The Daily Beast Podcast - Ghislaine May Be Helping FBI Expose Epstein Elites

Episode Date: July 6, 2025

Tara Palmeri joins Joanna Coles to unravel the dark machinery behind Jeffrey Epstein’s rise—from math teacher to multimillionaire mogul with ties to the FBI, CIA, and America’s elite. Palmeri, who spent two years investigating Epstein, claims the financier acted as an informant for the feds, traded in secrets, and used kompromat to build both his fortune and his immunity. She debunks the myth of a client “list,” but reports that prosecutors hold photos and video evidence too explosive to release. Ghislaine Maxwell, she believes, may have some further cards to play that are related to her case. Palmeri also shares heartbreaking insights from survivors like Virginia Giuffre, and why the story’s true horror isn’t in the conspiracies—but in how the victims were forgotten. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Based on everything I've learned and heard about Jeffrey Epstein from the many people who have spent a lot of time with him. I do not believe he's a type of man to kill himself. Pam Bondi, if you're listening, it's down to you. I'm Joanna Cole's Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast. This is the Daily Beast. And today we have an intriguing guest. She is a one-woman media empire, Tara Palmieri. She has the red letter, her substack, and the Tara Palmieri show, which is her podcast.

where she interviews Congress people and celebs who are interested in politics. She also did a podcast called Broken Jeffrey Epstein, which I still find intriguing. And I have so many questions for her, like, was he murdered or did he really kill himself, that old chestnut? Anyway, no time to waste. Let's get into it. Tara, thank you for joining us. Tara Parmieri, I'm so excited to have you here. you branched out on your own. You have worked for Politico, ABC, Puck, and now you're working for yourself.

You've gone independent. Explain exactly the perimeters of your empire. Thanks. I wouldn't call an empire just yet, but I appreciate that one day. I just thought to myself that if there was ever a moment to go independent, it would be right now to start my own media company.

People are choosing people. people over institutions. They are choosing influencers over institutions. They are choosing individual journalists over institutions. There is a general distrust. And I think the more that the people who are reading your news or reading your scoops know about you, the more trust that you build. I think a lot of people read the news and they see a byline, but they don't know that person behind the byline. They don't know anything about them. They don't even know if they should trust them. But if you are an independent news journalist, you can have a bias and you can say I don't like the trial. Here is my bias.

Here is my bias. Exactly. Take it or leave it. Or I'm not coming in that direction. I'm coming as a nonpartisan journalist, which makes it difficult, frankly, because I think a lot of people go to the internet to self-soothe with voices that tell them what they want to hear. And, I mean, sometimes I'll go on a show and I'm on with a personality who is considered a, you know, first. to the left door and they'll say, you're MAGA because I've reported on Trump's relationship with Stephen Miller and how it's more complicated than people think. Or I go on a voice on with a

person who represents the right and they think you're left. And so it's really hard to win anyone over. And I think ultimately what I'm trying to do is just present my information, build a relationship based on trust. That's all we have. And in so many ways, the journalism community has lost that. And so I do think there is an opportunity to try to rebuild the trust with our audience. And I do think it's through individuals. And I think it's through allowing people to understand who the messenger is. But isn't the advantage of institutions that actually they serve that up? Because most people don't have time to do that. I mean, in my wildest dreams, I would love to sit down and read 30 different influences before I start the day, just so I have a kind of, you know,

a variety of opinion. But in fact, the point about the news, New York Times or the point about the Daily Beast is they do it for me. Totally. And that's why I subscribe to the Daily Beast and the New York Times. Excellent. No, I do. I'm glad you're subscribed. And I listen to your podcast.

I listen to Kara Swisher at Pivot. I listen to I love the turning points crowd. I like to listen. I listen to Megan Kelly sometimes. I listen to Ben Shapiro. I like to listen to people on the right too. And I want to hear how they defend Trump. It's hard to listen to Megan Kelly.

No, but I think it's, yes. but sometimes that's interesting for me to hear how she defends Trump and how they're spinning it. Do you even believe Megan Kelly? I mean, Megan Kelly used to be this sort of liberal, and now I feel like it's all performance. That she doesn't believe a word of it.

Yeah. I mean, I just think she knows. I don't think she believes a word of it. She's just found a niche, and she's very good at promoting that niche, but it just doesn't feel like the real Megan Kelly at all who lives on the Upper West Side, sends her children to private,

school and seems, you know, thoroughly at ease with her now lucrative life. Listen, you could very well be right. It's certainly a lot easier to make it in this game by serving up red meat over and over again as an attractive woman. And, you know, I'm sure her audience is male men who used to watch cable news. They watch her now. She is extremely expressive and angry. And she reflects their views except in the form of a beautiful woman.

and she serves up red meat that you're not going to hear from a lot of women. And that is, I'm sure, enticing. I don't know. I feel like there's a whole ton of women of women who serve up red meat. I mean, there's, you know, Lauren Boba and Marjorie Taylor Green, who are obviously politicians. But I don't know. I feel like Laura Ingram, there's a whole channel devoted to them on Fox News. Right.

