The Daily Beast Podcast - George Carlin’s Daughter Says He’d ‘Roll Eyes’ at Far Right

Episode Date: May 29, 2022

Kelly Carlin, daughter of the late comedian George Carlin, is mystified that Donald Trump followers and right-wingers have tried to claim her dad as one of their own. She came on the pod with comedian and director Judd Apatow to talk to hosts Andy Levy and Molly Jong-Fast about her dad, how they think he’d feel about Republicans today and about Apatow’s upcoming George Carlin documentary on HBO, which Apatow says “terrified” him at first. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Molly Zhang Fast, no relationship to Kim Jong-un. I'm a left-wing pundant and a writer at the Atlantic Invo. And I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart, conversations with the wisest and funniest and funniest people in science and media and politics that help make what's happening today clearer. Our world has been turned upside down, and on the new abnormal, we'll talk about the people who got us into this mess and how we'll hopefully get ourselves out of it. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new abnormal, and we thank you so much for being here. Today, we have one of my favorite interviews we've ever done on this podcast. It's with Judd Apatow and Kelly Carlin, who's of course the daughter of George Carlin, on their new movie George Carlin's American Dream.

This documentary moved me so much. It's one of the best things I've ever seen. And this interview just helps bring more light to the subject, one of the greatest comedians of all time, George Carlin. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some really uplifting, happy, upbeat clips? Yes. I don't like the way you said that, though. No, I know you're, I'm trying to trick me.

That sounds like me. We've sadly had a bad week here at America, and unfortunately, we're going to have to discuss some bad, things. Up first, we have the most pathetic senator, I think, of them all. One Ted Cruz, no one likes him, and he's about to show us why as he gets interviewed by a Sky News reporter. There are 19 sets of parents

who are never going to get to kiss their child tonight again. Is this the moment to reform gun laws? You know, it's easy to go to politics. But it's important. It's at the heart of the issue. I get that. that that's where the media likes to go. It's not. It's where many of the people we've talked to here like to go.

The proposals from Democrats in the media, inevitably when some violent psychopath murders people. A violent psychopath who's able to get a weapon so easily, 18-year-old with two AR-15s. If you want to stop violent cry, the proposals the Democrats have, none of them would have stopped this. But why does this only happen in your country?

I really think that's what many people around the world, just they cannot fathom. Why only in America? Why is this American exceptionalism so awful? You know, I'm sorry you think American exceptionalism is awful. I think this aspect. I think this aspect of it. You get your political agenda. God love you. Senator, it's not. I just want to understand why you do not think that guns are the problem. Why is this just an American problem? It is just an American problem, sir. Mr. Cruz, why is America the only country that faces this You know what? But you can't answer that?

You can't answer that, can you say? You can't answer that. Why is it that people come from all over the world to America? Because it's the freest, most prosperous, safest country on Earth. It may be the freest, maybe the most proper. Why are our kids dying in? American exceptionalism is like almost a drug. Like, he's like, you know, everyone, you know, this is a British guy from Sky.

He's not from Sky News. He's from regular Sky. but he's British. He obviously is not a Democrat or Republican. I mean, he's, you know, he's British, so he's, you know, maybe a Tory or a liberal. And he's saying, you know, why is your country? I mean, this is like not even a, you can't argue with this. Like there's one country that has all these kids who get murdered at school and it's America. There are no other countries like this. Doesn't happen in France. Doesn't happen in England. It doesn't happen in Ireland. It only happens in America. So, like, You know, and, you know, that's not, that's not up for dispute, but it's, he's like, yes, you people, you people, you people want to politicize everything. I mean, he was like, the liberal media, I mean, it's just like, the thing that's kind of amazing to me is like the lesson that these people have learned from Trump is just to be as shitty at all times, just to never, ever not be shitty. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know, Ted Cruz has learned that lesson well and has become, he is the dead. definition of shitty all the time. If you told Ted Cruz to eat shit, you would be saying you want

him to commit an act of cannibalism. But to get to your American exceptionalism thing, and you said it's like a drug. It's not a drug. I think it's a religion. I mean, it's sort of inculcated in Americans at an early age that we are an exceptional country. And you learn this it in school. You learn it from listening to politicians, and you are just beaten over the head with it over and over again that about American exceptionalism, and America is this, you know, the shining city on a hill and all that stuff. And look, there is truth to that. He was very clear that he was only talking, he was talking about this aspect of American exceptionalism. But of course, Cruz did the, it's the politicians. It's the Trump trick. I'm saying,

oh, you, you hate American exceptionalism? And the guy was like, Like, no, I hate this aspect of it. And, you know, but Cruz doesn't want to hear that. And it's just, it really is. It's a religion with so many people in this country that, like, you know, if you say the slight, if you point out any flaw. Right. Why do you hate America?

