The Daily Beast Podcast - Does Rudy Giuliani Have an Ounce of Pride Left?

Episode Date: October 20, 2020

Rick Wilson spent years working for Rudy Giuliani. He used to look up to his boss, the mayor. These days, he can barely look down without spitting. “The worst possible Greek tragedy doesn't encompass the fall of Rudy, from calamity to clown show to complete moral and physical collapse,” Rick tells co-host Molly Jong-Fast on the latest episode of The New Abnormal. “The fact that Trump views him and uses him as this hatchet man, his delivery boy for these absurd attacks… You know, there's a part of me that like, ‘Do you have no fucking pride left? You only get trotted out for the shit jobs like these. You only get brought out and hosed off once every few months when Donald Trump has to do something disgusting.’” Caroline Giuliani, Rudy’s daughter, isn’t happy with the decisions he’s made, either. That’s why she recently announced that she’s voting for Joe Biden. “I felt like I had an obligation just because it's, it's just so bad. We're in such a crisis,” she tells Molly. “I want to be on record as being on the right side of history. I also felt like people feel so alone right now. I've had such a great reaction from so many people just saying, ‘Thank you... You articulated things I've been feeling.’ And it just made me feel a little less alone.” Then! Alabama Sen. Doug Jones talks about why his opponent, Tommy Tuberville, is even worse than Roy Moore, the last guy he beat.  Want more? Become a Beast Inside member to enjoy a limited-run series of bonus interviews from The New Abnormal. Guests include Cory Booker, Jim Acosta, and more. Head to newabnormal.thedailybeast.com to join now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi folks, it's Rick Wilson, and welcome to The Daily Beast's The New Abnormal. Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, a left-wing pundit and editor-at-large at the Daily Beast. I'm also an editor at The Daily Beast, a former Republican political strategist, best-selling author, and full-time troublemaker. We're here to have fun, sharp conversations with some of the smartest people in media, politics, business, and science that help make what's happening in the country and the world clearer. I'll try to keep Rick to the minimum number of F-bombs and try to keep our... kids, pets, and other wildlife sounds from invading our respective bunkers. Rick Wilson. Yes, Molly Jong Fast.

How are you? I am just great because I love the flood of misinformation that we are getting fed on a regular. Trump world is now, it feels like they're just throwing everything at the wall they possibly can. Well, they are. I mean, let's bear in mind today they pulled down their buys in two more states. Ooh, which ones? Constant and Minnesota. Those seem like states they would want to win.

You would think that in the Electoral College map, those would be states that would be somewhere on their agenda. However, they are out of money, and they're also broke, and they're also panhandling, and they're also basically destitute, as well as down to their last Bitcoin. Wait, so do they have money problems? Is that what you're saying? A little bit, a little bit. If you're wondering why the president of the United States flew to Newport Beach, California, this weekend. It was not because they have a brilliant scheme to win California. Really?

It was a cash grab. Here's one of the interesting fun facts that people are not always aware of. About a quarter of the Republicans in the country live in California. Right. There's a huge number of people out there. And there's some Republican money out there, even though most of it's very, very shy right now because Trump is, of course, what's the word I'm looking for? A loser. And perhaps a sucker?

He may also be a sucker, and he's definitely a baby, and I think you could make the case for also being a dope. So the thing that got him so crazy this morning, and we're taping this on Monday, was that he read Maggie Haberman's piece in the Times. And Maggie Haberman's piece in the Times, the headline is amazing. Trump attacks Fauci as a disaster and dismisses fears about the still raging coronavirus pandemic. And then he says Fouchy's bad for ratings. But then my favorite moment was when she said that actually people in the campaign are looking for jobs. Well, I can tell you, Maggie's reporting on the people in the campaign looking for jobs is absolutely correct. The junior staffers are in fear that they're going to be not only not paid for their last month of work,

but they're also in fear that they've made a terrible mistake and that they're never going to be able to. get a job again. Because, you know, these kids are going to be out there in a couple years, and their resume, it's going to be like, well, what did you do in 2019 and 2020? And it'll be like, yeah, I was in prison. Because that'll sound better. That'll sound better than being on the fucking Trump campaign. Yeah. I mean, morale in the White House and morale in the campaign is essentially rock bottom. You've got Jason Miller, you know, the human shton Jason Miller, wandering around, I'm trying to making the case that, you know, this is in fact, the glorious dear leader is perfect and everything's fine and we're going to win. There's going to be a giant red wave.

Well, by the way, that call that Trump had today with the campaign where he said, where that was widely reported by everyone in the world, said, he basically said, we're definitely going to win now. Yeah. Look, politics is a fickle business. And even though I am an empiricist, I'm, I'm, I have been through enough campaigns where you don't jinx your shit. Right. And he was firing brimstone on that call today. But it was, of course, two things, as they always do. First off, it's constant, endless projection.

