The Daily Beast Podcast - Comedian Tim Heidecker Thinks Joe Rogan’s Show Is ‘Boring’

Episode Date: October 30, 2022

Comedian and On Cinema actor Tim Heidecker wants to make one thing clear: He does not want Joe Rogan canceled. But that doesn’t stop Heidecker from airing his displeasure with the podcaster and his show, which he does without pause on this bonus episode of The New Abnormal. Plus! He and host Andy Levy talk about the event that made Heidecker even more socialist (Betsy DeVos is involved) and what he thinks about the Kanye West elephant in the room: “You can be mentally ill and an idiot, too, right? You can have both of those things going on.” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. And I'm producer Jesse Kennan, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some great guest co-hosts, as well as some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try to make some sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello, and welcome to another bonus episode of The New Abnormal,

and we thank you so much for being here. Hey, we're back with another Sunday episode of The New Abnormal, where I talk to someone who isn't from the political world about, yeah, politics, but also about what they're up to and what they're interested in. Today's guest is a comedian, an actor, a writer, a director, a musician, Lord knows what else. His brilliant show on cinema just started its new season this week.

Please give a warm podcast welcome to Tim High. Decker. Tim, thank you so much for being here. Oh, my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. That's my generic podcast greeting to get things started. Do you have a button that you just pressed for that? I have a button. Yeah, on a loop machine. I'd like a montage of all my podcast greetings put together. If you could work on that. Okay, I'll get on that. Let's start with a little bit of politics. You're a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. What drew you to the DSA? That's a good question if I am. I don't know if I'm in, um, I'm in a

The current standing, I'm supportive of them. I don't know if I have my card on me. I don't remember when they started doing this, but when they were going into restaurants and harassing members of the Trump, I think it was like, who was that, Betsy DeVos or somebody? I was like, okay, I'm into this. I'm into this sort of direct action. And then, you know, I kind of dug in a little deeper and found them to be a good resource for

local community activism and they're a great source of information, for instance, like voting this, in California, you know, it's just very confusing to know who to vote for, you know, when it comes down to like judges and propositions and stuff. So they're just like a good resource if you want to lean fairly left. And Hugo Martinez running here for city council, like certain people that are affiliated or members of the DSA that I think are important to support. Yeah, and Los Angeles also can be a little confusing because you have things like you have Republicans like Rick Caruso running for mayor as a Democrat. Right. It's a mess. And obviously the big city council shakeup shows the corruption and, you know, how corrupt the Democratic Party can tend to be, especially in a city that is run by that party. So I just think a little shake and pressure from the left is always a good thing.

And especially on a local community level, it seems to work really well because the people that are, you know, coming in from that have close ties to their community and have direct action, you know, initiatives to make real changes on a very small personal level for people. So if it works, it really hasn't had an opportunity to fully work. because you're still dealing with a lot of entrenched laws and policies and stuff in the city. But, you know, it could become a good model to show how some of these ideas can work and that can grow, you know, outside of just the communities and cities and into a better country. Yeah. And look, let's be honest, being in the DSA in Hollywood makes you very cool.

Fourth tier hipster, or it's top hipster level. It brings you back to your son. Overlake days. Yeah. And look, obviously there's a lot of overlap between politics and just culture in general. And so, for example, like, how about those Kanye's? I mean, it's just unreal what's been going on. I tried to stay away.

But last night, I was just drawn into that Lex Friedman interview. But it's bananas, you know, it's just, I'm not coming from a place of ever being a fan of his, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, I never, and just this is who I am. I can't help who I am. I never understood the genius label and, you know, I just never clicked with it. I'm not like let down by that or him or he always seemed dubious to me.

So it's obviously sensitive because when you're dealing with mental illness, I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist. I can't really analyze it from that perspective, except it seems like something's up, you know, like kind of all the red flags are flying in the wind. It's fascinating to watch in real time. I mean, we've seen this happen before with people that are like spinning out in front of us. But it's that John Mullaney horse in the hospital kind of metaphor that we're all just kind of watching this thing happen. So I don't know. Of course, it's kind of entertaining too.

