The Daily Beast Podcast - George Santos Is the ‘Inventing Anna’ of Congress

Episode Date: May 14, 2023

In this episode of The New Abnormal podcast, hosts Andy Levy and Danielle Moodie respond to an interview clip where George Santos calls himself “regular guy” and explains the real reason why he thinks people don’t like him. And Danielle makes an astute comparison of Santos to the main character of the show “Inventing Anna,” a serial grifter. Plus, they unpack the 2018 recording of Ron DeSantis doing debate prep with Matt Gaetz who says he’s “aggressive” like Donald Trump. Then Andy chats with Marcus Flowers, who ran against Marjorie Taylor Greene in the 2022 election on what sets his new Mission: Democracy PAC apart from the Lincoln Project and why he thinks it can help candidates win in super MAGA-influenced districts.  Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Andy Levy, former Fox News and CNN-HLN guy, and current cable news conscientious objector. I'm a former libertarian who now sits pretty comfortably on the left. Hi, I'm Danielle Moody, former educator and recovering lobbyist. But today, I'm an unapologetic, woke commentator on America's threats to democracy. And I'm producer Jesse Cannon, and I'm here to make sure things don't go too far off the rails. We're here to have fun, smart conversations with some of the most knowledgeable and entertaining people in politics, media, and beyond. goal is to try and make sense of our current crazy world, our new abnormal, and hopefully even make you laugh through the tears. Hello and welcome to another Sunday bonus episode of the new abnormal.

We thank you so much for being here. Today we have an extra special guest with Marcus Flowers, who ran against Marjorie Taylor Green in the 2022 election, of course, unsuccessfully, and now has a new pack called Mission Democracy, and we'll talk to him all about the purpose of that pack. But first, let's have some fun. Are you guys ready to listen to some clips? Clips. Clips. All right. So this cringy guy named Bill Maher, who has a show that I really wish would go off the air,

as many times called Donald Trump a whiny little bitch. I always felt that wasn't the best characterization of the former racist game show host. But ABC has leaked some footage of Ron DeSantis, the governor of Florida's debate prep. But I have to say, I think that title Bill gave Trump fits him a little better. Let's listen. Have the NRA donated to me? I don't think the NRA is quite the bogeyman, the Democrats, I think it is. Do we hit him on guns or just everyone who cares about guns is going to vote for me?

Is there any issue upon which you disagree with President Trump? Obviously there is because I've been voted contrary to him in the cops. I have to frame it in a way. It's not going to piss off all his voters. So what I do is I do what I think is right. I support his agenda in terms of what he's been able to do. If I have a disagreement, I talk to him in private. I think when you walk up there, if you have to write in all caps at the top of the pad, like a whole.

And I do the same thing because I do the same thing. I do the same thing because I have the same personality. We're both aggressive. I don't think he knows what aggressive means. I don't think he knows what likable means. Oh, my God. He's just got a tone to him. It's the pitch for me.

You know what I'm saying? It's the pitch. Like, if I have a problem with him, I just, you know, I talk to him in private. Oh, God. Yeah, I never want to hear another man called a woman shrill. Would that voice exist? Oh, that's for sure. Yeah, Jesus.

Oh, God. Truly the appealing to Trump's voters and saying all of that out loud, yet again, the gift Trumpism gave us all. As though these people can ever keep the unsaid unsaid. No. Yeah, and we should point out that that's Matt Gates, who was doing the debate prep with Ron DeSantis. And that was Matt Gates who was saying, oh, I have the same problem. I'm also aggressive. That's a real Algonquin.

Oh my God. Yeah. Doesn't he pay 17-year-olds to have sex? Like, so I, you know, aggressive. Yeah. Allegedly, come on. Allegedly. Okay, sorry.

Allegedly. Allegedly brings young girls across state lines. Allegedly. Unindidedly. Uninditedly. No, I like that. I like that. Yeah.

Yeah. I too have those asterics. No, I don't. No, I fucking don't. I like unindicted. Individely, I hope the Daily Beast's lawyer is like it as much as me. Okay, a man named Alex Coker on Fox News. Well, if I'm being honest, it sounds like he was not unironically named because he sounds like he's living up to his name.