Yeah, that you're somehow some kind of, you know, Stalinist. And it's just, it's insane. Right. I mean, he's Canadian. Sorry. Continue. The only bad thing to ever come from Canada. Sorry, go on.

This and that Matt Euglesias tweet that went around are both the epitome of that Matt Boers comic that says, we should improve society somewhat. The guy pops out of the well and says, yet you participate in society. Curious. I am very intelligent. Yeah, that Matt Eglacius tweet. Yeah. What of the worst tweets on that cursed site of all time?

It's amazing because it's like, I wonder what the thinking there was, like, 19 fourth graders. Just remind people how great America is. The tweets that were like owning it were like people from South Korea talking about how expensive American health care is. People from Canada. People from France and England. I mean, it was like a pretty good case for why that's not right. Well, I have bad news.

The takes are just going to get worse. Unfortunately, the beatings are going to continue until more out on Pruss. Dan Patrick, Lieutenant Governor of Texas, he has a solution to the school shootings. That's going to really work, guys. There are lots of short things that we can do, and we must do, and we've done a lot in Texas, but obviously we must do more. You know, hardened schools. There should be one entrance in and one entrance out in all of our elementary and all of our middle schools.

They're small enough to do that. There should be only one way in, and that should be a well-protected entrance in. We already have a program where we allow any teacher in school in the district wants to be armed, to be armed. We train them. It's up to the schools. We leave that optional. We have metal detectors at schools. If those schools make that decision and we funded that, we put in 100 millions, we put in mental health issues. But I go back to we can do all of these things. We've got to get to the base route of this. What's causing these young men in America to get a gun either legally or illegally to go into a school and murder children in cold blood?

I mean doors. Obviously the door lobby does not have effective lobby because they are being targeted by Republicans. Yeah, no, the NDA is historically very, very small. Right. And the thing is, though, and this is important to remember that they start off, you know, they come for your doors. But then, you know, then it's your windows. It's windows next. Yeah.

They will go for cat flaps if you let them. And, you know, dumb waiters even... Cat flaps. What kind of coastal elitist are you cat flaps? Cat flaps, that's not a coastal elite thing? That's a live out in the, you know, live out in a rural area. I mean, I'd be all for banning the doors music, personally. Oh, break on through to the other side, man.

Listen, doors, they're obsessed with doors because it's always... anything but the guns. Yeah, of course. Jesse, come on, man. The doors get such a bad rap these days, and I get it, but let's not pretend that the doors got a lot of people through college and, you know, to pay a little respect to, you know, a band, they have some good songs, and I just, I, the disrespect, boy. I'll do it guilty as charged. I will say this, you know, You know how we always forget all the lessons of the past? I seem to remember this movie called Lean on Me, where we learned why we don't lock kids in. And that was before we had school shootings when they would just get locked in with the shooter if they got inside.

Well, that's what happened. Yeah, and the Virginia Tech thing was made worse because they locked the door. Right, they had the doors locked in Virginia Tech, too. Yeah. I mean, it's also like the triangle shirt waste factory. It's not the time to start locking people in places. I don't think that solves any problems. And the truth is all these shootings.

It was the same weapon, this AR-15. So obviously, it's not the doors. It's the AR-15s. Yeah, and the worst, like, to talk about hardening schools, and it's just, like, at that point, you've sort of got to look at, holy shit, we live in a society where we have to think about hardening our schools and making them tougher targets.

Let's talk about why, you know, if you want to solve this, you've got to solve the issue of why that's the case. It's not a question of throwing all the fire codes out and having one exit and one entrance. I mean, it's just these people who are just, they're out of their damn minds. Well, I got bad news because it's going to get worse right now. How are you doing this to us? This is a holiday weekend, Jesse. I blame America.