Again, as you said, it's really hard to parse like where the mental illness and anti-Semitism breaks from each other. Exactly. You know, as you kind of said, it's sort of like not even comfortable to talk about because obviously there are a lot of people who suffer from mental illness who aren't. bigots. Right. And there are a lot of bigots who, I guess, technically don't suffer from mental illness in the clinical sense, right. Yeah, exactly. So you have to feel empathy for someone with a mental illness, but at a certain point, you also have to say, like, well, hold on. It's not fair to other mentally ill people to just say, oh. They hide behind that, yeah. Yeah, like to say, that's his mental illness talking when he goes off on the Jews and stuff like that. Yeah, I mean,

you can be mentally ill and an idiot, too. Right. You can have both. of those things going on. And I grabbed a clip from his interview yesterday and I was sent it to a friend. And he's like, oh, you should put that out. And I'm like, why, isn't it kind of touchy right now with the mental illness? And he's like, well, no, it's like, you can make fun of him for being an idiot. Like, that's fair, you know. Right. So it was just this moment where Lex Friedman, who I don't, like, there's a whole world out there that I don't really understand and don't want to. But this like, I don't know if you know this guy, Lex Friedman. I mean, he's very popular. Yeah. He's. got this huge podcast or he's huge on YouTube, I know, but I don't know him at all.

Now we're just like two old guys talking. I know. You know, and it's like, I hear myself and I don't like it. Yeah. It's true. It's just like, it's the same pond of like Rogan and Jordan Peterson and a number of these guys that have this platform that's like, it seems to be, it's hard to tell what's real anymore because of, you know, some things get, get millions and millions of views.

but then like if you'd asked anybody in a coffee shop, they'd never heard of them. But all these shows, this format of the long form podcast, and maybe this is that too, but it's like, is so boring. It's like these guys just droning on.

And this Lex Freeman is... Tim, thank you for being here. No, no, no. Not this. When I'm on it, it's fun. But in particular, this Lex Friedman is like dry. The Kanye one is kind of not.

boring because you're watching this guy spin out and speak and like I'm making notes because like this is all going into on cinema at some point, you know? Of course. But in general, this guy's very quiet and slow and analytical and kind of talks like a robot. And I don't know. I guess people put it on to go to sleep maybe or, you know, I don't know how people get drawn into this as entertainment, but they are. Yeah. And again, like the whole thing that happened, not that long ago with the try guys. Yeah. There was this big ado because one of the tri guys cheated on his wife.

The tri guys, they're on YouTube and they have millions of listeners or viewers, whatever. And I'm like, I don't know who these people are. I have aged out of needing to know who these people are. I think I'm much more comfortable yelling at young people for not watching black and white movies. Yeah, I mean, like if you want to shock to your system, log out of YouTube and sign in as a new viewer. And it feels like it's like a good way to like travel to a different planet, you know? Yeah, I never thought of that. Yeah, that's like the fresh YouTube user experience. Like just

right walking into a new planet. Oh God. I recommend it and I don't recommend it. All right. So talk to me about On Cinema, which is this absolutely unbelievable multimedia. Someone, someone tweeted the other day, it was like a prompt tweet saying ancient Greece had the Odyssey or the Ilya, whatever. Right. And like, what is the great American saga? And it kind of struck me just last night. I was like, it's kind of on cinema.

I would say it's the Sopranos or somebody, I saw that. I mean, not to derail my own promotion here, but I thought that was a great question posed to the internet. I mean, the Grapes of Wrath is a good one, too. But the Sopranos has got to be the Sopranos, right? Yeah, a lot of people said Star Wars, which I get. What? I don't get that at all.

Well, I get it. No, just in terms of. of scope and how much of it there is. And it's an American-made product. Yeah. You know, the one thing that people are going to remember about American 20th, 21st century culture. Like, yeah, you could argue it's Star Wars.