Since this is like the most deranged, coked up rant I've heard in a minute. Let's take a listen. Do. And just like General Mathis once said, you know, be polite, be professional. If I have a plan to kill everyone you meet because you never know. You know, if you're at your workplace, your business workplace, something you might say could possibly cost one to snap because they've had a very bad day. You don't know what kind of day someone's had. And your words can make the difference to seem, you know, someone having a good day or a bad day.

So always speak, you know, with kind words to somebody. And your words can make a difference. What? That's a hell of a way to go through life. Always be prepared. Like, did he both say speak kindly, but always be prepared to kill someone? That's how he's saying American workplace. This should be today because we can't handle the guns.

Yeah. Oh, so there's no HR in the America he lives in. Well, there's no gun control in the America he lives in. Well, that's true. Andy, since you often know these unsavory characters at Fox News that somehow slip through my cracks of the back bench, are you familiar with this fellow? No, I had never heard of him before this clip started making the rounds, and I'm not really sure who he is. I can tell you that the only place I've ever worked where we did think something like that was at Fox News. I'll keep this super brief.

But early on in Red Eye, when Red Eye first launched, they gave us a show member, a staff, you know, someone who was on the show named Rachel Marsden. And I would encourage you to Google her. It's quite a story. The movie Swim fan was based on her. No way. Yes. So Google a movie Swim fan too. I won't get into it here.

but we actually used to sit there and talk about what we would do if she came around the corner to where our little offices were and was holding an AR-15. Oh, my God. She later got let go because she annoyed and harassed Shep Smith and Bill O'Reilly enough that they noticed because they sure as hell didn't care when we told them she was crazy. So anyway. Wow. Wow. I will just say this, that I'm really glad that we're really glad that we're. we all work from our individual homes.

Not that I think any of you would do this, but, you know, I'm just so glad I don't have to think about who I might have to kill each day. Seamus isn't that threatening when he's here. Wow. Wow. So as we discussed on Friday's episode of this podcast, CNN held the worst disaster in modern cable news history by having Trump to a town hall. But this clip here, I actually think, is really the standout that was less discussed,

is it sums up the Republican Party and the American people's sentiments towards them at times, and I think it's really indicative. And I'm curious what you too think. Save this country. Our country is dying. Our country is being destroyed by stupid people, by very stupid people. You once said that using the debt ceiling as a negotiating wedge just could not happen. You said that when you were in the Oval Office.

That's when I was president. So why is it different now that you're out of office? Because now I'm not president. Like, what are they clapping at? You know what I'm saying? Like that millions of people would lose their jobs if the Republicans are able to hold the country hostage, that there would be so many. Like our standing in the world would fall, our credit. Like, I'm just so confused about what these people are clapping up.

But Donald Trump is right. The country is being held hostage by stupid fucking people. I think what you're not getting here, Danielle, is that what Donald Trump did there was own the libs. Oh. And that's what they were clapping at. Yeah. Because that is the most important thing in the world is owning the libs. And that is the only way you become the Republican candidate for the presidency.

I hate him. That's it. I mean, again, it's like if he weren't running for president and if he weren't such an evil, awful person, like his timing is fantastic. Yes. Like just from a comedy perspective, the way he said that was gold. Yeah, because he's a fucking clown, but okay. Yeah, but unfortunately, you know, he's not at Grossinger's up in the Borsh belt.

Yes. The idea that you get a clap for rank hypocrisy because no one sees, especially what you pointed out, Daniel, like, they see none of these implications is just, it's so disheartening. Yeah. And never mind that that applause, as a producer, I'm like, that sounded a little too much like we were watching like a laugh in or like. You know, like family matters or something. Like, I'm like, Jesus Christ. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

It was a laugh track for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. Because he's such a fixture of this show, I felt I had to really dust this one off. This is Ron Johnson, not such a bright guy. And he says, yet again, quiet part loud, saying... So James Comer walked us through this web of LLCs that the Biden family created.