Maureen O'Connell on Fox News has some other ideas on how to invest in kids. I mean, this is just beyond shocking. I would like to see this a national. push toward instead of parents buying their kids all these tools and toys and games, invest in the classroom to make it safer. There are companies out there that will do that. They'll come out and they'll do threat assessment of the whole school. They'll say, this is an area of vulnerability that you might want to address, and this is how we would address it. And they have, I mean, they have blankets that you can put up on the wall that are colorful and beautiful, but they're

ballistic blankets. I mean, there are ways to obscure the classroom windows so that the shooter can't have target acquisition. I mean, there's just a million tools out there, but it's, and we've been banging this drum for years. Let's start investing in our kids. Wait, she wants to invest in what? Ballistic blankets, Molly. Come on. Oh, oh, okay. That makes sense. Instead of buying your kids, the video games they want this holiday season. It's time to get them one of those bulletproof backpacks, is what she's saying. I just would like to point out that there are a lot of teachers who use places like GoFund Me to get school supplies for their kids. None of these people give a shit about kids.

And these are the same people. They don't want to spend the money on air filtration systems when we have a, for when we have a pandemic. They don't want to spend money on actual school supplies, but they want to put ballistic fucking blankets up on the wall. I mean, oh my God. They sound like robots. I'm actually just surprised they didn't want to give the kids guns. I actually thought that's where she was going to go to. Like, teach them how to buy them a gun at age five.

I swear to God, that's where I thought she was going. That's where I thought I was going to because they were very, yeah. So that's a sign of just how far gone Andy and I are. Here's my Fox News audition. Crossfire, the kids are safe in it when it's untrained shooters. They're always safe in crossfire. Yeah, that makes sense. So there's one last idea on how we fix this from the future brain trust of the

Senate if he gets elected, one Herschel Walker. Oh, great. Hey, Bonner Roger with CNN. I know. Are you supporting new gun laws in the wake of this Texas shooting? Do you support new gun laws in the wake of this Texas shooting? What I like to do, what I like to do is shit. and everything

and stuff. I'd like to see it, you know. My favorite New Jersey Patrick. He'd like to see it? I'd like to see it. I believe the actual quote is

so that you guys could fully take this in in case it wasn't clear. What I'd like to do is see it and everything and stuff. Yeah, that's what I say. See it in everything and stuff. By the way, if this guy goes to the Senate, it's going to be something.

I'd like to see one of you run for office with like a nice lawn sign that says this under your names. What's going to say under our names is it's going to be something. I just want buttons that say end stuff. Judd Apatow and Kelly Carlin are the makers of new HBO Max original George Carlin's American Dream. Welcome to new abnormal Judd and Calle. Well, thank you for having us, me. Great to be here. I'm so excited to have you both.

And, I mean, this is just such a cool movie and such an interesting project. Can you tell the story of how you guys got here? Because that's, I always want to know the backstory. Well, I met Kelly through our mutual friend, Gary Shanling. And we knew each other a little bit over the years. and HBO asked me if I wanted to direct this. And so I asked my co-director, Michael Bonfiglio, and he was very excited.

And I was very nervous because George Carlin was one of the main reasons I got into comedy. I listened to his albums when I was a little kid. And I feel like he broke things down in such a specific way and looked at the world as such a critical thinker that it like installs the software in your mind of how to write joke and how to think and how to look at things. I really didn't want to screw up a documentary about his life,

and I didn't know him. I knew Gary very well, and I thought, can you do something as good as the Gary Shandling documentary without knowing him? And that terrified me, but then we soon realized that Kelly is such an incredible storyteller and is so brutally honest that we could tell the story primarily through her eyes.

From my perspective, I had met the producer Teddy Leifer about two years, before we decided to do this documentary. And he and I had been talking about wanting to work together and do a documentary on my dad. And it wasn't perfect timing for us. We had a couple other things going on that we were kind of looking into.