I could argue it's on cinema. Right. Let's not argue. Let's agree that on cinema is wonderful. It's been like 10, 11 years now, which is unbelievable. And so explain to our listeners who may not know, which I know is hard to believe, what exactly it is. It started as kind of this parody of Siskel and Ebert, you know, two guys talking about the movies coming out this week. And there are clearly two guys that don't like each other,

which I guess was maybe the case with Siskel and Ebert, but don't like each other, seem to have their own agendas, don't seem to know too much about the movies they're talking about. Pretty quickly, we developed these characters and realized that we could sort of make this fairly low budget show, where a lot happens in a sort of a soap opera sense, but not a lot of it needs to be seen because it's just two guys talking kind of about their week. And so we kind of just kept building these characters in this world

and this megalomaniac who's played by myself with my own name, you know, who is sort of a Trumpy, you know, shyster entrepreneur with a million schemes and visions of grandeur, you know, contrasted with a guy who's just stubbornly stuck in this obsessive world of liking movies for all the wrong reasons, you know? Right.

And from that, we sort of saw that television, we considered a television show that was on Adult Swim's website, so whatever you want a web show, that it was a show that could live outside of the 11 minutes in various ways. And it existed sort of on Twitter and in chat rooms and in spin-off shows and that it was kind of, you know, a universe of fans and, you know, me and Eric Nautornikola and Greg Turkington building out this world. And it can live in all kinds of formats. And yeah, it just, it gets crazier and crazier.

But it always, always what it is at the core. It's always this kind of battle between these two very different people trying to kind of push their agenda. And it's just very fun and funny. And a couple years ago, sort of adult swim, if anyone has noticed, is kind of disintegrated. Yeah. And there isn't really a place on cable for this kind of show or really any kind of alternative comedy. Very few places are involved with that kind of stuff right now. I think right around the pandemic, we always do a big live Oscar special every year.

And it's this big production, three hours of kind of being on the air live and all kinds of stuff happens. And the pandemic kind of shifted everything. So the Oscars were a little bit later. Adult Swim wasn't going to be making any more of the show. And we just kind of said, let's see if we can do this on our own with a subscription model like a lot of people are doing now. Certainly, you know, news publications and stuff. And there's a lot of precedent for it, but we, we wanted to do it since we have our own universe built. It felt like a

great repository for not just the show, but all of our various spinoffs and ideas, and that the site itself can become part of the joke. And it almost is the perfect show for it to have its own kind of subscription model because of all the flim flammery and, and, and, you know, and, you know, And, you know, snake oils style ideas involved with the show that the site would be a good place for that to live. So, you know, we launched it two years ago. And since then, we've been able to do everything we've always done before and more. We've been able to make the show kind of sustainable and afford to make the new season,

which is out now and Oscar specials and movies. And, you know, it's kind of annoying because I'd love to do a ton of things with that. model, but the world of on cinema is so kind of strict, you know, I can't do other projects under that banner. But there's still, I'm sure you've played around with the site or seen what's going on with the site, but it's our own little mini Netflix, you know, for that world. So it feels good. It's a lot of work and it's a lot of stress.

I'm sure. We're like last night putting up the new episode and like getting last minute graphics changes. and I'm just like in my bed texting everybody. How are we? Where is this? You know, like can we, is it going to get up in time? And so it's like you're running a network with no infrastructure, really, except, you know, a half a dozen people that love it and care about it and work really

hard. Maybe it would be great to have the safety and support of a big network making your stuff. But this is also really a challenging but fun way to do it. It feels good. I mean, it started out, a five-minute podcast, right? was you and Greg. When you started it, it had to have been, I mean, I have to imagine it was something of like a lark. Like, hey, let's do this and see what happens.

And there was no way you had any idea that it was going to become this huge universe with other characters. I know I could say the very first episode, it was a podcast and it was Greg and I were both working on the movie, the comedy, and we're roommates for a week or so in New York. And I think it was just at this time when podcasts, especially, Mark Maren's show, but not just, this isn't really a dig at Mark. It felt like there was a lot of other sort of superfluous, I like to hear myself talk kind of podcasts that were just dropping all over the place. You know, Greg and I kind of, we're very good and like honing in on very specific things that annoy him that he sees in the culture that suck or, you know, just

egregious to him. And that particular moment in time felt like there was just all these people blabbing about nothing, putting it out. And so we were literally just on my phone, like, let's do a movie podcast where we talk about movies that we know nothing about. And we did celebrating very dry and very lacking in any kind of information and no preparation and just all right, Ghostbusters, go. What do you think about? Oh, this is a, it's a great movie, really good movie and a lot of fun. And it's just like a time wasting experiment, really. Right. You know, I think pretty quickly we developed those characters and enjoyed doing it enough. that we just kind of kept doing it.