And money came from China and other adversarial countries, by the way. just China. But going into these LLCs and then from there, the money went from the LLCs to various Biden family members. What can you tell us about that? What were they getting paid for? Well, again, on the bank records, you're not going to see bribe to change this policy. You have to infer what's happening here. You have to take a look at the bulk of the evidence. You have to file the money and realize, so what did this Biden family member do to earn that amount of money. I mean, that's what we did with Hunter Biden and Ukraine. I mean, what did he know about oil and gas to be on the border of Burisma and knocked down about $4 million over the course of a number of

years? You have to infer. Another word for makeup. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Referring to James Comer, who's basically already said they have pretty much no case here. Yeah. You have to infer. My God. Do you know what's funny is that I think that Republican forget that while Donald Trump was president, four years, he oversaw, you know, he owned the Department of Justice, owned the Supreme Court. There was not one case that was filed against any of the Democrats that he had commanded be locked up. Why? Because he had no fucking case. So it's just like, all they do is blow a bunch of hot smoke because when they actually had the power and the ability, which they were weaponizing in so many different ways,

they didn't go for Biden. They didn't lock up Hillary Clinton because they had nothing. Yeah, but that was before the movie My Son Hunter came out and laid out the case. I can't even get through that with a straight face. Oh, my God. Andy, come on. You were just really calling out so that I tell everybody to read your letterbox review of it, which was so good.

Oh, thank you. No, I didn't even remember that I did that, but thank you. All right. So I was kind of sad. We didn't get to fully explore George Santos this week's show. But I got good news. He's already talking about his indictment that happened this week. I've been thinking a lot about a concept called the 12 stages of controversies. I've been trying to like formulate these like their stages of grief. And I think we're now entering for him, the one I like to call it, it's a good thing. My parents were working class people. My dad's a union worker. I'm a pro-union repubes. So, you know, you don't get a lot of folks with that mentality in Washington, D.C. I'm an openly gay Republican. You know, I think what I bring to the table transcends all the old school bickering of politics. And it's just like I'm a regular dude or maybe not so regular.

But I'm like a regular person that just contradicts a lot of the isms and narratives out there. And it pisses people off, both on the right and on the left. And I make no excuses for that. I think that's a superpower if you can. And every person when you enter politics, if you can have some sort of superpower so that you can have relevancy so that you can, you know, represent your constituents. Well, I think it works. So from the get-go, I was already always going to be a nuisance just for the simple fact that I went against the grain. I should say that's how he diverted away from answering a question about his charges.

He is a nuisance, but it is not for the reason. he thinks. And he is the very untalented Mr. Ripley with the talent that he brought is just not being able to tell the truth, not even, I believe, with a gun to his head. It's wild. I honestly, I can't wait for the documentary of him when he's after he's arrested and in jail and everything like that because he is, what did somebody say to me on Twitter? He is the inventing Anna of Congress. It's amazing. Like, what? goes on inside of his head and he says these lies with such conviction. It's insanity. It is DSM-4, like, diagnosable. He lies very easily. He's like he's a very fluid liar. He's not a very good liar

because there's nothing believable about him. It's just he does it naturally, but that doesn't make him good at it. And like, you just, you listen to him and you're like, I don't even believe that, You came from a working class background. I'm honestly not sure you're gay. As soon as he says something, like instantly, it's just like, well, I'm now skeptical, you know? So I just, he's just not good at it. And I mean, look, he was good enough to get elected. But let's face it, he's a Republican.

So, you know, low bar. Low bar. I will just say this. You know, we often complain about how would these politicians go to jail? that then they get a reality TV gig afterwards. This is the only time I've ever looked forward to it. Yeah, I mean, I want her to be an actual movie, and I want Guillermo Delacruz.

