato can to run against her so she could kind of run through the paces a little bit and position herself more to the center. I think that might have helped. I do think that it probably would have helped the vice president to have a contest. but I think that part of the delay in Biden's choice, I think really sapped a lot of energy for that. I think that maybe had he dropped out immediately, maybe they would have contest, which I think probably would have ended up with the vice president anyway,

almost certainly. That's what I keep saying every time. I think it almost certainly would have ended up with her. But I think there would have been some excitement, something to be said for it. And there's a lot of pressure on her right now, and that would have maybe eased some of that pressure. But I hope that she's up for it.

I don't think it really matters what I want at this point. I think it's pretty clear that it's going to be Kamala, barring, you know, we've had a lot of unforeseen circumstances in the last three weeks. So who knows? Yes. You know, maybe we're going to roll snake guys again. But I think we're heading down the coconut train here pretty swiftly. You know, you talked about the three weeks that it took Biden to drop out.

And I'm certainly not suggesting that this was the bulk of that time. But it does seem like they spent at least the last few days really getting a hold of everyone and getting them on board with this. because this is some of the most non-herding of cat situations I've ever seen with the Democratic Party, it feels like. Andy, Andy, Andy. You think that this is a plan? You think that this is a plan? No, man, people are just sick of the shit. People are sick of it.

They were sick of the three weeks of infighting. They were sick of having to nudge Biden out. And Kamala's sitting right there. She's done very well the last three weeks. I think she's navigated this very well. She offers a very clean contrast with the former president. And, you know, there are the identity issues that are wrapped up in the. this and nobody wants a fight. That's all that's all this is. This is what I kept saying from the start.

I was so, yeah, I was so fucking annoyed. And I'm sure maybe it's some of your listeners. And AOC and some of my listeners, they're like, if Biden steps aside, it's going to be chaos. Who knows what will happen? The Republicans might even sue us. Oh my God, the Republicans might sue us. Who knows what's going to happen then? And I was just like, what are you guys talking about? The Democrats don't have a nominee yet. Okay. There's no legal issues. They don't have an official nominee to Chicago. I think that it will overwhelmingly likely be the vice president. She'll be able to raise a ton of money. If there's a contest, I think it would be something that people are excited about. You get to hear from new fresh voices. And to me, all of that seemed much better than the chaos of like not knowing

where a sentence ends once it begins every time your candidate starts. So I, to me, it was a no-brainer. I was totally baffled by the argument that there was going to be craziness coming or that it would be worse. And who the hell knows? Knocking on wood, maybe the chaos is yet to come. Maybe it was something that I couldn't foresee. But to me, this seems like I don't think there was any plan in place. I think this is the natural order of things coming into line. Okay, but I will say that, look, my fear was not that there would automatically be chaos. And my feeling was that if everyone, you know, sort of rallied around Harris, then great, go with God. But my fear was that you were going to get a bunch of Democrats. And so, you know,

sort of taking the Nancy Pelosi tack of, oh, no, we need to make this open to the voters, which is in the first place a lie, because you're talking about making it open to the delegates to the convention, not to the voters. The chaos I was afraid of was if they didn't do what thankfully, at least in my mind, they've done in the last few days, which has come out with a bunch of people quickly saying, I fully support the vice president in this. And I really do think that they must have spent some time working the phones in the days leading up. They didn't work a single fucking phone. Joe Biden isn't calling anybody. I talked to all these people. Joe Biden hasn't been calling anybody for a while. Kamala Harris worked the phones yesterday. Kamala Harris called 100 people

yesterday. And that's one of the nice things about changing from a candidate that's 81 to a candidate that's 59 is that she called 100 people. And she's going to be, and I got some really exciting news for listeners that are supporting the Democratic ticket. Kamala gets to do campaign stuff. We get to do politics again. She gets to go on to. She gets to go. She gets. It's going to do interviews where she drives a message instead of just randomly rambles into the air. She gets to have multiple campaign events in a day, not just one. She gets to call and arm twist people. You know, she gets to spin behind the scenes and go to fundraisers and not be on a teleprompter.