Right. Constant. Never ends, okay? Never ends. And secondly, you know, this is the wishcasting in the bubble that they're desperate for their people to believe in. But it just doesn't sell. I mean, when he gets on there today and says, my relationship with Steppian and Miller and Ronna McDaniel is phenomenal.

That means they're getting fired. Right, that he screams at them until he goes blue in the face and sits down and has to do some heavy breathing for a while before he screams at them some more. And this whole thing, this rah-rah, okay, again, always projection. When he comes in on that call and elsewhere, saying the Biden's are a criminal enterprise, you should be in jail, they should all be in jail, it's a criminal enterprise. The level of projection here is so phenomenal. It is so lavish. It is so insanely over the top that only Donald Trump would even try to get away with it and not have people staring at him like, what the fuck is wrong with you, bro? You know it's character counts week in the White House.

Oh, I love that. Hey, Molly, speaking of characters who count, do you miss Charlie Kirk? I do not miss Charlie Kirk. I actually think they put him back on. Going on Fox News may have gotten Charlie Kirk back on Twitter. Charlie Kirk, for those of you Americans who don't know, had a Twitter timeout because he was very, very, very naughty on the Twitter machine and uses bots and spreads the worst kind of election or election fraud data.

He's generally a shit-to-your-human being, but he definitely had a bad weekend. And of course, as with everything in Trump world these days, the first fallback on every single issue is the liberal media hates Trump. And then the second fallback on every single issue is social media. companies are stacking the deck against us. And I think also Trump world is really worried about this, the debates, because he got so creamed. He got beat like a rented mule at the last debate.

And so that letter that Bill Steppian sent today, that heavy breathing, eye-rolling, scenery chewing, hair-tearing, you know, hair shirt-wearing letter. Pro-Biden antics. Yeah, antics was a sign that the campaign staff is trying to get a predicate enough in the mind for Trump to say, I'm not doing it. It's too many libtards. Blah, blah, blah. There's nothing that he will benefit from in a debate. The commission's pro-Biden antics have turned the entire debate season into a fiasco. And it's little wonder why the public has lost faith in its objectivity. Yeah, you know, I'm just going to be honest about something. If I went to a hundred

Americans and put a gun to their head and said, describe for me the debate commissions, there'd be a hundred dead people because, you know what? No one knows what it is. debate commissions are. Even the most nerdy inside politics goofballs like me cannot sit there and go, well, the debate commission's rules are. It is like an ancient secret society. And it is a, it is a very establishment on both sides. It is a very cautious on both sides organization that does things in itty-bitty increments. I mean, like the Vatican changes policy more quickly than the debate commissions. Yeah, I'm concerned. Besides the fact, that Trump had that crazy call that was reported on by everyone in the entire world,

meaning that there are like 57 sources, media sources in the Trump campaign. He was losing his shit on that call. I mean, we have 15 days left. What's your prediction? I mean, I'm seeing like these Hunter Biden attacks seem to be getting dirtier and dirtier. And as one does consider the source, the Russian intelligence services, Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, Two of those individuals who have reached a point where by some strange inertia, real reporters still call them.

Yeah. And it's not just because they want to see the freak show. There's a strange inertia with both of those guys where some people still take them seriously. Steve Bannon is the plaything of a billionaire Chinese sugar daddy who he is somehow flim flammed into thinking that Steve Bannon will be the one who brings down the Chinese government, good luck. And, you know, Rudy Giuliani has reached the point where it went from the arc of Rudy is the worst possible Greek tragedy doesn't encompass the fall of Rudy. From calamity to clown show to complete, you know, moral and physical collapse. The fact that Trump views him and uses him as this hatchet man, this person of hatchet, if you would like me to be more politically correct. as his delivery boy for these absurd attacks.

Remember, Rudy was party to the bet Donald Trump made in 2018 tried to knock Joe Biden out of the box. Rudy was his errand boy then. And he's continued that role. And there's got a part of me that really's, it's like, Rudy, do you have no fucking pride left? You only get trotted out for the shit jobs like these. You only get brought out and hosed off once every few months

when Donald Trump has to do something disgusting. I would say with Steve Bannon, the issue is that all you need to know is he's out on bail, right? And he was... Not for long. And he was arrested on the yacht of said Chinese billionaire. So, by the way, a little bird has told me that there may be a complaint filed against Mr. Bannon for receiving stolen property. And... Is that the computer?

Uh-huh. Nice. That may be a problem. That may end up as a violation of his bail. I mean... Good luck, Steve. When Steve Bannon's in prison, by the way, I plan to send him the most outrageously fun gifts. It's going to be amazing.