Oh, that's good. That's good. I forget the name of the actor, but Guillermo on what we do in the shadows. What we do in the shadows, yeah. I think should play him. Amazing. My guest today is a fellow Army veteran,

a former congressional candidate from Georgia, and the founder of a new organization called, mission democracy. Here to tell us about it is Marcus Flowers. Marcus, thanks so much for being here. Andy, thanks for having me. And also I want to, first of all, thank you for your service to this country as well, my friend. And you as well. So let's start with the obvious question. What is the mission of mission democracy? There are several parts of the mission of mission democracy. But the first part I want to start with is educating American voters about the dangers of extremism and the dangers that those extreme MAGA Republicans like Marjorie Taylor Green, like Jim Jordan,

like Scott Perry, Paul Gosar, there are several others that I could name, but those guys in particular, the dangers that they pose to Congress, to our nation, to democracy itself, their ineffectiveness in government. The fact that they don't want to get anything done, they just want to perpetuate these cultural wars. And another part of our mission, is to fund and support those who are willing to stand up and fight against them, kind of like I did in my fight against Marjorie Taylor Green and hold them accountable. And also, we're going to target those mega members of Congress and, again, hold the worst of the worst accountable for their actions. So who else is involved in mission democracy besides you? I was looking through the

roster that you've assembled. It seems like you're pretty heavy on national security experience. Those are people like myself, Olivia Troy, who's a former national security person, Denver Riggum, who was a part of the Freedom Caucus, also former veteran and national security person as well. You know, we got together and we all talked about the oath that we swore to this country, and that was to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America. And how fascism is starting to take hold in our country right now, you know, these authoritarian bent, People like Trump. And I don't know if you watch that town hall, if you can call it that, last night. I mean, he was basically doubling down on these ideals that are counter to everything that

we stand for in our form of American democracy. It was completely counter to who we are as a people, completely counter to what we should be working towards to be our best selves. And there are people like me who understand that we've got to go down to the local level and start educating people in these dangers of extremism and misinformation and disinformation. And we're bipartisan group that understands that democracy and our form of democracy in preserving that and preserving our institutions. It's what's important. I want to talk about a word you used. You know, we let people curse on this show and you use

the F word. You said fascism. You released your first ad last month. And it starts off by saying and the words are on the screen and being read by a narrator. It says, Roe v. Wade has been overturned and our government is held hostage by a band of politicians so extreme that only the word fascist describes them. And I was watching that and I was like, well, I guess that qualifies as coming out with a bang. It's the truth. Yeah. It's got to be stated in no uncertain terms, Andy. I mean, we're in a fight right now. We're in a fight as the president says for the soul of our nation. Again, and I hate to come back to this town hall that I watched last night. But watching people laughing, you know, kind of cheering Donald Trump. on as he's espousing these completely anti-American beliefs, doubling down on the fact, I mean, lying right out of the gate. Let me, let me start there with the election being stolen. I mean, I guess there was some pushback against that last night, but he kind of just rolled right past it and continued to lie. I mean, it was just a storm and a torrent of lies counter to everything we should be standing for. Yeah, you know, we talked about the fact that you are, you're an Army veteran

and I am as well, and we both served a while ago. But did you ever in your wildest dreams? And look, you can, you know, obviously people can argue with a particular mission of the military or a particular war or whatever. But did you ever in your wildest dreams imagine that democracy itself would become a partisan issue? Never, to put it simply. I mean, when I was 18 years old, I swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

And for me, that was about becoming part of a much larger fight. It was about preserving our democracy and helping grow democracies around the world. I truly felt like that's what I was doing. And for the next 27 years of my life, that's really what I did. You know, from combat zones in Iraq and Afghanistan to Sudan to the Balkans, you know, having the honor and privilege of negotiating on behalf of the United States with Iraqi and Afghan warlords, you know, I felt like I was a part of something much larger than me. I remember as a young soldier being stationed in Europe and walking down the street in any number of countries, Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, and seeing how people looked at us as Americans, always wanting to have those conversations with us.

And, you know, they just looked up to who we are. We've lost that standing. I go places now and I don't feel the same way. I don't have that same sense of pride and just being an American. And people, they want to talk. The first thing they want to talk about is our politics. Right. Of course.

