The Daily Beast Podcast - Eric Swalwell Says Kevin McCarthy’s MAGA Team Is a Bunch of Creeps

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

On this week’s episode of The New Abnormal, California Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell talks to us about Colorado congresswoman Lauren Boebert’s latest shocking rant and how he contends with some of the louder members of the Republican Party on the House Judiciary Committee. Plus! The Bulwark’s Jonathan V. Last tells us about the contrast in Democratic and Republican responses to Sen. Bob Menendez’s recent indictment for corruption. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Kedden, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. Our goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. What an excellent show we have today.

Congressman Eric Swalwell talks to us about the potential government shutdown and how he contends with some of the louder members of the Republican Party on the House Judiciary Committee. Then we'll talk to the bulwarks Jonathan V. last. We'll tell us about the contrast in Democratic and Republican responses to Senator Robert Menendez's recent indictment for corruption. But first, let's have some fun. The second debate, Republican debate circus fiasco, took place at the Ronald Reagan Library, where you had all of these fools, just take the stage and this is what I have to say about the debate. Shit show doesn't begin to encompass what it is we're being forced to ingest. Listening to Nikki Haley, admonish Vivek Ramoswamy, listening to Chris Christie, try and puff out

his chest and go direct to camera to Donald Trump. You know, Mike Pence making an awkward joke about sleeping with a teacher that is his wife. Like, I just don't know what these people are running for. But surely they don't think that they can be the president of the United States. And so when Donald Trump slams them and says, do you all see any people that could be my VP in the bunch? And folks laugh and say no. Like, that's basically the sentiment of not just Republicans that are looking at this primary,

but the rest of us that are looking and saying, wow, there really is no runner up to Donald Trump. Ron DeSantis is like failure to launch was the closest that we had. And as these debates go on, I'm just like, I would rather literally give toddlers that are just learning how to read the Constitution and have to sit there and watch them stumble through it than watch this bullshit. Hi, Daniel. Hi, Andy. I am bitter. because I watched virtually all of the debate. Mm-mm.

People should send us gifts. Do you know what I'm saying? Like those that are listening, we're open to gifts. Go ahead. The things I do for you people. I'm not comfortable being called a hero, but I understand it. I fully, I understand. Yes.

Look, I hate debates to begin with. I hate presidential debates. I think they are the stupidest thing in the world. This was so bad. I think this was even amazingly worse than the first one this year. The only thing I took from this debate is that the Republicans are all on board with two things, going to war with Mexico and eliminating trans people. To me, that is the Republican Party platform for 2024.

They could not wait to try to outdo each other in terms of whether it's sending special forces to Mexico, whether it's whatever it is, it's an act of war. And they also could not wait when asked a question that was specifically about kids, children, teenagers, whatever, and transgender stuff, they could not wait to pivot to just saying that they wanted to get rid of anything that allows people to be who they are. And it was so foul and it was so gross. And I didn't. but I wanted to just do that movie scene afterwards where you're just in the shower with the

beer and just letting the water pour over you while you hold the beer in your hand. God, that's a depressing fucking sight. I know, but that's how I felt. It was just like I cannot believe I just sat through that. It was gross. And then on top of that, like you said, you had all these people, some of the worst jokes I've ever heard. Oh, dear God. Which, again, this is why I hate debates, because jokes.

are somehow important in debates as if that shows you who will be a good president. But this is how we scored debates. And I mean, even like Dana Perino, who was one of the moderators afterwards, he said, I don't think any of them did very well. None of them had a memorable line. And it's like, really? And look, she's not wrong. But again, this is why I hate debates because this is how we view the process for electing

a president is, oh, who had a good line in the debate, which is just fucking stupid. But these lines were particularly bad. And I mean, there was Chris Christie's Donald Duck one, which it could have worked because he could it have. Are we in elementary school? Because he was talking about him ducking the debates. No, I, oh, I got it. I know you got it. No, I know you got it.

I'm just saying there's something there that maybe could have worked. Like, there's the framework of a joke there. It just not the way he did it. But the worst was Mike Pence who would deliver these lines and then pause for applause that wasn't there. Please clap. It was so painful to watch because you saw him pause and you know these were the lines that were scripted ahead of time that he was told this is where you're going to get your applause. And then there was no applause. And it was just, oh, it was so painful to watch, Danielle.

Here's the thing. And I know, again, folks get caught up in the one-liners and they get caught up in, you know, who has charisma, who is showing wit and all of these things. essentially, it's a fucking beauty pageant, right? Like that's what these debates are and that's why I don't, until we're getting head to head with the actual two candidates, I will say honestly, what is most helpful is putting these people with actual voters and like letting the voters ask them questions and not just of their party, but like filling an audience with actual voters, you know, Democrats, Republicans, independence and, you know, those that maybe are not even registered and think

about registering to vote and getting them to answer real questions. But this whole like pageantry that they do is stupid. But I think aside from that, what is most important that of course does not get drilled into, which you raised, Andy, is the fact that this Republican primary competition is about who can be the most racist and who can be the most transphobic. And that is so fucking dangerous. to say that there is anyone that was on that stage that is a possible solution to Donald Trump when they in fact embrace the same type of racism, transphobia, xenophobia, Islamophobia,

I mean go down the list is laughable, right? And it's to say that, oh, all of our problems will be solved if Donald Trump isn't on the top of the ticket. No, it won't because that ship has sailed. The poison has already spread and has taken hold over 30% of this country. And the fact that you have the Vec Ramoswamy that gets up there and degrades people that are murdered at a higher rate than any other group in this country is absolutely fucking incredibly dangerous and obscene. because if he had said, plug in any other group. I know. If he was talking about Jewish people.