Like, she gets to do all the stuff that everyone's supposed to do in a campaign, but for some reason we had two candidates that weren't doing it, that one was just golfing all day and bleeding and going to court. And like the other one was not up for it anymore. And so she's going to be able to do that. I think that's a huge advantage. And I think she's worked to the phones and worked it to such a degree that everybody rallied around her. But I think it's inevitable, man. People are thirsty for this.

People are thirsty to not have this rematch. And I think that there's a natural excitement that has emanated from that thirst. That's a mixed metaphor. But you know where I'm going with it. Yes. I know what you're talking about. All right. Well, look, I appreciate you coming on here and being wrong.

Anytime. And it takes a big man to do that. I love being wrong. I love being wrong. I don't love it when people are like, you're your secret Republican. This is all a plot. I don't love that.

But, you know, whatever. Sometimes I'm wrong, Andy. I've been wrong a lot. I was a Republican up until, what, six years ago? So, you know, I have a whole long list of wrongs. We can go through them all another time. We can have a whole podcast dedicated to all my wrongs. This time I was right.

I feel like that in my libertarian past would have to come up. And, yeah, I don't feel like it. I'm going to pull some year old tweets from 2011, all right? That's what I'm going to be reading the next time I'm on the podcast. Buddy, they are long gone. Tim, thanks so much for being here. It's always fun talking to you. Later, Andy.

Folks, I am so happy to welcome back to the new abnormal. Sarah Kensior, who is an author, a anthropologist, a researcher, a scholar, a brilliant mind that has written New York Times bestsellers like hiding in plain sight, that has written things like they knew. expert on dictatorship and, you know, light topics like that. Sarah, we are living in, my God, I don't even know what timeline we are on. Prior to booking this interview, I said, we're going to dig right into fascism and dictatorships, and we will. But I have to get your reactions to the breaking news of our time that President Joe Biden has stepped aside and dropped out of his run for a second term and has fully endorsed his

vice president, Kamala Harris. This over the last 24 hours, Democrats have raised an astronomical amount of money after money had dried up. I think it is over $50 million. There are different reports that are coming in from small dollar donors. Endorsements have been rolling in, most notably coming from the Clintons. I think it's 13 governors at this point, at least over 150 members of the House of Representatives, the Democrats, and attorneys generals across the country. What do you make of this historical moment? And we continually use that term historical, because every day feels like something new. Yeah, I keep longing for something to be precedent in my life instead of everything.

An endless unprecedented event. I'm relieved that Biden is no longer the candidate for president for a multitude of reasons. I felt this way before the debate because of his policies, particularly on Gaza, on the way that he handled COVID, which was letting his spread on the fact that there has been no meaningful punishment for sedition for Trump and not just Trump, but his backers. And, you know, I'm sure we'll get into that later. So I was very displeased that he was running and I was also very worried that he would not win against Trump. But it might actually be possible for Trump to legitimately win this election.

And I think the odds of Kamala Harris winning are much higher. I think the American people have wanted Biden to go for a while because of his health, because of his age, because he didn't fulfill his campaign promises. And the main thing that was kind of keeping him active was that the American public. moaths Trump and hates Trump and does not want to relive those four years so badly that they were willing to settle, I think, for Biden, but not with enthusiasm. And you saw this with, you know, the lack of volunteers, canvassers, small dollar donations. You know, all of that was way down from 2020. And so there's just been this boost of energy.

I think people are afraid. People are fairly just kind of shaken and traumatized. from the events of Memphis this week, but the last decade. But I think they're back to paying attention. I think folks who had tuned out are tuning back in. And this is a good opportunity for Kamala Harris, assuming that she is the candidate, you know, which I think she's going to be, to rectify some of those errors the Biden administration had made previously and just set

a new course. I feel some relief that this has happened. You know, I get a sense, too, and I have to say, like I am, as people know, I say I hold like about a mustard seat of hope in my pocket because the last 10 years have really tested my faith in democracy and tested my faith in this country. However, I honestly will say I was terrified of Joe Biden stepping aside because I was terrified at Democrats falling into deeper disarray than they had been showing over the last month following the debate. And I thought to myself, this is how dictatorships and authoritarian regimes happen.

