The Daily Beast Podcast - Getting ‘Canceled’ Is the Only Thing Conservatives Have Left

Episode Date: February 28, 2021

The theme this year, stupidly enough, is ‘America Uncanceled.’ But the only real way to get any kinda cred at the 2021 Conversative Political Action Conference, or CPAC, to make a stink about how you’ve totally been canceled. One easy way? Refuse to wear a mask, even though the host city and the hotel both require it. “We’ve seen these conservative influencers who, it seems, are deliberately getting kicked out of CPAC by not wearing a mask,” The Daily Beast’s Will Sommer tells Molly Jong-Fast on the latest episode of The New Abnormal. “Because for them, CPAC is sort of just the place to see and be seen. They don't really care if they get kicked out. I mean, they don't want to hurt their brand by wearing a mask. And so we've seen a lot of these guys [showcase] the video of the ceremonial ouster from CPAC.” “They're really against being canceled, but it actually seems like the culture of conservatives now—the merit badge is, you got canceled. Like, Marjorie Taylor Greeene is a celebrity now, because she got canceled,” adds producer Jesse Cannon.   But there’s a reason the CPAC posse is coalescing around cancelation. It’s because they can’t agree on much else. “The thing that I was really struck by, Jong-Fast says, “was that they're so light on policy… There's no nuts and bolts stuff.”  “The only policy discussion you hear at CPAC is when some lobbyist is clearly trying to plant something,” Sommer replies. “Theoretically, CPAC is supposed to be a bring[ing] together of the factions of the conservative movement. But this year I think everyone is so shell-shocked from 2020, they can't acknowledge that they lost. Because that would mean acknowledging that Trump lost. And everyone's just so terrified of Trump.” The only thing left to fill the space is the performative resistance.  “So, apparently, to get this hotel, [the CPAC organizers] had to promise that people would wear masks,” Sommer says. “But at the same time you're inviting the people who are least willing to wear masks, to celebrate often how much they hate masks. So you have speakers like Ted Cruz saying how dumb it is to wear masks.” Sommer adds, “So then occasionally in CPAC you have to have the organizers stand up and say, ‘we all love property rights, right?’ ‘Yeah!’ And they're like, ‘well, what about the right to have people a mask on your property?’ And everyone goes, ‘boooooo!!!’” Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to another Members Only Beast Inside episode of The Daily Beast, The New Abnormal. We thank you so much for being here. Hi there, I'm New Abnormal producer Jesse Cannon, and today we're going to have a really fun episode where Molly and I sit down to talk with the Daily Beast Will Summer about what in the hell is happening with all the craziness at CPAC.

Let's talk about CPAC, but first you and I need to talk about the very real, very disturbing phenomenon that we both experienced. CPAC, FOMO. And for those who don't know what FOMO means, it's the fear of missing out. We both admitted to each other right before we recorded this that we both had tins, pings, tinges,

tinges of wanting to be there. True? Yes, I mean, you know, I don't know if you want to call it Stockholm Syndrome over a couple years or what, but, you know, I think that, you know, yeah, you and I have both been there in the past. And really, for people who haven't been there in the past, like the CPAC experience,

About 5% of it is the speeches you can see online. The whole, the rest of it is the weird after parties, the exhibit booth, just all the weird. Like the people just acting weird in the hallways. Like that's really what I come to CPAC for. Unfortunately, obviously, there's a global pandemic and I did not want to catch the coronavirus. So when we say people acting weird in the hallways, is that things like Roger Stone dancing to a rapper singing that Trump won the election? Did you see that video? What was that video?

Yeah, I mean, so Roger Stone, I guess. I don't know if he had planned this or just encountered this guy, but he runs into a sort of one of the, one of many sort of MAGA rappers outside of Seaback and Roger Stone. Hold on that detail. Many MAGA rappers? Not just one? I would think there would only be one.