If he was talking about black people. If he was talking about Hispanic people. If he was talking about women. If he was talking about Muslims, it would have been headline fucking news they would have cut his mic. But it's totally okay to degrade and talk about trans people in the way that they do. And everybody just shrugs about it. Like, oh, well, that's their opinion.

It is not. It's discrimination and bigotry. And we shouldn't accept it as anything less. Yes, I think Ramoswami was the worst. But watching them all sort of fall over each other, trying to rush to be the worst, basically, when it came to both Mexico and trans people. And it was just, I'm sitting here thinking, really?

Like, the impression I got from them is that they think 90% of what they consider to be problems in America would be solved if we bomb the shit out of Mexico. and eliminated trans people. You're absolutely right that it's dangerous as hell. It's also unbelievably fucking stupid. And I'm listening to them speak. And I'm thinking, you want to be the president? You are, you are dumb.

Like, I don't care where you went to school. And I don't care what your IQ is. You're dumb. And I'm so sick of it. And I'm so sick of having to listen to these people. I don't know why the fact that every Republican candidate has made it clear in both debates now that they want to go to war with Mexico and this somehow is not a big deal. Yeah.

I don't understand that. They're talking about bombing a sovereign nation. If it's not bombing, it's sending in special forces, whatever it is. Like I said before, those are acts of war against not only a sovereign nation, an ally, one of our biggest allies. And nobody makes a big deal out of this. I don't get it, Danielle. Just real quick is the fact that they want to bomb Mexico, right?

They want to send in special forces. A majority of the people that are coming through undocumented are coming from other countries and going through Mexico. So like, again, it's this idea, let's just blow everybody up without even having a real strategic or targeted understanding of what's happening. Yeah, because they're dumb. Because they're fucking dumb. So we say all this to say, there is no one in a hell's chance of Donald Trump right now or frankly, if the man is going to be behind bars, I still don't think there's going to be anyone that comes up. I think that these rabid Republicans would rather a president running the country from a federal

prison than choosing the vet from Oswamy or Pence. That being said, good God did Donald Trump, the Trump organization, his like spawn get deflated this week out of New York? So Donald Trump's entire image, his entire brand is tied up in Art of the Deal, the apprentice, I'm the richest guy, I know how to run businesses, everything I touch, much like my toilets are gold. And as it turns out, the civil case that Attorney General Letitia James brought in New York, New York AG, Tish James brought a $250 million case against Donald Trump, his sons, a couple of other people, the Trump organization for fraudulently inflating their worth in order to get loans, make deals, what have you. in some cases, according to court records, having inflated the wealth to a tune of over $3 billion. So now a judge, whose name I can't ever pronounce, Engaron, I think is the judge's name, has now stated that Donald Trump did in fact invent his entire portfolio and is a fraud and has

sanctioned the organizations and his businesses and pulled their LLC licenses. While we know that you in this court of law have the right to appeal and that's what Donald Trump and his lawyers will do, understand that this judge has also fined five of Donald Trump's attorneys with $7,500 fines for frivolous bullshit that they brought before the court. This is going to go to trial, but it's not a trial by juries. it's a trial in front of this judge who has already declared that they are a bunch of frauds. And I think that this, you know, as some has said, you know, some business analysts have said, is like the death sentence when it comes to doing business, particularly where all of his business and wealth is tied up in New York.

He has, obviously, these other resorts and what have you around the country and around the world. But New York, it's his crown jewel. And it was just tarned. Yeah, it's a pretty astounding ruling. And you're right, obviously, they're, you know, they're already appealing and who knows how this will end up. But this ruling in and of itself is absolutely astounding. And the fact that the judge canceled the Trump family businesses certificates in New York, you almost never hear of that happening. This is truly unreal.

Anyone with half a brain has known for years, if not decades, particularly people in New York, that Trump is a fraud and that he's a huckster and that he's been inflating his wealth, again, for decades. But to hear it in a court of law and to hear a judge take this almost unheard of step is mind-blowing. In the New York Times, Stephen Cullen, who's a professor at New York Law School, he said, think of it as the court concluding that this corporate citizen, that's the Trump organization, has consistently behaved in a manner that forfeiture of the privilege of operating in New York is warranted. And that's what he's saying. That's what this judge is saying, you can no longer operate businesses in the state of New York. And remember, this is Trump Tower.

This is so many things that have Trump's name on it in this city that it's disgusting. And to have a judge actually say that, I don't want to fall into the trap of getting really excited about this, because as we know, you know, Trump has for his whole life, weaseled his way out of situations like this. So who knows, but it's such a huge deal. And I don't want to say it's a bigger deal. It's obviously not a bigger deal for the country than Jack Smith's cases and Fannie Willis's case in Georgia. It may actually be a bigger deal for Trump.