where the people who actually believe in democracy, believe in the values that our Constitution purports, start fighting amongst themselves and kind of make space and make way for the type of regime that Project 2025 and Donald Trump have been revving up and preparing for since he left the White House. I wonder now, as we know that we are still staring

this very real threat to our way of life in the face. Do you think that the enthusiasm that we are starting to see around the vice president will also translate into the awareness that people have of how dangerous and existential this election is? I hope so. And I think, you know, Keras herself has the opportunity to convey that. And I think that she should do that full throttle. You know, one of the things that was very frustrating to watch with Biden is that he would talk about how, you know, our democracy was in grave danger and the Republican Party was an authoritarian party that poses an existential threat to the survival of the United States, both of which were true. And then he would say it was very

important to, you know, reach across the aisle and to have a stronger Republican Party and to compromise with them and all of these, you know, horrible things. And one thing to know about Project 2025 is that it is not limited to this year in past or present. It has been building for my entire lifetime. You know, I'm a child of the early 80s, and it will continue regardless of who wins this election. It's not like the Republicans are just going to throw their hands in the air. Harris wins and abandon all of these objectives. The court packing, you know, the hard right turn, the censorship, all of it are things that various Republican groups backed by billionaires have been working on for well over four decades, and they'll continue to. And I think it's important

to spell that out, that this is not just, you know, a little election big. This isn't just a little platform thing that the Democrats are bringing out to try to scare people and voting for them. This is an actual threat, and it's been an ongoing threat. And we've seen the evidence of this threat for our whole lifetime. It did not begin with Trump, and it won't end with Trump either. And I think if she's able to do that, I think that will resonate with a lot of people because we've lived it. You know, whether or not folks understand the genesis of it, you know, of what trickle down economics, for example, did over the long term. We've lived with the lack of opportunity, the lack of hope, the lack of the sense of the future. And if she's able to explain to folks, you know, who caused that and what obstacles remain, I think that will be helpful.

There are also a lot of unanswered questions. Like, for example, and there was an attempted violent coup and an attack on the Capitol, why were the perpetrators not held accountable, the top ones, not like the low-level guys? Why are people not just Trump, but, you know, Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort and Roger Stone and the rest of them, running around, plotting coup to? Why are these congresspeople who participated in this allowed to remain in office and pass laws on the Republican side? Those are questions that Biden did not answer in a satisfactory way. I think this is an opportunity for Kamlax.

I think what people hunger for is the truth. You know, the truth is the road to accountability, no matter how painful that truth is. And if she's willing to be the person who delivers that, and that's not an easy thing, but I think it would be something that would be beneficial for the country and necessary for the country in a way that transcends partisan politics. You know, this is about the future of America more than it is about any one candidate. And we've been denied that kind of truth and inquiry over the last four years. And I think frustration of that over that has led to cynicism and to people checking out.

And that makes it all the more dangerous when you consider how countries fall into authoritarianism. I feel the same way, but I have placed that frustration and for me, not for you, the rage that I have at the feet of Merrick Garland. Yes. And his lackluster, spineless, sloth-like Department of Justice that had they just picked up the Mueller report in 2021 when Joe Biden was sworn in, we would have been two years ahead. Yes. As opposed to so many, so many years and months behind that we would have not been pushing up against the presidential election.

and we would have preempted Donald Trump from even being able to announce that he was going to be running again. Do you think that it was both Joe Biden saying, I'm going to be this unifying president to bring the country back together? So let us not politicize what we know was criminal activity because it was laid out for us

that he kind of tipped the scales and Merrick Garland took his orders in that way, even though we know that there's supposed to be separation? Or do you think that this is just part of who Garland and the way that he has seen institutionalism has led us down this really dark path? I think the primary cause is Garland, but of course, Biden appointed Garland. So there's that. And Biden should have fired Garland long ago. And like you said, we could have avoided a lot of this. I wrote an exquisite about Merrick Garland.

It's called Servants of the Mafia. state. It's on my substack. It's free. But, you know, a few key points about him is that Merrick Carlin's lifelong mentor is a Democratic consultant and operative name Jamie Greeley, who served first in the Clinton administration. But then basically it was like the forest of crime. Like, if you name a traumatic, horrible event of the last 25 year, she was involved in some capacity, whether it was 9-11 or the opioid crisis or the murders of black men by police. You know, she always, she's like a modern-day Roy Cohn, where she's this lawyer fixer who goes around and protects, you know, the absolute worst people on earth. And one of those people that she protected is Jared Pichner.