And I think just at some point, I started telling the audience about my life, you know, and then you get this tension right away where Greg doesn't want me to talk about my life. He wants me to talk about the movie. And then we immediately pick up on that, oh, that's a really fun comedic dynamic to have, is to have these two guys that want different things

competing for the time on the show. And it just kind of spun out from there. Yeah, and you know, you mentioned earlier that in this on-cinema universe, you play Tim Heidecker, but no offense, you are an absolutely idiotic asshole. Yeah. And as you said, you're sort of like this Trumpian conservative type of figure. So I guess my question is, what is it like pretending to be that?

And I'm particularly curious because I used to work with some people who are now playing that same character for real on their TV shows. The second part of that is, are there people who think that's really you? There must be. I imagine that there are. I occasionally there's confusion. I mean, when I when Donald Trump was running, we did an episode where my character endorsed him and read read an endorsement statement that was bananas and and very poorly constructed. And to me and you and most people who get it and are hip to what comedy should be, it was clearly like, you know, a satire of what a person who would be voting for Trump, you know, ends up sounding like. There was confusion about that from from the darker parts of the internet and people. So yeah, there's occasional confusion, but, you know, I don't, it doesn't bother us. It's, it's, it's fairly well understood by the fans. It's a, you know, maybe an original

sin of the show that we just didn't come up with two other character names, you know, like, maybe would have made our lives a little easier, but it's such a better bit to have it be your real names. Yeah, at the time, and to some degree still, I think it's interesting to have me be this person that contains multitudes, you know, there's that Andy Kaufman thing of who's who and it's a little less interesting to me now, but it certainly was very interesting to me 10 years ago. Yeah. And so season 13 of On Cinema just started and it's now called, it used to be called On Cinema at the Cinema. Yeah. Now it's On Cinema and More in the Morning. And so somehow you've morphed into a morning show now. Yes. We were always looking at stuff.

Last season felt like this kind of, there's that show that Ben Shapiro and his pals do that's them like sitting around smoking cigars. Yes. If you've seen that, it's just, so we're like, we're always kind of modeling stuff on the world out there. And this was an idea we've always wanted to try and do. And, you know, the things that make us laugh are the things that hopefully eventually make everybody else laugh. But is that title on cinema and more in the morning is just an awful title, you know? It's amazing. And it's a mess coming out of your mouth.

You know, that stuff is really what just delights us. And we were playing around with the logo as late as yesterday, getting the final things ready. And it didn't work. But like the things that we love to focus on is like, I wanted the title to be like on cinema. And then Ann Moore in would be the third, second line.

And then the morning would be the third line, you know. So you're looking at this. And it just looks so ugly to read that Ann Moore in is on. is on one line. It's just that, I don't know, very small things make us laugh and then obviously very big things that are going to come later in the season. But it still delights me the whole thing. Like when we get our cuts in, you know, a couple weeks ahead of the air just as exciting. I can't. Generally, Greg and I laugh because we shoot the whole show in like a day and a half or two days at the most. Just block it out. Just boom, boom, boom. And so at the end of that experience,

we have like amnesia about what we did because it moves so quick. We do like two takes. of everything. So I forget, at the end of the day, it's like, it's been wiped from my mind what we ended up doing. So getting these cuts is exciting to watch, almost like a new viewer. And it just makes me laugh. Like, it just, it still entertains me. This, Greg is still hilarious. And I have not tired of doing that character. I've not tired of the format. It's just, there's always going to be movies coming out, you know, that was always kind of our motto. Yeah, there's always pray for the devil and then have a 10-minute argument over whether it's PRAY or P-R-E-Y, which is in the first episode this season, which is just, it's just amazing because it starts out.