I'm just going to give a little backstory to listeners here. Rick Wilson hates Steve Bannon because Steve Bannon actually did really terrible things to him. Four and a half years ago when Steve Bannon was thought as like a brilliant mastermind and not complete failure, but a terrifying criminal mastermind, he put the addresses of a lot of members of. Bannon was very personally responsible for threats and attacks on my kids. And so, as I've told Steve, you will never escape me. Even when I'm retired, I'm just going to do it for a hobby. That's wonderful. The other thing that Trump has pivoted to, which I'm not sure is a winning message during a pandemic,

is Trump has said that Biden, why you shouldn't elect Biden because Biden will listen to scientists. and which you would think might actually be. And he's doing... God damn, what's next, Molly's going to listen to doctors? You know, them with their big life agenda. Right. I mean, exactly, he's going to listen to it. Well, and then he's at a rally right now in Arizona,

which is a state he desperately needs to win and will likely lose. Trump says Biden wants to listen to Dr. Fauci. Good God, the horror. And then the crowds... I mean, can you imagine? Imagine. The crowd starts booing and yelling, lock him up. Of course they do.

This entire idea that, oh, it's just joking. It's just Trump being Trump. I promise you, if Joe Biden walked out and let his crowd in a lock him up chant, which is wildly more justified for Donald Trump at any members of his crappulous criminal enterprise of a family, full of these low grifters and hangers on, the right-wing media would lose its collective shit. How dare he threaten their lives. It's so outrageous. Well, we've saw a little bit of that with this.

There's a CBS reporter who keeps trying to get Joe angry and asking these questions. And then he sort of tweets out the Angry Joe comment as a way of sort of showing that it seems like Angry Joe should not really be comparable to autocrat Trump. Everyone loses their temper now and then. Even me. Actually, though, you are very good-tempered, really. I will share my grandmother's great admonition to someone one time. Speaking of me, she said, that boy does not have a temper, but, oh, Lord, he has a mean streak.

Oh, grandma. She ain't even wrong. But what I'm saying is the idea that angry Joe Biden exists is fine. Whatever. The real deal, though, is that Joe Biden is a normal human. being with a normal set of emotional cues and prompts. Donald Trump gets in a rage because he doesn't think someone from the administration was on Fox adequately defending his honor.

Or he loses his mind because he's in a story on page A3, not on the front page. It is always projection with these people. Joe Biden has dementia. That's because they know Donald Trump does. Joe Biden's corrupt because they know Donald Trump is. I actually think that the media has learned a lot of lessons since 2016. And they're being much more careful. And this weekend, there was this article. So there have been multiple articles in the post. And it turns out that the sources of these

post stories about Hunter Biden's laptop, which includes basically text messages to his dad saying, like, I'm an alcoholic. I'm so sorry. That the two sources for the story were Steve Bannon, Rudy and that no one else wanted to put their names on it and that this was sort of the brainchild the Times had a story yesterday that this was just the brainchild of Carl Allen. It was partly Call Allen, but it was also, of course, the flotsam of the Trump's sewage barge following behind him. It's Bannon and Rudy and Call Allen and some other people in Rupert's world who still want to play this game and who love the idea of being the transgressive, you know, New York Post once again before they're finally sucked up.

by the tide of history. Nothing about this entire Biden story is working the way they thought it would work. That's the real underlying issue here. They thought that Rudy would pitch this and that Fox would immediately jump on it and it would become the biggest story of all time. And it hasn't. It's just not working out in the way they thought. It's not getting out there in the public mind the way they thought. And it is a failed strategy. It's not even working to secure their base. The base is still falling off. And every couple of days we see a little bit of more falling off of the Republican base in our state polls. I'm sure you've heard some of the comments about never Trumpers, Molly. You've heard of that group? No, tell me more about these never

Trumpers. There are only eight of us. We're totally irrelevant. We're just bitter ex-consultants who just didn't get a job with Donald Trump as we all dreamed of doing our whole lives. And there's none of us. There's none of us. The party's perfectly united. A red wave is coming and everything is fine. Except Mr. C. Bannon, the aforementioned, set a thing called the Bannon line. And he's said if three or four percent, the Lincoln Project and others can get three or four percent of Republicans to flake, then it's over. Well, right now that number is in the 11 to 14 category in my round of morning surveys in the battleground states. It's rising fast in other places. In fact, in these down-ballot races, now for things like state house and state Senate and county

officials all over the country, you're looking at 20 plus percent of Republicans vote in the other way. Wow. He has destroyed everything for them. He is Donald Trump, the destroyer of worlds. Wait, so are you saying that everything Trump touched? Never mind. It's a good, it's a good tag. Let's workshop that a little bit.