She is the person who got Jared Prishner and Ivanka Trump into the White House, basically superseding a lot of legal directives. It should have kept them out. So the fact that her lifelong, best friend and protege is leading the DOJ with a giant warning sign right off the bat that people from the Trump cohort were not going to be prosecuted. That Pitcher wasn't going to be, Trump wasn't going to be, and the rest. And this was clear to me

by, you know, April 2021. That's when I started sounding the alarm over this. And I got a lot of death threats and a lot of really disturbing behavior aimed my way, even though everything I said came to pass. And a lot of it came from Democrats who just, you know, they just didn't want to believe it.

They didn't want to think that, you know, Trump was going to get away with all of these crimes that he confessed to and that he committed in plain sight. But I think Merrick Garland was installed to protect him. And I think the reasons for that, much like Project 2025, they extend beyond the Trump tenure, the Biden tenure, they extend into this really nefarious underworld where transnational organized crime meets government, meets plutocracy. And Merrick Garland is the guardian of that. He's an institutionalist for a deeply corrupt, broken and nefarious institution that has hurt the American public in many ways. And I think if

Joe Biden had been a responsible leader, he would have fired Garland as soon as Garland, you know, for example, refused to pick up the Mueller report like you mentioned. That was a very early indicator and it would have given him clear cause. And instead he's kept him there, never explained why, kept Christopher Ray, kept Lewis to Joy. We don't know why these Trump holdovers and these Trump enablers are still there, but I don't think the reasons are good. I'm very curious to see if Kamala Harris deviates in this way from Biden and maybe sets up a new path where we actually see some accountability for these crimes. I wonder what this shift will look like. While everyone is like this election now is between a prosecutor and a felon, America can make a very clear distinction

between somebody who has prosecuted crimes against sex offenders and grifters and somebody who has perpetuated those crimes. Do you think that Democrats still hold this kind of fairy tale idea that the Republican Party will restore its level of morality and values that are aligned with the Constitution and aligned with democracy if Donald Trump is defeated? Because I, for one, don't think so. And I don't know how you really, to your earlier point, how you really, uproot this movement of authoritarianism that is backed by billions of dollars if you don't really let go of this fantasy of the Republican Party making some type of bullshit Reagan-esque return. Yeah, I'm so tired of hearing this and I'm so tired with hearing that there is some sort of

secret deep state savior. You know, first it was Comey and then Mueller and then Syvance and then Merrick Arlen and you know, and they've done it for politicians too. with Pelosi leading the house and Biden getting elected. None of them follow through. None of them hold anyone accountable. They often are enablers of that same mafia apparatus. We often share financial backers with them.

So I would hope by this point, because it's the same play at, you know, this side, which I don't even know how to specify because, yes, it benefits the Republicans, but it requires enabling from the Democratic side. It's like an abuser enabler dynamic. I hope they abandon this. I hope this isn't now Kamala Harris is going to save us because that's not possible. Like Kamala Harris can prevent a disastrous, catastrophic outcome of Donald Trump returning, which would then therefore make a lot of other moves to systematically gut out all of this corruption impossible.

But she, as alone, as an individual, can't do that because the problem is so deep. and it predates her quite a lot. It predates all of us. It involves a lot of very complicated networks that, you know, cross national borders. And it's not really talked about. Like, I've noticed people suddenly willing to talk about authoritarianism and fascism in a way that they definitely were not back in 2016 when I was sounding the alarm about this and people thought I was nuts.

Yeah. They recognize now, you know, that Trump is, of course he's an aspiring dictator. But what they won't acknowledge is the role of. transnational organized crime, both in Trump's individual life, but how it's infiltrated American politics in general. And this is a problem that Americans have handled before through congressional hearings and acknowledgement, you know, the favor hearings of the early 1950s. We're an example like of that, where they admitted, yes, you know, the mafia and organized crime of infiltrated, you know, cities and daily life and Congress. And I've thought that we need hearings akin to that today. I don't

know how that will work now that the tech oligarchs own all the streaming services and routinely just delete content and ban people from seeing things and tweak algorithms and have all those methods that their hands. But, you know, that level of the problem needs to be acknowledged. Institutional complicity needs to be acknowledged. It has been strange for me to see people talk about fascism and then just say, well, folks, you know, it's up to you. You've got to vote it out. And I'm like, I'm sorry, you can't vote out the mafia. You can do a lot. You know, you can do a lot in terms of local activism, protecting your community, stuff like that. But when it comes to the kind of job that Merrick Arland is supposed to do, we as citizens cannot do that. We cannot do a citizen's arrest