I mean, Megan has so many hours, though, between Syria. She's on YouTube. That's the other thing that you... Well, she's a bit like Law and Order now. There's just, you're never knowingly an hour away from a new show. Right. Or a rerun of it. Exactly.

She's on all of these different platforms. The other thing is that the YouTube audience is actually getting older. I mean, I go home and I see my father and he's, you know, he's on 70. Yeah, he's 70, but it's like a 65 plus crowd that watched it on their TV. Like it's TV going from show to show to show. And so she sort of dominates that. that I do think there, I do think at times it's disingenuous, the outrage. And I do wonder sometimes, you know, how can you bring on Mark Halperin, for example,

who has been accused of, you know, sexual harassment of so many women that I've worked with personally in my career. And I'm like, why is he getting a second shot? And on your network, especially considering what you had to go through at Fox. So that's sort of upsetting for me personally because I, I saw. Did you work with Mark? I didn't. I came after him at ABC, but I saw the wreckage. I saw what that kind of personality can do.

And the women that I spoke to and some of the men that also knew about it, I mean, he was only choosing women who were so junior. The type of women that are like, they have no power when a political director is coming on to them like that. It can make them choose to never be in the business. It can ruin their careers. And they're not going to go to HR. I mean, who has the guts to do that in the beginning of their career? I don't like to see this.

And then I see it on a woman basically giving him a pass. It's just, it's sort of upsetting. Okay, well, it's a good, interesting time to talk about it because we just had the Diddy verdict. You spent some time doing a podcast on Jeffrey Epstein. Yes. What is your whole view of the Me Too movement now, then? I think men are now the victims.

And women are, it's just changed so much. Women, they're constantly questioned. Men are getting second passes. I mean, I think the fact that President Trump was reelected, and also just sort of, it invalidates the movement in a lot of ways. And I don't think, I don't think that people are really interested in hearing about the trauma of women anymore in the same way that they did before. It really have to break through. The story of power imbalance, it just doesn't break through clearly how people are abusing their power.

And that is the common denominator in all of these stories, right? And rape and it's all about power. Sexual harassment is all about power. Those men could be with women who are on their level, but they don't. They go for women who are powerless. And that's the common denominator. We published the Jeffrey Epstein tapes, which I thought might have impacted the election. Yeah.

I mean, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump, as you know, because you've done a podcast on him, we're very good friends. And we had tapes through the author Michael Wolf of Jeffrey Epstein talking about Donald Trump, which were fascinating. It was fascinating to get an insight into Epstein and hear his voice, but it was also fascinating to hear him on Donald Trump. And the maneuver the two of them would pull together when they went out to pick up women at casinos in Atlantic City. Right, right.

Yeah. He always gave his aunt and mother a room in his casinos whenever they went down there. He would always hook up the Epstein family, Trump. It is a weird relationship, right? Although Trump was ready to turn on Epstein when he had a chance because of real estate, not over the women. Right. It was just the part that really is the most upsetting. I mean, people want the smoking gun, right, that connects Trump to Jeffrey Epstein and the underage girls.

but I think at the same time he was obviously so aware of it that he had these young girls around I mean even according to a lawyer that subpoenaed Trump he told me that, you know, Epstein had told him he's in a Big Brother program and that's why there were these young girls in his, at his pool,

and Big Brother, Big Sister program. And it's like... I don't think it was that kind of big girl that everybody was expected. Right, right, right. And it's like at that point, when do you start to think that the people around Epstein, these high-flying people, like, why did they all look away for so long?

I mean, do they own, they own some of the guilt too. What did you think, what did you think at the end of your podcast on him? What did you, what were your conclusions about Epstein? I think he's a sick individual. I think he was using that information as compromise to build his business, so he made to get money. I think he traded in secrets. I think that he was helpful to agencies within the U.S. I don't know.

I can't confirm abroad, but I think that he also... What do you mean he was helpful to agents? Well, we know that he was an FBI informant at the very least. A lot of people are, but we know he was an FBI informant that was factored into his sweetheart deal. I love the way you just throw that out there. A lot of people are. I don't know people who are FBI informants.

Well, at least I'm hoping that none of my close group of friends are FBI informants. Yeah, you're right. But, I mean, he was literally spending... You have lots of friends who are FBI informants. I know a lot of people in law enforcement, just probably because of being a reporter. That's different to being an FBI informant. That's true. That's true. That is true. You're right. I don't think I realized Jeffrey Epstein was an FBI informant.