I didn't know there were more than one. I can stress enough how many MAGA rappers there are. Wait, really? That's a real thing? I can think of, I mean, I think there's at least a dozen. Wow. You know. Well, all I'm saying is this is, you and I might be working on something together,

and it's going to definitely be documenting that. I think that would be a great episode. I mean, there's, yeah, I mean, they really just have a thriving industry. And so one of these MAGA rappers is, you know, kind of doing his rap. And then Roger Stone is sort of in his full, like, Babaduke style. kind of like the hype man, like flavor flave to this guy. Yeah, I really didn't have that feeling that like when everybody's like, oh, he's the penguin, oh, he's the Joker or whatever.

I'm like, flavor, flave, who knew? That's really what he is. It's baffling. I mean, the thing about really the stuff outside of CPAC is where you start to really feel it. I don't know if you saw there was a Trump float. Dave Weigel from The Washington Post is there, as are like three other journalists. now. It's a small, I mean, it must be, it's a much smaller crew this year because it's in Florida. And, um, but some of the pictures he's posted have been incredible, including the Trump unity

trailer getting towed by the police. It's, I mean, the whole thing is incredible. I mean, it definitely is sort of a toned down CPAC this year. I think you can tell that the audience is a lot smaller as well. And just like the vibe, there's, there's fewer big names. I mean, Marco Rubio just dropped out. Was Marco canceled or did he cancel? He's, as far as we know, he canceled. I would find it unlikely. I don't think CPAC would cancel on him. Right. Of course, he did this right after Paul Gossar, who was supposed to follow him, you know, to be around him on the schedule. Another congressman went to this sort of white nationalist event next to CPAC. And I don't. The night before. Right. And I don't know if that played into it, but, you know, it could have. Can we talk about, so this happened last

CPAC, too. Can you explain what this white nationalist event is? Sure. So this is a group called, they call themselves America first. They're kind of based around this young guy, this guy in his 20s named Nick Fuentes, who's sort of this white nationalist leader, really a nasty character. I mean, he marched in Charlottesville. So these guys are, you know, he was at the riot, though he claims he didn't enter the capital. They're basically, I mean, they're basically white nationalist, white supremacists who try to avoid saying, that explicitly in an attempt to essentially infiltrate the GOP. You know, unfortunately, they've managed to recruit some people to their cause.

Columnist Michelle Malkin is sort of, they call her like their mother, essentially. Wasn't she always sort of a white nationalist, though? Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, look, I think like 10 to 15 years ago, she wrote a book defending internment camps. So obviously, you know, it's not like she's had awesome politics before. Can you just explain a little bit about Michelle Malkin? Sure. So Michelle Malkins was this kind of long, long running conservative columnist. Certainly, I mean, going back to the George W. Bush era, she was a big deal. She's on Fox News a lot.

And she kind of was like right at the, like kind of dancing on the fringe before you can't go on Fox News anymore or you lose your book deals. And then with the rise of this America First group, she, I mean, her whole thing was really like being a hard line against immigration. And with this, she kind of stepped over the line. and, like, you know, she got booted out of a conservative speaker's group and this kind of stuff. And now she's really kind of all in on being kind of this hero to these white nationalists who are trying to take over the Republican Party. It seems like there's been a lot of people who've dropped off of speaking here or been canceled. Yet you're supposed to be really against canceling is the whole theme of the thing. Can you talk to us about what's happening there?

Sure. So this year's theme of CPAC is America uncanceled, right? So cancellation is over. we're bringing back America. But of course, every year with CPAC, there's kind of like, every year you can expect something to happen. And one of the things that happens is that it turns out

that CPAC has invited just a total, like, extremist nut that they're going to have to kick off the platform. This happens every year. Absolutely. And so this year, they invited a guy named Young Pharaoh, who's sort of like a hard-right, you know, like a black activist, like very concerned.

and really, I mean, very relevant for CPAC. I mean, he really does not like Jewish people. And so he had all these kind of... Yeah, exactly. So he had all these tweets about, you know, how much he doesn't like Jews and how, you know, being Jewish is like a fake religion. And so this was pretty embarrassing to CPAC when it came out. And as a Jew, one of the weird things CPAC does is they are, they are like obsessed with Judaism, right?