For people who have never watched, it's Greg Turkington giving this review of a movie that he clearly doesn't understand at all, but he loves movies. So you sort of, you know, at least for me anyway, you become a bit of a Greghead because at least he loves movies. And then it's you being upset that the name of the title is pray for the devil because that's not the kind of message you want to spread on the show. And then you say, but thankfully it's spelled P-R-E-Y and you're looking at your card. And then Greg is like, no, it's not. It's P-R-A-Y. And then you'll start, no, it says here on the card. And this devolves into like a five-minute argument about what's on the card. Yeah, but what's on the card doesn't matter. It's what's on the posters and what's the movie actual

title and it's just so surreal but at the same time it's somehow also a great parody of morning shows. The morning show format has been spoofed enough that it's not the most groundbreaking thing to do, but it's more like I said earlier, this idea that even though we change formats and we change sets and there's new people that come in, it's essentially this same guy rolling the boulder up the mountain, whatever that Greek analogy is. You know, it's it's the same dynamic. But the other thing, I was just going to say, because I know on Twitter, you jump into the conversation, and I think it's another very unique, and I don't, there might be other examples of this, but I can't think of one, and I think it's going to start going more this way with traditional television, is that

the show's audience participates in, like, they're in character, they play along. Right. And so you, it was like, you know, professional wrestling or something it's been compared to, but you take sides with these characters. And when, you, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's the audience is engaging online, it's off like, you know, when this episode dropped, all the Gregheads are coming out saying how much they hate it and how they're upset. Right. We need more movie talk. And it becomes this, you know, multiplayer role-playing experience that people just love and enjoy

being active participants in the story of the show. I just think that's very unique. And it happened completely organically. It wasn't like we sat around and designed it to happen. It was the audience that came with that attitude. And partly, I think because we play, I'm not exclusively that character on Twitter, but a lot of times I communicate storylines and, you know, there's conflict between me and Greg on Twitter. It's been going on for years that you can, like, see happening in real time. And, I mean, tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't know about any other show that engages in different ways like that.

So maybe it is the great American epic. That's what I'm saying. It's absolutely amazing. And particularly the Twitter stuff. And what's amazing about the Twitter stuff is like sometimes you are the real Tim Heidecker. And then other times you're the character Tim Heidecker. And you can always tell because the spelling is terrible. Yeah.

That's my cue. As I just typos galore. Yeah. And it's amazing. But no, I think you're right. And I am, you know, I'm an avowed Greg Head, you know, till I die. Yeah. The other thing I was going to bring up about the dynamic and the show that I think,

and go back to this pray for the devil joke. is we always try to make sure that as the show moves forward, it's not this one-sided thing where I'm this brute idiot with no redeeming qualities and just an abuser. I am most of those things, but we make sure that I'm right sometimes, and I'm sometimes more reasonable than Greg. And what we want to make the audience feel is like,

it's hard to root for either of these guys, you know? Well, Greg has killed people. Yeah, I mean, there's like a rotten, to him that is sort of more subtle and more pathetic. And we love playing with the idea that there is not really a good guy, bad guy, straight man, funny man, that these are two complicated characters that are not always one thing. But we're always like, almost like in the Breaking Bad model of like, you're going to be identified as a Greghead, like good luck.

It's going to be a rocky road because this guy has his own problems that are very different. But, like, you know, there's a pathetic quality to that character for sure and both of them. And so, yeah, that's the kind of early conversations we always have about the season and how the show's going to go is how do we make them dynamic and, you know, not just one note. Before I let you go, I have to ask, I think it was last year. I think it was 2021. You did an unbelievable parody of Joe Rogan show along with the hilarious comedians, Rajat Suresh and Jeremy Levick. Yeah. And it just sort of dropped out of nowhere.

I don't know if you had had it planned for a long time and just didn't tell anyone or if it was like a last minute thing. You're like, hey, let's do this. But it just kind of felt like it dropped out of nowhere. And it is just an absolutely amazing hour of just it's like everything you do. It's funny in its own right, but it's also just an unbelievable parody of Rogan. Thank you. I mean, it doesn't look or sound like him, which sometimes are better. You know, it's not like a, it's not, it's, it's a parody of not an impression, I guess. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that, that definitely came here on office hours as like just, again, I kind of honed in on what I felt is the most egregious part of that show, which is the is how boring it is, how it's nothing, there's no progress being made. There's no, there's no conclusion to it. Like, I don't know. I've never seen the end of one of those episodes, you know, because I just eventually tap out because I, it's just. It's just. self-obsessed or whatever it is that it's just these like just the most boring conversations over and over again every day with with sometimes interesting people that he seems to suck