And it became obvious that it was time to do it now. And we interviewed about four other people before we got to Judd. And yet when we spoke to Judd, I knew in my mind that there would be no other person because Judd just ticked off a million of the boxes for me, which is storyteller, high emotional intelligence, fan of comedy, had done Gary such justice in his documentary

and had revealed parts of Gary that I felt were his soul. And for me, if you're not telling about the soul of a person, it's a waste of time. So I knew that Judd was the guy and was super excited when it all came together. Well, that was definitely something I noticed when I was watching it. And I have to say, I was totally destroyed by the second COVID booster when I watched it. And I had a fever of like 101.8. But I watched like all four hours straight. And it kept me sane. It was fantastic. But the sense I got was that, you know, sometimes people talk about, oh, well, this is an authorized, you know,

biography or documentary, and it's going to be fluff. And then there's others that just proudly scream warts and all. And this didn't really feel like either of those. It just felt honest. It just felt like this was George Carlin. This was his wife. This was, you know, this was his daughter. This was his life. And it was so refreshing and so just gripping to have a documentary that felt that way that didn't really feel like, you know, hey, we're trying to do this. or hey, we're trying to do this. And it was just like, no, we're trying to show the man. And that was absolutely the sense I got from watching it.

Well, that's all I really am trying to do through the whole processes, get to the truth. And, you know, it can be hard sometimes because if the family or the people who are responsible for the estate are trying to protect the person you're making the documentary about, you really can't do it properly. And I think that's the problem with some, documentaries. There's, you know, there's a lot of rough stuff in this story. And I think that's what

makes it emotional because he fought through a lot. He fought through addiction and different difficult periods in his life and in his marriage. And he had to grow up and he had to evolve. But you do need the estate to say, you're allowed to tell the story. And I think Kelly has used all of these traumatic experiences in her work as someone who's very interested in self-help and coaching people and therapy. And that's a really beautiful thing because it can crush you to grow up in that house or you can take all that experience and go, how can I help other people? I know you wouldn't understand. But I'm trying to explain something here. And we all have those experiences. I mean, people don't go into comedy because everything went

great at home. But you can fall apart or you could say, what could I learn from the mistakes I watched around me? Yeah. So I have a question for both of you, which I think is actually a really hard question. How is it possible that the things George talked about are still, he's sort of very much on the cutting edge,

even now politically? I mean, his material has aged so, well to make it almost seem that we are having the same problems that we were. I don't think that's a difficult question, actually, because he said it himself so many times. He's a man who was paying attention, and he didn't flinch from the truth. We did as an audience. We did as a culture. We let ourselves be distracted by the phones that make pancakes, et cetera, you know, he merely saw the truth and spoke it. We've known about this, I mean, for decades, how greed works, how selfishness works, how the media is used to keep people asleep. And we've certainly in this country know about

what it means to have, you know, wealthy people who self-serve over and over again. So, you know, we're kind of, it's a cyclical pattern. I mean, every time we go through the pattern, I think we come out a little more enlightened and more people in the culture get protected and get some piece of the pie. But, you know, the 80s really did my dad in in a lot of ways. He really, his heart was broken. You know, he voted from a governor in 72. And so I think he was just paying attention speaking the truth. I think as an audience, we were very nervous. about that. And so we called it dark or angry, but he clearly saw where the ship was sailing. But also one of the things about him, which, you know, and I guess it was one of the things that

I obviously sort of knew because I knew his career. And Judd, like you, I, you know, I grew up listening to class clown and things like that. But the way he reinvented, reinvented himself so many times is as far as I can figure, it's completely unparalleled in the history of comedy. And this is not a knock on them, but you look at Jerry Seinfeld. He's pretty much doing the same type of stuff he was doing. Robert Klein is doing the same type of stuff he was doing. Jackie Mason just was doing the same kind of routine. But George Carlin was not that guy.

And he just, he had this unbelievable ability to sort of see what was going on around him. And I don't want to say he adapted to what was going on around him, but he took notice. And he made that what he was doing. And I don't feel like there are really any other comics that I can think of that have done that. Well, it's really, really difficult to do. You have to look at music as a place where that happens more often where Bob Dylan suddenly electric. And then he gets religious. And then later in his life, he has these dark albums like Time Out of Mind.