I mean, I'm not an expert on Epstein in any way. I didn't realize he was an FBI informant. So he was informing on all the people that came to his house and had dinners and things. I don't know that he was necessarily doing it based on the sex trafficking angle of it. But, you know, he was obviously traveling all over the world. world with the wealthiest people in the world and he had information and when they were putting together that sweetheart deal he had given them information as part of the deal so that he got off i mean he was literally in a county jail and got to go into his office right it was basically house arrest with an

ankle bracelet right so he spent the nights in jail in florida and we also know that he had meetings with the fbi in his schedule that were found and we know that he met with bill bar according to bill bar's schedule at least three times and when he was the deputy FBI director I'm sorry, deputy CIA director. So he has, you know, he had, we know that he has at least met with the CIA, a CIA and the FBI, and that he had given FBI tips. I, you know, through my reporting, had heard about this as well, but I, it's, you know, these are meetings. So it's hard to say. Right.

Exactly. Exactly. There's a, the problem in this story is there is just so much conspiracy. So I try to play in the land of facts. as best as possible, although I have spoken to so many of the survivors. I was really close with Virginia Joufrey. I mean, I spoke to her months before she died in February, and there's a new story in the Times of London right now

about the final months of her life. And I didn't really feel comfortable saying this because we had created this friendship, but it seems that her family wants it out there. But, you know, she wrote about her husband abusing her and that she really lived this really difficult life. and she opened up to me about that too. And I didn't feel comfortable sharing that because of for the fact that it is her personal story.

And it wasn't really something that she broadcasted herself. Her family wants it out there. So I feel okay with talking about it. It's obviously public her diary. But for all the people out there who were like, she was offed. It's like, no, she lived a lifetime of sexual abuse, starting at a very young age, by the way, a very, very young age, even before she met Epstein. And it's just that so few people really get so, they get so obsessed with the wealth porn of it all, the rich and powerful men that they sort of forget the grooming part of it, the fact that they chose these very poor, disadvantaged girls on the wrong side of the intercoastal in Palm Beach, right? And a lot of them had been sexually abused themselves.

A lot of them, their parents knew that they were going to see Jeffrey Epstein, but that $200 for the massage actually helped the family. You know, and it's like they're, and then after being abused by Epstein, they often moved on to lives where Courtney Wilde went to prison. She had drug problems. You know, they'd suffer with mental health. They end up in abusive relationships. And a lot of them are suffering like with mental health issues. And it's not surprising that she would kill herself. The idea that she had to be offed.

I mean, she. No, it was clearly a tragic life. Yeah, it's a tragic life. It's just, it's like, I think that the victims are lost in all of this and how they suffer after what they've already lived through. Where did, where did you conclude that Jeffrey Epstein's money came from? Okay, well, I definitely think it started with Last Wexner. You know, he's the founder of Victoria's Secrets and they had this weird friendship that

some thought was borderline sexually or so close. He introduced him to his wife, Abigail. I never heard that Les Wexner was necessarily a party guy, like some of Epstein's other friends. But, I mean, he sold him his townhouse at such a discounted rate in the Upper East Side. It's one of the biggest townhouses in New York City. The famous townhouse where you see Prince Andrew coming out of it, being snapped by paparazzi. Exactly. Keeping around the door to see if there were any paparazzi and they were hidden.

Exactly. And it just, the relationship was very strange. I think he opened up the world, the world of an eight. math teacher at Dalton, who, by the way, who got in trouble for trying to pick up students, okay? How do you go from being a math teacher to this wealthy financier hanging out with people who work at Apollo and getting Bill Gates and all of the richest people in the world to spend time with you? I think Les Wexner was the conduit who at least got him into the door. And there's a lot of reporting on this, too, about how they spent a lot of time together. And he showed Epstein the High Life.

Now, some have suggested that they were lovers and that West Les did not want that out there. And that is part of the reason why he would even do this, that he would even open Jeffrey up to that world. But Jeffrey became intoxicated by it. And I think that Jeffrey liked to trade on people's secrets. He also liked to brag a lot. And I think you probably heard that in the Michael Wolf tapes as well. Jeffrey liked to be like, Trump's my boy. Nothing's going to happen to me.

Bill bars. my boy, nothing's going to happen to me. You know, he was like, he liked to brag about his connections. He kind of knew he was, he knew he was a fraud, and he needed those connections. And he needed Galane Maxwell for the Polish and for the entree into high society. And so that he wasn't just some weird kind of slimy guy. But he still died with, I think, 600 million in assets. So I'm still very curious as to where he got the money from.

Well, people would invest. him. He would take their money and he would... But didn't he have to give the money back at some point? I mean, usually investors expect to return. I mean... Anyway, it's... If you have some compromise on people, they might not be quick to ask for the money back.