Yeah. I was reading JVL, Jonathan Last. He was an editor at the Bullwark and our friend. One of my favorites. That's right. He wrote a really smart piece today about how what happens the Republican Party after. I mean, what's going to be so interesting. is that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are going to have these like incredible

reckonings. And actually Noah Shankman, the editor of The Daily Beast, who is also our dear friend, said yesterday in reliable sources that the anti-Trump campaign, the Biden campaign, actually includes people like Angela Davis, Nome Chomsky, and Bill Crystal. So how you thread that needle into an administration is going to be really interesting. Here's the reality. check that I wrote about in running against the devil. The reality of this country is that even in progressives in a place like Minnesota or Wisconsin or Michigan are not as woke as woke Twitter. Right. And woke Twitter is a, woke Twitter is where, you know, where, where there are people who mutter that Bernie is a dangerous accommodationist with the right, you know. But we're going to have it

on the other side too, right? Because we're going to have like Trump Jr. primaring Marco. Yes. Can we talk about that? Marco wants his seat back. Oh, he may run for Senate again. Yeah. But he's going to get primaried by Matt Gates. No, I know. Or Dan Bing Bongo. The other person who I heard was encouraged to run for office the other day by none other than Donald Trump Jr. was a Mr. Sebastian Gawker. Well, Donald Trump Jr. really has his finger on the pulse of the future of the Republican Party, so that makes sense.

Doug Jones is the junior senator from Alabama. Right now, he's a hair ahead in a tight Senate race. So we sat down to talk to him about where he is in it. So I want to tell you quickly that when you got elected, it was this like incredibly important moment in the life of my teenage son, woke teenage son. That's his handle. Because I said, you know, I know, but it's Alabama and don't get your hopes up. We've been through so much. And then he was home and he was like, oh, my God, mom, this guy called Doug Jones, who, you know, you have this incredible prosecutorial record.

And he was like, he just won in Alabama. So you have a big place in our family. Well, I appreciate that. It was a pretty amazing run. It was a pretty amazing night. It's been about a pretty amazing couple of years in the U.S. Senate dealing with all this. And we heard that a lot. I mean, this was never about Doug Jones.

It was always about Alabama and going forward and putting pass behind you and trying to show. And the word we heard so much was just hope a little bit more than I had bargained for when I first got in the race. But it's been incredibly gratifying. Talk to me about your opponent because it seems like Tommy Tuberville is actually weirdly worse than Roy Moore. I think that there is no question about that. And the reason is Moore was a known commodity. And there were people, even before those allegations were made against him, he was a known commodity, and people in Alabama were uncomfortable with him. He could always gather enough votes to get a certain level of votes within the Republican primary, but people were uncomfortable because of his stance on gay rights, on anything other than white people and abortion and all those issues.

And people were just very uncomfortable with him. He had embarrassed the state. But what we've got now is someone in many ways who is just extreme on all of those issues. But he has no record, he is except as a football coach. And so he seems to be more acceptable. And that makes it more dangerous. He's actually not policy-wise and substance-wise. He's not on Moore's level.

I mean, we can disagree with more all we want to. At least he was there and could articulate his positions. Tuberville can't articulate his position. because he doesn't know enough about it. This is a guy who doesn't even know what the Voting Rights Act is. So that makes him a much more dangerous opponent, but quite frankly, it makes him, I think, somebody that is dangerous for to be in the United States Senate.

There's nobody like that that I've seen. As much as I disagree with so many folks on the other side. I'm going to beg to disagree with you here and say Marshall Blackburn. It seems like she may be. You don't have to comment. You know, Bolly, you're putting me in a very uncomfortable place because I'm going to have to defend Marsha Blackford, one of my least servers, because there's this Tommy Tuberville quote that is like the quote that I feel should disqualify you from all public office, which is when he got caught in these Ponzi schemes. And he said, I'm not smart enough to understand all the numbers.

I feel like that's when we say, maybe you, the Senate is not for you, my guy. Yeah, yeah. And then looking at bank statements that he was on bank statements, just looked at pluses and minuses and really did not know what insufficient funds meant. But yet he's running a TV ad right now that says, unless we balance the budget, you know, everybody should get fired. Okay. So, I mean, just really a old line Republican talking points that are just us versus them and name calling. And that's the race he's running. And we're trying to run both a positive campaign about my record, but we've got to hit him on those issues. Talk to us a little bit about your record. You've only been in the Senate two years, but what you feel like you've been able to do. Well, first of all, as a freshman senator, that's a Democrat, in a party that does not control the Senate, sure as hell doesn't control Mitch McConnell, but also not in control of the White House, you know, we've been able to get bipartisan bills, 21 bipartisan bills that have been enacted into law signed by President Trump.

Now, that involves things from everywhere from farmers and agriculture to small businesses to the Cold Case Civil Rights Collection Act, which I think ultimately is going to be a really important. bill for southern communities on this. You've done a lot of really important civil rights war. Can you just talk a little bit about the girls? Sure. I mean, I was nine years old in 1963 when that bomb exploded at the 16th Street Baptist Church. And I was living in a, unlike Mike, I was living of a very protected world. I was living in a world that shielded me from those things. Those children that died, I was in a different, very different place. But as I grew up in a time of desegregation of our schools and things like that. And it really occurred to me and dawned on me at that time how important this was that we all try to figure out how to make sure that this all works together.