of Donald Trump, especially with the Supreme Court. But even of, you know, say Roger Stone or, you know, other accomplices in this. Like, we are incapable of doing that. We do not have that kind of power, that kind of legal methods, that kind of money. You know, we can do what we can. I think it's very unfair to blame the voters because voters went out in a pandemic in 2020 in one of the most heated and dangerous political times of my lifetime. And they voted for Biden so that he and his administration could handle these problems, prevent Trump from returning, and bring accountability, none of which has happened, which is why Trump is there to run again. So we're at an impact. past. I mean, as I said, I do feel better today than I did yesterday now that he is, you know, no longer

running and that Kamala Harris is presumably the candidate, just because it allows us to maybe have these conversations that I think people were very scared to have. They didn't want to say anything that was going to upset items and odds, you know, as his poll numbers were cratering and everything. Now that that's done, I'm hoping folks will just be more honest about what his flaws were and are because he is still there being the president. You know, he has things to mean. to do and just kind of acknowledge there were failures in this administration's serious ones. And Trump being the Republican candidate is the biggest indicator of those failures. Yeah, we will have to leave it there today, Sarah.

But every point that you have made has illuminated the fact that the threat will still remain because votes alone are not enough to stop authoritarianism and the rise of dictatorship. like that is an institutional problem. It is a problem that needs to be rooted out in something alone that the voters cannot do. So I hope that if we're able to make it over this major hurdle obstacle of Mount Everest and win this election, then we can actually begin to get to the root of the problem. Please tell people how they can find you and follow you and your substack and all those good things. I have a substack. It's just Sarah Kensier's substack. So if you Google that, presumably it'll come up. I'm also on Twitter. I refuse to call it anything else under my real name. I have three books, The Beef and Flyer, Country, Heiding, and Plain Sight. And an upcoming book called The Last American Road Trip. It'll be out early next year. I'm going to announce, you know, how to order that soon. So stay tuned. Thank you, Sarah. Really appreciate you, your time and your insight. Oh, thank you for having me back on.

DJ Moody. Andy Levy. Danielle, there's just so much to choose from at this point. But who is your fuck that guy to kick off this very Kamalo week? So we're still in the halo of goodness, but there is bound to be the misogynists and the racist that will begin to rear their, you know, their hooded heads. But somebody whose hood is all the way off and thinks that they are in a position

to make some of the most vile comments on social media, Laura Lumer, who is a known Islamophob, is a known piece of shit, and is a Trump advisor, you know, is the Karenist of Karen's. Took to Twitter, I'm going to read y'all just the first part because the other parts are just too disgusting and I don't want to amplify.

But this is a piece of what she tweeted. It's time for Republicans to start talking about at Kamala Harris's sexual history and the reason why she likely doesn't have any children of her own. What? What? Supporter of a sexual predator said what?

Yeah. The man who fucked a porn star and you all are rallying around him like he's the second coming of Christ? What are you talking about? But what she is talking about and what she is insinuating and not insinuating,

she says it very clearly, is that there must be some cause for her not having children other than the fact that, guess what? In this country for right now, if you are a woman or a person with a uterus and you don't want to have fucking kids, guess what you have the right to do? Not have any fucking kids. And you owe absolutely no one an explanation as to why. Because in a democracy, people have bodily autonomy or are supposed to have bodily autonomy. We know where the Supreme Court sits on that.

now, right? And we know where the Republican Party sits on that and what their blueprint of Project 2025 says about that. But the audacity for her to think that a winning strategy for Republicans would be to try and shame who could possibly be the first Madam President of these United States for not having kids and think that what? You're going to win over women? The Kitchen Katie's, the Katie Brits of the world and their hushed. tones and their handmade tail cloaks are going to come around and like cheer this on and that's going to expand your voter pool is absolute fucking insanity to me. It just shows you. And this is coming from a woman who by the way, I believe is in her 30s and I'll have no fucking kids either.