Yep. Himself. I don't think anyone thinks he's going to end up in jail from the Georgia or the federal cases. However, he's hurt, it will be more sort of existentially. But this is like a direct blow to who he is. I think that it's a direct blow to his image. I think that what we know about Donald Trump is that his need, his desire to be liked,

to be in those socialite elite circles, has been all that he's ever wanted. He's been able to get to this place where he was the former president of the United States all on his brand, all on being this super wealthy billionaire, I know how to get shit done guy. And so to turn around, I don't even think that it's going to be the Trump happy people that he doesn't care about that show up at these rallies and want him to sign their breasts and like all of this type of stuff. It's not those people that he cares about what thinks about him.

It's the donor class. It's the other Uber wealthy people that are now going to look at him and be like, you know what? You are a fucking fraud. Yeah. And we don't actually want to do business with you. we're not going to do business with you because you're no longer a sure thing or a good bet. Donald Trump has made a lot of his money by licensing out his name, right?

Because his name was associated with wealth and success. This hits at the very core of that. And Tish James knew that, which is why she went after it and knew that he's been a schemer and a grifter and a liar for decades in New York. And so the funny thing is, is that let's play the. if game for just a second. If she gets the 200, if New York gets the 250 million, I think that that is a significant part of Donald Trump's wealth. Yeah. I do not think that Donald Trump is a billionaire. And so it's not as if like, oh, you're hit with $250 million and you're Elon Musk. I think you're

hit with $250 million and that's like half the money you got. But he'll always have his good friends the Saudis. I mean, you know, hanging on for dear life, but let's see. The Saudi said, you know, MBS, murdering ass MBS said, I'll hang with Jared if Donald Trump becomes president again. If Donald Trump is not president and he no longer has the licensing, you know, acumen, I think that that money goes by-bye as well. So right now, I don't even know how to do a good pivot to this because I'm just like, I'm annoyed. Cassidy Hutchinson, former White House aide, who during the January 6th committee hearings dropped the biggest bombs. Once she got rid of her Trump appointed lawyers and got her own lawyers,

she decided to tell the truth about what led up to the day of the insurrection, post the insurrection, and what have you. And we learned a lot of jaw-dropping things. Donald Trump knew that people had weapons. Donald Trump tried to physically accost a secret service member in order to go to the Capitol, throwing things at the wall. We learned, you know, burning that apparently Mark Meadows had a nice little bonfire on a regular basis that was happening in his chief of staff's office.

She's on a book tour. As all of these motherfuckers go on one once they leave the Trump administration or they have smelling salts that wake them up from the cultish coma that they have been in. And she's being hailed on cable news as a hero, having the courage, being brave, all of these things. And I'm certain that her book is going to hit the New York Times bestseller list, that it's going to sell out and do all of these things. I, for one, am over it. Just because you do one good thing does not all of a sudden turn Cassidy Hutchinson into everyone's hero. She believes every single interview they are asking her, well, would you support Joe Biden for president if in fact

it's between Biden and Trump? She doesn't answer. She calls herself a Mitt Romney Republican. Oh, so you mean a quitter? Because that's what the fuck he is. So you believe in all of the policies that Donald Trump put out, locking children in cages, transphobia, kicking people out of this country, all of these things. So pointedly, you had one good moment. And it was really about saving your own fucking ass, not really about saving the country. And so I take issue with the fact that everyone is now holding her up as some patron saint of fucking democracy when she's not. Okay, but Danielle, can we agree that I could change her? Folks, I am very excited to welcome to the new abnormal Congressman Eric Swalwell out of California's 14th Congressional District and a member of one of the most fiery committees that received the most clips.

the House Judiciary Committee. Congressman, I want to start first with the impending government shutdown and get your thoughts on where you think that this is headed, whether Speaker Kevin McCarthy has the ability to wrangle his really raucous Republican caucus and what the sentiments are of Democrats right now. Democrats want to work for working people. We showed that when even in the minority, we delivered the majority of votes to pay America's bills and to lift the debt ceiling. We stand ready to work and to keep government open so that our troops get paid, our cops get paid, our border is secure, which is all in jeopardy if the government shut down. But what you see right now is that Republicans are fighting Republicans. This is not

Republicans and Democrats disagreeing because in the Senate, Republicans and Democrats have agreed with nearly 80 senators agreeing on what the government funding should look like. In the House, the majority of Republicans agree with what Democrats would do to fund the government. It's these mega extremists who Kevin McCarthy is siding with who are failing the country. And so they should really be branded as the failures. They have failed to govern. And by failing to govern, they have failed to fund. And by failing to fund, they have failed to protect us. And so that's what's at risk. And so, yes, they will shut down the government, put millions of paychecks at risk starting a Sunday morning. At this stage, it has been when Republicans are in control of the

House, the government shuts down. I mean, that has been the pattern that we have seen. Republicans get in control, for whatever reason the American people believe they have a better economic understanding or footing, and they don't. So what message is it that Democrats need to send during this time so that the sole responsibility of this shutdown is placed at the feet of the Republican Party and is not put at Biden or at Democrats' doorstep? It's a great question, Danielle, because my fear is that, well, your listeners, there's probably four minutes a day where they don't think about politics. For many Americans, it's like four minutes, maybe a week that they think about politics.