And so between that and college, and then I was in law school, I think I was a second year law student in 1977 when Bill Baxley prosecuted one guy for the church bombing in 1963. And I cut classes and I went and watched it. And I saw the importance of that case. I mean, literally sat in the balcony and to show you how just things move in mysterious ways. 24 years later, I'm the U.S. attorney, and I'm trying the next of those church bombers in the same courtroom where I watched as a kid. And it was just surreal to have come full circle and watching Bill and how much it meant to Alabama and the community when he got that conviction. And so we prosecuted two guys, a fellow named Tommy Blanton and a fellow named Bobby Frank Cherry, both of whom are deceased now, both of whom died in prison. because we were able to convict them and getting justice for those families and those four girls

and the survivor, Sarah Collins-Rudolph, the sister of one of the girls that died, and for the community, it was such a healing moment for Birmingham and for Alabama. I've told folks that for the longest time, and to some extent people still do, they look at Alabama and images of black and white and the fire hoses and the dogs, and we're just not that way. We're a diverse state of living color. And it's a, it really moved our state forward. And it really put me on a path to make sure, because I've fully understood after the fact how important that was to so many people. And it's still important with all we're seeing in social justice today, to continue that work, to break down the barriers that we've still not fully broken down over the generation.

When I was talking to Mike Espy about the South being, do you see that the South, the people are coming home to the South? Oh, yeah, Molly, for sure. I mean, and I got to tell you, I think, and again, this is not about Doug Jones. This is really about an election in 2017 that really, I think, opened a lot of people's eyes to what was going on in the South. And it gave hope to so many people, both in the South and outside the South, that we are that diversity. We're a growing area. We've got young folks that have grown up, and they didn't grow up with the same, a bag, for lack of a better word than our fathers and mothers and grandfathers and grandfathers did and issues of gay marriage and issues of social justice and integration, desegregation.

All of those things are not what folks are thinking about. They're looking at progress. They're looking at their jobs and their kids' education and how we can make this a better place for everyone. And so I do think that the South is moving and changing, and I think in 2017, it gave hope to so many people. And it's why you saw folks like Stacey Abrams doing as great as she did and Beto doing as great as he did and others where we took so many house seats because people said, okay, this South is different. This South can speak to the issues that are those kitchen table issues and it means something. So it, you know, it's not flipping overnight. I have to keep telling people,

we've got to play long ball here. Don't get discouraged. We're not going to win every race here. But the long ball is in our favor. So one of the things I notice as a northern city dweller is that a lot of people don't understand how a Southern Democrat keeps a seat and with the borders of how you both serve your constituents but also get reelected and stay true to the Democrat values that those states don't exactly embody. How do you balance that? I think you've got to be authentic about it. I mean, I think you've got to come at it straight. You can't make a decision based on what the polls are telling you. You know, somebody who I feel hot and cold about sometimes, Chris Christie, who said at the Republican convention.

That's very generous. Yeah, it's very generous. But remember, he made it, had a line at the Republican convention, I think in 2012, in which he said, you know, leaders don't follow polls. Leaders move polls. And part of the job, I think, is a public servant, is to also help educate people and to see things from a different point of view. That's what we've tried to do, to try to bring folks around to see things from a different point of view, that we can find common ground. It's not my way or the highway. Finding those common grounds on sometimes very difficult issues is the way that we can move

forward and progress as a state as a country. That often gets lost in such a hyper-partisan world that we're living in, but it's something that I've tried to stay true to here in Alabama. I think it's going to help us win in November. But you know what? At the end of the day, we are also building. We're helping build in Alabama. We're building across the country. It helps a heck of a lot more where we're winning. But building is incredibly important. And that authenticity about who you are and being able to not just talk to people, but listen to people and believe them when they have these heartfelt moments about why they're concerned about this, that or the other, that you may have a different opinion on. And that's, I think that we've really done.

a good job of that. I've got a great staff that's helped me navigate that and work on that and stay true to that in my time in the Senate. So Tommy Tuberville isn't even from Alabama? Nope. He grew up in Arkansas, he grew up in Arkansas, coached there for a while, coached at Ole Miss as a head coach, then came to Auburn, and he coached at Auburn for about eight or nine years before he quit. And literally people think that he got fired because Alabama beat the crap out of him in his last game, like 36 to nothing. But he literally, at that point, and this was 2008, at that point the SEC football was really on the rise. I mean, we had some great coaches. It was incredibly competitive. And he just quit. He just said, I'm just not in my

heart's not in it. And he went and talked to the president and told him that, but said he couldn't leave. And this is all, by the way, under oath in his deposition, you know, said, you know, I can't leave, I can't quit because I'll lose $5 million in my buyout clause. And so that president was faced with an issue of, do I want a coach whose heart's not in it, who is going to destroy my program, or do I pay him $5 million and go about him, go on his way? He opted for the latter. And two years later, Auburn won a national championship. So he left, he went to Texas, he went to Cincinnati. Then he's had a lake house that he sold a few years ago and literally moved to Alabama about 20 months ago now to run for the Senate. He did not even vote in Alabama