Right, I guess. Anyway, it's a fascinating story. He would say that my returns are better. He would, you know, he would make his pitch. But if you've been partying with someone over a weekend, are they really going to be hounding you? It's like... I don't know.

Who knows? It's all fascinating. And that's why it's hard to do this story. I mean, I have obviously spoken to the survivors. I've seen their lists of the men that they've been trafficked out to. And they are just really, really heavy hitters. And that's why I also think the problem... Why hasn't the list come out yet?

Why hasn't Gillen spoken? Why did Gillen accept a 20-year sentence instead of just helping... I think she is helping them. I think she's probably helping them right now. Oh, you do? Yeah, I do. And there is no list, by the way. That's just not a thing.

Like, there's, Jeffrey wasn't hoarding some, like, little piece of paper that had all of his clients on it. But who are the heavy hitters that were supposed to believe were doing this? I mean, if I said it on the show, I would probably get killed on the way out of here. Not killed, but it would make my life very difficult. What I've heard. But I don't. And I, and I, but how much more difficult can Gillen Maxwell's life be? She's got 20 years in jail.

Why wouldn't she just say these are the people? I don't think she's going to spend all 20 years in jail, do you? I have no idea. I have no idea. I don't think so. I have heard. Meaning what, that you think Trump will pardon her? No, I think she gives them more information.

They cut her sentence to a shorter sentence. They can't let her out right now. There would be public outrage. But nobody's paying attention. Stories gone away a few years. Scalane's out or gets, you know, ends up in some nice prison. This is what I've been told by law enforcement source that they are working on cases against the Johns,

releasing this footage or this, you know, this. It's a lot of it I've been told from survivors who have been brought into the FBI to see if, like, is that your body under this John? And they, I mean, one of them told me that she said, no, that's not my breasts or that's not my body, that's not me. you know, they have pictures. They have...

So is it true that Jeffrey Epstein was taking, compromising pictures of all the people that went to his house? I mean, his house, when they first rated it for the 2006 case, they found a lot of cameras everywhere. Plus, he had pictures of the girls all over his house. There was definitely a sort of photography. There was definitely photography at the very least. Naked pictures or like, like,

arty pictures? Well, the pictures that I was told from the survivors that their lawyers brought them in to see to identify themselves under these men. I have to assume they were taken surreptitiously. Right. You know, and they, yeah, it's a,

I can't even imagine thinking about this, but yes, I've been told from law enforcement that if they release this evidence, it could also reopen Galane's case. So it's also... So what are all the videos? videos the Pam Bondi has that people keep saying she's about to release. Well, that's it.

Oh, these are the... Yeah. Are these the Epstein files that she was supposed to have given to all the influences? First of all, I don't think they could release these images. I mean, they involve minors. That's another thing. There's privacy concerns. Why can't they just black out the miners?

I guess they could, but then also there's, like, some of the miners might still know that it's them from the pictures or... They're not minors anymore, obviously. They're adults. there's also just the fact that some of this evidence, like I said, could reopen Galane Maxwell's case. And they're also trying to build cases against some of these Johns. So if you put up the evidence into the public domain, it could, you're hurting your own case. And imagine the people that you're up against, they are going to have the best defense attorneys in the world.

And prosecutors don't like to do a case unless they think they're going to win, right? So they, to prepare. Well, they've had a lot of time to work on it. He died in 2019. What are they doing? Is there a special task force? I just don't think they think they can win against these people. I really don't think they think they can win.

Because the people are supposedly so powerful that... Yeah, and I think that a lot of these men, too, were with women that were of age, by the way. Right. So then there's no crime? Yeah, exactly. And that's hard to... And victims have told me that, too. The girls were 18 or they were 19. Jeffrey really kept the young ones to himself. So that's another part of it. So you really have, there's a lot of, and you're not just going to put out a picture of a man over a woman, a public figure like that until you've got it nailed down.

It's, I think it would be. It doesn't feel like it must, it doesn't quite feel like it would be that hard to nail down if you've got the girls. Right. The girls all know each other. Yeah. Or a lot of them knew each other. Anyway, I wasn't expecting to go down this spiral. No, there's a lot.

There are a lot of questions. No, no, no, no. There are a lot of questions. and I literally spoke to senior law enforcement source last week about this, because I'm like, why is the vault basically all redacted? And there is no list. Like, that's the other big misconception. I know it's a political weapon that people use against each other, but there's no secret list. But there is more evidence than we've ever seen before.

I've looked through most of the evidence. A lot of it is just Virginia's case. Yeah, in case. And her, but it's very complicated when you deal with these sex crime cases as well. I'm not trying to give the FBI a pass or the prosecutors the pass at all. I do think they kind of hope this would die. It's going to be a tough one for them. And I'm sure the guys that they're up against will figure out ways to make it die.