That's the first thing they want to talk about. They don't want to talk about the culture and the movies that we watch and what's they're good to do in America right now or what's great places to visit. Politics is the first thing that they mention and how broken they think our political system is right now. And they see clear dangers. and they're wondering, you know, when's America going to take its place back and lead? That's what they're wondering now. And that's, in stark contrast from what I saw in the 90s and early 2000s.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's any way to even argue with that. Tell me more about mission democracy. You talked about how it's going to be involved in educating people and how, you know, that it's important to get down to the local level. Give me some, I guess, some concrete examples of what you foresee mission democracy doing? I mean, we've already really started doing it. We were in our first local ads in Marjorie Taylor Green's district talking about the dangers that she poses. And that's really a continuation of the battle that I fought with her in my race. The mission parameters are slightly different. The mission's still the same, just to hold them accountable. Again, educating in the district. I mean, our mission is not only to create viral videos and put out

ads. But this world that we live in right now, people live inside of echo chambers. We know that. It's about breaking outside of those echo chambers and reaching people where they are, meeting them where they are, talking to them about the dangers of misinformation, disinformation, and just extremism in general from some of our elected officials, holding them accountable. You know, as a candidate, I forced Marjorie Tayloring to come back to the district and fight. She wasn't all over the country, you know, helping spread this fascist movement. if you can say that. She had to come back and campaign. That's what we want to do throughout the country with all of these members. We've got to kill this dangerous ideology. I don't mean to be

argumentative, but let me ask you this. In the ad that you're talking about, you refer to Marjorie Telegreen as the avatar of these extremists, and you also call out by name some of the names you mentioned before, Matt Gates, Jim Jordan, Lauren Bobert, Paul Gosar, Scott Perry. And as you said, Marjorie Taylor Green is who you ran against and lost to in 2020. And you raised a good amount of money in that race and you lost by over 30 points, which is not a knock on you. It's just a statement of the political reality. So my question is, how will something like Mission Democracy running these ads help defeat someone like her who's in an R plus 22 district? That seems to be incredibly pro MAGA.

So if you look at my race against Marjorie Taylor Green, you stated I lost by 30 points. That is true. However, now let's look at the silver lining there. Democrats came out and voted in that general election in that district than ever before. We moved the needle by 10 points. Now, you'll also remember that there was a statewide race. Yes. For Senator, Senator Warnock, we played a not insignificant role in helping get Senator Warnock

through that general election. Absolutely agree. I mean, if you look at the numbers that he got in the general versus the runoff, when our team wasn't on the ballot, you could see the role that we played there. So we're extremely proud of that. That's where it matters, up and down ballot. We got those people out. We helped organized Democrats in that district to come out and fight, to come out and hold Marjorie Taylor Green accountable.

And it moved the needle enough to get that Senate seat. And we're proud of that work. And the work continues. You can't just throw up your hands and say, hey, because of gerrymandering, because of, you know, an extreme red district, we're not going to do anything. We're just going to sit back. You can't do that. You have to fight.

You have to keep doing the work. I totally agree. And I don't think there's any doubt that you helped Reverend Warnock get elected. And, you know, obviously that's a very, very good thing. I guess my question is more. We sometimes see the Democrats throw a lot of money at races. I'm forgetting her name, but the woman who. lost to Mitch McConnell got a ton of money nationally from Democrats.

I mean, McGrath. Yes, thank you very much. I sometimes worry that a lot of this money goes to races that are not winnable. And is that something that you're conscious of? Like, for example, Lauren Bobert had a close race in Colorado. And it would seem to me that throwing a lot of money there and putting a lot of ads on there could actually swing an election. And in other places, I agree, you can't just throw your hands up and you can't just say,

well, we're done, we surrender, you know, white flag. But do you differentiate between cases like that? Or is your mission to just sort of blanket all those potential fights? Hey, I don't see it as a zero-sum game. Okay. I see it as it's our responsibility to go out and fight everywhere. As a pack, we can't target every race. That's going to be impossible. You know, as a campaign, I was going to unseat Marjorie Taylor Green. I was doing what I and many people thought was the right thing to do, you know, holding her accountable, making her come back to the district and run it. And I'm going to support anyone who makes that tough decision to stand up against, you know, the extreme MAGA Republicans out there. Even if the district is heavily gerrymandered like Jim Jordan's district, like Marjorie Taylor Green's district, you've got to stand up and fight. Our democracy demands, competition. That is how you get the best representation, giving the people a choice, giving them a choice. Marjorie Taylor Green largely ran unopposed in her first campaign. People had a choice.