in 2018, 2016, but came here because some Republicans in Washington, D.C. said, you've got great. Name recognition. The president doesn't like Jeff Sessions, and we want you to come, which is an understatement and the rest. And so there he is. And he really has no idea about the Senate. He literally came to Alabama to run for the Senate, knowing that he wouldn't have to lift a finger to either raise money or to give any substance. And that's the race he's running. The other thing, not to just hit you on this, but I just, he is a birther or two? For some reason, as a former coach, he ended up on Hannity a good bit. I think it's part of... As one does. Yeah, I mean, he was on there several times, and there are any number of interviews he did, which he, he

He was not as out there like Donald Trump was, but he was raising the questions that why doesn't he, President Obama just do this? There's a lot of questions. There's got to be something he's hiding. And so he really latched on to that birth or movement back in the day. He hasn't said as much lately. But the things he said about President Obama are just stunning. But yeah, I mean, it's all of that just as far right. That's why we were talking earlier about him being. more dangerous in many ways than Roy Moore, because he is as far right, if not farther than more. He's just a lot more quiet about it, and he doesn't have the record where people really know about it. That's what we've been trying to get out. How worried are you about voter suppression in Alabama? Quite. We're always worried about voter suppression. Every election we worry about voter suppression in Alabama.

I had a call yesterday about some things going on in one of our counties. The voter suppression in Alabama is not, the registration process anymore like it used to be. It is literally taking absentee ballots and not counting them because they didn't dot the eye and cross the T's. It's closing polling places. It's purging voter rolls. So we've been doing a lot to try to get people back on the rolls to monitor polling places. But the thing we're doing, I think, that is a really big deal in Alabama now is early voting. It is not early voting like the rest of the world has early voting. We have, the ability to cast an absentee ballot in person early. That's great. Hell of a mouthful to say, but that's what it is. And we are seeing record numbers. I was down town just a few minutes before

I came on with you, and the line was already forming outside our courthouse to vote. And that's a, that's a good sign. We're going to probably have, ultimately, I would say, anywhere from 7 to 10% of the people that cast an early absentee vote. That's a good thing. Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean, The whole idea that Republicans just want people not to be able to vote. So it's just like you know you're not on the right side of things when that's how you want to win. They just do not like easy access to the vote. What is going to happen. I really believe this is that this early voting is so good and so popular.

And it's going relatively smoothly. It could be going a lot more smooth if we didn't have an onerous absentee ballot process. Remember, early voting in Alabama is still an absentee ballot. So when you go to the courthouse, you still have to fill out an application for an absentee ballot, get that ballot handed to you, then get it notarized, and it just takes time. With the technology today, if they would just say, okay, we're just going to let you come vote early and walk up there with your voter ID, you know, your photo ID, cast your ballot and go home, man, it would be smooth as silk.

And that's where I think Alabama may be headed. So do you have any recommendations for how Alabamaans should cast their vote and anything that you could tell them about making sure that their vote gets counted? Number one, if you have any question about it, the most secure way to vote right now, other than literally going to the polls on November the 3rd, would be to go to the county courth. We've got until October the 29th to go early. You may still have to stand in line of ways, but you're going to have to stand in line on November the 3rd. If there's good weather, go on out there. Get your voter ID and vote right now. I feel very confident that the votes that are being cast early are going to be counted.

I'm a little bit more concerned about mail-in votes because we do have such a difficult ballot. It's not just because of the post office and the concerns there. It's just that it's such a difficult process to get the application, to get two people to witness your signature and all those things. If it's not done exactly according to the specs, it may get set aside. So I would tell folks to get out there, vote early. That's the big thing. To vote early, get everything in line. Take the time.

You can do this, get to your county courthouse. And in many of the courthouses in Alabama, there is no line. I mean, it's safe. People are wearing masks. They're social distance. And it's safe and it's easy to get in and out. It's only the bigger counties where we've seen the backlogs a little bit. So I get out there.

Make sure you cast that vote for Doug Jones, by the way, just say it. Before we get into things, we have a fun little treat. There are so many insane things happening in the world right now, and two episodes a week just aren't enough to cover it all. So, the new abnormal is going to release a limited run series of bonus interviews over the next few weeks for Beast Inside members only. We'll release a new one each Sunday. But listen carefully. Only Beast Inside members will have access to these.