You also have to factor in witness tampering and what they're doing to these girls to keep them silent. And to make this really difficult. This is, they have ways. I mean, they nearly ran Courtney Wilde off the road when she was trying to do her crime victims rights act case. And it's the only reason why Jeffrey Epstein was arrested again. It took her over a decade. It's scary. Wow. Tara, hold on a moment.

We just need to take a break for ads. We love our advertisers, but we also love this conversation with Tara Parmary. Tara, for those who haven't watched or listened to your Jeffrey Epstein podcast, You actually went around the country with Virginia Jufri talking to people who were involved with Epstein at the same time as she was, correct? Yes. Virginia was definitely there at the height of the sex trafficking operation. And Virginia and I, we went all over the country. And I went with another survivor as well, Marika Chartunay. And we just rang doorbells, the pilot who still hasn't released his flight logs,

because there's one pilot who still hasn't released his flight logs. the houseman, Juan Alessi, we spoke to him, and he ended up being used as a witness in the case against Glenn Maxwell. We tried to talk to other friends of Jeffrey Epstein. We went to the celebrity chef who Jeffrey Epstein was friends with in New Mexico. We went to his Adam Perry Lang. We went to his restaurant to try to talk to him. We went all over the place. We knocked on doors.

and we really did shoe leather reporting because a lot of the things that Virginia said people will just, she said it for 10 years really and everyone just... No one listened. No one listened. And so it was really important not just for the credibility of the show, but for Virginia that she could find people that would say, I remember you. I know you.

I remember that you're a person. I mean, it was really heartbreaking for her, especially with Prince Andrew, from him to be like, I never met this woman before. and I don't think people understand what that feels like for a victim for a survivor. It's like they feel like they never existed. Well, then there was the photo. There's a photo, exactly.

And so for her to find these people who were around that were present, for example, Juan remembered distinctly, he remembered seeing Prince Andrew in the house and preparing a massage room for him. He remembered bringing some of the girls driving them back and forth. and one of the girls that he used to bring, she ended up testifying against Glenn. He was a critical witness in the case. And we also found another woman who was grooming and procuring girls for Jeffrey Epstein. She was younger than Galen, but there were a lot of Galen's.

And I don't consider the minors to be Galens, by the way, the ones who are part of the pyramid scheme. I'm talking about kids at school. I'm talking about kids. I mean, I'm talking about adults. Right, yeah. Right, women in their 20s and 30s who were part. of the machinery that supplied the three women a day that Jeffrey Epstein apparently needed.

Exactly. And so we went and confronted one of these women. And it was really something. And it's just, it's a really, really hard story. I saw the emotional toll it took on Virginia up close. What was the title of the podcast, just in case people want to watch it? It's called Broken Jeffrey Epstein. That's right.

And we start with an episode called The Enablers. And those were the people that we talked to that worked for him and made sure that he, that the clocks were turning and that the things were happening. And it's hard. I mean, he really paid his staff well because they, you know, they saw a lot of really gross stuff. And it was really tough.

And then the friends, I mean, they were. the friends that saw it. I mean, they were enablers too in a way. Yeah, it's extraordinary. Well, this has given all the conspiracy theorists about Epstein, much to think about, do you think he was murdered or do you think he committed suicide? Okay, see, this is going to take away credibility from what I just said, but I believe that he was murdered, and so does Julie K. Brown, who I worked with on these podcasts. She was the executive producer. She's the Miami Herald journalist who helped reopen the case. But just tell me, on, who do you think murdered him? Okay. This is not based on my own reporting, by the way.

This is based on a CBS 60 Minutes report from Sharon Alfonso, who I think is a great reporter, by the way. By the way, there are a lot of really great reporters that work in mainstream news. So I'm not trying in any way to, like, discount them. And I get my news a lot of them from them, and I know that they're great reporters, too. So Sharon did a report about the prison, well, the jail where this jail in the... Manhattan Tumes. Yeah, exactly. Or the tombs.

Where they put Al Chapo. and all these other people. So it is suspicious. I mean, how can you not think it's suspicious? The guards are asleep. The video footage is gone. Jeffrey was not the type to kill himself. He thought he was powerful enough to get out of anything.