Like there's Jewish prayers. There's Judaism, Judaism, Judaism, Judaism in the schedule. And because of this like Israel Holy Land stuff. And I know you sat through that interview with the former Israeli ambassador, right? Today, that weird interview where he was interviewed about the Abraham Accords, which I don't, where they, this amazing idea that the Trump administration has brought peace to the Middle East is like one of my favorite weird Trumpy trope. Yeah, I always get a kick out of that Because, you know, I mean, when Trump was in office and it would be like, okay, the UAE, you know, is signing some accord and Morocco and stuff. And it's like, I mean, those countries were not at war with Israel.

People are like, you know, there was blood in the sand and we solved it. I mean, you know, it's just so bizarre that and they've given them this name, the Abraham Accords that sounds, you know, so weighty. Yeah, it's bizarre. But the idea is basically Jared is Jewish. Right, right. These people are canceling, they're dropping up, but the other strange thing you were saying is that they're actually kicking people out for not wearing masks. Yeah, so this is this weird tension in CPAC because on one hand, so apparently to get this hotel, they had to promise that people would wear masks except when they're speaking. Which is a hard left.

Go on, sorry. So they said this, but at the same time you're inviting perhaps, you know, the people who least are willing. willing to wear masks to celebrate often how much they hate masks. And so, you know, you have speakers like Ted Cruz saying how dumb it is to wear masks. And then, but the crowd, and they're saying, well, I don't want to wear masks. And Will Turton from Bloomberg, one of the reporters there, he witnessed people just totally ignoring the security guards. He claims he saw a woman coughed at a security guard who told her to wear a mask. And so then occasionally in CPAC, you have to have the organizers stand up and say, oh, you know, we all love property rights, right?

And everyone goes, yeah. And they're like, well, what about the right to have people wear a mask on your property? And everyone goes, boo! So this is very controversial. Oh, man. Yeah, that was an amazing little speech where they came out like hostages, the two sort of, I felt so bad for them, actually, these sort of two people who work behind the scenes in CPAC, and they said, you know, this is a private establishment.

They tried so hard, and then people just booed. They're really in a tough spot. And we've seen these conservative influencers who almost, it seems, are deliberately getting kicked out of CPAC by not wearing a mask. Because for them, I mean, CPAC is sort of just the place to be seen and be seen. They don't really care if they get kicked out. I mean, they don't want to hurt their brand by wearing a mask. And so we've seen a lot of these guys say, oh, you know, they kind of get the video.

of the ceremonial ouster from CPAC. I think that this is becoming the funny thing is that, like, they're really against being canceled, but it's actually seemed like the culture of conservatives now is, like, the merit badge is like, you got canceled. Like, Marjorie Taylor Green's a celebrity now because she got canceled. I saw this picture of people waiting to take pictures with Marjorie Taylor Green, which I just thought was kind of amazing because she's probably the least powerful woman in Congress.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, she's literally. literally like the least powerful member of Congress because she's not on any committees now. But yeah, I mean, certainly, you know, they even stretch towards claiming they've been canceled when they haven't been canceled in any way. Like this pro-Marjorie Taylor Green website claimed that she had been disinvited from CPAC. And sort of when you dig into it, it was that they didn't give her a speaking slot. Well, I mean, you know, that's a pretty low bar.

But they were saying, oh, you know, CPAC has turned on Marjorie Taylor Green. The thing that I was really struck by, and we've only seen two days of this, was two things. One was that they're so light on policy. Like, you never hear anyone, I mean, except for, like, they want, you know, the right one, the left wants to take away your guns, the left wants to kill your babies, you know. But they don't ever say, like, you know, minimum wage or there's no sort of nuts and bold stuff, which I think is interesting. And then the other thing is that it really is reliance.

on this idea that the left is really dangerous. Yeah, I mean, the only policy discussion you hear at CPAC is when some lobbyist is clearly trying to, like, plant something. I mean, we know that. Or the heritage. Yeah, I mean, it's very like, oh, suddenly there's this panel on an issue I've never heard of. Oh, and what a coincidence. This person is a big donor to CPAC. That's right.