And if, you know, in irresponsible media, just cast this as, well, Democrats want this and Republicans want that and they can't agree, then it's a pox on both houses. And that's why, you know, I think we really need to lean in and the branding of this and brand them, as I said, as the failures. They can't govern. They can't fund. They can't protect. And then make sure people know what they cannot protect. That it's the troops paychecks. It's the paychecks for our air traffic controllers for the border who will not get paid. I mean, just imagine asking these service members, you know, to serve abroad as so many of them do, or to walk the border and patrol it. Or to keep our planes from crashing in a stressful environment.

And for them to know that they're not going to get paid, that that's the worst thing for national security. So they are failing those individuals. So again, we cannot be nice. We also should be careful not to, by some sort of signals of virtue, make people believe that this is our shutdown too. Like, no, no, they own the shutdown. This is their shutdown.

Like, we want government open. They want it closed. Like, we shouldn't do anything in solidarity, with Republicans to make the average person think that, you know, this is just a failure of Congress. Now this is a failure of MAGAism. Recently, you made headlines, Bravo for the Jordan clock that you put up at your judiciary hearing where Merrick Garland was present. And in that exchange, your chairman, Chairman Jim Jordan of the Judiciary Committee, said that

Merrick Garland should be held in contempt. And these people should be held in contempt. And what you laid out with that clock is the fact that Jim Jordan himself should have been held in contempt, that he does not believe in the rule of law. What do you think needs to be done to continue to do what you did, which was showcase the hypocrisy inside of this Republican Party, so that people understand that basically their theory is do what I say, but not what I do? That's exactly right. And the way I approach this is always be on offense, right?

Play on their side of the field because in a void, they can define where we are as a country and they're willing to lie about it. And again, it's just so crazy that they would accuse Merrick Garland of lawlessness when they looked the other way during the entire Trump administration for what he did to benefit himself with his hotels, how his kids benefited with patents from China and Jared Kushner getting loans. from the Saudis and the standing with Putin and wanting to do a deal at Trump Tower while he was a candidate. They weren't interested in any of that. And now they want to just beat up Merrick Garland,

who, by the way, just a couple days after this, indicted one of those senior senators in the Senate, a Democrat. I thought, well, let's go on offense here. And let's talk about the guy who has no credibility, Jim Jordan, when it comes to lawlessness and contempt to Congress, because he is now over 500 days into violating his own congressional subpoena. And so happy 500 days to anyone who's celebrating. But the approach I take is I call it a 3D approach. So if on offense, first and foremost, you have to discredit them. So that was a piece of just demonstratively discrediting them.

You have to defend. So don't defend against everything. They'll say some crazy shit. We don't have to like defend against everything because then again, sometimes, you know, the voters and the constituents can't tell the difference. But defend against anything substantive. and then deliver and always pivot to what would we do if we were in the majority, if we had the keys to government, if we had the gavels.

Well, we wouldn't be talking about the former president's legal issues. We'd be talking about keeping kids safe in classrooms. We'd be talking about, you know, how we keep fentanyl off our streets. You know, we'd be talking about making sure that we have voting rights in every corner of America if we had the attorney general in front of us. So discredit, defend, deliver. And I think that's an effective way to keep. them on their heels rather than letting them define the stakes. When we talk about defend and deliver,

which I think is incredibly important, and I do believe that Democrats have been doing that for the last few years under the Biden administration and even with the minority position inside of the House, is it the fact that this Republican Party is a clown show? We watched it during the second debate for those who believe that they can become president of the United States or at least running for vice president or a cabinet position. Just recently, we saw video of Representative Lauren Bobert with absolutely no class, no decorum, and deciding this week to take to the House floor to spew the most transphobic message that I think I have ever seen. I was shocked, Congressman, that she was allowed to even continue with that speech. So talk to me about, first of all,

what you thought about Representative Bobert's comments about the highest ranking Pentagon official who is trans about her rhetoric, but that it was allowed to be voiced and entered into the record. These trans attacks are being normalized that you could stand on the house floor and go after a public servant and put that person's picture on a poster board and suggest that, you know, their pay should be reduced just because of, of how they identify. I mean, it's just, it's cruel. It's saying that we are not equal unless that individual identifies the way that Lauren Beauret wants them to identify. It's just wrong. And that's where they become, you know, a very cruel party. And yeah, it was awful to watch. And I talked on the Florida last night with colleagues who were just so uncomfortable with the direction that, you know,

McCarthy's MAGA Congress is going in its cruelty. So to the community, we have to every day make sure they know that we are with them. Something I've been doing on the trans attacks is, again, speaking of being on offense, I'm not convinced that this is a debate that Republicans are interested in debating on its merits. They are pandering to grievances and they're just outright lying, as I said, they're being cruel. And what they would want you to believe is that every little girl in America would be the next Olympic gold medal swimmer unless a trans did took their spot. And so they, That's what they want you to believe. So what we did last month is went to some of the creatives that I've worked with in the acting

and writing realm. And I told them, I said, what Republicans want to do to trans kids is not only cruel, but it's creepy. And how do we create what I call a hot stove around this issue? And so we produced an ad where you have a older male getting out of a car in front of a high school. And he walks into the school. He's walking through the locker room at the school.