Yeah. So pot kettle. Shut the fuck up. So I mean, this is just the tip of what will be the racist, misogynist iceberg that we are going to. going to have to experience over the next three and a half months. But it is, you know, what's funny are the quote tweets that are coming in and saying, yeah, Republicans, listen to Laura Lumer and lose even more votes to Kamala. Another one. What's hilarious about this is that Lumer is unmarried and has no children. These people and their projection of what they think a woman should be doing, how dare she be

thinking that she can be the chief of the White House and the chief of this country because she doesn't have children. Okay, well, men have been doing it for how long? And the last time I checked, none of those cis men were able to give birth. So why are they dictating policies for women? For Laura Lumer and all of your ilk, fuck off. And you are my fuck. Welcome, because I think that this may be the first time that that she has joined to fuck that guy, Hall of Fame. So welcome and get comfortable because I'm so certain you're going to live here. Yeah, for sure. This natalist stuff that we're seeing a lot of on the right now is, I think, very undercovered and not talked about enough. And J.D. Vance is really into this and spoke about it. I talked to Sarah Jones from New York Magazine in an interview

I did last week about this, because Vance talked about this at the National Conservative Conference and other things. And it really is. It's become one of their things where they really think of women as almost like brood mares, just as breeders. But the weird thing about, I mean, beyond that, the weird thing with Harris is she has kids. She has two stepchildren. Is it now the view on the right that if you have stepchildren or if you adopt children, that's not good enough. I thought the right was all about adopting. And that's always one of the things they say about for being anti-abortion is bring the child into the world and someone will adopt it if you don't want to raise it. I mean, it's just, it's absolutely.

insane. And it would be nice to just say it's Laura Lumer. We don't have to take her seriously. But Donald Trump takes her seriously. And he's the Republican nominee. So we have to talk about her. Just before we move on, I want to read what Lumer wrote after the death of Sheila Jackson Lee. Oh, oh, oh, good God. Mm-hmm. Let me, yes, but let me breathe. Let me breathe. Let me breathe. Okay. Okay. And obviously, pardon my language in this. But what she wrote on Twitter was, even on her deathbed, this ghetto No bitch couldn't keep President Trump's name out of her disgusting mouth. I'd say rest in peace, but we all know lying Democrats who have just destroyed our country are going to hell. That's what she wrote after Sheila Jackson Lee died.

She's a deranged person. I honestly believe that there's something wrong with her. And it would be easy to just dismiss this as the rantings of a madwoman, except that she does have the ear of Donald Trump. So, yeah, fuck that guy. So, Andy, leading off this good, good week, and I actually mean that, who is your fuck that guy? So my fuck that guy is one of the awful billionaires infecting this country right now, Bill Ackman, and you may remember him from being one of the prime movers, if not the prime mover, in getting rid of Claudine Gay from her Harvard presidency. He also was not a big fan of protesters at universities, the pro-Palestinian protesting. And he said some really lovely things about them.

A few months ago, he said he would not support Joe Biden because he somehow thinks Biden had a lack of support for Israel, which is, okay. I don't know where you get that from. He then eventually endorsed Donald Trump. And he is out there now. And again, this is whatever disease happens to people when they make a certain amount of money, there are a few people who avoid it, but he has fully contracted it. And he's out there sharing clips of or claims that there was a second shooter in the Donald Trump assassination attempt.

He is out there pushing the idea that great replacement theory is true. And he actually even supported Elon Musk's claim about this and sort of brought up. up the Jews as one of the prime movers. He himself is Jewish, so that was a little odd. And most recently, and this is why, among all those other things, is why he's my fuck that guy is he's out there now spreading conspiracy theories about Biden dropping out of the race. He is basically saying that he believes that this was sort of a hostage situation that Joe Biden did not choose to drop out, that that's why it was a a letter and not him actually making a speech, conveniently forgetting the fact, of course,

that President Biden has COVID right now. He's reached that point where he believes every little conspiracy theory that comes his way. And again, this is a guy with a ton of money, a ton of money that will be supporting Donald Trump. I am so sick of these guys. And so I just wanted to draw attention to him and give him a nice, loud, fuck that guy.

I mean, you couldn't have said it. better and what a resume he has. Fuck that guy. Tech Bros. New Favorite hobby making political fan fiction. Yeah. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the DailyBeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber.

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