Yeah, I mean, no, really it is the, you know, theoretically, CPAC is supposed to be, you know, kind of we bring together the factions of the conservative movement and they kind of hash it out. But this year, I think everyone is number one. So shell shocked from 2020 and they're unable to, they can't acknowledge that they lost because that would mean acknowledging that Trump lost. And then everyone's just so terrified of Trump. And so he's speaking on the final night. So it seems like there's a lot of like, I don't want to say something that maybe Trump takes bad. I mean, you know, there's a lot of talk that he's going to denounce Kevin McCarthy, the minority leader in the house, for not bowing to him enough.

Yeah, there is definitely undercurrent of fear, which is really strange and interesting. And then there are, the weird CPAC has made all these deals with Korea and Japan. Yes, yes. I mean, and so this is kind of what we're getting into with, like, the sense of, like, someone who's getting paid here, like, what's the payoff? Right, so there's, CEPAC has, like, alliances with the, there's a Korean CPAC, I believe now at Japanese CPAC.

And these are kind of like these sister groups, Matt Schlapp that head of the, of CPAC has sort of been involved in creating. And there's just a lot of like, kind of what's the weird influence play going on? It's kind of like with the epoch times, which is the newspaper run by this Chinese dissident group that's very pro-Trump.

And in that case, it's kind of like, okay, they're trying to win Americans over to kind of their specific cause in China. In this case, I mean, there's all these, like, kind of weird characters from Japan in particular. there's a guy who calls himself a samurai futurist and says that Donald Trump is like the ultimate samurai. And can you explain that to me? Because I've watched that ad like 15 times and it still doesn't make any sense to me.

He's a cult leader, right? I think this may be two separate guys from Japan. Oh, okay. That's a different guy. Just before we spoke. I would just want to make sure we were right on there. Because I think the samurai futurist guy is just like, like, you know it's great when you look this guy, when you look up a guy on Google.

And the first result is he's a, he's a war crimes denier. So, I mean, so these are the kind of guys who are kind of like, kind of the stars of CEPAC this year, really, because so many of the main Republicans have decided to skip it. And also the NRA is out of business. Right, right. The NRA, they're trying to, you know,

kind of recoup whatever money they can. And so there's just like kind of a weird, certainly in the past C PACs I had been to, were during the Trump administration. And in those times, you can really feel that kind of like the influence peddling is going on, a lot of monies pouring into CPAC. And this time was kind of like, you know, just the heart wasn't in it. Even like kind of the Groyper's, the Nick Fuentes crew,

a couple of them tried to sneak in and they loved to kind of be chased by the security guards. And they were like, it felt very perfunctory. Man, I will say this. If I had been to the career fair and I could see war crimes denier was on the menu, I would not have chosen podcast producer. I don't think war crimes denier is quite enough. I don't think that's a career. I think that's just an element.

Gotcha, gotcha. It did strike me as very low energy, too. Like, these people were just couldn't get excited, you know, that people weren't excited. But Fox Nation still, and the Beast had a really good piece about this by Lloyd Grove and Co. They actually paid $250,000. They're like one of the big underwriters of the event. Yeah, Fox Nation is such a weird little creature to me.

I mean, so this is Fox's sort of online streaming service. It's Fox's answer to Disney Plus or Netflix. But in this case, but instead of, you know, Wanda Vision or something like that, you get Steve Ducey goes to America's national parks. That's right. Or castles. Yeah, the signature, I mean, okay, Paula Dean is on Fox Nation. I mean, it's such an odd little place.

A big thing, as you mentioned, Molly, is they go to, like, they just, they do it like a category. So it'll be like, okay, we're going to all of America's greatest stadiums or the greatest national parks or, like, big, big factories and stuff. And I mean, the obvious thing that's going on here is those are super cheap to make. All you have to do is move like 12 people around the country. And so that's the kind of material you get on, you get on Fox Nation and incredibly lurid true crime. Two crimes good for ratings. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, they have Nancy Grace, for example.