The people made that decision. That's democracy. That's how it works. That's how it's supposed to work. But that choice has got to be there. I think that's an excellent point. And I believe in the race before yours, the Democrat actually dropped out. I guess their name was still on the ballot, but they didn't even.

run. He dropped out and the secretary of state would not allow the Democrats to field another candidate. Yeah. I want to ask, you've got Republicans as part of mission democracy. You mentioned that you're bipartisan, which I think is great. But this seems to draw parallels, at least for some people, in some of the reading I was doing, with something like the Lincoln Project. What separates y'all from them? Again, and I think I stated it before, we're not just about creating viral videos. It's about educating people down at the local level, getting outside of those echo chambers like Twitter and certain spaces. We're going to talk to people locally and local papers and local media. We're going to get out on the ground and we're going to talk to people personally, just like I did

in my campaign. Our campaign knocked over 70,000 doors in the district. You've got to get out and do that work in order to reach people where they are. I'm not knocking any of the other PACs. In fact, I see them as mission partners in this venture, but we're going to drill down deep to talk to people where they are, not just in an echo chamber where, you know, you've got the home team advantage. Right. You've got to get out and have those tough conversations and educate. That's really where the rubber meets the road, and you've got to be willing to do that. And it's going to be hard work, but that work will make a difference, just like the work we did in my campaign made a difference up ballot.

Yeah, actually, I think that's an excellent answer. And I think that that's a particularly good way of separating yourself from something like the Lincoln Project. Look, I will say in all honesty, a lot of Democrats and people on the left in general don't think much of the Lincoln Project and consider it more of a vanity project, if not an outright grift that's made some people what, you know, Steve Schmidt, who was a member of the project called generational wealth. I know you're not them. And so this is not in the least bit an accusation. But I am curious what you would say to people who might be skeptical of mission democracy for the same reasons. And they might say, oh, this is just a way for the people involved to get rich and maybe raise their profiles. And that's really what they care about. I get the criticism, but it's not who I am. It's not who the people that the other principles in this pack are. You know, we're all national security professionals. Democracy and standing up and supporting the Constitution has been the work of our lives.

it's what it's about. What's important here is fighting for what we believe in. And what I believe in is that we have to come together to put down the threat that these extreme MAGA members of Congress posed our democracy. It's never been about money for me. If it was about money, I would have continued to do what I was doing before and retired from government service and been quite all right. You know, after 30 years, you know,

I was on my way out the door in the next 10 years, but I saw the dangers of misinformation, disinformation, and radicalization rearing its ugly head in the wake of George Floyd's murder. And, you know, on January 6th, what I saw there and Marjorie Taylor Green's part in it, made me resign my post as a government official on January 7th to get into this fight. That's what it's always been about for me, our democracy. That's the mission. I think I'll leave it there because that seems like a perfect way to get out. Thank you so much for coming on and best of luck with Mission Democracy.

And I hope that you all make the difference that you're looking to. We're definitely going to continue fighting. Thank you for having me, Andy. I appreciate it. Hope you enjoy checking out this episode of the new abnormal. We're back every Tuesday, Friday, and Sunday. If you enjoyed it, please share it with a friend and keep the conversation going. This podcast is a Daily Beast production with production by Jesse K.

Canon and Seamus Calder. Want more great listens? Check out our comedy podcast, The Last Laugh, and our star-studded The Daily Beast podcast at the Daily Beast.com slash podcasts. If you enjoyed this episode, consider becoming a Daily Beast subscriber. Subscribing is the best way to feed the beast

and support all of your podcasts as we cover what might become the darkest timeline. Head to the DailyBeast.com slash membership slash podcast and sign up today.