He even said to Courtney Wilde's lawyer, like, they're never going to arrest me again. Trump's my boy. You know, he never really believed it. I mean, even in his note, prison is no fun. Does that sound like someone who wants to kill themselves? This guy is an egomaniac. narcissist believes that he's almost God-like, right? I do think that there is a part of, like, pedophilia or at least this Uber wealth where the only

thing you can't get is children, right? You can buy everything else, but not children. And so he's a sick and twisted person. And also in prisons, pedophiles do the worst. They are the lowest of the low when it comes to criminals, right? Below even mass murderers, they don't do well. People kill them. And Sharon did a report on this cop from Long Island, who, who,

was in this prison. As a prisoner or as a... Yeah, he was jailed. Yeah. Right. I can't remember exactly for what. But I thought it was a really striking report because she brought up the idea and she interviewed his lawyer, by the way, and the cop, about the idea that he might have been paid

to kill Jeffrey Epstein by a high net worth individual. And that, you know, maybe we should go check out, go to take a trip to Long Island and see if there's a new car outside of his wife's house or like, you know, if they upgraded something or because that would be the way to do it, you know, an inside job, pay somebody. It's a lot of effort to make it look as if someone's killed themselves with a. Yeah, but a cop would know how to do it. I guess. I mean, think of how many crime scenes they go to, how many times they see suicides.

True. So that one I thought was the most plausible story. I don't think, you know, Hillary Clinton went in with the pickax and killed him, you know, or even Mossad or CIA, I think it was likely another prisoner who was paid to do it. It was the Long Island policeman and he did it for the money. Yeah, I think that sounds the most plausible. The idea that Epstein killed himself,

it just doesn't ring true to me. But this, again, I want to be transparent about my reporting. And that is just something. And even Julie says it to this day. And she's done a lot of reporting on this too. and she's just like, she just, she's the thing that he was killed too. That's fascinating. What do you think?

I don't know. I just don't know enough about it. And I always think that it's usually the most prosaic answer that is the right answer. Like, I can completely believe that two people fell asleep at night when they were supposed to be on guard. I think one of them was shopping on Amazon, weren't they? Well, it was historically a jail that was very poorly guarded. Right. It was really badly.

rated. The New York Post would constantly write about it. I know this because I worked at the New York Post. And this was what they, they obsessed with the jail and how it was so poor. Yeah, but I really haven't done a deep dive into the Epstein thing. But I know it's a source of much interest and intrigue. And I'm very intrigued by why he was such a compelling figure to people like Bill Gates who have access to many compelling figures. So it felt weird to me that he would want to hang out with. with Jeffrey Epstein, given what he knew about him. And clearly it mattered to Melinda Gates, his wife, who cited his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, as one of the triggers for their divorce. I think he was a party. I think you got to go to Jeffrey Epstein's house, and you knew there were going to be a bunch of hot chicks there.

Like, I hate to say it that way. But you knew that there were going to be young, beautiful women there, and they were going to be, and it felt different and not like going out with probably Melinda. and the normal crowd that Bill Gates would be invited to. I don't think Bill Gates was probably invited to a lot of those kinds of parties. And Jeffrey was weird. He was a guy in his 50s and 60s, and he's hanging out with all these young women.

And the other thing about you go to any club in New York, and it's always guys. Yes, but not at... She's hanging out with young women. Yeah, but the thing that Jeffrey had that those men don't have is that Jeffrey also had very... he had powerful women around him too who were validating him. Right, Gillen. Well, that was the power of Gillen, right? Galan, and there were a few other women.

Tell me a little bit about your Maxwell. Oh. Because I haven't watched that or I haven't listened to that. What was your conclusion? Because I had a lot of friends that worked for. Oh, I can only imagine. Yeah. One of the things he used to like to do was interview people for a job in the car on the way from London,

where he would meet them or pick them up to his house in Oxford. in Heddington Hall. And what he would do is, after the interview was over, he would drop them in the middle of the motorway. And they would then have to find their way back in the go, the interview was over. And then the driver would pull to the side and they would literally have to get out on the middle of the motorway.

He was a disgusting person. That was what I gathered from him. Bulley, horrible. Peeing in front of people, just such disregard. They used to pee off the roof of his building, I think, onto unsuspecting pedestrians below. Right. To be fair, I did this podcast in 2020, so it's been about five years.

And as much as I was interested in him in the oddity, he was a little perverted, too, to be honest, because he seemed like that to me. He was a strange character, and it is amazing what he came from, Estudel in Eastern Europe and then changes his name to Maxwell and then becomes this press baron, tries to create this empire really does. I mean, he wants to compete with the Murdox. He wants to buy the Daily News. He did own the Daily News very briefly.

It was really impressive. And it was sort of in the same way, Jeffrey Epstein was able to sort of go from being a guy from Coney Island, a math teacher, into this. Well, at the heart, they were common, right? They were. He spent half a billion pounds. I think it was 500 million pounds of the pension fund

on his lavish lifestyle, chopper. here, there and everywhere, his boat, the Lady Galen, having huge parties, unlimited expenses for lots of the people that worked for him. And he must have been completely panicked that he was running through the money. I always remember when one of his sons, Kevin, was married to a woman called Pandora, and some people came up the driveway and were banging on the door. And she leaned out of the window just after Robert Maxwell's death, after he'd, I assume, committed suicide by throwing himself off the boat. but you may have some more.