Oh. So I want to take us back to CPAC. So one of the things I thought we saw a lot of was just this total fantasy world that these people live in, and particularly one of the big themes that Molly and I were joking about. That was so funny is that all they do is rail against big tech, ignoring the fact that the conservative movement is solely propped up by big tech, letting them. Facebook.

Yeah, by Facebook letting them be propped up with everything they do to keep conservatives being read all day. What do you think about that? Right. I mean, right, there is this kind of this constant sort of self-victimization that conservatives do where they say, oh my gosh, Facebook, Google, Twitter, they're all after us. But you see these daily, weekly lists of the top pages on Facebook. And it's like Dan Von Gino is five out of ten. Right.

And the rest is Ben Shapiro. Right. And so it is. is this very weird idea. I mean, certainly the platforms appear to like them because they they keep people engaged and they kind of get people riled up. But, you know, I mean, we had some representation at CPAC this year from kind of the off-brand social media networks.

I don't think. What is that thing called? Yeah. Freedom tube? Right. So there was Freedom Tube, which is weirdly like a bunch, like, it's sort of like a knockoff of each one. so it's like Freedom Tube, Freedom Book,

like Freedom Twitter, essentially. It's sick of being, I mean, you really see that, like, writers and artists are not conservatives, right? If the best you can come up with is Freedom Tube. I mean, it really is right there. And then there was the, there was another one called Clout Hub,

which is run by a guy whose name is Jeff Brain. Oh, yes. And we're just making fun of him. And Jeff Brain gets up there and he does his speech. But Jeff, like, the key thing is, if you're promoting your company, you need to learn how to pronounce its name. And so Jeff Brain was saying, so it's called Clout Hub. But I think he may he doesn't know Clout because it's kind of like a slang term for like social media prominence. And he was saying, he was saying, that's why you got to go on cloud. And so everyone, I'm watching

the CPAC chat and everyone's going like, it's called Clouded. Like, what am I supposed to check out? It is amazing. And the My Pillow, I was watching it on right, on the right stuff. Is that what it's called? Right side broadcasting. Right side broadcasting, which is like, seems to be largely sponsored by the My Pillow News Network. Is that what it is? I mean, basically, it was not always that case, but he certainly has, you know, just like he has with, like, frankly, you know, Tucker Carlson, the ads on there.

I mean, it is the My Pillow show. And so, you know, you're watching CPAC. and a quarter of your screen is just Mike Lindell, just embracing this pillow. It's so silly. I mean, can we talk a little bit about the, all of the weird accoutrements that we saw, like the golden Trump statue,

which was made in Mexico? Absolutely. Yeah, so, I mean, for me, I think the defining image of this CPAC, at least so far, is this image of a giant, kind of like a Bart Simpson, Trump being this golden Trump idol being wheeled into CPAC.

Do we think he hugs it like he hugged the flag this time? Well, you know, it's a pretty like, if it weren't for kind of like the, you know, it was made with love and stuff. I mean, people were saying like, you'd be executed if you made the leader look like he's wearing like board shorts and he looks very like, like, cowabunga man. Yeah, I, he's wearing, I have trouble imagining Donald Trump and flip flops. Like that struck me as a bit odd. Yeah.

So, you know, as you mentioned, it was made by, I think, a Trump enthusiast or sort of an American expat in Mexico and then sort of shipped up here. And he claims he's working on a silver version for the Trump library. So this may not be the last we see of cool Trump. But it is the first time anyone has brought up the Trump library unironically. Yes. Oh, man. Right. I mean, he's working at it for the Trump.

Nobody has mentioned this. Trump Library. Actually, though, Trump did say he was going to raise like $2 billion for it. Well, I think the big thing with the Trump Library, actually, is that the only thing I've heard about it is conservatives angry that there will be, you know, it will be open to historians and researchers and just this sense that like, that like essentially he needs to destroy all the documents and it should sort of be this just monument to Trump in the way that the Nixon Library was for a while. Let's talk about the 20. I mean, even though this thing was such a

joke, there still were 2024 candidates who popped up. Absolutely. Yeah. So we had a, you know, we had a lot of people. We had Ted Cruz, um, who kind of got up there and did sort of a riff on Cancun. And he said, um, you know, oh, Florida is nice, but oh, I wish I was in Cancun. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Yeah, that struck me.