And we splash on the screen for the ad all of the headlines of these on-demand gender checks that Republicans want to put in place, you know, to ban trans kids from sports, which would require an on-demand gender check. And we've even voted on that in the House. And the ad ends with the individual about to push his way into a girl's locker room. And you hear the little girls laughing on the other side. And I did that because that is how we have to attack this issue. is to call them out as creeps.

That, like, it is a parent of a little girl. It is creepy to me that you would want to inspect their gender. Like, that's just creepy to me. And there's no other place this goes with the legislation that you're supporting than doing a gender check. And so that's where I say, like, we're probably wasting our time if we want to debate the merits of this, that this is never happening. This isn't a real issue.

That these are individual case by case and a very small percentage of communities. Like, they don't want to have that debate. So just go, as I say, go. right at them and say, you're a creep unless you can prove to me that that's not what you want to do. And I think what ends up happening is they're like, okay, like, I don't want to pay the creep cost for wanting to do that. And that's where I think on our messaging, we shouldn't always try and, you know, debate them on the merits. We should take it to its logical conclusion and say, is this what you want to do? Because that's where you want to take us.

You know, last question for you, and I appreciate your time so much. And I know that you obviously are not in the Senate, but- Don't demote me. No. Senator Menendez and his indictment have taken over the headlines and taken a lot of oxygen out of the room. Democrats have finally come out in a larger group calling for his resignation. And I wanted to get your thoughts on one, whether or not he should resign. Two, how Democrats use this moment to be able to show that they are willing to hold one of their own to account to the same level of account. that we should hold all politicians, all elected officials, regardless of their party. So he should resign, yes. I said that also earlier this week on Jen Saki's show on Sunday.

But here's where we can't, you know, just be Democrats and just beat up the Democrat calling on his resignation. Again, he should resign. Hard stop. We should point out to the public that George Santos should also be called to resign, which Kevin McCarthy, again, Kevin McCarthy has called for Senator Menendez to resign, but won't call for George Santos to resign. So, that's your standard. Like, we should make it clear that they are willing to look the other way for their own and they just want to go after a Democrat. But most importantly, this shows that the prosecutions of the former president, Donald Trump, current president's son, Hunter Biden, and Senator Menendez all reflect an independent attorney general who is not treating anybody more favorably or

less favorably because of who they are. And that's what we should want in a department of justice. So again, we can't just say he should resign, he should resign. We need to tell the whole story here. And I hope my colleagues who are asked about this make that clear. I really appreciate everything that you do on a regular basis to hold Republicans' feet to the fire. And I send you all the strength and energy to keep doing what you're doing and hope that your colleagues will copycat your ferocious ability to command media in the way that you do to get the message out. So we appreciate you and hope that you'll come back again. Oh, thank you, Danielle. Of course.

As of Wednesday, 27 Democratic senators have called for the resignation of their colleague Robert Menendez after he was indicted on federal corruption charges. And Bullwark editor Jonathan V. Last says this speaks volumes on where the two political parties are right now. He joins us to

discuss. Thanks for being here, Jonathan. Andy, it is always a pleasure. Thank you for saying that even if you don't mean it. I do be it. Oh, come on. You I mean it. I'm a huge Andy fan. I've been a huge. I've heard otherwise. We can talk about that off air.

Mm, off, okay. So you've written a couple of pieces. We figured out that it is not 43. It is just three pieces about Menendez, basically laying out that while, yes, corruption definitely exists on both sides. The response of Democrats to Menendez contrasted to Republicans' responses to Trump, Ken Paxton, etc., is why you can't both sides this issue. Jonathan, show your work. Yeah, look, corruption is a human condition.

It's not like, you know, one party has all the corrupt people. The other party has, you know, nothing but people who are pure of heart. You get bad Republicans and bad Democrats. And like everything else in life, whether you're talking about the police or the Catholic Church, what matters is the institutional response to corruption. That is much more important. The Democrats, who, you know, did not cover themselves in glory with this stuff during the Clinton years, have gotten to the point where they look at something like this and they say,

no, no, this dude got to go. That's bad. And this isn't just Menendez. We saw this happen this past spring out in Oregon with their Secretary of State, Shemia Fagan, who had a scandal. And, you know, within like three days, the governor and the entire party apparatus was like, you got to go. This woman was supposed to be the next big thing out there. She was going to be the next governor of Oregon. My thesis on this, and I'm not convinced that this is necessarily true, but that is that the experience of Trump radicalized both sides. And it made the Republicans decide that they have to dig in on this stuff and it made Democrats, it scared them straight and convince them that they've got to really, really be better about rule of law stuff and better about trying to root out corruption on their own side.

But Jonathan, what about Hunter Biden? And I want to point out that I wrote this when I was coming up with questions. I wrote, what about Hunter Biden in alternating lowercase, uppercase, which is an online style that you do when you're being ridiculous. Yeah. I've always wondered how is that supposed to be auditorily conveyed if you're trying to what about Hunter Biden? Exactly.