And Madonna or You Too does it. But he did it five times from where I stand. started in an act with Jack Burns in a duo. Then he did a softer stand-up act that was meant to be consumed by people. It wasn't very shocking. He tried to slip some edgy political material in here and there, but it was softer. And then he went full hippie, rebel comedian. And then he kind of softened it again because he had a heart attack and he was stressed and it became a little bit different. Maybe he got tired of fighting to get people to understand certain things. And then suddenly he doubled down and he got more political and went darker. And then in this final phase, he had a

comedic stance, which was basically the world is coming to an end and I'm just going to sit here like an audience and watch it and laugh. I always thought that the intention of it was to say, you know, you're young. You could fix it. I don't have time to fix it anymore. And we have completely missed the opportunity to take care of each other and take care of the earth. And he went so dark that maybe it would push you back into the lights. So, Jed, I'm just curious, because as you show it in the documentary in that last sort of phase, a lot of people referred to him as, that's nihilistic. And the documentary kind of leaves it open to interpretation.

You have some people saying that, oh, yeah, he was nihilistic. And you have other people saying, no, he wasn't. He was just, you know, he was sort of what you said, trying to use the darkness to show people back to the light. Kelly, I'm curious, obviously, he was your dad. What do you make of that? What did you think he was? Yeah. You know, times it was hard for me.

You know, I even said it in the documentary that I pushed up against it at one point and said, well, why even bother writing and going on a stage? Like, you know, if you don't care. And I'm sorry, that's when he responded, you've got me there, right? Yes. And, you know, that's when he started talking in public more about being this disappointed idealist. And I would like sit up in interviews going, oh, he's talking about that now. Because I think it was a reflection for him to understand. And I think if he was a true nihilist, I think he would have given up on people, like individuals also.

And he never did. He loved people. He, every single person I talked to whoever met him from the biggest star to the, you know, the guy at the grocery store said, your dad took the time. He looked me in the eye. He was kind. He was curious. He was present. And that's not a guy who's a nihilist. That's a guy who's, you know, a human being who's got a heart and who really does still believe in the individual. And that from an individual's heart and soul, there's there's always possibility, you know, that that's my take on it. Take, I mean, your dad died when he was young, relatively speaking. 71, yeah.

Yeah. And especially for now, young. Do you ever think about like this sort of what he might have done in those last couple decades? Yeah, you know, it's kind of hard because the reality was he did have heart disease. After he died, the cardiologist said to me, you know, people who have a heart attack in their 40s don't make it to 70. And he was kind of a medical miracle because his heart was really damn. and she never had open heart surgery. He only had the angioplasties and stuff like that. He was in heart failure for a good two or three years before he died. So it's just hard for me to imagine because I know

the reality of his physical health, but he would have taken us all to task the left and the right, as he normally did. He would have decimated social media and our obsession with it. And yet at the same time, there is a clip somewhere. I don't know if you saw this anywhere. I can't remember. I think it was the Tonight Show where he said something like, you know, I just want to invent a machine where I can send a joke out to the world once a day. Because I've got things that don't fit in my larger routines, but I've got some great little jokes. And of course, he put those all in his books. And I thought, I saw the clip and I thought, my God, my dad just invented Twitter. Although, crucially, his version would have been so much better because it would have been only once a day. Yes. One of the amazing quotes I've seen is that quote where he talks about not being a bully and sort of speaking truth to power. I think that's a really interesting part of his sort of Gestalt. Can you talk about that?

From my point of view, from day one, my dad taught me as a human on earth that you never quote unquote punch down, right? That there are people here on the planet that have been endlessly screwed by the past. powers that be and that you don't make it worse for them. And he talked me how to, I mean, the term anti-racist is used all the time. But my dad, like when I was seven, taught me how to be an anti-racist, basically. So, you know, that was really important to him. The underdog meant everything to him. And in this country, the underdog are minorities, you know, women and gays and black and brown people. And of course, you know, the far right would like to say, that they're the minority now, but he would roll his eyes because we know where all the wealth and the power is, of course. That was the core, the deepest, deepest core of my father's

moral center from day one of his life, I would think. It's talked about, particularly at the top of the documentary, by showing tweets and stuff like that, how sort of the left and the right sort of claim George Carlin, at least parts of him as their own. And I think it's obviously fair to say he would find much to go after on the left and not incorrectly. But it's almost impossible to picture him being any part of a political movement that elected Donald Trump president. You know, and that uses woke as a pejorative and basically act like a bunch of bullies towards, you know, transgendered people and, and gays and minorities.