No, you're right. No, I don't actually make a conclusion about the conspiracy theory, but yes. Well, I just remember her leaning out of the window and saying, go away or I'll call the police. And they said, we are the police. And they'd basically come to arrest her husband, Kevin. Yeah. He was found not guilty, actually.

Yeah, yeah. It's really sad. We spoke to some of the people who lost their pensions, and it was really hard for them. I think he was a terror. he was a conman. You completely nailed it. And it's really weird that Glenn, who was his favorite child, although he bullied her too.

He was not great to her. Bullied all of them, I think. Yeah, he did. And he was very hard on her about her weight and her appearance. But he also thought she was the most beautiful of the children. So he showed her off. He treated her like he was his wife, bringing her to events. And, you know, there were some reports that he was the one who introduced her to Jeffrey.

and that that... Well, I think he did, right? It's, I don't, has it been confirmed? I'm not sure that it's been confirmed that he did, but, you know, she kind of fell, after Daddy died, she fell into Jeffrey and she was in love with him. She was always in love with him, very weird relationship, and he treated her terribly. I mean, think about that, having to be the groomer and bring young girls for this man who has an insatiable desire to be with children and to, you know, to.

every few hours, it was disgusting. And that was the life she chose of doting on him. And he was a character that really was in so many ways a psychological profile of her own father. Right. Well, and I think she was used to being around money, right? When her father died and left the family destitute, she was looking for someone else that could look after her. She did end up getting a townhouse, a $20 million downhouse. I'm not quite sure she couldn't get a job like the rest of us.

You know, it's tough when you've... It's tricky. Did you ever meet her? Did you know her? I met her once, and the thing that I found interesting about it was she was predatory to the men in the room. I met her at a friend's birthday party. But the other thing that she did, which I was subsequently told, was one of her habits was that she wore a wig. And she would move the wig slightly when she was talking to, which was extremely disconcerting. And so her hair would sort of move, and you'd be like, oh,

what was that? That's the only thing I remember about her. That sounds about right. And being compelling. She had a strong presence in the room. You couldn't not pay attention to her. Right. And she would make outlandish comments, right?

So that everyone would pay attention to her. Yeah, one of the games that she used to play was apparently when people were going and stay with her for the weekend. She would blindfold the men, make the women take their tops off, and then make the men feel their breasts and identify them to the women. Oh, gross. Yeah, weird game. I'm very glad I didn't go to a party like that. I would have had to sit that one out. There were so many women that spent time with them, like Eva Dubin. You know, the Dubin's are one of the wealthiest families. And that was the thing. I felt that the saddest part about the Epstein story was how society, this high society would look the other way, even after he was found guilty. Well, just because you're rich doesn't mean you have good judgment, right? I mean, we assume that because people are rich, they must have excellent taste and excellent judgment. And they've frequent.

couldn't have neither. I know, but if there was a pedophile in my neighborhood where I grew up, you know, no one would want them in the neighborhood. No one would have them over for dinner. He was arrested for trafficking a 13-year-old for prostitution, as if a 13-year-old could be trafficked for prostitution. There's no such thing as a 13-year-old prostitute. And when he returned to New York City, he sat down with some of the most powerful people in the world, and nothing, like nothing had happened. So that is the problem. If he came to where I grew up, where did you grow up? I grew up in New Jersey in a very middle class town. A lot of people were nurses, teachers, secretaries, a lot of firefighters, cops, trades people. And so, yeah, no, we don't, we wouldn't let that happen.

You know, that he just wouldn't be allowed around. And he, that, that would be seen as someone who was a threat to our people. I think this is your new. substack. I think you need to do a Jeffrey Epstein substack. I mean, this is, this is just as interesting as, as Trump and, and the enormity of what's going on in the White House. Yeah. I think so too. I just really, it's really depressing, honestly, because it's that part of it that gets me down. I think about, I just think, like, I knew that these girls were being preyed on because they were poor. Like, the girls that, he never went after the children of the wealthy. The wealthy of his clients. No, he never did that. No, no, no, no, no. He picked the girls

from the wrong side of the tracks, who literally some of them, according to court documents, couldn't even afford the shoes they were wearing. And the sickest part about it is that sometimes their parents dropped them off. And they knew what was happening, but they needed the money that bad. And it was just really dark. And there was a pyramid scheme going on in the school. Nobody cared. It was just, and it just, it was like, it's really. The pyramid scheme being that the girls would introduce other girls. to Jeffrey Epstein. It was so known in the school

that there was a 50-something-year-old man in Palm Beach. She was paying $200 for a method. Yeah, some girls had braces. He liked braces and he liked them to look as young as possible. It's just dark. So I know that's probably not what you wanted to end on, but I think that to me is like the,

that's what I don't want people to forget about this story. And the Johns, yeah. So do you think the Pam Bondi will actually come after people? I mean, she keeps threatening to release the Epstein videos. I'm not quite sure what the videos are, but is there more information that Pam Bondi has? According to my sources,

they have this information and they are using it to build a case. Will they build a case? And I think, like I said earlier, that they have to build the strongest case possible because these Johns are the most powerful, people in the world who will hire the best lawyers in the world, the best defense attorneys. And you will have, yeah, some of the best prosecutors, but still up against the best defense attorneys.