Also, it's a pain in the ass to type. It sure is because you got to like, how am I getting it right? Which capitalized should it be? Anyway, so this is a perfect case. What about Hunter Biden? And the Democratic response on Hunter Biden, I mean, as a policy matter, the Biden administration's response to the Hunter Biden stuff has been absolute textbook. They kept the guy who's investigating it in the DOJ on when they took power.

instead of replacing him. They've been totally hands off on everything. They've done everything that you would as a good government type want them to do. And I don't know. My, he's not my buddy. I like Jake Tapper a lot. Jake Tapper was on one of the bulwark shows and said, you know, he was trying to make a both sides point. And he said, you know, there are Democrats who say that Hunter Biden is just a genius businessman. I'm thought to myself, no. I don't think that's true. I think the, the Democratic response to Hunter Biden goes, there are hard asses on the one side who are like, throw the book at him, right? You know, put him in a cell with a guy named Lizard. And on the other side, too, well, he's really troubled and this guy's an addict and it's, you know, it's very, very sad. And that's the, that's like 99% of democratic opinion on Hunter Biden. I struggle to find places in which the Republicans have been good on corruption stuff over the last like five to seven years. Isn't the Democrats are perfect? I mean, they were not calling for Menendez to resign back in 2018 when he was under his first indictment.

they should have. It's not like Democrats are all angels, you know, whether the party is perfect. But relatively speaking, they just seem to be the more healthy institution. Yeah, the Ken Paxton stuff, to me, is particularly galling. He is so clearly guilty of abusing his office. He's so clearly utterly corrupt. And the Texas Republican Party has done everything but throw him a ticker tape parade, which may be scheduled for the next two weeks. I don't even know. He could wind up being catapulted into the United States Senate because of this. Yeah, it's unreal. That's the craziness of this, right? Like Matt Gates not resigning with his problem. All these things become a badge of honor on the Republican side. And once you have that divergent response between the two parties where one decides they're going to start embracing scandal and embracing corruption, I don't know what the path back from that is. Right? Because then, you know, the people in your midst who are the good guys like the Mike Pence is the world, they get looked at as chumps, you know? And do you, I don't know.

Did you see this poll from Desiree? Desiree news yesterday. showing that Republican voters think that Trump is more religious than Mike Pence and Mitt Romney. Yeah. It's just like once you're into that delusional world, like, I just don't know how you get out of it. My thought is that this is what happens when you build the whole party out of Own the Libs? Is it just that simple or is there something else going on here? I don't know.

Certainly, that's a problem, right? I mean, once you are untethered to actual policy goals, by being tethered to policy goals, you are tethered then to wanting to have power so that you can enact those policy goals. And in order to achieve power, you have to sort of keep your own side as clean as, you know, you need to because you've got to win votes, right? And Republicans no longer have any policy goals. They seem to much prefer to own the libs than to win even. And also, they've discovered that minority rule is the thing that they can do.

And that's the other part of this, I think. I have come around to the idea that the electoral college is a very real problem for us in the fact. that Republicans have discovered that they can control the presidency without ever getting more than like 45% of the vote and that that has like unleashed a Pandora's box within our American politics. At the same time, I'm not convinced that going to a national popular vote would be better because I think it unlocks its own set of problems. So like everything's bad and we're all doomed no matter what we do. I would like to point out now that I have been anti-electro college for well-nigh decades now. And I took a lot of grief from a lot of people. I'm not saying you were one of them. You may have been, but it is

astounding to me how many people are coming around to the Levy principle, as it has been coined by various people, all of whom are in my family. Well, do you want to talk about this? As I said, I think the Electoral College does a couple of things for you, which are good and helpful. It makes the emergence of a third party pretty hard because it makes the third party hard. It means, that everything sort of sorts out to a binary, you know, people have to make decisions on issues and go one way or the other. It probably is pretty good to make it harder for a third-party person to come and out of nowhere, like, pull a Macron in the U.S., which like in the U. you know, I think we look at Emmanuel Macron and we think, well, God, yeah, we would like to have that as part. You know, we could just have a smart technocrat come in and break the two-party

hold. But I don't know, I look around American voters and I think, why wouldn't Donald Trump have been that third party person, right? Absent, you know, if it was all national popular vote, why wouldn't he have come in and run against Marker Rubio and Hillary Clinton and won the presidency that way? It just seems to me that going to a national popular vote makes the money in politics problem way harder and makes you much more vulnerable to a wealthy demagogue.

Sure, I hear that, but I also think that it's a little absurd that if we're talking about third parties, like, for instance, Ross Perrault spent, I don't know how many, tens of or hundreds of millions of dollars running and he got as many electoral votes as I did? That doesn't seem fair to me. Yes, I would agree. On the other hand, the Electoral College kept Ross Pro from being a serious contender to be president, which is a good thing.