Am I wrong in thinking that? I always think that what he was trying to tell people was that financial interests want the country to be fighting. That's how they steal all the money that people are preoccupied. And I also think that he thought that the system was rigged, that, you know, obviously dark money controls who is elected. And all of these issues that are prominent these days, whether it's abortion and gay rights, trans rights, you know, it's Republicans trying to get people worked up so they can stay in power or get back in power. But I would say that for a majority of the people who are financing this, they don't care about these issues. I don't think that they care. When Elon Musk says,

I'm a Republican now, he's not worried about people having abortions. He's not anti-abortion. He's not anti-gay rights. He only cares about his money and that so much of what we're fighting about is built on a game. And the game is keeping powerful people in control of everything. And he talked a lot about that in a way that I don't think many other people have been able to capture. And that's why those routines go around the internet. Yeah. Some right wing people are like, oh, he was anti-government because he said don't trust anything the government said. But I think that they try to, you use that to support all of these issues that he was completely against because he was for a woman's right to choose. He was for gun control and being concerned about military interventions and on and on and on.

Before he died in 2008, you know, and Hillary was running. And my dad was like, you know, it'll be good. Hillary will get in there and she'll get some people, some jobs, you know. I mean, of course he leaned that direction. And, you know, my dad was a lifelong New Yorker and lifelong New Yorkers, you know, hate Donald Trump. So, I mean, really, my dad, people like Donald Trump. So it just always shocks me when these Trumpers want to claim him. I'm like, don't you, what, huh? Well, and I think it's fair to say that, like, Judge, you brought up Elon Musk.

Like, I agree, Elon Musk doesn't care about abortion and stuff like that. But what he's willing to do is he's willing to throw gay people and transnational, and the right to choose. He's willing to throw all that under the bus to keep himself comfortable. And George Carlin seemed like the kind of guy who was never willing to throw anyone under the bus. Oh, absolutely. And what is darker than that, right? Yeah. To throw like young, gay and trans kids under the bus. They're trying so hard to find support. So many kids are suicidal. There's so much violence against them and some fucking asshole is like I'm going to announce I'm a Republican solely because I'm concerned about my tax rate while people are dying. Right. Yeah. People are suffering so much and I'm going to

buy the major platform where I can promote all of these ideas and they're all self-serving. None of it is about serving other people. I mean, there was a 60 minutes last night where there was a gentleman, I forgot his name and he paid for college for 30,000 kids in Chicago. But you don't really hear that from a lot of these billionaires. They don't tend to do that. And we heard so much about, oh, all the billionaires are giving away all their money, but they all have made more money since they said they were giving away all their money. You know, Bill Gates has way more money than the moment when he said,

I'm giving away all my money. And I can't imagine, I mean, just as somebody who has found some success, How much money do you need? Literally, what do you need it for? It is just a game. They're all playing some weird chess game and trying to get to Mars and find ways to elongate their lives. But so little of it when you get to having $100 million is about helping other people.

So you have these billionaires, but we find that other people in their worlds like Lorraine Jobs or McKenzie Bezos are so much more charitable than their husbands and are spending so much more time focused on trying to lift people up. And that's what George Carlin was railing about, the madness of that. And I would just say, you know, people used to call my father cynical. And he always said that the true cynics are the ones who know wrong from right and still do the wrong thing. That's cynical. He really believed that these people in power, and boy, you really see it these days in the GOP, it's a cynical power grab. Like you said earlier, you know, a lot of them don't care about some of these cultural issues, but they use them in order to hoard the power

and hoard wealth. That's cynical. Thank you both so much. It was so great to have you. Thanks. Thank you very much. Thank you. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast. In future episodes, we'll be talking to smart folks from The Daily Beast and beyond from media, culture, politics and science. We'll help us understand what's happening to our country and the world. We hope you'll subscribe to us on your favorite podcast app and share the show on social media. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you again on the next episode. Want more great listens?

Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the DailyBeast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.