the life out of and so i just i'm confused and can't understand the appeal and the popularity aside from like sort of the the dangerous rhetoric that ends up coming up on that show over and over again so instead of just kind of doing a you know uh daily show style kind of take down of politics of it. I just wanted to put the focus on the entertainment value of it or just the absurdity of some of the long, the long windedness of it, the circles that these guys tend to get into. And yeah, so I love Rajat and Jeremy. I think they're hilarious and asked them to do it. And we were all on the same page. I think the plan was we just kind of had a Google Doc with some names of books and names of fake comedians and doctors.

and, you know, just had a little bit of a reference guide. They had some things they had in mind. But I just said, let's just roll and shoot the shit and try not to make any demonstrable points that matter, you know, and just try to talk and double speak, which that's the vibe I get from that show. Yeah, what you really nailed for me is, like, people always say about Joe Rogan, his fans, and even some of his detractors will say, well, but he's very curious. He's very open-minded.

And I'm always like, no, he's not curious. He's credulous. Like he just, he hears things, and he's like a real life David St. Hubbins from Spinal Tap where he believes everything. He reads everything and believes virtually everything. Yeah, it's a great line. And you captured that so perfectly, like Rajat or Jeremy would say something so absurd, and you would just, and you go, that's fascinating. How did we get here?

Wow. Yeah. And you captured it so perfectly, and it's exactly what I don't like about Rogan. And so I loved it. Well, thanks. Yeah, we dropped it on Thanksgiving and just put it on a little. I think that was part of why it kind of blew up a little bit was because we just had it running all day. And the quick take on it was that we actually did it for this crazy amount of time, you know, because it appeared that I was right. Because that's the thing about Rogus, they appear to just start in the mid, like they start recording like in the middle of a conversation. I never hear any kind of conclusion and never hear any kind of like, you know, there's no breaks except for reading ads. And it's that feeling of like I feel like I'm losing my mind. listening to these people talking that I don't have a way into. They all seem to know each other.

That was the thing about that Lex Friedman Kanye. It's like he keeps saying what a great friend he is and how I care about him. It's like, how do you all know? You're like, where's everybody meeting up? Like, how do you get in that scene? I mean, not that I want to be, but it's just like, the other one that's added now is Bill Maher with his club random, if you've got a chance to watch. That's like sub-rogan content going on in his basement of horrors. We're all guilty of blabbing too much, I guess, but it's just the preponderance. It's just, I can't wrap my head around. It's cheap to make.

That's probably the big plus for these people. You know, it's cheap to make these shows. But other than that, it just seems like nothing's, nothing's getting accomplished from these conversations. And no learning is happening and no entertainment is happening. But who am I to say any of this? Because it's popular. I'm just one man's reaction to it.

I mean, it's, you know, keep doing these shows. I'm not trying to say, first of all, I'm not trying to say nobody, I'm not trying to cancel anybody and say. You are trying to cancel, that's our headline, I think, from this is Tim Heidecker cancels Joe Rogan. Go for it. And, you know, I even, I got a lot of shit because I felt uncomfortable supporting Spotify because he's like their major guy, you know, and. Right. And all I'd said was, I don't want to pay Spotify anymore, you know, like, I don't want to pay Spotify anymore, you know, like I don't want to pay. that because I like other platforms better and there's a million reasons to not like what Spotify's doing. And I just get, you know, piled on saying I want to cancel Joe Rogan's like, no, I just don't want to

throw money into that pot. But everybody could do what they do. You, you asked me to come on a show. I'm going to tell you what I think. That's all there is to it. I don't really have an agenda. Okay. I don't know why I got so defensive there. I apologize. You really did. Wow. I know. Turn into On Cinema Tim there. It really did. All right. Well, much like Greg Tirkington, I'm looking at the time of this podcast. Unfortunately, we are out of it.

So, Tim, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. It was so much fun talking to you. This is how I closed my podcast interviews. I say, thanks for having me. Hope you enjoyed checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going.

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