So head over to the new abnormal. Dot the Daily Beast.com to become a Beast inside member now. That's New Abnormal. dot the Daily Beast.com. Carolyn Rose Giuliani is a director, writer, and actor, as well as being the daughter of former New York City mayor, an unpaid lawyer of President Trump. So my question is, and I think it's really brave and awesome,

but what got you to the point where you felt like you had to say something? I'm sure that was not an easy decision. Yeah, it's been like a long road. It's one of those things where I've always sort of been open about it, and I'm at a party or wherever I, am. I've never hidden my beliefs from anybody, but I've never sort of like actively publicized them. If I was asked about it, like in 2016, I supported Hillary because I got called at my office and I just like answered her question and that's how that happened. But in this case, it just

felt like I felt like I had an obligation just because it's just so bad. We're in such a crisis and I think I would really regret not saying something if God forbid Biden loses. Yeah. No. You know, and even, even if not, I just, I want to be on record as being on the right side of history. And part of it is, like, I also felt like people feel so alone right now. I've had such a great reaction from so many people just saying, like, thank you for writing this. Like, you articulated things I've been feeling. And it just made me feel a little less alone. And like, that is like, honestly enough for me too. I mean, I think that's a really good reason to come forward. I was also curious. You know, I have this mother who is a famous writer. So I mean, it's different kind of fame. It's not that famous. But I've often been

interviewed about her. So I know how icky it is. So I hesitate for me anytime anyone asked me about my mother, it feels like very soul-crushing. But you did have this. And I had an interesting and weird New York City childhood too, but yours feels like so much more public and so much. much more historic. And I'm curious to know what do you think? Like, how did that shape you? Yeah, I mean, I think growing up in the city, and by the way, I don't feel bad about asking about my dad. It's the whole reason I have a platform at all. So don't worry at the moment, you know. But yeah, growing up in the city, I think you become independent, like way quicker. Forming my own opinions. I don't know. I don't know if it's specific to the city, but I know that like I had this feeling of

independence just because of like public transportation alone. But it was kind of complicated. because I had bodyguards until I was 12. And then all of a sudden I didn't. And so, yeah, it was kind of a weird. And I didn't love, like, I always kind of like tried to hide or I would never tell people my last name if I could avoid it just because, yeah, it just became the focus. And I didn't, I wanted people to get to know me. Like my best friends in high school were all gay men, a wonderful community of gay men.

And I saw them struggle because they went to a Jesuit school. and like each one of them had, you know, their own struggle with coming out, even in a city as liberal as New York. And so that's like another reason I'm so like connected to the LGBTQ community. I am queer myself too, but like I didn't even know that at the time. And I've always felt like a deep desire to protect and support them. That's really great. When did you realize that your father was that things were not totally kosher there? I mean, we've always differed politically like just since I can remember.

member pretty much. But when he became Trump's lawyer, I think that that was like a pretty clear boundary crossing thing for me. And I did, you know, I expressed my opposition to that privately. Was he just like, no? Or was he, I have family members who would pretend to hear you and then be like, okay, you know what I mean? Like, or did he just, was he just like, couldn't hear it? Yeah, I mean, it was one of those conversations where, I mean, it actually was quite a long conversation because it was one of the first times I, like, unloaded all of my feelings about Donald Trump. And it was kind of, you know, it was, I sort of described in the article that, like, sometimes we'll have moments of connection and understanding. And I have particular tactics to try to make those moments happen. Like, sometimes I'll just really shocking things.

And then, like, that helped get someone's attention. I feel like, yeah, we had, like, we had moments of connection. And, you know, then he made the choice he was going to make. I sort of expressed my opinions on the matter. which were to oppose it very, very strongly. And, you know, he made his choice and did what he's going to do. By the way, wasn't super excited about the idea of him running for president, but it's super hard way back when. And we already differed politically then. But it's sort of hard for me to separate my personal feelings about that from my political ones

because I know that was motivated by both. But I was certainly like very liberal by then too. Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. I can't even, I mean, it must have been so weird. And then your brother is like the opposite of you. Yeah, that one's a little bit confusing for me because we grew up in the same place. Aren't you close in age too?

He's three years older than me. Yeah, and I love him. We've always been very different people. But it's hard. It's definitely hard. I think there are a lot of American families who have this, you know, not to this same dramatic way that you guys. that you guys do, but it has to be, you know, I think it's definitely strange. Like, do you, do you feel like he believes, he believes this stuff or not as much? You know, I don't really know.

I try to, I try to spend my energy on things that are productive. And I feel like that people do ask me a lot, that question a lot. And I try not to spend my energy on that. What I do think, though, is that the bubble situation of like the way people get their news is, is super problematic. And I do think that, like, that that reinforces people believing things that are not true. So. And then it allows them to, like, lie to themselves more easily, I think, you know. Did he, what, did your father have a Fox News habit? Yeah, yeah, he watches Fox News.

It's so, it's so interesting this. It's like. Yeah, so it goes on it. Yes, I know. I mean, I'm not, I'm not sure. I think he probably watches the other channels as well to be informed. But I write a lot about my mom and stuff. And I feel, I never, I feel like when you're a public figure, you make that decision.