And then there's the witness tampering. There's the privacy concerns. And again, they don't want to open up the Glane's case again because she's going to look at that as an opportunity. Their lawyers are waiting for them to do this so they can pounce and say, this is prejudicial information. We could use this in our case. We want to reopen her case up.

So I'm, again, I am not, I'm not saying that the FBI or the CIA isn't slow rolling this. This is tricky. And by the way, the names on those lists, the lists that I've seen from survivors, not the list. Right. They're from both sides of the aisle. It's amazing to me how many people have gone down over the Jeffrey Epstein. So you think Bill Gates got sideswiped by the guy at MIT got, you know, lost his job over it.

Prince Andrew has lost his Prince ship over it. Deservantly. It's incredible. Leon Black lost his CEO ship of the company he founded. Right. And then Barclays?

Lesh Taley at Barclays. Les Wexner was removed from the bore. Right. It's an astonishing list of people, actually. Right. But none of them have been prosecuted, which is concerning, like you said. That is the problem, is that no one's been prosecuted. stand up a case. I mean, even if it's a shitty case, just stand it up. Let the people know that you're trying. Well, and to your point, they may not have been underage. The girls may not have been underage. They may have looked young.

Exactly. They may not have been underage. And we also don't know about how many of these women have settled privately with some of these men. And they've decided because of that they don't want to cooperate. There's, you know, there's a lot of different factors. I hope they do something. There is a, there is a demand in the society right now. And I think, I think there's a real feeling, we need some justice. It took a long time from them to bring the case Skinskill in, and it was pretty easy. Well, I think if they do bring a case, you're going to be the first person to hear about it. And we're all going to have to pay attention to Tara Parmere Media because I know a lot about this stuff. Anyway, this was not the direction that I expected the conversation to go in. But I'm really intrigued that you think he was murdered and by a Long Island policeman. So it's all...

Well, I'm just, I'm basing that on the 60 Minutes report, and I do think that that is the most compelling thing that I have heard. Right, the most plausible. And just based on everything I've learned and heard about Jeffrey Epstein from the many people who have spent a lot of time with him, I do not believe he's a type of man to kill himself. Pambondi, if you're listening, it's down to you. Tara, enchanting to have you on the podcast.

Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for coming. Yeah, I think all the conspiracy theorists online about the Epstein case are going to, are going to, to somehow hear on the YouTube radar about this conversation and come flocking. Anyway, very interesting, very provocative, and we wish you incredible luck as you go. I know you're going away on holiday, and of course it won't be a holiday, because when you work for yourself, you end up working every day anyway.

But I hope you get five minutes to have a break. You are a machine of content, and we're very excited to see what you do next. Thank you so much for having me. It's a real honor, and I'm a fan of your show. show and I'm always amazed by how much the news you break. You really do move the news. Like, I mean, the White House Correspondents dinner would be not. Yeah, Amber Ruffman. I know. It's my fault that, well, it's our fault that Amber Ruffin ended up getting fired and the White House correspondent's dinner turned out to be rather

dreary and earnest. Did you end up going to it? I did go and I missed her badly. I think everybody missed her actually. I think the evening needed a comedian. If I were there, I would not have fired her. I would have kept her. I thought it was a strange moment that you would fire the comedian. I didn't think it was great either. Although her comments were pretty off the wall. But I also... She's a comedian. Men make comments like that all the time. Male comedians make comments like that all the time. And I felt they shouldn't have fired her. Yeah, there is a double standard. Isn't it weird? Well, that was not a conversation I was expecting to have. I certainly didn't know that Gillen Maxwell, was back helping the FBI and that there are likely more legal developments to come. Pam Bondi, it's all down to you. You can follow Tara Palmieri at her YouTube channel. You can just subscribe.

You can also subscribe to her on Substack. You can subscribe to the Daily Beast too for minute-by-minute updates on everything that's going on, and there's a lot of it right now. And you can leave us a comment on our YouTube channel. Thank you for joining us. And don't forget, as always, be Beast. This podcast was produced by Devin Rodgerino and Avon Erson,

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