True. Right. This is the, you see, it's too short. I just, I don't, you know, you pick your voice in with these things. Man, it's all bad. I could see a halfway measure where the Electoral College votes are awarded by congressional. district, right? So it's winter take all by CD, and maybe that splits the difference and makes it, you know, harder to do pure minority rule. I don't know that that would make our gerrymandering

problem any better than it is now. No. So there's that. All right, let's get back to Menendez. You mentioned that there were a couple of Republicans, Tom Cotton, Marco Rubio. You failed to mention George Santos, but he is out there saying that Menendez should not step down. I couldn't find, but it's possible I missed it. Have any Republicans called for Menendez to step down? Not that I've seen. I mean, maybe it's happened somewhere. Maybe, maybe New Jersey has happened. I haven't seen it. I was super interested about this for the Republican debate last night. And I thought, huh, it's going to be interesting to see if like the Mike Pence's and Chris Christie's the world. Actually, I think Chris Christie is probably called him to resign. What will they say? Will they try the two clever by half? You know, no, you should stay there. Let the voters decide. Or will they be sensible and call? But then, of course, they didn't ask at the debate, which is the craziest thing. I mean, Fox is like, there. You're so in on the game. It's wild. Yeah. Christy, I know he said he won't run for Menendez's Senate seat. I don't know that he actually called for him to step down, though.

Yeah, I'd have to effort that. Since you brought it up, I would be remiss if I had Jonathan last on the show and didn't ask him what he made of the Republican debate Wednesday night. So since I do have Jonathan last on the show, I will ask him what he made of the Republican debate Wednesday night. It was a mass delusion. Why do we say that that was a Republican presidential debate? Because none of those people are going to be the Republican presidential nominee. None of the things that were talked about by those people are going to have anything to do with who the Republican voters choose to be the presidential nominee. Those people's own views of what the Republican Party are with the exception of Vivek Ramoswamy, Vivek is pretty in tune with the Republican Party.

But the rest of them, they have like this fantasy view. vision of who and what the Republican Party is, which bears no correlation to reality. And so it's this weird, very elaborate play acting. It's really bad. It's really, really bad. I mean, we've got one political party, which as an institution is not great. The voters for this political party, not all of them, but some very large chunk of them, maybe it's 45%, maybe it's 65%, want something very bad and very dangerous. And we all may wind up getting it as a result. And we all may wind up getting it as a result, what drives me a little crazy is the extent to which there is a large chunk of the world, which is treating all of this as if it's totally normal and legitimate. And Donald Trump is going

to be the Republican Party nominee. He's got at least a one and two chance to be president. Then a few days ago, he called for the execution of General Mark Millie, and nobody even fucking blinked. I don't know. Like, you know, I, what are we supposed to do when everybody else everywhere just takes all of this as like, yeah, whatever? Yeah, I said that the other. day on this show. It's like you don't want to fall into the trap of responding to everything Donald Trump says. But on the other hand, you can't just shrug your shoulders and say, oh, that's just Trump being Trump. When he says stuff like that, like you have to call it out and you have to talk about it. And it sucks that you have to talk about it. But he is such a

destabilizing force and such a, I don't even know the word anymore, but calling for the execution and if you want to split hairs, he didn't actually call for the execution. He said that things that Millie did would have been punishable by death or something like that. But my point is you can't just shrug your shoulders and say, oh, that's just Trump. Don't give him any oxygen. Yeah. Look, this isn't 2016 where we could all pretend that, well, these are just the mean tweets and he'll grow in office and the grownups will be around him.

Because we all saw it. He attempted a fucking coup, right? This is the, you know, you can't even hide behind. the idea that like, well, you know, in reality, it'll be better. Like, we've all seen reality. And the reality was as bad as the most alarmist people thought it might be. There are days when I wake up and I, you know, I do feel like I'm kind of the Will Ferrell Magatou character from Zoolander. Like, I do feel like I'm the one taking crazy pills. I don't understand why, I don't know, like, why CNN covers it like it's just 2012 or, you know, 2008 or any

other, yeah, it's just, you know, just politics happening here. No, it's a fucking dissolution of the Republic happening. That's what's happening. It really is. And it just boggles my mind to watch so many people, again, just sort of like shrug their shoulders or roll their eyes. And it's like on a sitcom when someone would see something crazy and another character would go, oh, Donald. And then the audience would laugh. And another thing, Andy, and now that you've wound me up. It is not the case that Joe Biden has been the second coming of Jimmy Carter, right? A hapless president who just bumbles from mistake to mistake and who has been in office while the country has been undergoing a terrible, terrible run of bad luck.

Like, Biden has been by any reasonable measure. One of the more successful first-term presidents we've had. We are in a very good economy. Job growth, manufacturing starts. Even now, finally, inflation under control and real wage growth, outpacing inflation. America is at peace. He has been. managed a very difficult foreign policy situation in Russia and Ukraine very, very deftly. And yet you look at the polling. It's not just the matchup polling between him and Trump, which has them at worst even or at best even. It's all the ancillary polling asking about like characteristics and trails. And on the question of who is mentally capable of being president, Joe Biden or Donald Trump, like Trump wins that by like 12 points. I'm sorry. Have you not ever heard

that man speak. I know. This is an unsurious country populated by unsurious people. And if we dodge another bullet again, it will be a miracle. Well, I think I'll leave it there with that cheery thought. America, go stick your head in an oven. Exactly. Jonathan, thanks so much for being here. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. And I actually mean that when I say it. Thank you, Andy. Andy Levy. Danielle Moody. Andy Levy. How are we? we closing out this good week with your fuck that guy? My fuck that guy is sort of a combination of Donald Trump and some of the media. And this stems from the fact that on Wednesday, Trump went to Michigan in the middle of what is now a night at auto worker's strike. And he gave a speech.