And if you're the child of a public figure, that decision is made for you. And so you're allowed to kind of do what you want because they've sort of put you in that position anyway. Do you feel like that or do you torture yourself? It's been like a long road of like figuring out how I want to manage it. I think the way I like to think about it is like my experiences of like who my parents are, greatly shaped who I am. So it's like a part of me. You know, I used to have a lot of shame and like would hide it or, you know, the way I reveal who my dad is to people has changed over the

years. Like, you know, I used to like just not say it ever like until they knew me for a long time. And it was very, very like disarming for people. And then there was a period of my life where I was just in a more rebellious phase and I would just tell people at the time that was funniest to me. Like, there's always a moment where like it's a funny thing to say and a shocking thing to say. So I did that for a while. And now I kind of live my life by just like accepting that it's a part of me.

I've sort of like I have enough self-esteem and know who I am enough that I don't have that like question of do people like me just for this? and I trust my intuition with with like sussing that out now. So basically if I'm like going to tell a story that involves my childhood and that piece of information is critical, then I share it. And if it's not, you know, I just wait until that comes up. But yeah, I mean, I think it's it's also complicated to separate when people are interested in it, like why people are interested in it because sometimes they're interested in it because of like how it shaped me.

Right. And sometimes it's for like more malicious reasons. So it's it's definitely been an interesting. part of my life. You must experience firsthand how polarized America is, right? Because aren't there people who like just like come over to you and are like your dad is amazing? For sure. And that's always been the case. I mean, that must be just a strange, like strange. Yeah, it's complicated. I mean, especially now because it's just like I'm like, I'm a, I'm a Democrat. Do you have any like weird stuff from your childhood

of like the political world of New York that you found disillusioning. I do remember there was this one time when I think I was must have been like four and they had like parties at the in the main area of Gracie Mansion where we lived, you know like we lived on the second floor which was

private and the ground floor was for those like functions and there was like I was like running through and like trying to go upstairs and some reporter like took me aside and was like trying to ask me questions and I remember knowing at like age four I like wasn't supposed to talk to reporters and I was like I have to go so I have like a very distinct memory of of that what was living in Gracie mansion like I mean it was it was such

it was a it was a privilege for sure like I was like one of the only children to grow up in New York and also have a backyard like which is kind of and so we had you know we had a yellow lab who had like a whole backyard to play in. And so that was like definitely a privilege. You know, it was unusual to have like bodyguards or like just like people in your house all the time. Like we were out by the time I was 12. So I was pretty grateful that that like my teenage years I got to have like a slightly more normalized situation. Because I was kind of at that age like when the when we got finished having bodyguards who by the way like were some of the most wonderful people and like became like family many of them. I was like at the age where I was like starting to like, you know, I think I may have like ditched

my bodyguard one time when I was 12. Like so I can't even imagine like how much angst there would have been if I had them when I was older. No, I think that's probably true. So my fuck that guy today is Maria Bardooma, the money, honey. Because I'm old enough to remember when she was actually. actually like a real news person and not and not Lou Dobbs in a dress. Rick Wilson.

But what if, but what if you, she was on stage with, with Lou Dobbs while Lou Dobbs was wearing a dress? What kind of sorcery is this, Rick Wilson? That's the worst drag. Teed up Russia Ron Johnson and said, Russia Ron Johnson, actually she didn't call him Russia, but she should have. They're, the FBI is investigating child pornography and Hunter Biden had a laptop. Connect the dots. The dots do not need to be connected because she is pushing a sort of false narrative that has also appeared that InfoWars is trying to push. And if InfoWars is on it, then you're in a lot of trouble.

Truth. My fuck that guy today is Mr. Mark Burnett. Mark Burnett is the proximate reason why Donald Trump is in office today because he was on a reality show Mark Burnett produced for 14 years. And the apprentice was what Americans believed Donald Trump to actually be. They thought he was a good manager. They thought he was a great negotiator. And they thought he was one of the wealthiest, most incorruptible people because of Mark Burnett's TV show. I would just like to say to Mr. Burnett, go fuck yourself. Fuck that guy. Because he has held on to a bunch of incriminating tapes this entire time.

And now we have learned that Mark Burnett is preparing a television show for Donald Trump after he loses the presidency. Now, I don't know what fucking interdimensional gateway to a Lovecraftian hellscape the show will be. Yeah. But I promise you, if Donald Trump has the chance to be on our televisions to curse us every single fucking week, he will never stop. They will be bringing out robo Donald Trump when his when his wee shrivel brain is in a jar mounted to an android to continue to vex us if Mark Burnett has his way. Jesus Christ, he really deserves it. That was a good one. On that note, we'll wrap up this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast.

In future episodes, we'll be talking with smart folks from The Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics, and science who will help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. We're just getting started and don't want you to miss an episode. If you'd like to follow us on Twitter, I'm Molly Jongfest, and he's the Rick Wilson. Thanks so much for listening. see you again on the next episode.

Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.