Did, could you tell what the feeling was there? It is. I have to say, I mean, the see back crowd is smaller this year. But it does sound like just a lot of people are bombing. Right. That's what it sounded like to me, but I couldn't tell because I'm not there. Right. So it's hard for us to know just from the live streams. But so Ted Cruz gets up and he does his kind of, you know, Ted Cruz, you know, pop culture hour where he goes, you know, he's like, oh, I'm mixing my Star Trek and Star Wars metaphors and, you know, crickets from the crowd. Similarly, you know, if I should even, you know, I cringe to consider him a 2024 candidate. But Dom Jr. gets up there and and does his thing and, and, and, And the crowd, again, I, you know, I feel like you need original formula Trump.

Even Don Jr. was not really getting a lot of love from the crowd. It seemed like that speech got cut very short. Yes, I think that's right. It was very abrupt. It felt like him and both and Kimberly Guilfoyle, who came out with all these kind of fireworks. It felt very sort of like, you know, we have to let them up. She ended with that best as yet to come screaming thing, which I guess is now her signature. But at least it felt like she had a speech delivered, whereas when he got up there and he

started talking about, he had this line where he was like, speaking of bombing Syria, have you seen Liz Cheney's poll numbers? Yes. Yeah, he clearly, he botched the joke, right? He should say, just bombing, not bombing Syria. And then he kind of tried to salvage it. It's like the Cheney family loves to bomb the Middle East. It's, yeah, I don't think he'll be at the laugh factory anytime.

It's funny, though, because I, I mean, I don't want to get two in the weeds here, but it is interesting to me. Trump Jr. is very anti-war in this strange way. And it's like completely in Congress with the rest of the party. To some extent, right? I mean, I think they're very into telling people that they're anti-war and then sort of hyping up any sort of military action taken by Democrats, downplaying anything by Republicans. I mean, I think certainly in, you know, there is this, this weird kind of, this is the way that I think the Trump people break. with the history of the Republican Party is by saying, well, those were the war guys, like GW Bush, that's not us. And that's how they kind of try to get a clean slate. And then, you know, other 2024 people we saw, we saw Christy Knoem, of course, you know, South Dakota. She kind of, you know, did her thing. Mike Pompeo was there. I mean, really, I guess what struck

me after four years of Trump is how little personality a lot of these people have and how just kind of just how flat so many of the performances felt. I was pretty shocked by Pompeo because he, I always think of him as like just a blow hard. And he was, he really does think he has a real shot at 2024. Yeah, it's very weird to see these people who will definitely not be president and will, I'd be surprised if they win a state, even if Trump doesn't win, doesn't run. And it is strange these, it's sort of like, well, I don't know, dude, Maybe you could have been president, like, in the 80s or the 70s.

You just have to, you have to build, bring a little more flash. He almost feels like he's from another time. You do see, like, Christy Knoem, I thought she was sort of sanitized. Like, I mean, I don't know that the Republican Party is there anymore, but you could see how she could run like a Mitt Romney, right? I mean, I'm, this is no endorsement of her at all. I think she's just awful. But she does have really good arms. But where, but it feels like a mom, Mike Pompeo who's like bombastic and obnoxious, but, but not charismatic.

It just is the worst of both worlds. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think what Chrissy, Christy Noem brings to it is that, you know, the Trump people love her because she was so irresponsible with the coronavirus. Right. And then, but she's not badly known enough. She sort of doesn't have this negative reputation, I think. with the rest of the country widely enough that I think she could say, well, you know, I'm a governor and all this stuff. And I think potentially would would have it.

Because basically what the Trump people want is they want to know that you're like really willing to, willing to risk it all for Trumpism. And I think certainly she has that credibility in a way that someone like Nikki Haley does not. She's been very kind of like Trumpy in a certain way. But it does feel, right, and the guns. But it does feel like, and I'm curious to know if, if I, if I'm. I'm, if this is just wishful thinking on my part, it does feel like there is no air apparent. Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I mean, I think Don Jr. seems a little undisciplined up there.