As he was giving that speech, there were people in the audience with signs that said union members for Trump, auto workers for Trump, things like that. Well, it turns out, first of all, he gave the speech at a non-unionized automotive parts supplier and at least one attendee who had a union members for Trump sign when interviewed afterwards admitted that she was not a union member. One man who was holding an auto workers for Trump sign admitted that he was not an auto worker. This is not unusual. Like Trump has been doing this shit. I saw someone say that maybe the union that the woman was in was sag. I forget who said it, but it was a really funny line. I saw it on Twitter. This is something that they've been doing. We've heard other stories about this where they put

ringers in the crowd that hold up signs that misrepresent who they are. So that makes it particularly galling when you see media reports that say that because Joe Biden had been there and he actually stood on the picket line with the United Auto Workers and he met with Sean Fane, the president of the UAW. But then you'll see media reports equating the two things, what Trump did and what Biden did. And it's absolutely mind-blowing to me that in 2023, anyone in the media could look at what someone like Donald Trump does and not ask questions. And while I'm doing a fuck that guy, I should give, we should send kudos to the Detroit News, which is the organization, the reporter for that organization is the one who asked these people and just, you know, to talk to these people

and discovered that they were not who their signs claimed they were. So, you know, good on them, absolutely. But there's other media, including the hallowed New York Times, that just keeps insisting on this both side stuff and equating Donald Trump and Joe Biden and putting them at the same level when it is, could not be more clear the difference between the two men. And again, you don't have to be the world's biggest Joe Biden fan to point out that, as Joe Biden himself said about something else, it's a big fucking deal when the president of the United States joins a picket line of the United auto workers who are on strike. And comparing that in any way to Donald Trump going to a non-union shop and having people in the audience hold up fake signs, it angers me so much that they haven't

learned a goddamn thing in the past 10 years or whatever it's been. So my fuck that. guy is both Donald Trump for doing this, and it's also whatever media sort of allowed him to get away with it until it was reported out by the Detroit News. It's just so on fucking brand. Do you know what I'm saying? Like in the same week that you are aired out as being a fucking fraud. You know, you go and send people home to make handmade signs. I mean, it's like the blacks for Trump and only white people are wearing them.

I'm like, oh, they mean black letters, not people? Like, what the fuck? Fuck that guy. Your automatic assumption has to be if you're in the media, when you see things like that, is like, oh, I bet those aren't real. Like, that has to be your mindset. And the fact that it still isn't for such a large segment of the media is what drives me nuts. Yeah. And what is going to drive us all to hell.

Yep. So there's that. Yeah. So, Danielle, how are you ending up this another fabulous week? in America. I want to shout out a follower on threads who said, Danielle, you should do this as the fuck that guy, which is Elon Musk, who I have not talked about in a couple of weeks. Because he stays a fuck that guy in my mind. I don't just always come to the table with him. But so Elon Musk, there probably is not. And this is, you know, my opinion, a more dangerous

person to our election integrity right now than Elon Musk, the wealthiest man in the entire fucking world. And what is he done, Andy? Well, I'll tell you on his bullshit X site, which day by day, I use less and less and less because, I mean, I don't want to bathe in acid rain. I don't know about you, but he has decided to cut his entire election integrity team. What does the election integrity team do? Oh, you know, they make sure that there is no election interference, that they authenticate media, that they air out deceptive identities. You know, all of the things that Russia was able to do in 2016, escalate in 2020,

and will continue to now use AI and other technologies in order to interfere with our free and fair elections. Whether or not you're still readily using the artist formerly known as Twitter, the fact is, is that it is still a place where people go to get their news and get their information. By him now gutting this department ahead of the most important fucking election in our lifetimes, not just for people in this country, but for people around the world that depend on America remaining a democracy, for him to do that, again, is just like, dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? And I know that Elon Musk can't answer that question because he does not know. It pisses me off that the media, corporate media, turn this motherfucker into everybody's

favorite genius. Let's cover his rocket ships. Let's cover his cars. Oh, he's so brilliant and that's what makes him so rich and blah blah blah. Elon Musk is a fucking asshole who much like a lot of white men that are idolized in this goddamn country got their money from daddy and steals ideas from other people. And because of his access and his celebrity has been able to continue to capitalize on that. It does not go to justify the fact that he's fucking dangerous and that is the way that he should be discussed. So for that reason, he is my fuck that guy of the week. Yeah. Daniel, I don't like Elon Musk.

Yeah. I want to make that clear. I don't know if I've made that clear enough. Mm-hmm. I don't like him. I do think Vladimir Putin is probably happy about his decision. Oh, yeah. He loves him some Putin too.

Yeah. So he's got that going for him, which is nice. Mm-hmm. Fuck that guy. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of The New Abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder.

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