Although, you know, I don't know that Trump is necessarily a model of discipline himself. But yeah, I mean, that's exactly right. I think there's a lot of people who would like to sort of go back to maybe the pre-Trump 2016 race, where, you know, you have Ted Cruz, you know, obviously Ron DeSantis is potentially going to run. in that it's more of a wide open field. But at this point, I think it really is just going to depend on whether Trump gets in or whether he annoys someone. But can we talk about the Clubhouse talk that was happening? Sure.

So Clubhouse is this weird little app, right? And it's invite only right now. It's only on iPhones. And it's supposed to be like kind of the big Silicon Valley hot app. And it's basically it's like an audio chat. Right. Right. And I've always found it very weird.

off-putting. It's sort of like, okay, am I just going to sit around on my phone and like listen to people talk about Bitcoin for a couple hours? It's a lot of Bitcoin talk on Clubhouse. Yeah, even the rooms that aren't supposed to be Bitcoin. And then some guy gets in and talks about his Bitcoin. Exactly. But on this app, we discovered today a, this strange little room that was CPAC Hot Takes, which was Matt Gates being interviewed by Chuck Johnson, the white supremacist. Yeah, it's a very, because Clubhouse hasn't, to the best of my knowledge, been banning a lot of these far-right figures who have been banned long ago from Twitter, from Facebook, from

Instagram, it's really become a hotspot for people like Jacob Wall or Ali Alexander, one of the organizers of January 6th, or someone like Chuck Johnson, who has sort of emerged from obscurity to come back, and now he's paling around with someone like Matt Gates on Clubhouse. So really, I mean, yeah, it's a very weird. seen, you know, the way that these people are able to interact with, you know, elected officials. Yeah, it's, it's like Matt Gates did invite Charles Johnson to the state of the union once. Right, exactly. And then, you know, his comments, you know, that appeared to be denying the Holocaust resurfaced. And obviously, Matt Gates took a lot of heat for that. So it's a very,

I guess, Clubhouse is just in this kind of weird situation where they're very kind of like, quote unquote, free speech. And, you know, where the, you know, where the, it's a very, We're the rationalists and we kind of like anything goes on Clubhouse. And of course, I think a lot of right-wing characters are taking advantage of that. I was listening to this conversation. And Matt Gates is much smoother than Trump. Yeah, I mean, I think that's right. I think he's certainly more disciplined.

I think in terms of his, he definitely gets up there and does the speech. It looks more like obviously a normal politician speech while also sort of throwing out debate to the Trumpist people that they know that, you know, Matt Gates obviously is on their side. So, you know, I think he's one to watch for sure. Especially if we watch and see Trump say that he should be the minority leader tomorrow in his speech. Oh, is he going to say that? I mean, there's the report that he's going to call for Kevin McCarthy's head if McCarthy doesn't bow down enough. And, you know, Kevin McCarthy is putting, betting his house that they're going to win back the house in 2022.

So my favorite conservative meme every time this comes up is that you don't have to be a member of member of the house to be to be. to be speaker. And so every time it's like before Rush Limbaugh died, it was like Rush Limbaugh should be the speaker of the house or like Mark Levine, like he'll lawyer them to death or like Sean Hannity. And it's, you know, I have seen some talk,

you know, not very credible talk, but of like we should make Trump the speaker of the house if we win in 2022 and then he'll impeach Biden. Oh, God. No, I don't think they'll ever do it. They're not, they're not organized. I mean, the thing that you see again and again, and you see this today and that it's,

there are some very, very scary people on Trump's Republican Party, but there are a lot of very, very disorganized people in Trump's Republican Party. In the idea that, you know, the reason this never happens is because people in the house want to be Speaker of the House. Yes. Or they, you know, they don't want to just be like, oh, I guess we'll outsource it. We'll just make Tucker Carlson the speaker, sure. On that note, we'll wrap this episode of the new abnormal from The Daily Beast.

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